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On November 03 2015 19:11 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 18:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 18:21 Rels wrote:On November 03 2015 18:16 Rels wrote:On November 03 2015 18:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:15 kitaman27 wrote:On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:12 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:[quote] yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?  Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game. Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia. Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.". Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went. That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win. This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit). I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around. What post did you reference by saying that ?
And this.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 03 2015 23:09 Xatalos wrote:
But rayn gave good reasons for proposing the full-scum (2/3 scum) team - lots of pressure on the whole team - and there are additional reasons having to do with miscommunications within the scumteam and such, so it might be better to propose that next.
Like seriously...why would you support this idea?
"Lets purposely fail the most important mission because maybe it well help us pass missions later"
Does nobody else see the problem here?
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A part of HTS' play that makes no sense coming from town
HTS was willing to nominate a team without herself yesterday. She didn't do it in the end, but she mentionned it multiple times. Furthermore, she recently said to Xatalos (the next leader in line) that she was OK not being part of his team if he found someone else.
This makes no sense from a town perspective for three reasons:
1.
You're only 100% sure of your alignment in this game. To form a 3-men team you're confident in, having one 100% confirmed townie in it is extremely rassuring. Proof: kita's maths about whether town leaders should include themselves in their team or not. At random, you go from 36% success rate to 18%. Now you won't pick your team at random; but it makes no sense to consider removing yourself from your team, or suggesting to not be part of a team, since the chances of the team succeeding goes up by a lot.
2.
If you're scum, the team will fail. So it makes sense to consider removing yourself from your own team if you're scum, 'cause that seems logical to you, even if you pretend being town in thread.
3.
Lastly, it means HTS is more concerned about having a team being accepted than having a team succeeding. She wants to be read as town, and for that she's OK submitting a team that is agreed upon by the thread sentiment, even if that means she is not part of the team herself. For an example of this, I bolded a particular sentence in the third quote below.
I actually thought rayn was baiting HTS to do it yesterday in this post:
On November 02 2015 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think you should try to find two townreads besides Superbia if you think that's possible when you have read everything closely.
But that wasn't the case.
Sources:
On November 03 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote:
I'm looking at a three-hour delay for my flight home. Fuck this weather.
That is going to put me close to deadline, so I am going to keep my primary submission to what it is now, and then have an alternate submission up ASAP so you people can discuss it before and then I will state what I'm going to do before I get on the plane. If I had to pull myself off the team, it'd be right now - Xata/rayn/Superbia.
I'm feeling better about Xata but not as good as with Super/rayn and I don't believe sicklucker and Artanis will bleed town for me in time for deadline or even before I leave Berlin, if I even do.
Also I don't feel Rels' TMI argument on superbia is valid, but will double check the rest of his followup.
On November 03 2015 01:50 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:43 Rels wrote:
Alright leaving work.
HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me. Going to be blunt, that's not happening, Kita is definitely not happening right now, if I swap Superbia out, it's probably going to be for Xata, and right now I'm not sure of anyone else to swap me out unless I went Superbia/Xata/rayn. *yawn* Thankfully this doesn't need to be unanimous. What is concerning is the lack of reads from a lot of people (inactives aside) because other than Rels saying he won't vote for certain teams, not knowing what teams are going to pass makes this doubly difficult. I know where rayn, Rels and Xata stand, kita to a lesser extent, the rest....shit. I'm hoping as the day wears on, we'll see more activity from the NA-based players (or at least I can resolve Kita). If I'm home on time, I should have at least 30m to see if I last minute swap someone.
On November 03 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:56 kitaman27 wrote:On November 03 2015 06:49 Half the Sky wrote:
##nominate: kitaman27, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky
Still on my way home everyone. So you view yourself, me, rayn, super, and xatalos as trustworthy? Not a lot of wiggle room there with the nulls. Kinda similar to what had me concerned with xata earlier. Or did something that xata or super post move them over to your spy list? I don't mind this nomination as much as the other two....but I'd be much more satisfied with it coming back up for vote later on in the first cycle so I'd have a better grasp on you and rayn. Still not thrilled about accepting a team 24 hours into the game. Right now, I'm most certain on you, rayn, superbia. Less so on Xatalos compared to you three but I don't think he's a spy. The three of you - reads are partially based on meta but still conducive to how you have still played this game so far. For tactical reasons I could swap myself out but seeing as there is only one person disputing my inclusion on the team (who I'm not townreading anyways), it makes more sense to keep myself on the team with my two most certain townreads. Also agreed on the 24h thing, IRL really cut into my playing time, but it is what it is.
