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On November 03 2015 22:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:34 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 22:20 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would still like you HtS to explain why kitaman is town. Pretty sure I did through the course of things, but sure will do again. Basically I had gone though his filter and I'm seeing points where he's driving the discussion pretty constructively. #455 is a good example of this to a response from Xatalos that would appear somewhat worded vaguely "like solving the game" where he's asking him to substantiate his read. He did the same thing to me in #458, the followups were there re: Superbia. The other posts that I liked were 569 and anything he mentioned after the nominations went through. The responses to Xatalos re: Superbia were spot on - the latter was not engaged constantly with the thread and from what I can tell those questions would appear to me as trying to figure Xata's alignment since he's obviously said he's not sold on him. As you seem to be relying heavily on meta -- at least here on Xatalos and Superbia (basically the whole read of yours on both of them is based on meta), why are you not relying on meta on kitaman. A couple of questions regarding this: - Do you think kitaman is incapable of making those kinda posts as scum? - Do you think kitaman's play does not make sense as scum (see my post towards him a couple of pages ago)? - Do you think kitaman has hard reads and is taking hard stances? If so, who would you say he thinks is scum and why? First question, admittedly no. Actually early on, I was pressuing him because I wasn't seeing town Kita (read: meta). Kita is a capable player as mafia. Quite. I am aware of that. I'll look at your post again a couple of pages ago but if I recall the right post - I would not take the position that Xatalos is exclusively mafia for not having any mafia reads but at the same time, he's not the first person in TL to scumread someone for not having any scumreads. When I was reading his filter - did he explicitly say "X is (alignment), Y is (this alignment)," no he didn't and if that's what you are looking for, I can understand why you are scumreading him. But in going through his posts on various people, it was pretty easy to tell for me from context who he was townreading or not as strongly. I know I even commented on that somewhere earlier in this game too. So if people want to reject this team for that reason, that's fine. If people want to fear read Kita, I get that. I am basically trying to say that he scumreads Xatalos for "not giving out scumreads" when Xatalos actually has a good portion of townreads based on quite logical reasons. In contrary to this, kitaman has only one real read, which is that i am town.
Like i couldn't give any less fucks about this "now this guy looks a bit better" or "now this guy looks a bit worse" and yes, it kinda implies you think something of their alignment. So does Xatalos' posting.
So saying kitaman's posting does imply that and his "case" on Xatalos (=Xatalos' posting doesn't imply that) is just aa bunch of bullshit.
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On November 03 2015 22:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:34 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 22:20 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would still like you HtS to explain why kitaman is town. Pretty sure I did through the course of things, but sure will do again. Basically I had gone though his filter and I'm seeing points where he's driving the discussion pretty constructively. #455 is a good example of this to a response from Xatalos that would appear somewhat worded vaguely "like solving the game" where he's asking him to substantiate his read. He did the same thing to me in #458, the followups were there re: Superbia. The other posts that I liked were 569 and anything he mentioned after the nominations went through. The responses to Xatalos re: Superbia were spot on - the latter was not engaged constantly with the thread and from what I can tell those questions would appear to me as trying to figure Xata's alignment since he's obviously said he's not sold on him. As you seem to be relying heavily on meta -- at least here on Xatalos and Superbia (basically the whole read of yours on both of them is based on meta), why are you not relying on meta on kitaman. A couple of questions regarding this: - Do you think kitaman is incapable of making those kinda posts as scum? - Do you think kitaman's play does not make sense as scum (see my post towards him a couple of pages ago)? - Do you think kitaman has hard reads and is taking hard stances? If so, who would you say he thinks is scum and why? First question, admittedly no. Actually early on, I was pressuing him because I wasn't seeing town Kita (read: meta). Kita is a capable player as mafia. Quite. I am aware of that. I'll look at your post again a couple of pages ago but if I recall the right post - I would not take the position that Xatalos is exclusively mafia for not having any mafia reads but at the same time, he's not the first person in TL to scumread someone for not having any scumreads. When I was reading his filter - did he explicitly say "X is (alignment), Y is (this alignment)," no he didn't and if that's what you are looking for, I can understand why you are scumreading him. But in going through his posts on various people, it was pretty easy to tell for me from context who he was townreading or not as strongly. I know I even commented on that somewhere earlier in this game too. So if people want to reject this team for that reason, that's fine. If people want to fear read Kita, I get that. I am basically trying to say that he scumreads Xatalos for "not giving out scumreads" when Xatalos actually has a good portion of townreads based on quite logical reasons. In contrary to this, kitaman has only one real read, which is that i am town.
