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I mean, Rels looked better than either of them, but... Well, I guess null fit him better. But Kita and shockey were definitely below null. Meanwhile Kita didn't have even a single real scumread?
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On November 03 2015 22:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:54 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 22:49 Half the Sky wrote:
Shockey, I think you posted the wrong thing.
That's Kita casing Xata's reads, not Kita's own reads. Do you think he read that post or the thread closely? I mean like if he did read that post closely and misread it maybe... just maybe... it would strike him odd that kitaman scumreads himself in that post. :p Probably not. What does this mean? Like if you read someone's post properly (let's assume you can misread and think those are kitaman's reads) and actually think about the motivation behind the reads and the post, you come across the sentence that says "kitaman - scum", that doesn't make you ask yourself "wtf"? 
Haha yeah 
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On November 03 2015 17:54 Rels wrote:@HTSShow nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:13 Rels wrote:On November 03 2015 02:43 Half the Sky wrote:
Here again.
Read Xata. Could swap Superbia out for him. I'll sit on this.
Current: raynpelikoneet/Superbia/myself
1st alt: Xata/rayn/myself
2nd alt: TBD
Going through Rels again, then Kita/Artanis/Shockey. On November 03 2015 03:02 Half the Sky wrote:
Read through Kita's filter again. Most of his questions were answered or appeared so. So many questions, so few conclusions. Where do you stand on everyone now?
And my proposed lineups? So you went though my posts and didn't feel the need to post anything ? Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:33 Rels wrote:
OK. What do you think of Superbia's TMI accusation ? [Added just now: you said multiple times you would review it, and either you didn't or I missed it.] @ShockeyShow nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:54 Rels wrote:On November 03 2015 06:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:On November 03 2015 06:38 Rels wrote:On November 03 2015 06:32 ShoCkeyy wrote:On November 03 2015 06:23 Rels wrote:On November 03 2015 04:50 kitaman27 wrote:I don't think I'm comfortable with Xatalos just yet. Here is his read list from what I gathered. Basically all town and null reads. Xatalos - Obviously town reads himself Half the Sky - Strong town read On November 03 2015 01:13 Xatalos wrote:
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point. raynpelikoneet - Strong town read On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote:
rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum. Superbia - Town read, though a tier below the previous ones. Questions the initial push, but seems content with him for the most part. On November 03 2015 00:54 Xatalos wrote:
Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least. On November 03 2015 01:31 Xatalos wrote:
Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too Rels - Null, though this sounds more like townie null On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:
Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. Artanis[Xp] - Null/No shared opinion? ShoCkeyy - Null/No shared opinion? sicklucker - Null kitaman27 - Scum read for lack of interaction at start of the game. Hasn't elaborated much about me since then. From his position knowing that there are three anti-town players, it seems like he isn't really suspicious of anyone aside from me, especially considering that he has so many posts already. I know that I'm probably biased considering that I'm the only one he seems to think is a spy, but that doesn't seem very satisfactory to me. He seems quite content with the status quo. On November 02 2015 23:52 Xatalos wrote:
Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself. I know from my perspective, I wouldn't be so willing to pass along the nominations if I don't have a great idea of where the bad guys might be. Right now it seems more like a process of elimination based on the lack of posts from the null players. Considering we can have several more cycles to get that part sorted out, I'm concerned about his willingness to rush things along so long as he is included in the nomination. I still don't think I've spotted an alternative to super/xat that I'd be satisfied with yet though. It seems that I have the opposite problem than xat. Most people are coming off as untrustworthy/null, rather than the other way around Pretty cool find! Xatalos definitely looked for scumreads in the vanilla game. I just find it weird that when I throw suspicion on rayn to try and get him to engage with me over rels and Xatalos was the one to come in and tell me that my thought on rayn could be wrong [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#383]. Rayn still hadn't engage with me until I specifically quoted him and asked him why [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#396]. This is one of the main factors why I don't like the rayn/xata combo wombo, it looks similar to the way they both engaged with Rels. I'm pretty sure HTS was the first one to discard your angry meta stuff. On November 02 2015 23:20 Half the Sky wrote:On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta: On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this. He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way. On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote:
rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team. This is also my best suggestion as well. I know I said elsewhere, but rayn has done this as town (reference Drams and a host of other games lol), if rayn is indeed a spy, it's not for this. I did list my reasons for thinking rayn as town, if you dispute those, do let me know. Also I'm not sure you can reasonably meta rayn from one game (Himalayas if I recall right?) but your doing so is NAI. You obviously don't realize I'm not talking about the angry meta stuff anymore. No I didn't. Let me quote the posts you're talking about. On November 02 2015 23:31 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:23 ShoCkeyy wrote:On November 02 2015 23:18 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta: On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this. He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way. On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote:
rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team. This is also my best suggestion as well. Which game are you referring to? I think he can get plenty angry as town too lol He can get angry as town too, haven't never seen him play as town. I'm just basing it off my previous game with him, which is why I rather not have him on the first mission. Here is the page where he gets angry because he messed up and/or things just didn't go his way. (Super mini mafia, you can read through it fairly quickly). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497064-star-fox-64-mini-mafia?page=5 Well, he did get pretty angry as town in the Vanilla game... The one that just ended. Tbh I think it's not alignment-indicative for him. On November 02 2015 23:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:On November 02 2015 23:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 02 2015 23:46 kitaman27 wrote:On November 02 2015 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
kitaman because he is talking about setup which is a big no-no in this game unless you are scum and want to give advice to your teammates, like "this is something i would not recommend to do". Well the goal was indeed to give advice for my teammates. You don't need to automatically conclude that the advice was spy motivated. 36% success to 18% success is a significant drop off. The problem is that is actually bad advice. How is that bad advice?... So you're saying rayn didn't defend himself from your read, and didn't even talk to you until you quoted a post of him. But Xatalos did the defending for him. How is rayn not talking to you scum indicative ? I understand how Xata jumping to defend rayn could be scum indicative. But if you think that, what do you think of HTS also defending him in that situation ? Lastly, I don't agree with him saying town should elect themselves in a team where they are leader. @raynShow nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:23 Rels wrote:On November 03 2015 00:18 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:15 kitaman27 wrote:On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:12 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:07 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there? Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation. yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right? Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game. Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia. Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.". Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went. You mean he could be trying to make you ragequit or something? I thought this would have get answered later, apparently not; rayn I would love an answer to that. @Anyone I would love to have your take on this Xatalos' postShow nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:31 Rels wrote:On November 03 2015 05:15 Xatalos wrote:
Well kita, you even quoted the reason for my focus... That finding town in this game might be more useful than finding scum. Of course figuring out the Spies is always useful, but it'll get easier with vote analysis and mission results, whereas here the main goal is to figure out who to send on a mission. At least in IRL Resistance we mostly focused on establishing "clear" or at least semi-clear town. I read this post maybe 10 times and I have no idea if it makes sense from a town perspective. It kinda does, but finding town goes in hand with finding scums. Don't know why someone would do almost exclusively one and not the other before the first mission.
He was ignoring me when I was trying to engage with him. Doesn't make him scum, but it makes the scum meter raise. I feel like HtS town reads anybody she's comfortable with until necessary, obviously she barely knows me and I get scum read because I play the game differently than everybody else. The same as the rayn, xata combo wombo.
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On November 03 2015 22:56 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:37 ShoCkeyy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ShoCkeyy do you agree you, kitaman and Rels should go to the first mission? Yea sure why not, I have a better feeling about kitaman and rels than I do of you... Kita's getting discussed to death now, but Rels....how?
I can answer that. "Because rayn and Xatalos are teaming up against him". (that's what he said)
But on the other hand he now says he doesn't really think i am scum.
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Anyways i don't really think i am getting anywhere until kitaman and Superbia post.
