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On February 26 2016 13:59 Trfel wrote:I mean, Palmar said that Breshke is mafia. If we don't lynch Breshke and he wins, Palmar gets to taunt us forever. Is that really what we want? Seriously though, Breshke's filter may "only" be six pages, but that takes a while to go through  I'll see how far I get. Anyway, I guess you don't like my non-association, independent reasons for Tictock being mafia?
nh, my problem with tictock is the scattered filter, and it's an overall sense of things rather than anything particular, though i could find examples if you wanted
like...i understood your case to be basically that you didn't feel he really pushed hard for the tumble lynch when he was townreading scott?
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On February 26 2016 14:04 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 13:59 Trfel wrote:I mean, Palmar said that Breshke is mafia. If we don't lynch Breshke and he wins, Palmar gets to taunt us forever. Is that really what we want? Seriously though, Breshke's filter may "only" be six pages, but that takes a while to go through I'll see how far I get. Anyway, I guess you don't like my non-association, independent reasons for Tictock being mafia? nh, my problem with tictock is the scattered filter, and it's an overall sense of things rather than anything particular, though i could find examples if you wanted like...i understood your case to be basically that you didn't feel he really pushed hard for the tumble lynch when he was townreading scott? I don't have a case, it's more of a conclusion reached from continued discussion.
The biggest reason I think he is mafia is because his involvement has fit mafia motivations. When all that's needed is activity, he's here and commenting, but not pushing. When he's needed to push things, he's pushing. When he's not, he's sidelines. All from a mafia perspective, not a town perspective.
Most things I've brought up are just small examples of this at different times.
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On February 26 2016 14:03 Trfel wrote:I mean, you know I've been commenting about Breshke's questions not being as meaningful or having as much direction as I would have expected, and no one's cared about it (ironically, no one but Breshke)? The only question is, is it important I kinda think that the "how insightful are his questions" read on Breshke isn't very good after all. But I'm not sure what to use instead. How much does Breshke push things when he's town? How involved is he with the lynch?
lol >< well i think the fact that deadline is before any normal human being in australia in their right mind would be up might have some bearing on his lack of "presence"
though generally insightfulness is how i read bresh >> i can't say that i'm always right, though, given noir @.@ insightfulness is kinda subjective
like i feel in the beginning he was more like that, but even later during d1 that started falling off while he was still actively posting, and that's what made me reconsider
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On February 26 2016 14:06 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 14:04 rsoultin wrote:On February 26 2016 13:59 Trfel wrote:I mean, Palmar said that Breshke is mafia. If we don't lynch Breshke and he wins, Palmar gets to taunt us forever. Is that really what we want? Seriously though, Breshke's filter may "only" be six pages, but that takes a while to go through I'll see how far I get. Anyway, I guess you don't like my non-association, independent reasons for Tictock being mafia? nh, my problem with tictock is the scattered filter, and it's an overall sense of things rather than anything particular, though i could find examples if you wanted like...i understood your case to be basically that you didn't feel he really pushed hard for the tumble lynch when he was townreading scott? I don't have a case, it's more of a conclusion reached from continued discussion. The biggest reason I think he is mafia is because his involvement has fit mafia motivations. When all that's needed is activity, he's here and commenting, but not pushing. When he's needed to push things, he's pushing. When he's not, he's sidelines. All from a mafia perspective, not a town perspective. Most things I've brought up are just small examples of this at different times.
tch this gets into narrative territory :/ i'm assuming you at least tried to consider it from both sides when you went through his filter? you and i make reads very differently lol ><
for instance, i see you commenting on his pushing tumble during the scott lynch and how he didn't really push it and honestly i can see town sticking to his guns there but being demotivated when people basically haven't listened to him for a week? so i'm not really sure how strong that actually is
what's the scum motivation for townreading scott there and not really pushing tumble, assuming tumble is town as you say? why not just go with the flow?
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On February 26 2016 14:10 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 14:06 Trfel wrote:On February 26 2016 14:04 rsoultin wrote:On February 26 2016 13:59 Trfel wrote:I mean, Palmar said that Breshke is mafia. If we don't lynch Breshke and he wins, Palmar gets to taunt us forever. Is that really what we want? Seriously though, Breshke's filter may "only" be six pages, but that takes a while to go through I'll see how far I get. Anyway, I guess you don't like my non-association, independent reasons for Tictock being mafia? nh, my problem with tictock is the scattered filter, and it's an overall sense of things rather than anything particular, though i could find examples if you wanted like...i understood your case to be basically that you didn't feel he really pushed hard for the tumble lynch when he was townreading scott? I don't have a case, it's more of a conclusion reached from continued discussion. The biggest reason I think he is mafia is because his involvement has fit mafia motivations. When all that's needed is activity, he's here and commenting, but not pushing. When he's needed to push things, he's pushing. When he's not, he's sidelines. All from a mafia perspective, not a town perspective. Most things I've brought up are just small examples of this at different times. tch this gets into narrative territory :/ i'm assuming you at least tried to consider it from both sides when you went through his filter? you and i make reads very differently lol >< for instance, i see you commenting on his pushing tumble during the scott lynch and how he didn't really push it and honestly i can see town sticking to his guns there but being demotivated when people basically haven't listened to him for a week? so i'm not really sure how strong that actually is what's the scum motivation for townreading scott there and not really pushing tumble, assuming tumble is town as you say? why not just go with the flow? He largely did go with the flow, though?