Right before deadline + thread sentiment excuse:
On November 03 2015 07:57 Half the Sky wrote:
4 mins left.
Could pull myself off and go with Rayn/Superbia/Kita.
But there are too many people not digging at least one of these as town.
Talking about Xatalos' team:
On November 03 2015 23:01 Half the Sky wrote:
So Xatalos, you're after me, assuming this team is a write-off (seeing as only one person is voting to pass it), I'd say nominate yourself and rayn for sure. I'd also say to vote me, but if you don't trust me, then I'd say see what happens the rest of this cycle and then tomorrow (when the torch passes to you) and then make the decision.
I know where rayn is coming from with Artanis/SL, but I agree with you that Artanis could be either alignment and sicklucker saying you're spy for omgus-like reasons....I don't know about the latter.
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On November 04 2015 01:13 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 23:09 Xatalos wrote:
But rayn gave good reasons for proposing the full-scum (2/3 scum) team - lots of pressure on the whole team - and there are additional reasons having to do with miscommunications within the scumteam and such, so it might be better to propose that next. Like seriously...why would you support this idea? "Lets purposely fail the most important mission because maybe it well help us pass missions later" Does nobody else see the problem here?
Yes of course it's a dumb thing to do. I think you should have not say anything and waited to see what rayn would have done tomorrow though.
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We don't necessarily even need to approve the full-scum team, and it's already useful as a proposal for mentioned reasons. If we do approve it, there are a couple of reasons for why it could be good because of the nature of this game (it's more risky than the full-town team, but also a lot more potentially rewarding). If you want to know these reasons, I can say them later.
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On November 04 2015 01:05 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I gathered he town read you, HtS, Super... and this was posted 10 pages ago, he has way more reads than you do. You obviously think everyone else is town other than rels, kita and I.
I don't even have my full scum team list yet, I don't think anybody has a full scum team list yet, but some how you already do which further fuels my suspicion against you. LOL Sry Shockey but I'm laughing really hard =D
Yea, was just waking up and posting from my phone... I definitely misread it while trying to quote it lol...
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Rels, could you expand on your Kita/shockey townreads?
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BTW I think kita / shockey / me is a clean team.
The mentality behind rayn's proposal of this team is super twisted though.
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On November 04 2015 01:28 Rels wrote:A part of HTS' play that makes no sense coming from townHTS was willing to nominate a team without herself yesterday. She didn't do it in the end, but she mentionned it multiple times. Furthermore, she recently said to Xatalos (the next leader in line) that she was OK not being part of his team if he found someone else. This makes no sense from a town perspective for three reasons: 1.You're only 100% sure of your alignment in this game. To form a 3-men team you're confident in, having one 100% confirmed townie in it is extremely rassuring. Proof: kita's maths about whether town leaders should include themselves in their team or not. At random, you go from 36% success rate to 18%. Now you won't pick your team at random; but it makes no sense to consider removing yourself from your team, or suggesting to not be part of a team, since the chances of the team succeeding goes up by a lot. 2.If you're scum, the team will fail. So it makes sense to consider removing yourself from your own team if you're scum, 'cause that seems logical to you, even if you pretend being town in thread. 3.Lastly, it means HTS is more concerned about having a team being accepted than having a team succeeding. She wants to be read as town, and for that she's OK submitting a team that is agreed upon by the thread sentiment, even if that means she is not part of the team herself. For an example of this, I bolded a particular sentence in the third quote below. I actually thought rayn was baiting HTS to do it yesterday in this post: Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think you should try to find two townreads besides Superbia if you think that's possible when you have read everything closely. But that wasn't the case. Sources: Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote:
I'm looking at a three-hour delay for my flight home. Fuck this weather.