Are you even reading the right thread?????...
He obviously gives A LOT more reads...
On November 03 2015 04:50 kitaman27 wrote:I don't think I'm comfortable with Xatalos just yet. Here is his read list from what I gathered. Basically all town and null reads. Xatalos - Obviously town reads himself Half the Sky - Strong town read Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:13 Xatalos wrote:
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point. raynpelikoneet - Strong town read Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote:
rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum. Superbia - Town read, though a tier below the previous ones. Questions the initial push, but seems content with him for the most part. Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:54 Xatalos wrote:
Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least. Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:31 Xatalos wrote:
Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too Rels - Null, though this sounds more like townie null Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:
Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. Artanis[Xp] - Null/No shared opinion? ShoCkeyy - Null/No shared opinion? sicklucker - Null kitaman27 - Scum read for lack of interaction at start of the game. Hasn't elaborated much about me since then. From his position knowing that there are three anti-town players, it seems like he isn't really suspicious of anyone aside from me, especially considering that he has so many posts already. I know that I'm probably biased considering that I'm the only one he seems to think is a spy, but that doesn't seem very satisfactory to me. He seems quite content with the status quo. Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 23:52 Xatalos wrote:
Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself. I know from my perspective, I wouldn't be so willing to pass along the nominations if I don't have a great idea of where the bad guys might be. Right now it seems more like a process of elimination based on the lack of posts from the null players. Considering we can have several more cycles to get that part sorted out, I'm concerned about his willingness to rush things along so long as he is included in the nomination. I still don't think I've spotted an alternative to super/xat that I'd be satisfied with yet though. It seems that I have the opposite problem than xat. Most people are coming off as untrustworthy/null, rather than the other way around 
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On November 03 2015 22:40 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 22:34 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 22:20 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would still like you HtS to explain why kitaman is town. Pretty sure I did through the course of things, but sure will do again. Basically I had gone though his filter and I'm seeing points where he's driving the discussion pretty constructively. #455 is a good example of this to a response from Xatalos that would appear somewhat worded vaguely "like solving the game" where he's asking him to substantiate his read. He did the same thing to me in #458, the followups were there re: Superbia. The other posts that I liked were 569 and anything he mentioned after the nominations went through. The responses to Xatalos re: Superbia were spot on - the latter was not engaged constantly with the thread and from what I can tell those questions would appear to me as trying to figure Xata's alignment since he's obviously said he's not sold on him. As you seem to be relying heavily on meta -- at least here on Xatalos and Superbia (basically the whole read of yours on both of them is based on meta), why are you not relying on meta on kitaman. A couple of questions regarding this: - Do you think kitaman is incapable of making those kinda posts as scum? - Do you think kitaman's play does not make sense as scum (see my post towards him a couple of pages ago)? - Do you think kitaman has hard reads and is taking hard stances? If so, who would you say he thinks is scum and why? First question, admittedly no. Actually early on, I was pressuing him because I wasn't seeing town Kita (read: meta). Kita is a capable player as mafia. Quite. I am aware of that. I'll look at your post again a couple of pages ago but if I recall the right post - I would not take the position that Xatalos is exclusively mafia for not having any mafia reads but at the same time, he's not the first person in TL to scumread someone for not having any scumreads. When I was reading his filter - did he explicitly say "X is (alignment), Y is (this alignment)," no he didn't and if that's what you are looking for, I can understand why you are scumreading him. But in going through his posts on various people, it was pretty easy to tell for me from context who he was townreading or not as strongly. I know I even commented on that somewhere earlier in this game too. So if people want to reject this team for that reason, that's fine. If people want to fear read Kita, I get that. I am basically trying to say that he scumreads Xatalos for "not giving out scumreads" when Xatalos actually has a good portion of townreads based on quite logical reasons. In contrary to this, kitaman has only one real read, which is that i am town. Are you even reading the right thread?????... He obviously gives A LOT more reads... Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 04:50 kitaman27 wrote:I don't think I'm comfortable with Xatalos just yet. Here is his read list from what I gathered. Basically all town and null reads. Xatalos - Obviously town reads himself Half the Sky - Strong town read On November 03 2015 01:13 Xatalos wrote:
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point. raynpelikoneet - Strong town read On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote:
rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum. Superbia - Town read, though a tier below the previous ones. Questions the initial push, but seems content with him for the most part. On November 03 2015 00:54 Xatalos wrote:
Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least. On November 03 2015 01:31 Xatalos wrote:
Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too Rels - Null, though this sounds more like townie null On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:
Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. Artanis[Xp] - Null/No shared opinion? ShoCkeyy - Null/No shared opinion? sicklucker - Null kitaman27 - Scum read for lack of interaction at start of the game. Hasn't elaborated much about me since then. From his position knowing that there are three anti-town players, it seems like he isn't really suspicious of anyone aside from me, especially considering that he has so many posts already. I know that I'm probably biased considering that I'm the only one he seems to think is a spy, but that doesn't seem very satisfactory to me. He seems quite content with the status quo. On November 02 2015 23:52 Xatalos wrote:
Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself. I know from my perspective, I wouldn't be so willing to pass along the nominations if I don't have a great idea of where the bad guys might be. Right now it seems more like a process of elimination based on the lack of posts from the null players. Considering we can have several more cycles to get that part sorted out, I'm concerned about his willingness to rush things along so long as he is included in the nomination. I still don't think I've spotted an alternative to super/xat that I'd be satisfied with yet though. It seems that I have the opposite problem than xat. Most people are coming off as untrustworthy/null, rather than the other way around
And where is there an actual read?