Scum obviously can't be okay with every lynch. Ideally, the ones that scum isn't okay with are the ones that would die off anyway, or the ones that go through even without their support. The scott lynch was a perfect way for mafia to potentially get a mislynch while not lynching lynchbait.
Townreading scott obviously doesn't make Tictock mafia, but it didn't even seem like Tictock cared. In Outlaw, when he was getting lynched, he was mad. Not really driven, but quite annoyed. Here, when scott was being lynched, Tictock felt sad and withdrawn? Like I get that it's not the same situation, but compared to his earlier fire to lynch Tumblewood? It's possible to come from town, but stretching it.
Plus, it doesn't matter so much about if it's possible to come from town if it's fitting mafia motivation? Tictock makes sense as mafia, so he's mafia. Town generally doesn't fit mafia motivation so nicely.
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Oh yeah, I meant to ask you about Breshke. When he's town, does he say "I could be willing to lynch this guy because he's bad/useless/unreadable/whatever"? I remember him saying this as mafia, but I don't feel like Breshke as town is the kind of player to do this?
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On February 26 2016 14:18 Trfel wrote:
Oh yeah, I meant to ask you about Breshke. When he's town, does he say "I could be willing to lynch this guy because he's bad/useless/unreadable/whatever"? I remember him saying this as mafia, but I don't feel like Breshke as town is the kind of player to do this?
i don't know? lol >< i don't remember him doing it, but i can honestly say that it's the sort of thing that i wouldn't remember anyway
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@Breshke:
"I agree with the essence of this post that the way EoD went down makes me feel that scott is probably town but thats also because I have a hankering that SL is scum but won't be discussing that until tomorrow"
Night 1
Why did sicklucker being scum make you think that scott was town?
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the breshke i remember generally tries to look at everything from all angles...that's not to say that he wouldn't have that sort of attitude toward someone who never made sense, though
as for the tt thing, the way he's handling today i've already pointed out is exactly what a scum tt has to do here lol >< right down to the opening the door on breshke bit
i just don't really see your particular point...i'm assuming it's more an overall thing that i'm missing, though, cause the specific example alone is pretty meh
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Breshke
starting at just before midnight, for the record
+ Show Spoiler +I'll keep note of all of the meaningful things that Breshke does. First, he asked a question to Tictock about why he found sicklucker's opening interesting, which feels very weak, and then he didn't follow up. The response of "ehh okay" feels like he was reluctant to let Tictock slide, but did so anyway? And at this time I don't see anything wrong with Tictock's response, but anyway, the "ehh okay" response feels tonally improper to me. Still though, this is right at the start of the game. The follow-up just doesn't feel like it's there. But his response to Palmar's initial scumread feels towny. I would expect scum to be more careful there. Breshke said he didn't have strong scum feelings but would be willing to lynch sicklucker because he won't be able to read him. This doesn't feel like a good sentiment, and this is very similar to Breshke's play as mafia in his last scum game. I don't see mafia motivation behind Breshke's play towards later Day 1. He felt involved on an End of Day where it was town vs town, and once it was clear that GlowingBear wouldn't be lynched this isn't necessary for mafia. If Breshke is mafia, this play is really impressive. After this, Breshke's activity dropped off significantly. He opened Day 2 by voting for Tumblewood, then when I shared reasons to townread Tumblewood, Breshke expressed doubt over his read but didn't follow up with this very much. I.... really don't understand Breshke's reaction to The Shining's counterclaim vigilante at all. That's just weird. I want to scumread Breshke for it, but it feels so weird that I'm not sure if this is appropriate? Would GlowingBear have discussed the claim plan in the QT or not? If so, this makes Breshke town; if not, this makes Breshke more likely scum. Bleh. But if Breshke didn't discuss it with GlowingBear, would he really take a guess at GlowingBear being the vigilante? This makes no sense to me....... I don't even know. The way that Breshke votes for scott31337 feels very suspicious to me. Breshke said that scott is more likely town due to the voting, then reversed this and voted for Tumblewood, and then voted for scott anyway? It's just that he seemingly voted for scott for the exact same thing he felt was towny earlier? Like, what about the Day 1 voting looked bad for scott? Is this an association read with Tumblewood, his other scumread, being mafia? Then why not vote for Tumblewood? Feels like he's taking the easier path instead of the read progression that actually makes sense. It's also weird because Breshke was being suspicious of scott before leaving, then comes back and posts this: On February 19 2016 22:04 Breshke wrote:
wouldn't you say well played to SL even if he was vig'd?