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So Xatalos, you're after me, assuming this team is a write-off (seeing as only one person is voting to pass it), I'd say nominate yourself and rayn for sure. I'd also say to vote me, but if you don't trust me, then I'd say see what happens the rest of this cycle and then tomorrow (when the torch passes to you) and then make the decision.
I know where rayn is coming from with Artanis/SL, but I agree with you that Artanis could be either alignment and sicklucker saying you're spy for omgus-like reasons....I don't know about the latter.
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On November 03 2015 22:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:56 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:37 ShoCkeyy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ShoCkeyy do you agree you, kitaman and Rels should go to the first mission? Yea sure why not, I have a better feeling about kitaman and rels than I do of you... Kita's getting discussed to death now, but Rels....how? I can answer that. "Because rayn and Xatalos are teaming up against him". (that's what he said) But on the other hand he now says he doesn't really think i am scum.
Stop putting words in my posts... I never said you were scum and I never did not say I don't really think you're scum... If you want please quote where I say this... If anything your ignorance keeps fueling my need to keep labeling as scum and keep pushing for you.
I'm going to quote this one more time:
On November 03 2015 21:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:As for your last paragraph, i do think at least Artanis would push stuff more, and SL would bus (lol). B asically as scum you want to look as town as possible and bussing is definitely not out of question, since you only need one scum onto a mission. If you, from the beginning, cut your own chances of getting to missions as scum, you basically just lose the game. Artanis knows better, and i find it genuine that he just has not have time to play and therefore hasn't have good reads. And i still think SL would just bus. And the rest of the people look worse anyways, and everyone cannot be scum.
This obviously means something and all of you are just ignoring it. I wouldn't be surprised that the scum team is leading the town...
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If we play by rayn's logic, I look the scummiest, so then I'm actually town.
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Like i find it really funny that every other post you call me scum and every other post you tell me to point out where you call me scum.
It is literally hilarious. ^_^
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On November 03 2015 23:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Like i find it really funny that every other post you call me scum and every other post you tell me to point out where you call me scum. It is literally hilarious. ^_^
Tell me where I directly called you scum.. This is the third time I've asked you to.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Morning all. I've got to get a couple hours of work done and then I'll catch up from last night.
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There's still time to decide the next team. If we go for the full-town team, then sure, I'll most likely include rayn... And we'll have to decide the third member. But rayn gave good reasons for proposing the full-scum (2/3 scum) team - lots of pressure on the whole team - and there are additional reasons having to do with miscommunications within the scumteam and such, so it might be better to propose that next.
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On November 03 2015 22:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:54 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 22:49 Half the Sky wrote:
Shockey, I think you posted the wrong thing.
That's Kita casing Xata's reads, not Kita's own reads. Do you think he read that post or the thread closely? I mean like if he did read that post closely and misread it maybe... just maybe... it would strike him odd that kitaman scumreads himself in that post. :p Probably not. What does this mean? Like if you read someone's post properly (let's assume you can misread and think those are kitaman's reads) and actually think about the motivation behind the reads and the post, you come across the sentence that says "kitaman - scum", that doesn't make you ask yourself "wtf"?
????
Probably not as in he didn't read either the post or thread closely.
Not disputing that.
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On November 03 2015 23:09 Xatalos wrote:
There's still time to decide the next team. If we go for the full-town team, then sure, I'll most likely include rayn... And we'll have to decide the third member. But rayn gave good reasons for proposing the full-scum (2/3 scum) team - lots of pressure on the whole team - and there are additional reasons having to do with miscommunications within the scumteam and such, so it might be better to propose that next.
The only thing I cannot follow from that strategically is how do you progress from throwing multiple scum on one team - let's say if they fuck up on their end and all pass the mission - then what? Still scrap that team or how do you know it won't mess the townies up as in someone's bound to make the argument "well we passed, how do you argue multiple of us are scum" IDK.
I have to get back to work but I'll just re-read again.
