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On January 17 2016 06:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
I though I agreed with points he made last game. Maybe I'm misremembering. I though all he's done this game was vote for HF and male throwaway posts. I'll check me fax and get back with you.
On January 17 2016 06:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ya okay he can live I guess. My vote is still on Trfel in spirit.
Except that's the thing. That's really all that Palmar has done - posts 150/212.
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ASM's post, last 5-6 of his filter come off to me as a townie that just isn't confident.
Read specifically posts 254, 275, 286 and 290. I can see easily where he's grappling between Trfel and Holyflare despite him saying that Trfel's initial posts make him sceptical of what he's posted since, and the case on HF appears partially to be based on a pre-associative flip, which he seems aware of. In any case, he's showing he's thinking it through and making the best possible judgement with what he has in front of him.
DYH and Cephiro atm are coinflips, obvious, but there it is...
Right now, I'll take a re-look at Trfel and rayn interactions, etc and see if I missed anything.
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On January 17 2016 06:35 Damdred wrote:
Here's the thing.
I don't think that's enough to town read Ritoky on. For example,he has several scum games where he pushes the responsibility on someone else who is town. Down under I think he did this and he did it in a ongoing game which I can't talk about.
So I don't get your town read and your lack of suspicion about him after playing with two scum rut is a bit disconcerting especially when I want to tr you.
ritoky had a lot more material contentwise as mafia in the two games I've had with him and what made him mafia in both games I've had with him is not truing up here (if he should be mafia). I'm not saying he's inactive town, because the inactivity can come from either alignment. In any case, what I've mentioned is not a great heuristic, at best a very weak lean/gut call as I've mentioned before.
I'm still looking through other people and if I feel I have too many town reads then I have to go back to my weaker reads/null reads.
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Also, Damdred -
which down under? 2 or 3?
Also pushing the responsibility? You are referring to the sheeping of VE? That as simple as it is, as I said can come from either alignment though. And in "that other game we can't talk about" there was additional evidence that indicated a lot of the responsibility laid with him and what he said there didn't line up with what happened. That's where the abdication of responsibility was more mafia indicative.
I know what you are saying but I don't feel that between "that other game" and here it's entirely the same situation.
Like I see what you are saying and I get why it makes you sceptical but there is a town motivation side to that too, and I can't really discount that without more evidence or process of elimination over time.
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On January 17 2016 06:54 geript wrote:
Or someone like Ace. I don't think I've ever lynched Ace when I'm town.
When I scumread Ace, VE said Ace isn't a good day 1 lynch based on meta, no dispute on that yet. If you have a different viewpoint that isn't policy lynch, let's hear it.
Re ASM, why? same argument? I'm making sense of where he's grappling between HF/Trfel.
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EBWOP - no dispute from anyone else on that yet.
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On January 17 2016 07:04 geript wrote:
My arguments make sense. I'm maybe not explaining them well.
Let me take this a different direction then - because unless you further break down the ASM not making sense -> exclusively mafia (through what? distortion of the facts??? playing it safe?)
I'm looking at your post 191 and you are (apparently?) scumreading ASM for not commenting on someone? At best that's pre-associative if I am understanding you right.
You said you didn't want to lynch VE off a single quote and it was based on Palmar. So, what are your thoughts on Palmar and his approach to HF/Trfel?
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On January 17 2016 06:55 Damdred wrote:
I think it's 2 it was a postvrestriction game I was in.
Town Ritoky generally takes responsibility and pushes what he thinks. I don't even really know of there is much reason exactly for rot to town 've here besides just someone to,sheep for sheep sake
Besides that there were other things in the other game as well I agree. Like I agree town motivated side is town looks for someone to sheep they trust and does so. But there's also rayn and his soul read buddy me in here, so do you think 've deserved that type of sleeping at this poibt?
Okay, so this is basically a meta-related argument you are making against ritoky. I wasn't aware of the relationship/knowledge/whatever you want to call it between him and rayn, but I am aware of it between you and him. That's making some sense - I honestly don't know enough to figure out how much stock he should or shouldn't be putting into who he's sheeping and how much, I know he said he had a positive read sometime back on VE in Fullmetal but he was mafia in Fullmetal. IDK.