That is going to put me close to deadline, so I am going to keep my primary submission to what it is now, and then have an alternate submission up ASAP so you people can discuss it before and then I will state what I'm going to do before I get on the plane. If I had to pull myself off the team, it'd be right now - Xata/rayn/Superbia.
I'm feeling better about Xata but not as good as with Super/rayn and I don't believe sicklucker and Artanis will bleed town for me in time for deadline or even before I leave Berlin, if I even do.
Also I don't feel Rels' TMI argument on superbia is valid, but will double check the rest of his followup. Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:50 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 01:43 Rels wrote:
Alright leaving work.
HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me. Going to be blunt, that's not happening, Kita is definitely not happening right now, if I swap Superbia out, it's probably going to be for Xata, and right now I'm not sure of anyone else to swap me out unless I went Superbia/Xata/rayn. *yawn* Thankfully this doesn't need to be unanimous. What is concerning is the lack of reads from a lot of people (inactives aside) because other than Rels saying he won't vote for certain teams, not knowing what teams are going to pass makes this doubly difficult. I know where rayn, Rels and Xata stand, kita to a lesser extent, the rest....shit. I'm hoping as the day wears on, we'll see more activity from the NA-based players (or at least I can resolve Kita). If I'm home on time, I should have at least 30m to see if I last minute swap someone. Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 06:56 kitaman27 wrote:On November 03 2015 06:49 Half the Sky wrote:
##nominate: kitaman27, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky
Still on my way home everyone. So you view yourself, me, rayn, super, and xatalos as trustworthy? Not a lot of wiggle room there with the nulls. Kinda similar to what had me concerned with xata earlier. Or did something that xata or super post move them over to your spy list? I don't mind this nomination as much as the other two....but I'd be much more satisfied with it coming back up for vote later on in the first cycle so I'd have a better grasp on you and rayn. Still not thrilled about accepting a team 24 hours into the game. Right now, I'm most certain on you, rayn, superbia. Less so on Xatalos compared to you three but I don't think he's a spy. The three of you - reads are partially based on meta but still conducive to how you have still played this game so far. For tactical reasons I could swap myself out but seeing as there is only one person disputing my inclusion on the team (who I'm not townreading anyways), it makes more sense to keep myself on the team with my two most certain townreads. Also agreed on the 24h thing, IRL really cut into my playing time, but it is what it is. Right before deadline + thread sentiment excuse: Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 07:57 Half the Sky wrote:
4 mins left.
Could pull myself off and go with Rayn/Superbia/Kita.
But there are too many people not digging at least one of these as town. Talking about Xatalos' team: Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 23:01 Half the Sky wrote:
So Xatalos, you're after me, assuming this team is a write-off (seeing as only one person is voting to pass it), I'd say nominate yourself and rayn for sure. I'd also say to vote me, but if you don't trust me, then I'd say see what happens the rest of this cycle and then tomorrow (when the torch passes to you) and then make the decision.
I know where rayn is coming from with Artanis/SL, but I agree with you that Artanis could be either alignment and sicklucker saying you're spy for omgus-like reasons....I don't know about the latter.
I guess she's really focused on looking good... Don't you think it could be just town wanting to be townread? Well, that kind of contradicts the way she's also okay with not being on missions >.> Then why try so hard to look good?
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On November 04 2015 01:33 Xatalos wrote:
Rels, could you expand on your Kita/shockey townreads?
One sentence each since I'm leaving in a few minutes:
Kita makes sense and bring good points. He did that as scum too in a game where he wrecked us; but contrary to that, he's attacking people that are townread by a majority of the town: Superbia and you at the time, rayn just now.
Shockey, I can't see any scum motivation to play the way he does; having odd reads that completely differs from the thread sentiment, and defending them to the point of getting scumread for it.
