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Xatalos' post on Jealous was pitiful. In reference to the highlighted part in 675, only thing that stood out to me was the fact that Jealous has done the 'here's a point but it might be wrong/ describing the wrong person entirely so I'll retract it if it is' and he's been wrong on the two occasions that I can recall so they could be attempts at making points against players that he doesn't have to stick himself down on. Mind you, there's a strong possibility that Jealous is just being a lazy fuck so probably not AI. I find it a weird theme in his posts and it's definitely something he should stop doing no matter what because it's him being inattentive at best, lol.
Who cares about the Stutters town-read? I'm just ignoring whatever Lunatic said there. In fact, I don't think anything that Lunatic said holds much weight save for his Daneler scum-read and vote iirc. Everything else is WIFOM and anyone who thinks that deserves any credit is basically saying "I'm so bad at reading the players that I have to rely on shortcuts to do it"
Re: ptmc's case on 685, I don't think Stutters' Lunatic vote tells us much. It's a safe vote for sure but he could have legitimately agreed that Lunatic was scummy and there's not a lot to divine either way from Stutters himself. He doesn't talk much about Lunatic in his filter so if Stutters is scum then it's the "ignoring partners" strategy which is plausible. Only part that I see to support the scum explanation over the town one is that both of them were around at similar times and Stutters didn't talk about him much.
And on the dude ptmc himself, he goes up a notch for that monster of a post relating to Lunatic. (695) Noting this for posterity.
Starting to have wandering eyes here, zzz.
I actually like Daneler's case on 691. I don't just mean "I agree with it" (although I do) but it shows some decent analysis compared to his early game play and raises some interesting points with regards to Stutters/ SEQ. I notice that Stutters doesn't tend to respond head-on to the points against him. It's clear that he's acknowledged them but doesn't explain himself. Examples include him never responding to my initial post and I don't see him responding to Daneler either. And sure, it could be because he's a man of few words but again, it's becoming a pattern with him so it's making me suspicious.
Oh I see he's promised to make a big post about this stuff so this might become invalid.
Rels is making sensible points with his response to Skynx and his DYH case to note two examples. I like him for town.
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Oh yeah, did SEQ even post after Day 1 ended?
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I read Calix filter, pretty sure he's town almost 100% of the time with the actualy game solving mentality throughout.
Scott and Super I'm ok with tr'ing based on the tone. Like the all natural and genuine tone is there for majority of their posts while I'm not getting the same for some people. Man who was it someone told me Scott never ever busses as scum anyone can relate?
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Oh wait, SEQ was the person who first voted on Lunatic. Never mind, probably assuming the worst due to him not being around.
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On September 27 2016 05:44 Skynx wrote:
I read Calix filter, pretty sure he's town almost 100% of the time with the actualy game solving mentality throughout.
Scott and Super I'm ok with tr'ing based on the tone. Like the all natural and genuine tone is there for majority of their posts while I'm not getting the same for some people. Man who was it someone told me Scott never ever busses as scum anyone can relate?
There's been a lot of editing in this post.
No?
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On September 27 2016 05:44 Skynx wrote:
I read Calix filter, pretty sure he's town almost 100% of the time with the actualy game solving mentality throughout.
Scott and Super I'm ok with tr'ing based on the tone. Like the all natural and genuine tone is there for majority of their posts while I'm not getting the same for some people. Man who was it someone told me Scott never ever busses as scum anyone can relate?
how is tone the best thing you have for reading scott? Superbia maybe because he wasn't around, but scott has done several weird things to get such a free pass from you.
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@Calix: I'm still on my phone as I still have not made it back home lol. So I guess you could call it lazy but I'll be dammed if I try to navigate multiple tabs on my phone and search who said what when it was the idea and not the person that I was affronted by. As you said, I covered the possibility that I made a mistake.
@Skynx: Are you really just going to play "he said, she said" and use it to justify a town read on Scott based on a meta read someone from outside the game had that states that he doesn't bus scum teammates?
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On September 27 2016 05:53 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 05:44 Skynx wrote:
I read Calix filter, pretty sure he's town almost 100% of the time with the actualy game solving mentality throughout.