##Vote:Scott
I assume if he is town he is busy or some shit and ive been saying i felt how the lynch went down made him seem town but im just really underwhelmed right now
Also rsoul is giving me the heebie jeebies but i cant put my finger on why Where he discounts all of the reasons he gave to suspect scott, yet votes for him anyway. Huh? And at this time, it was looking like scott was the counterwagon to GlowingBear (they were about equal), not Tumblewood vs GB. So, why did Breshke vote for scott instead of Tumblewood? hm.... On February 21 2016 01:37 Breshke wrote:
Lynch Scott he doesn't care But this feels off. Wouldn't expect mafia to behave like this when their partner is being lynched. The lack of presence is a bit surprising.
That's all I have. I feel like I'm not understanding some key things that make this make more sense.
Thoughts?
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pues, i actually felt his EoD 1 was more underwhelming than the rest of the day? so we're not in agreement there, though the scott thing is a little...
lol >< you know why i have trouble with this game? in tropical i dropped my vote on town when we were lynching scum and didn't really push it precisely because i knew what it would look like when whatsisface flipped scum, and stupid lex went in there and got the shenannies rolling on him ruining my dastardly plans ><
but at the same time i really don't know if breshke is capable of the same. like, when i play mafia i don't really care that much what i look like cause i know i have a fair chance of talking myself out of lynches and playing against wincon often gets people wifoming you town :/
so you ask me and i go "well, i..." then "well, bresh isn't me..."
i think i'd prefer to not go into the wifom of would he or wouldn't he and instead just focus on what he actually did/didn't do, personally
and i'm rambling now cause it's late and they just ushered us all out to stand in the cold cause some idiot tried to smoke in here again ^^
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yeah that didn't make much sense :/
what i'm trying to say is i'd rather focus on why players did what they did rather than would they or wouldn't they as scum, because not only do we not have the whole picture, but both alignments are usually capable of anything in a vacuum
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lol >< bedtime
i've got a meeting tomorrow so i'll be gone until maybe...90 mins? 2 hours if i'm lucky? before EoD
i think i'm gonna drop my vote on no-lynch actually just in case so y'all aren't forced to lynch if that's what y'all want to do. i can't imagine i'll miss deadline lol >< but yeah
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also, ftr, i don't really have a preference on bresh or tt and will vote either if i don't have the time to read the thread before the lynch
the tinfoil's great and all and i'll indulge it if i have the time :/ but really this probably is just as simple as it seems
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I feel like I really don't get Breshke's vote on scott31337 instead of Tumblewood on Day 2. That's the big thing.
The town reasoning isn't something I see, the mafia motivation is rather obvious.
So yeah, I don't have much to add right now other than I'm distracted and darn tired, but it'll be easier to wait until Breshke answers about this, anyway.
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I wouldn't lynch Breshke without at least seeing a few posts from him.
I would lynch Tumble, but nobody agrees with me.
Rsoul could be mafia, but made the best post of the day.
On February 26 2016 15:11 rsoultin wrote:
yeah that didn't make much sense :/
what i'm trying to say is i'd rather focus on why players did what they did rather than would they or wouldn't they as scum, because not only do we not have the whole picture, but both alignments are usually capable of anything in a vacuum
Kush & Trfel pretty town.
I'm going to sleep.
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On February 26 2016 13:54 Trfel wrote:
Okay, so my paranoia check on Tumblewood showed that Tumblewood's scumread on Breshke is primarily based on Breshke's lack of activity lately. Which is something that has been discussed in the time of Tumblewood's read change.
It makes sense, even if it doesn't feel quite right to me? Meh. Not going to worry about it for now.
It's not that, it's his lack of investment. I still think it's scummy, but I don't think it's enough to justify voting him in MyLo because town also often seems uninvested.
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Of course, if and after we vote TT (the one I'm currently more concerned about) we will have to lynch a second scum, and Breshke will be the best option there... ugh this game is hard
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Oh! And since I'm at a computer now, here is the thing I was going to say:
I got totally sidetracked, so this will be a completely different thing. Rsoul is town because she would not be "okay with either bresh or tt" as scum unless one of Trfel or kush is also scum and that is very unlikely. Trfel cannot be scum with anyone but TT because he is moving on to Breshke and noonie for asking for a no-lynch in MyLo with town agreeing on TT. Basically, the number of scumteams I can see without TT is 0. I also feel that TT's reaction is in line with how scum would act in this situation, because (assuming he's with Breshke) the easiest way to not die is to throw suspicion to me or Breshke. A TT-Breshke scumteam lines up because he's avoiding voting Breshke (because if Breshke's scum we're probably moving on to TT the next day) and pushing me, the easiest mislynch.
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EPT
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