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On November 04 2015 01:37 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 01:28 Rels wrote:A part of HTS' play that makes no sense coming from townHTS was willing to nominate a team without herself yesterday. She didn't do it in the end, but she mentionned it multiple times. Furthermore, she recently said to Xatalos (the next leader in line) that she was OK not being part of his team if he found someone else. This makes no sense from a town perspective for three reasons: 1.You're only 100% sure of your alignment in this game. To form a 3-men team you're confident in, having one 100% confirmed townie in it is extremely rassuring. Proof: kita's maths about whether town leaders should include themselves in their team or not. At random, you go from 36% success rate to 18%. Now you won't pick your team at random; but it makes no sense to consider removing yourself from your team, or suggesting to not be part of a team, since the chances of the team succeeding goes up by a lot. 2.If you're scum, the team will fail. So it makes sense to consider removing yourself from your own team if you're scum, 'cause that seems logical to you, even if you pretend being town in thread. 3.Lastly, it means HTS is more concerned about having a team being accepted than having a team succeeding. She wants to be read as town, and for that she's OK submitting a team that is agreed upon by the thread sentiment, even if that means she is not part of the team herself. For an example of this, I bolded a particular sentence in the third quote below. I actually thought rayn was baiting HTS to do it yesterday in this post: On November 02 2015 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think you should try to find two townreads besides Superbia if you think that's possible when you have read everything closely. But that wasn't the case. Sources: On November 03 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote:
I'm looking at a three-hour delay for my flight home. Fuck this weather.
That is going to put me close to deadline, so I am going to keep my primary submission to what it is now, and then have an alternate submission up ASAP so you people can discuss it before and then I will state what I'm going to do before I get on the plane. If I had to pull myself off the team, it'd be right now - Xata/rayn/Superbia.
I'm feeling better about Xata but not as good as with Super/rayn and I don't believe sicklucker and Artanis will bleed town for me in time for deadline or even before I leave Berlin, if I even do.
Also I don't feel Rels' TMI argument on superbia is valid, but will double check the rest of his followup. On November 03 2015 01:50 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 01:43 Rels wrote:
Alright leaving work.
HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me. Going to be blunt, that's not happening, Kita is definitely not happening right now, if I swap Superbia out, it's probably going to be for Xata, and right now I'm not sure of anyone else to swap me out unless I went Superbia/Xata/rayn. *yawn* Thankfully this doesn't need to be unanimous. What is concerning is the lack of reads from a lot of people (inactives aside) because other than Rels saying he won't vote for certain teams, not knowing what teams are going to pass makes this doubly difficult. I know where rayn, Rels and Xata stand, kita to a lesser extent, the rest....shit. I'm hoping as the day wears on, we'll see more activity from the NA-based players (or at least I can resolve Kita). If I'm home on time, I should have at least 30m to see if I last minute swap someone. On November 03 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 06:56 kitaman27 wrote:On November 03 2015 06:49 Half the Sky wrote:
##nominate: kitaman27, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky
Still on my way home everyone. So you view yourself, me, rayn, super, and xatalos as trustworthy? Not a lot of wiggle room there with the nulls. Kinda similar to what had me concerned with xata earlier. Or did something that xata or super post move them over to your spy list? I don't mind this nomination as much as the other two....but I'd be much more satisfied with it coming back up for vote later on in the first cycle so I'd have a better grasp on you and rayn. Still not thrilled about accepting a team 24 hours into the game. Right now, I'm most certain on you, rayn, superbia. Less so on Xatalos compared to you three but I don't think he's a spy. The three of you - reads are partially based on meta but still conducive to how you have still played this game so far. For tactical reasons I could swap myself out but seeing as there is only one person disputing my inclusion on the team (who I'm not townreading anyways), it makes more sense to keep myself on the team with my two most certain townreads. Also agreed on the 24h thing, IRL really cut into my playing time, but it is what it is. Right before deadline + thread sentiment excuse: On November 03 2015 07:57 Half the Sky wrote:
4 mins left.
Could pull myself off and go with Rayn/Superbia/Kita.
But there are too many people not digging at least one of these as town. Talking about Xatalos' team: On November 03 2015 23:01 Half the Sky wrote:
So Xatalos, you're after me, assuming this team is a write-off (seeing as only one person is voting to pass it), I'd say nominate yourself and rayn for sure. I'd also say to vote me, but if you don't trust me, then I'd say see what happens the rest of this cycle and then tomorrow (when the torch passes to you) and then make the decision.
I know where rayn is coming from with Artanis/SL, but I agree with you that Artanis could be either alignment and sicklucker saying you're spy for omgus-like reasons....I don't know about the latter. I guess she's really focused on looking good... Don't you think it could be just town wanting to be townread? Well, that kind of contradicts the way she's also okay with not being on missions >.> Then why try so hard to look good?