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Literally shockeyy, what reads do you gather from this:
I know from my perspective, I wouldn't be so willing to pass along the nominations if I don't have a great idea of where the bad guys might be. Right now it seems more like a process of elimination based on the lack of posts from the null players. Considering we can have several more cycles to get that part sorted out, I'm concerned about his willingness to rush things along so long as he is included in the nomination.
I still don't think I've spotted an alternative to super/xat that I'd be satisfied with yet though. It seems that I have the opposite problem than xat. Most people are coming off as untrustworthy/null, rather than the other way around
The rest of the post is Xatalos'
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Whatever SL, I really don't see the point of your heuristic... It's really shallow and clearly faulty if you just think I'm scum based on my question to rayn, disregarding everything else.
I think shockey didn't read the post very well and thought Kita was giving his reads when he actually listed MY reads? Haha
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I gathered he town read you, HtS, Super... and this was posted 10 pages ago, he has way more reads than you do. You obviously think everyone else is town other than rels, kita and I.
I don't even have my full scum team list yet, I don't think anybody has a full scum team list yet, but some how you already do which further fuels my suspicion against you.
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what a fucking shocker....
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Rayn to follow up on the specific reads aside from towning you:
#413/426: scum read on Superbia - first paragraph suggests he has a spy agenda. Followed up with questions. Continues to state his problems with Superbia after his long post on Xata. so that was consistent.
#455: Initial null read on me since he clearly sees my actions from either alignment.
#599: suggesting a scum lean on Artanis, but knowing that Artanis is largely afk, I could take that one with a gain of salt.
This is how I interpreted that.
That said I can't argue with you that Xatalos has more reads period than him. And I also conceded that fundamentally it's not a crime to find all your townies first.
I'll go through filter again and look for possible mafia motivations. The team from what I can tell will probably not pass largely because of Kita being on the team although I know two people won't pass a team with me on it (but whatever) but it can't hurt to do this and if there's enough I missed to give me caution at least I can point it out and hopefully future leaders won't include him.
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On November 03 2015 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I gathered he town read you, HtS, Super... and this was posted 10 pages ago, he has way more reads than you do. You obviously think everyone else is town other than rels, kita and I.
I don't even have my full scum team list yet, I don't think anybody has a full scum team list yet, but some how you already do which further fuels my suspicion against you.
How about you go read the thread. kitaman has never in this game townread Superbia.
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Shockey, I think you posted the wrong thing.
That's Kita casing Xata's reads, not Kita's own reads.
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Though I can't fathom how shockey could come to the conclusion that was a list of Kita's own reads when the list included Kita himself as scum.... Wtf? :D Probably only glanced at the post.
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On November 03 2015 22:46 Xatalos wrote:
Whatever SL, I really don't see the point of your heuristic... It's really shallow and clearly faulty if you just think I'm scum based on my question to rayn, disregarding everything else.
I think shockey didn't read the post very well and thought Kita was giving his reads when he actually listed MY reads? Haha
Hmrpf, just noticed that, sorry just woke up so I'm still playing ketchup... Either way, rayn said earlier that kita town read him and I want to know where because I don't see in his filter.
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On November 03 2015 22:49 Half the Sky wrote:
Shockey, I think you posted the wrong thing.
That's Kita casing Xata's reads, not Kita's own reads.