Scott and Super I'm ok with tr'ing based on the tone. Like the all natural and genuine tone is there for majority of their posts while I'm not getting the same for some people. Man who was it someone told me Scott never ever busses as scum anyone can relate?
There's been a lot of editing in this post. No?
No?
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I'll re-read Scott now if u guys want but 7-8 pages from here he looked ok to me.
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On September 27 2016 06:06 Skynx wrote:
I'll re-read Scott now if u guys want but 7-8 pages from here he looked ok to me.
Do you have any new reads that you want to bring to the table? What's the point in spending your (limited) time on people that you think have town-tone?
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On September 27 2016 05:59 Jealous wrote:
@Calix: I'm still on my phone as I still have not made it back home lol. So I guess you could call it lazy but I'll be dammed if I try to navigate multiple tabs on my phone and search who said what when it was the idea and not the person that I was affronted by. As you said, I covered the possibility that I made a mistake.
@Skynx: Are you really just going to play "he said, she said" and use it to justify a town read on Scott based on a meta read someone from outside the game had that states that he doesn't bus scum teammates?
Lmao like meta barely matters here its just that little thing popped into my mind even if it was solid its still not a full justifiable reason, altho it does add some points in my book. Now i think about it, it was Koshi so just ignore the meta bit.
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On September 27 2016 06:08 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 06:06 Skynx wrote:
I'll re-read Scott now if u guys want but 7-8 pages from here he looked ok to me. Do you have any new reads that you want to bring to the table? What's the point in spending your (limited) time on people that you think have town-tone?
people like ptmc, Xata, Stutters, Jealous are all kinda in the middle with some reasons available justifying both alignments. They need proper analysis as their tone, meta, mind meld or all that kind of easy read stuff doesn't apply to them cuz they are inconsistent.
So you kinda solve the easy questions first then move on to hard ones.
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On September 27 2016 06:11 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 06:08 Calix wrote:On September 27 2016 06:06 Skynx wrote:
I'll re-read Scott now if u guys want but 7-8 pages from here he looked ok to me. Do you have any new reads that you want to bring to the table? What's the point in spending your (limited) time on people that you think have town-tone? people like ptmc, Xata, Stutters, Jealous are all kinda in the middle with some reasons available justifying both alignments. They need proper analysis as their tone, meta, mind meld or all that kind of easy read stuff doesn't apply to them cuz they are inconsistent. So you kinda solve the easy questions first then move on to hard ones.
That's swell as a strategy and all, so let us know when you get started on the 'difficult' analysis. Easy stuff is scrub-tier.
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I guess I'll make a list so its easier for you guys cuz I've been absent a long time.
Highly probable town: Rels, Calix
Likely town: Super, Scott, SEQ
Null/Very Swingy: ptmc, Xata, Stutters, Jealous
Likely scum: DH, DYH
100% Lynch tomorrow scum: -
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SEQ is mostly town cuz the way he pushed Lunatic initially i think its impossible that a mafia does this.
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On September 27 2016 06:15 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 06:11 Skynx wrote:On September 27 2016 06:08 Calix wrote:On September 27 2016 06:06 Skynx wrote:
I'll re-read Scott now if u guys want but 7-8 pages from here he looked ok to me. Do you have any new reads that you want to bring to the table? What's the point in spending your (limited) time on people that you think have town-tone? people like ptmc, Xata, Stutters, Jealous are all kinda in the middle with some reasons available justifying both alignments. They need proper analysis as their tone, meta, mind meld or all that kind of easy read stuff doesn't apply to them cuz they are inconsistent. So you kinda solve the easy questions first then move on to hard ones. That's swell as a strategy and all, so let us know when you get started on the 'difficult' analysis. Easy stuff is scrub-tier.
I'm working on it bro, busy days organising stuff :/
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Well I highly doubt I'll die tonight but there are my reads
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If you think that mafia would find it impossible to push Lunatic like SEQ did (will check in a moment) then what stops him from being in your god-tier town bracket?
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Got the quotes. What makes you think this sequence of posts are impossible for scum to replicate? I see some questions and "X thing is scummy" which is standard for pushing someone and prodding for more information.