Good to see you're answering yourself. p:
You're really the opposite of Shockey; each time someone brings a point on someone else, you accept it and change your read of that person. You really are following the thread sentiment to the letter.
Can I have a quick read list post ?
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Meh... I guess she could be scum. At least if Kita is town, it would make sense (including Kita on the team for him to take the fall for a failed mission?).
But if Kita is scum, then I don't really think HTS is. Why not just ride the HTS/Xata/rayn team and fail it? Seems quite likely to be approved and would possibly cause a ragefight between me and rayn or something lol...
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Alright leaving work. Going out tonight, so see you tomorrow folks. (=
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On November 04 2015 01:41 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 01:37 Xatalos wrote:On November 04 2015 01:28 Rels wrote:A part of HTS' play that makes no sense coming from townHTS was willing to nominate a team without herself yesterday. She didn't do it in the end, but she mentionned it multiple times. Furthermore, she recently said to Xatalos (the next leader in line) that she was OK not being part of his team if he found someone else. This makes no sense from a town perspective for three reasons: 1.You're only 100% sure of your alignment in this game. To form a 3-men team you're confident in, having one 100% confirmed townie in it is extremely rassuring. Proof: kita's maths about whether town leaders should include themselves in their team or not. At random, you go from 36% success rate to 18%. Now you won't pick your team at random; but it makes no sense to consider removing yourself from your team, or suggesting to not be part of a team, since the chances of the team succeeding goes up by a lot. 2.If you're scum, the team will fail. So it makes sense to consider removing yourself from your own team if you're scum, 'cause that seems logical to you, even if you pretend being town in thread. 3.Lastly, it means HTS is more concerned about having a team being accepted than having a team succeeding. She wants to be read as town, and for that she's OK submitting a team that is agreed upon by the thread sentiment, even if that means she is not part of the team herself. For an example of this, I bolded a particular sentence in the third quote below. I actually thought rayn was baiting HTS to do it yesterday in this post: On November 02 2015 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think you should try to find two townreads besides Superbia if you think that's possible when you have read everything closely. But that wasn't the case. Sources: On November 03 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote:
I'm looking at a three-hour delay for my flight home. Fuck this weather.
That is going to put me close to deadline, so I am going to keep my primary submission to what it is now, and then have an alternate submission up ASAP so you people can discuss it before and then I will state what I'm going to do before I get on the plane. If I had to pull myself off the team, it'd be right now - Xata/rayn/Superbia.
I'm feeling better about Xata but not as good as with Super/rayn and I don't believe sicklucker and Artanis will bleed town for me in time for deadline or even before I leave Berlin, if I even do.
Also I don't feel Rels' TMI argument on superbia is valid, but will double check the rest of his followup. On November 03 2015 01:50 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 01:43 Rels wrote:
Alright leaving work.
HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me. Going to be blunt, that's not happening, Kita is definitely not happening right now, if I swap Superbia out, it's probably going to be for Xata, and right now I'm not sure of anyone else to swap me out unless I went Superbia/Xata/rayn. *yawn* Thankfully this doesn't need to be unanimous. What is concerning is the lack of reads from a lot of people (inactives aside) because other than Rels saying he won't vote for certain teams, not knowing what teams are going to pass makes this doubly difficult. I know where rayn, Rels and Xata stand, kita to a lesser extent, the rest....shit. I'm hoping as the day wears on, we'll see more activity from the NA-based players (or at least I can resolve Kita). If I'm home on time, I should have at least 30m to see if I last minute swap someone. On November 03 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 06:56 kitaman27 wrote:On November 03 2015 06:49 Half the Sky wrote:
##nominate: kitaman27, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky
Still on my way home everyone. So you view yourself, me, rayn, super, and xatalos as trustworthy? Not a lot of wiggle room there with the nulls. Kinda similar to what had me concerned with xata earlier. Or did something that xata or super post move them over to your spy list? I don't mind this nomination as much as the other two....but I'd be much more satisfied with it coming back up for vote later on in the first cycle so I'd have a better grasp on you and rayn. Still not thrilled about accepting a team 24 hours into the game. Right now, I'm most certain on you, rayn, superbia. Less so on Xatalos compared to you three but I don't think he's a spy. The three of you - reads are partially based on meta but still conducive to how you have still played this game so far. For tactical reasons I could swap myself out but seeing as there is only one person disputing my inclusion on the team (who I'm not townreading anyways), it makes more sense to keep myself on the team with my two most certain townreads. Also agreed on the 24h thing, IRL really cut into my playing time, but it is what it is. Right before deadline + thread sentiment excuse: On November 03 2015 07:57 Half the Sky wrote:
4 mins left.