But your argument is making sense....still don't think at this time it's enough to make ritoky top lynch though.
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Cephiro, honestly most of the points you are making on ASM could be answered by reading the thread in and around his responses. Maybe I can see if you are trying to get additional responses beyond that (like an agenda for a potential partner's scumreads) but that's not what I'm getting from your case.
That is how and likely why I came to the opposite conclusion on him.
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On January 17 2016 07:16 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 07:14 NocturneMage wrote:On January 17 2016 06:55 Damdred wrote:
I think it's 2 it was a postvrestriction game I was in.
Town Ritoky generally takes responsibility and pushes what he thinks. I don't even really know of there is much reason exactly for rot to town 've here besides just someone to,sheep for sheep sake
Besides that there were other things in the other game as well I agree. Like I agree town motivated side is town looks for someone to sheep they trust and does so. But there's also rayn and his soul read buddy me in here, so do you think 've deserved that type of sleeping at this poibt? Okay, so this is basically a meta-related argument you are making against ritoky. I wasn't aware of the relationship/knowledge/whatever you want to call it between him and rayn, but I am aware of it between you and him. That's making some sense - I honestly don't know enough to figure out how much stock he should or shouldn't be putting into who he's sheeping and how much, I know he said he had a positive read sometime back on VE in Fullmetal but he was mafia in Fullmetal. IDK. But your argument is making sense....still don't think at this time it's enough to make ritoky top lynch though. Honestly I don't know that I want to lynch him to say as I do think if he starts scrapping town rainbows he's an asset. The other nonprescenses in the thread worry me a bit,more. Don't you think?
Well Ceph just posted a big case right now if he's trying to get more information on/from a scumread....but right now it's similar to how people are reading mderg for sounding too broad. I realise ASM and mderg are two different players here but it's a similar problem. I think the case, barring additional purpose/information is pretty bad.
And DYH is a low-volume poster as either alignment, only substantive post he has could come from either alignment.
Like I'm still going through a few other things atm, but if all else fails, I will fall back on a policy lynch.
I'm also a bit puzzled as to the collective hesitation on Palmar (barring weekend inactivity).
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On January 17 2016 07:26 Cephiro wrote:
If he constantly thought that Trfel was the better lynch, why the hell would he ever take Trfel's case on Holyflare seriously? That doesn't make any sense.
If your #1 scumread makes a case on someone, who the hell reacts to that by saying the case is good and has valid points, making that #1 scumread less scummy and the case they made the person on more scummy, and still somehow keeping the #1 scumread as #1?
Someone explain me how you wrapped your heads around that logic? Because I sure as hell don't see why a townie would ever react that way.
The way you are phrasing this, you are taking the points in isolation/absolutes. He even said there were other points of his play he considered plus Holyflare's play.
In the event you are town, it's probably better at this point for ASM to straight up respond to you here, but I can actually see a town motivation.
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LOL ninjaed by ASM. Carry on.
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I'm going through Trfel's filter since I AFKed, page 3 is making my brain bleed. Holy shit.
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Right now, I don't like that geript is a bit on the sidelines here....esp with a case on ASM.
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On January 17 2016 07:48 DoYouHas wrote:
@NM- how are you feeling about a HF lynch right now?
Ignoring any of the mod-related stuff...
Like reading his interaction with rayn first impression was town on town before I AFKed. Then he question's rayn's logic and thinks I'm mafia for that. My only caveat with HF is that he's not looking at the rest of my play, then again, that's probably NAI since he makes calls off one post.
Like right now, I feel more sold on Palmar/geript, I see rayn is saying Palmar's play is NAI (ignoring his weekend going afk), geript pushing ASM for meh reasons and not addressing the ongoing Ceph/ASM interactions...
I'm reading Trfel, and I feel there's a few more things I don't like either, his use of disinterest in pushing reads (????). He's scumreading HF's tone as aggressive but part of that aggressive tone is because of the whole mod situation which I'm trying to ignore. I wasn't around present with HF when he was alive in Outlaw, but I know from ages ago when I obsed Gaiden he was pretty aggressive as town pushing his scumreads, so that could be considered NAI.
