Rules/Ban List And The Community - Page 2

On June 26 2016 08:59 Damdred wrote:
And honestly I just want all the rules to line up between hosts and the community to work it out so that there aren't many grey areas left rather than pages of debate about player x here and player y there.

On June 27 2016 01:53 Vivax wrote:
It's simple, we turn the entire place into a casino.

Future games will have a buy-in and a prize pool. Everyone will play to the best of his abilities.

On June 26 2016 09:08 justanothertownie wrote:

I don't see how this would improve anything at all and why anyone would honestly want that. Less diversity in our games probably won't make TL mafia more attractive. And the things you are talking about (especially behaviour) are very very subjective and case specific so you can't just "line up" everything.

If you want strict rules join a game with strict rules/convince a host to implement strict rules. Don't force your preference on everyone.

On June 26 2016 03:42 Half the Sky wrote:
Thank you so much Damdred, I 1000% agree with what you're doing. I've been told time and again I have been a strict host and I know modding alongside Greymist I found his style of hosting (IMO I thought he was stricter than I was) VERY refreshing.

To me, playing TL mafia should be this: Play the game, play to win as the alignment assigned and don't make people's lives miserable doing so, end of.

So to keep on point with what Damdred said

(1) Non voting. I personally have no preference and I have tinkered with both warning and then modkill and then immediate modkill.

If we want to stay consistent as all hosts on this matter, I would propose adopting warning for first offence and modkill for second. The reason being that in newbies, newbies may not know any better. I know that might sound shite, and yes said newbie might have a coach but....eh. Between that and EoDs that might be problematic for North American players, the standard TL deadline is roughly evening rush hour for them - I would agree with Damdred to standardise that rule to not modkill on the first go.

For themed games where voting occurs at night for whatever reason, I think there needs to be separate explanations by the host and penalities need to be explicitly stated, but absolutely no modkills for any issues at night because players just aren't used to doing voting at night.

Also this should be obvious but aimed at the newer hosts just in case - if there is a situation in themed games where premature no lynches end the day early, you obviously don't touch the people who haven't voted. Obvious I would hope for most, but there it is.

(2) Behaviour. This is where I've gotten some of pushback from certain people I won't name - some who have hosted and others who have been around mostly/exclusively as players - and I remember having a long conversation with Greymist about the pushback against the stricter hosts when we were setting up PYP Intriguing and at that time he strongly disagreed with players' behaviour...the way he ran PYP a few months ago I thought was solid and he addressed the BM/controversial actions in that game in a way that was constructive for everyone involved. Additionally, the decision to remove a certain player in pre-game who was disruptive in another game (and was modkilled) also was a positive thing he did.

I bring him up because (1) he's experienced and knows his stuff (2) he's respected around here AFAIK and (3) he appears to me one of the stricter hosts compared to the vast majority I've seen on this site.

Obviously across the board there's been an issue with consistency, myself included - swear words that can get you warned/modkilled by one host doesn't get you touched by someone else.

Here's the way I see it. Insults meant to hurt people, threaten them (topics such as suicide, mental health issues), excessive swearing where insults are directed at people (i.e. you are a fucking motherfucker), expressing in any way you don't want to play with a certain player are examples of things that I think need to be stopped dead in its tracks.

Using swears to describe an argument (i.e. that is such a bullshit argument, your case is shit, etc) are okay. because you can always attack arguments but not people.

Racism/homophobia/sexism should always be a modkill. Yes I am saying this because I have dealt with people who disagree with this. I forget who it was but I caught someone in one game using "faggot" to describe how someone was playing - it wasn't a direct attack, but it was still unacceptable when there's a million other ways you can push someone. Thankfully the host in question modkilled him.

I know there are also certain people around here who don't care for the PC end of things either - well one way or another we have to get around it for the betterment of the community here, I realise different cultures/backgrounds treat things different. If the majority don't care for it around here, then do what's best for the majority. That's how I see it and from my understanding, if the majority prefer to be PC, then let it roll that way.

I know geript also did something like pre-warning people when he ran games and that I liked, you could just tap someone on the shoulder so they knew where the line was. Again super subjective but it was a way for people to keep themselves in check.