Could pull myself off and go with Rayn/Superbia/Kita.
But there are too many people not digging at least one of these as town. Talking about Xatalos' team: On November 03 2015 23:01 Half the Sky wrote:
So Xatalos, you're after me, assuming this team is a write-off (seeing as only one person is voting to pass it), I'd say nominate yourself and rayn for sure. I'd also say to vote me, but if you don't trust me, then I'd say see what happens the rest of this cycle and then tomorrow (when the torch passes to you) and then make the decision.
I know where rayn is coming from with Artanis/SL, but I agree with you that Artanis could be either alignment and sicklucker saying you're spy for omgus-like reasons....I don't know about the latter. I guess she's really focused on looking good... Don't you think it could be just town wanting to be townread? Well, that kind of contradicts the way she's also okay with not being on missions >.> Then why try so hard to look good? Good to see you're answering yourself. p: You're really the opposite of Shockey; each time someone brings a point on someone else, you accept it and change your read of that person. You really are following the thread sentiment to the letter. Can I have a quick read list post ?
Atm I think rayn is most likely town. He has a very balanced view of the game and he's following what we talked about on Skype - trying to be more calm and reasonable in the way how he makes reads and pushes things. I didn't really see anything unacceptable from how his reads progressed so far.
Not completely sold on anyone else being town right now. One of HTS/Kita most likely is (I'd guess HTS....) and Superbia could be... SL and Artanis could also well be town based on their "free-spirited" posting like rayn said (not really pushing any agenda).
The rest would be null/scummy unless I forgot something. See previous posts about Kita and shockey, and you I'm less sure on, but... It's kind of hard to accept what reads you've been pushing (like the rayn push, town reading Kita/shockey over all others...?). While at it, you could just explain all of your reads so that I could try and make sense of it.
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Rels, that has to be one of the worst posts I've ever read in my time on TL mafia. I normally don't make those types of statements but what you've said shows you've never played Resistance before, or you're trying to very seriously reach for a way to scumread me.
First, none of what you said has made me mafia. Zero. From RL resistance, there are situations where you don't want to have yourself on the team. There is nothing wrong with pushing to get the team you have accepted (even without yourself on it) provided you have the right thinking - yes you are obviously most sure of yourself, there's no denying that, but if you put someone else on, a good town will take you to task to make sure you aren't putting a scumbuddy on. I am not oblivious to that fact.
If you're town, which I am, and there's a group that doesn't trust you on the team, the only way you're going to show that you are town or even get people to remotely trust you is to go scumhunting and put up three people that you've done some reliable legwork on, show you don't have an agenda as to who you are putting up. There's nothing wrong with swapping yourself out for people that are more universally townread provided you have a basis for doing so. If you cannot sell yourself for being on the team for whatever reason or if people are less sure of you as opposed to others then that is one of a few arguments to not have yourself on a team. If I want to test out a group of people (not the case here as it's the first mission) to try and PoE someone that's another reason to leave yourself off since you know what you are.
Is it suboptimal? In some cases, yes. Is it risky? Of course, you're most sure of yourself. Does it make someone mafia? LOL no.
It's not rocket science. If people can't see what you're working with then that's on the rest of town (just as how a lynched townie and the town shame some proportion of blame).
If anyone wants to argue that I do have an agenda in who I am putting up or my reads are malicious, etc etc that's different but that isn't the argument you are making.
My concern isn't really looking good - I've said at least twice now that if my team fails, big deal. My concern is being transparent enough to be read as town and if I can't get on teams, make sure the right people do. *yawn*
rayn is fine asking me to provide multiple reads. I saw nothing wrong with that. It will be critical for future missions when we need more people.
