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Oh wow, I'm suddenly an Arbiter. Lucky me :D
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I think me and rayn should still go on the next mission... Who else were you considering, Artanis? I'm not really very confident on anyone being town atm besides being pretty confident on rayn...
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On November 07 2015 10:06 Rels wrote:Another thing I didn't like, and he refused to comment on after being asked maybe 5 times: rayn put suspicions in both HTS and me in a short period of time. Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2015 03:27 kitaman27 wrote:On November 05 2015 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
She thinks both you and kita are town but she picks the person that is least likely to get yay-voted in the team.
It makes very little sense. What would be the mafia motivation to suggest a team with a less optimal chance of success here? If HtS is mafia it comes down to this: 1) the team of HtS/Xatalos/rayn gets yay'd; me and Xatalos have "almost definitely confirmed scum", which suddenly makes everything HtS says after that a possibility of a big fuckup. She also needs to argue why Xatalos is scum. 2) the team of HtS/kita/rayn gets yay'd; She can actually more conveniently argue that kitaman is scum, because other people think kitaman is scum aswell. She don't even really need to argue, she can just +1 on the points. (the contrary to (1) is that i am not 100% arguing against her) 3) the team of HtS/kita/rayn get's nay'd (which is very very likely in the first place); she doesn't out herself, and passes the turn onto someone else -- she "looks better" to you, which increases her possibilities of getting picked later on as she is "right". Personally i see the scum motivation in (2) and (3) over (1). If i was at HtS' position i would definitely pick either (2) or (3) over the possibility (1), since regardless of who is scum in this game at that time (and even now) the town is not working very well together. Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:I don't have much to say to your big post kita. I just disagree. I suggest you go read Rels' scumgames to see what he is capable of: Season of the Witch II[/ur]
Battle of DramsBasically the cases he makes look "good" but they are boring. lol, i can't explain that better. Like here Superbia and to some extent HtS are like furious and spit flames everywhere (like BM in SotW game) when getting into argument with Rels. Rels is just.. boring, and the reasoning is boring. And he makes conclusions that don't make any sense, at all. And here is what he thinks about busing in this setup: Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you read his filter, rayn always considers teams when he puts out suspicions. But there, he considers us both possible scums, when in his giant post he said that about busing:
The best way of playing Resistance, at least what i have figured out is to play the first cycle as you were playing mafia. What Rels said is completely untrue, just because if mafia does not look town they cannot bus, everything is situational. The way to play is to give out reads, town and scumreads. While townreads are "more important" here, the fact is that mafia doesn't want an all town team to go on a mission, that should be obvious. Now if scum are bussing, it hinders their changes of getting a mission where there is scum on it to go through, just because they have to downvote missions (unless they themselves are the scum there).
Now if mafia busses, and there happens to be a town leader, they might find themselves in a situation where they must accept an all town team, because otherwise they give themselves away. You can't just have three scumreads and when a mission goes up where all the people there are townread by you, you just can't say "i am nay-voting this team, because...". So if doesn't think scum would bus this game; but he's considering HTS to be a possible scum, when he's convinced I'm scum. If both reads were light reads, that could explain it, as only one of them could be true in his mind; but rayn is convinced since pretty early in the game I am scum. This fact + his view on bussing should make him view HTS as town.
That's just unflipped association though? I don't think it should completely remove a scumread on either of you, even if it could maybe cause him think that you're not both scum together.
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On November 07 2015 10:08 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 10:00 Xatalos wrote:On November 07 2015 09:52 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 09:45 Xatalos wrote:On November 07 2015 09:16 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 08:00 Fidei86 wrote:
!!! MISSION FAILED !!!