(third quote is directed at Daneler btw)
On September 25 2016 11:56 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Thanks for the read though not sure how you arrived on that conclusion on the obvious townie part of Stutters, would like some elaboration please. but the rest of the post feels like it is filled with filler. Don't get the point of it.
On September 25 2016 12:03 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^ Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him. On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once. I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. Stutters:Calix:
You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test? My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?  Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. *shakes my head* are you really going to settle on a town read based on meta???
On September 25 2016 12:25 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 01:37 DanelerH wrote:On September 25 2016 01:18 Xatalos wrote:On September 25 2016 00:46 DanelerH wrote:On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote:I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it: On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts: On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. [quote] Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: [quote] Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. [quote] Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. [quote] What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people? Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
[quote]
Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
[quote]
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ? No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet. There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer. The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle. Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels. I'm still not seeing an answer as to why you think Stutters is Town. Dodging my question is not making me any less suspicious of you. You realize what you're asking for...? I highly doubt Lunaticman actually believes Stutters is a TPR. It sounds a lot more like Lunaticman is just trying to fake a reason not to give a reason for the Town-read. Sweetheart, I understand your suspicion on Lunatic, but I am worried about your confirmation bias leading you astray here.
On September 25 2016 12:30 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 01:51 Lunaticman wrote:
Im going to concert so the TLDR, is tone/meta/activity. Stutters has shown more intrest and activity in the first day than recent games combined.
Of course he has a power role, and from context I dont think he is mafia.
I am kind of suprised by how this escelated from a simple townread. It feels like someone doesnt want to build a town circle and jerk peoples chain instead. & what is wrong with jerking people's chain approach exactly???
On September 25 2016 12:41 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 07:50 Lunaticman wrote:
You clearly didnt read the whole thing ptmc because I got pressured into saying Stutters was a blue read by rels and Da.
They called me scum for it and I saw no positive outcome in hiding the information since he could br killed by being a townread player anyway. No matter how you spin it you can make anyone look scummy.
Im going to sleep now and Im putting my vote on Da so I dont miss it. Confused here. How does one get pressured into a blue read? Your read is your read, f*ck everyone else's opinion unless you are unsure. ^_^ (though I may have interpreted this part, oopsie if I did) also note: just because you do scummy things, you shouldn't change your actions/thoughts for other people, playing to someone else's ways is going to make you look a hellava scummier player by being unsure of your playstyle.
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On September 27 2016 06:19 Calix wrote:
If you think that mafia would find it impossible to push Lunatic like SEQ did (will check in a moment) then what stops him from being in your god-tier town bracket?
On September 25 2016 11:56 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Thanks for the read though not sure how you arrived on that conclusion on the obvious townie part of Stutters, would like some elaboration please. but the rest of the post feels like it is filled with filler. Don't get the point of it.
This is the first post him pushing Lunatic, like only few hours into game.
On September 25 2016 12:30 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 01:51 Lunaticman wrote:
Im going to concert so the TLDR, is tone/meta/activity. Stutters has shown more intrest and activity in the first day than recent games combined.
Of course he has a power role, and from context I dont think he is mafia.
I am kind of suprised by how this escelated from a simple townread. It feels like someone doesnt want to build a town circle and jerk peoples chain instead. & what is wrong with jerking people's chain approach exactly???
On September 25 2016 12:41 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 07:50 Lunaticman wrote:
You clearly didnt read the whole thing ptmc because I got pressured into saying Stutters was a blue read by rels and Da.
They called me scum for it and I saw no positive outcome in hiding the information since he could br killed by being a townread player anyway. No matter how you spin it you can make anyone look scummy.
Im going to sleep now and Im putting my vote on Da so I dont miss it. Confused here. How does one get pressured into a blue read? Your read is your read, f*ck everyone else's opinion unless you are unsure. ^_^ (though I may have interpreted this part, oopsie if I did) also note: just because you do scummy things, you shouldn't change your actions/thoughts for other people, playing to someone else's ways is going to make you look a hellava scummier player by being unsure of your playstyle.
He continues on like this until Lunatic does the blue read and all that jazz. He literally forces a mistake from mafia by sheer pressure.
You're right he should be top tier actually but i dunno some stuff in my mind prevented that. I'm actually so fkin tired.
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EPT