And once my teams were posted anyone can read the thread, follow up that no one is going to see it get passed and there's nothing wrong or mafia about talking about the next team and utilising your time so that the first mission is assembled right. I can't change my lineup and the discussion on Kita (between rayn/Xata/myself) as to why Kita wasn't a safe pick was fine as discussions on the next team. There is no reason that in of itself makes anyone mafia. It is entirely possible that in this next 24 hours I may find a reason to doubt my own picks. (Less time to decide the teams (24 hours) means that the chances of the team being flawed is higher than our standard 48 hour timeframes to lynch mafia in our normal games.)
The first mission is really important to get right if you know the mechanics of resistance, there were 7h left in the phase, thread isn't as collectively active as it could be at points, so I'm working with what I have. If I want to think ahead to the next phase, there's no reason that makes anyone mafia, me or whoever.
Maybe you have never played Resistance, but wow, I didn't think you'd bottom out like that, but somehow you managed to prove me wrong.
Even rayn said earlier that there are situations you don't want to have yourself on the team so I'm surprised (unless I missed it) you haven't jumped on that point at the time it was made.
Not surprised though, considering you are likely a spy. *yawn*
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On November 04 2015 01:38 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 01:33 Xatalos wrote:
Rels, could you expand on your Kita/shockey townreads? One sentence each since I'm leaving in a few minutes: Kita makes sense and bring good points. He did that as scum too in a game where he wrecked us; but contrary to that, he's attacking people that are townread by a majority of the town: Superbia and you at the time, rayn just now. Shockey, I can't see any scum motivation to play the way he does; having odd reads that completely differs from the thread sentiment, and defending them to the point of getting scumread for it.
Kita only attacked scummy players in that game then, or what? Didn't you just say that he makes sense as either alignment..?
I think there's a fair scum motivation for pushing "odd" reads to manipulate the mission team selections..
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Something that you are completely ignoring is the lessened times to put the teams together. RL aside for me yesterday, I had not much to work with and at least a few others mentioned the same thing because of the collective inactivity. Anyways...
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On November 04 2015 01:55 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 01:38 Rels wrote:On November 04 2015 01:33 Xatalos wrote:
Rels, could you expand on your Kita/shockey townreads? One sentence each since I'm leaving in a few minutes: Kita makes sense and bring good points. He did that as scum too in a game where he wrecked us; but contrary to that, he's attacking people that are townread by a majority of the town: Superbia and you at the time, rayn just now. Shockey, I can't see any scum motivation to play the way he does; having odd reads that completely differs from the thread sentiment, and defending them to the point of getting scumread for it. Kita only attacked scummy players in that game then, or what? Didn't you just say that he makes sense as either alignment..? I think there's a fair scum motivation for pushing "odd" reads to manipulate the mission team selections..
Well if towny players act scummy it makes it easier to push them as a bad guy be it this game or regular mafia. *shrug*
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Hmm.. Well, I'd say it's not 100% good to always include yourself on missions, but it's still a bit odd that you were more concerned about having an approved team than a team with the highest chances of success (meaning that you'd be included, and rather trusting your reads over the consensus)?
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On November 04 2015 02:00 Xatalos wrote:
Hmm.. Well, I'd say it's not 100% good to always include yourself on missions, but it's still a bit odd that you were more concerned about having an approved team than a team with the highest chances of success (meaning that you'd be included, and rather trusting your reads over the consensus)?
Here's the thing. Not everyone had the same reads on everyone. I could include myself with say, Superbia/Xata/whoever, and even if they trust me and don't trust the remaining team members, the team won't pass. You can have whatever reads you have on people but if you cannot sell them or if the people can't sell themselves, the team won't pass. Maybe I'm not being articulate on this, and maybe I'm making it harder for myself but at the end I kept myself on. Still it comes down to the argument that it doesn't make me a spy and the problem with Rels' argument is that he's trying to classify this behaviour as exclusively mafia. That's mainly what I'm trying to say.
And I made sure my thoughts were out there too because I have nothing to hide. Rels trying to classify that as mafia motivated is hilariously bad.
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EPT