Do you think he read that post or the thread closely?
I mean like if he did read that post closely and misread it maybe... just maybe... it would strike him odd that kitaman scumreads himself in that post. :p
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I dont see why a town would really be mad if there not town read in this format. AINT EVEN LYNCHES
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On November 03 2015 22:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 22:34 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 22:20 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would still like you HtS to explain why kitaman is town. Pretty sure I did through the course of things, but sure will do again. Basically I had gone though his filter and I'm seeing points where he's driving the discussion pretty constructively. #455 is a good example of this to a response from Xatalos that would appear somewhat worded vaguely "like solving the game" where he's asking him to substantiate his read. He did the same thing to me in #458, the followups were there re: Superbia. The other posts that I liked were 569 and anything he mentioned after the nominations went through. The responses to Xatalos re: Superbia were spot on - the latter was not engaged constantly with the thread and from what I can tell those questions would appear to me as trying to figure Xata's alignment since he's obviously said he's not sold on him. As you seem to be relying heavily on meta -- at least here on Xatalos and Superbia (basically the whole read of yours on both of them is based on meta), why are you not relying on meta on kitaman. A couple of questions regarding this: - Do you think kitaman is incapable of making those kinda posts as scum? - Do you think kitaman's play does not make sense as scum (see my post towards him a couple of pages ago)? - Do you think kitaman has hard reads and is taking hard stances? If so, who would you say he thinks is scum and why? First question, admittedly no. Actually early on, I was pressuing him because I wasn't seeing town Kita (read: meta). Kita is a capable player as mafia. Quite. I am aware of that. I'll look at your post again a couple of pages ago but if I recall the right post - I would not take the position that Xatalos is exclusively mafia for not having any mafia reads but at the same time, he's not the first person in TL to scumread someone for not having any scumreads. When I was reading his filter - did he explicitly say "X is (alignment), Y is (this alignment)," no he didn't and if that's what you are looking for, I can understand why you are scumreading him. But in going through his posts on various people, it was pretty easy to tell for me from context who he was townreading or not as strongly. I know I even commented on that somewhere earlier in this game too. So if people want to reject this team for that reason, that's fine. If people want to fear read Kita, I get that. I am basically trying to say that he scumreads Xatalos for "not giving out scumreads" when Xatalos actually has a good portion of townreads based on quite logical reasons. In contrary to this, kitaman has only one real read, which is that i am town. Like i couldn't give any less fucks about this "now this guy looks a bit better" or "now this guy looks a bit worse" and yes, it kinda implies you think something of their alignment. So does Xatalos' posting. So saying kitaman's posting does imply that and his "case" on Xatalos (=Xatalos' posting doesn't imply that) is just aa bunch of bullshit.
I'm assuming that post was aimed at me - fine. Like I said if you wanted him to explicitly say that, that's completely fine to vote him down. And his post on Xatalos like I said is flawed in the sense that townies can try to find townies first.
And I don't think that's even what Kita was trying to say (bolded the sentence that doesn't make sense) - he was scumreading him for not having scumreads, not because his reads were vague. I don't think I'm misunderstanding there.
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On November 03 2015 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:49 Half the Sky wrote:
Shockey, I think you posted the wrong thing.
That's Kita casing Xata's reads, not Kita's own reads. Do you think he read that post or the thread closely? I mean like if he did read that post closely and misread it maybe... just maybe... it would strike him odd that kitaman scumreads himself in that post. :p
Probably not.
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On November 03 2015 22:37 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ShoCkeyy do you agree you, kitaman and Rels should go to the first mission? Yea sure why not, I have a better feeling about kitaman and rels than I do of you...
Kita's getting discussed to death now, but Rels....how?
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Tbh it's not like I didn't have scumreads when Kita said that. That criticism would apply to Kita himself, on the other hand.
(I thought Kita was likely scum at the time and shockey/Rels were also bordering on scum)
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On November 03 2015 22:54 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 22:49 Half the Sky wrote:
Shockey, I think you posted the wrong thing.
That's Kita casing Xata's reads, not Kita's own reads. Do you think he read that post or the thread closely? I mean like if he did read that post closely and misread it maybe... just maybe... it would strike him odd that kitaman scumreads himself in that post. :p Probably not.
What does this mean?
Like if you read someone's post properly (let's assume you can misread and think those are kitaman's reads) and actually think about the motivation behind the reads and the post, you come across the sentence that says "kitaman - scum", that doesn't make you ask yourself "wtf"? 
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EPT