Like from Fullmetal, Trfel takes NAI points and makes them scummy...and if HF is going to be aggressive in pushing townreads and he's not pushing.....he's going to get scumread either way.
I'm just feeling really meh about Trfel and at this moment, his cases are really poor and I'm just really struggling to understand why people are townreading him (you, Damdred).
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Nope, I'm not flipping scum. And Trfel's push on me is pretty darn scummy.
Also you said I was pretty disinterested and comparing myself to ritoky so where do you stand on that now given what I've been trying to do and what ritoky has done since he last afked?
On January 17 2016 01:13 Trfel wrote:
I guess I could be willing to lynch NocturneMage. I don't think I want to lynch ritoky. It feels like NocturneMage is much more likely to be mafia.
I'd rather not lynch DoYouHas or Cephiro today, they feel very much like coinflips.
My thinking is that in a low activity, disinterested game like this, mafia doesn't need to be super involved with the thread and direct people, because town is going to be largely focused on town. So, mafia just wants to be in the background and mostly fit in, but look good enough to avoid suspicion and have the ability to start seriously pushing something if they need to.
NocturneMage fits that description very well. The best example of this is how he was townreading Holyflare, but didn't care to explain it (or maybe gave one sentence that didn't really say anything, depending on how you interpret it), and was scumreadaing me (Trfel) and voted me. But he didn't seem to care at all that Holyflare was being lynched and he was the only person voting for me.
I guess I'm not sure how to explain it, but to me NocturneMage doesn't feel like disinterested town, but like mafia trying to fit in. What do you think?
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On January 17 2016 08:00 Trfel wrote:Holyflare  Can we just ignore raynpelikoneet and lynch mafia?
Not considering material (or not furthering why what I've laid out since you last AFKed that it's scummy) and keeping the same stance doesn't make you look any more townie at all.
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Also why are people (besides Damdred) ignoring geript and Palmar?
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Trfel - re post 426
On January 17 2016 01:13 Trfel wrote:
I guess I could be willing to lynch NocturneMage. I don't think I want to lynch ritoky. It feels like NocturneMage is much more likely to be mafia.
I'd rather not lynch DoYouHas or Cephiro today, they feel very much like coinflips.
My thinking is that in a low activity, disinterested game like this, mafia doesn't need to be super involved with the thread and direct people, because town is going to be largely focused on town. So, mafia just wants to be in the background and mostly fit in, but look good enough to avoid suspicion and have the ability to start seriously pushing something if they need to.
NocturneMage fits that description very well. The best example of this is how he was townreading Holyflare, but didn't care to explain it (or maybe gave one sentence that didn't really say anything, depending on how you interpret it), and was scumreadaing me (Trfel) and voted me. But he didn't seem to care at all that Holyflare was being lynched and he was the only person voting for me.
I guess I'm not sure how to explain it, but to me NocturneMage doesn't feel like disinterested town, but like mafia trying to fit in. What do you think?
This is your most substantial argument against me and as far as I'm aware, your only one.
When you re-enter the thread, or earlier before you afked you are trying to get others to discuss me.
You return to the thread when DYH votes me and then maintain your scumread on me after a number of things have transpired in the thread.
If I'm your top scumread, you should have noticed any and all of the material I've posted, so I want to know what in that you've found scummy and/or why you would maintain I'm mafia trying to fit in.
At the time Holyflare was getting lynched, it's early in the day and everyone is still trying to figure shit out. I'm purposely ignoring the entire modconfirm/administrative stuff and just trying to play mafia, regardless of HF's alignment there are 2 mafia (in the event HF is mafia) so just centring things around him is a cop-out. My initial analysis was made off a conversation, I tried to read damn filters and I'm still trying to understand how you are coming to the conclusions you are about him. I might not be seeing the same shit you are, but that doesn't make me mafia.
And even if I shouldn't lynch you because you're town and I'm making a mistake as town, I am also concerned at the people that are doing dick all and going ignored if we're all town and tearing each other apart. And why there's no commentary on that.
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On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote:@NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia  I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that?
Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him?
Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it?
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EPT