The other issue I can potentially see as people treat differently - some hosts prefer public warnings and others private. The argument for private is that it reduces WIFOM in some cases but the problem is that if other players see or think behaviour is going unpunished, then it STILL affects their thinking or gives them the impression they can push it behaviourwise too. IDK. People complain about host interference but there's a downside to that, last few games I've been fortunate enough to not have serious behaviour issues in my games, but recently I look at insults in question and decide on a case by case basis what to do so as to reduce the impact an action has on players.

I'll probably post more, but off the top of my head, that's kinda more or less how I feel.

(edited for readability)

On June 27 2016 23:31 Half the Sky wrote:
I thought about the voting aspect a bit more.

Any way possible that we allow a warning and then modkill for newbies and then immediate modkill for no-voting for non-newbies? And then standardise that across all games with mods remembering to be more lenient on this for newbies (especially when the mistake is made by newbies)?

Thoughts?

On June 25 2016 23:10 Damdred wrote:
Hi,

Just so we do not clutter up the ban list thread and devolve into a bickering mess. I decided to start up a new thread where we could discuss and hopefully implement something that could make the hosting process easier in that we eliminate a lot of gray areas between hosts and maybe the ban list actions in themselves.

Here are some topics i would like to consider

1) Different rules about non voting, this is one of the pet peeves of mine that I want all mods to homogenize on. Rayn says this is the most important part of mafia is voting. I would agree but there are to often times where there is grey area because of how active some people are caught away at lynch time etc.

And mod killing for this probably eliminates some of the strategy scum and some town can use to draw out scum or try to hold there motivation. So I personally would like to see it eliminated from modkill territory and the ban list actions personally. We can punish people in game just as easily as in the ban list for non votes, especially when we see motivation in there actions. So whats the point of it besides to try to moderate how people play to an invisible standard we set ourselves?

2) Our asshole meta probably needs to stop. We sort of need to bring all hosts action in line when it comes to behavior. There is to often now where people can confirm themselves town because of the emotional pull they can bring. Especially when they toe the line so heavily or even go across it to proove they are town.

Basically we are almost to the point in some games where people are almost modkilling themselves to confirm themselves and its bullcrap.

We need to crack down on such behaviors even more no warnings, it doesn't matter how emotional mafia is we can still treat each other with respect even if we disagree with arguments. Other sites do it and we can as well.

Thats probably my biggest two things. But I do think we need to change several things to become a viable community again instead of dropping people like we currently are.

Well get to discussing

On June 27 2016 23:38 justanothertownie wrote:

I am all for standardising it. But I am against the immediate modkill because it will ruin a lot of games needlessly. Warn once, modkill afterwards across the board. You can punish the first offense by giving a warning/ban post game.
Which is btw. exactly what was consensus when we discussed this topic the last time.

On June 28 2016 00:38 Palmar wrote:
This is Palmar.

Palmar thinks complex, wordy rules and regulations are generally boring and useless. But Palmar also understands that people not voting is a problem.

Palmar likes to solve problems using tools instead of rules. So in his next game, Palmar will make non-voters trigger a snap-lynch during the following night. If the majority of players in the game vote in a non-mandatory vote to snap-lynch the non-voter, he flips at daybreak. If not, he lives. This way towns can punish and not have to deal with afk players, while active players who just forget to vote will avoid an unnecessary modkill.

Be like Palmar.

On June 28 2016 00:45 Rels wrote:

This might be the greatest idea ever to take care of non-voters.
Actually it is an awful idea. Trash town players can be mislynched for free in MYLO. Super unfair for mafia

On June 28 2016 00:49 Half the Sky wrote:


Not a bad idea, some drawbacks here are if you put a vig or additional kp as it stands, and then you have a situation like this, where people of either alignment can't be arsed to vote, also could be problematic either way going into mylo/lylo.

On June 28 2016 00:45 Rels wrote:

This might be the greatest idea ever to take care of non-voters.
Actually it is an awful idea. Trash town players can be mislynched for free in MYLO. Super unfair for mafia