Like I said, having done this in real life, I've never had a situation where resistance used a mission to ferret out someone who we knew was scum so something probably isn't clicking...
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Please remember that voting on proposed teams is MANDATORY, as is submitting a team by the deadline when you are the team leader. During the voting phase, you may switch your vote as often as you like. Your last vote prior to the deadline will be the one that counts. All votes must be sent to both myself and Ticktock.
The current voting phase ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) today.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 03 2015 15:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
if you are scum
On November 03 2015 15:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So basically, if you are scum here
The problem here is that you are making the assumption that I am scum and then using my play to "prove" that assumption. The argument is invalid because you come to your conclusion and then piece together evidence that fits the scenario.
Of course I am going to discuss whether or not superbia or Xatalos should be included in the team. Everyone should be discussing them. Discussing SL, Artanis, and Shoccky is more difficult because they have posted less content. I did provide my thoughts on on Shoccky. I still have no idea about SL. Artanis I shared dissatisfaction about his post nomination reaction, but I will need to reread. Convincing HTS that she is a spy as leader doesn't accomplish anything and I felt okay with your inclusion. There are only eight other players in the game. That leaves Rels I guess, which I've been on the fence. I will go into further detail later.
On November 03 2015 15:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Isn't it a bit hypocritical to entertain a scenario where Xatalos is not town - or cast doubt on him - for "not giving reads" when you yourself haven't really given any reads?
Perhaps but I feel that I do have reads, though I probably could have expressed them in a single post or something to make it easier to follow. List posts at this point are kinda meh though, but I'll oblige sometime today.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 03 2015 19:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:Artanis let's do the play of 2015 and win the game by nominating all scum team on mission 1.
On November 03 2015 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) If there are three scum, and the plan goes through, we autowin the game.
2) That is not going to happen because kitaman will refuse to follow up with that if there is three scum
3) When kitaman refuses to the plan, he actually has to explain why one of Rels/ShoCkeyy is mafia
4) When kitaman says "no" to the plan, i am going to ask Rels about his read on kitaman, and where does he base that on -- in contrary to the read on you (the "Xatalos does not have scumreads" part -- i will explain that further then)
5) And then all of this doesn't matter, except for we get scum talking about each other and not give bullshit reads
6) And the plan will still be town-favored if there is even 2 scum in that group of three (which i am 95% sure of, unless i am playing horribly in this game).
lol this plan is absolutely terrible. You do realize how important it is that town succeeds day one, right? Of course you do.
Essentially the game is won by the resistance by accomplishing the following goals:
1) Win mission two of the first three missions. (Ideally three if you can generate a clean initial group)
2) Win mission four.
The resistance very rarely wins mission five. Identifying 5/6 town is really difficult because you have to include members who participated in an earlier failed mission. It's like 4% success at random.
Now for the triple scum day one nomination to work, you need to identify all three scum for it to be worthwhile. There is a 1.1% chance of doing that successfully at random. We're not going by random but the odds of success are so, so bad.
Suppose we nominate our three spy suspects and mission one fails. We've wasted our easiest nomination phase in exchange for information.
Even if you know the full spy team, you exclude them from the day one nomination and town wins mission 1, 2, and 3 automatically.
Frankly rayn, for you to even suggest a plan like this that is so poorly thought out makes me more suspicious of you.
As for the specifics on Rels/Shoccky I'll go into the read list next.
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On November 03 2015 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I gathered he town read you, HtS, Super... and this was posted 10 pages ago, he has way more reads than you do. You obviously think everyone else is town other than rels, kita and I.
I don't even have my full scum team list yet, I don't think anybody has a full scum team list yet, but some how you already do which further fuels my suspicion against you.
LOL
Sry Shockey but I'm laughing really hard =D
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On November 03 2015 19:46 Half the Sky wrote:
I have a meeting soon. I'll remember to get to Rels questions when I return.
Waiting for this BTW.
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EPT