1 Sabotage action detected.
Day 2
Artanis[Xp]'s Nomination Phase
Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 7 November 2015. Alright then we have at least one scum in Xata / rayn / SL. Then I think we have at the very least 2 scums in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, maybe 3. I think that's a reasonable assumption... But rayn is most likely town, so I guess that would mean HTS, Artanis and SL would be scum? Kind of hard to see at least Artanis being scum, HTS maybe. So I'd guess there are 1+ scum hiding in the NO votes as well. Don't know, I'm kinda re evaluating everything here. The obvious answer to me is "rayn is scum, SL is town, rayn put SL to blame him when the team fails." Then at least HTS or Arta with him, maybe both. But SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure. And let's not forget YOU are the one that nominated the failing team. If you're scum, that would mean you broke your meta, but that's possible. Yeah, things really need some re-evaluation... The scummiest people pretty much voted NO and clearly all the scum can't be in the NO voters since everyone on the mission voted YES... Possibly SL could be the only scum in the YES voters, I guess. It still makes me rethink my life choices >.> How likely do you think it is ,
SL being the only scum YES voter? Hard to say at this point. 50/50? What makes it hard is that I don't really townread any of the NO voters atm. At least their average towniness seems far below the YES voters :/
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On November 07 2015 10:10 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 10:08 Xatalos wrote:On November 07 2015 10:06 Rels wrote:Another thing I didn't like, and he refused to comment on after being asked maybe 5 times: rayn put suspicions in both HTS and me in a short period of time. On November 05 2015 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2015 03:27 kitaman27 wrote:On November 05 2015 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
She thinks both you and kita are town but she picks the person that is least likely to get yay-voted in the team.
It makes very little sense. What would be the mafia motivation to suggest a team with a less optimal chance of success here? If HtS is mafia it comes down to this: 1) the team of HtS/Xatalos/rayn gets yay'd; me and Xatalos have "almost definitely confirmed scum", which suddenly makes everything HtS says after that a possibility of a big fuckup. She also needs to argue why Xatalos is scum. 2) the team of HtS/kita/rayn gets yay'd; She can actually more conveniently argue that kitaman is scum, because other people think kitaman is scum aswell. She don't even really need to argue, she can just +1 on the points. (the contrary to (1) is that i am not 100% arguing against her) 3) the team of HtS/kita/rayn get's nay'd (which is very very likely in the first place); she doesn't out herself, and passes the turn onto someone else -- she "looks better" to you, which increases her possibilities of getting picked later on as she is "right". Personally i see the scum motivation in (2) and (3) over (1). If i was at HtS' position i would definitely pick either (2) or (3) over the possibility (1), since regardless of who is scum in this game at that time (and even now) the town is not working very well together. On November 05 2015 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:I don't have much to say to your big post kita. I just disagree. I suggest you go read Rels' scumgames to see what he is capable of: Season of the Witch II[/ur]
Battle of DramsBasically the cases he makes look "good" but they are boring. lol, i can't explain that better. Like here Superbia and to some extent HtS are like furious and spit flames everywhere (like BM in SotW game) when getting into argument with Rels. Rels is just.. boring, and the reasoning is boring. And he makes conclusions that don't make any sense, at all. And here is what he thinks about busing in this setup: On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you read his filter, rayn always considers teams when he puts out suspicions. But there, he considers us both possible scums, when in his giant post he said that about busing:
The best way of playing Resistance, at least what i have figured out is to play the first cycle as you were playing mafia. What Rels said is completely untrue, just because if mafia does not look town they cannot bus, everything is situational. The way to play is to give out reads, town and scumreads. While townreads are "more important" here, the fact is that mafia doesn't want an all town team to go on a mission, that should be obvious. Now if scum are bussing, it hinders their changes of getting a mission where there is scum on it to go through, just because they have to downvote missions (unless they themselves are the scum there).
Now if mafia busses, and there happens to be a town leader, they might find themselves in a situation where they must accept an all town team, because otherwise they give themselves away. You can't just have three scumreads and when a mission goes up where all the people there are townread by you, you just can't say "i am nay-voting this team, because...". So if doesn't think scum would bus this game; but he's considering HTS to be a possible scum, when he's convinced I'm scum. If both reads were light reads, that could explain it, as only one of them could be true in his mind; but rayn is convinced since pretty early in the game I am scum. This fact + his view on bussing should make him view HTS as town. That's just unflipped association though? I don't think it should completely remove a scumread on either of you, even if it could maybe cause him think that you're not both scum together. So SL is considered town because "all the scummy people don't want to vote for him"; but this consideration don't extend to HTS being pushed pretty hard by rayn's second hardest scumread after Shockey ?
Hah  Well, I'll let rayn himself answer that one. Didn't he comment on your association with HTS anywhere?
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On November 07 2015 10:12 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 10:04 Xatalos wrote:
I think me and rayn should still go on the next mission... Who else were you considering, Artanis? I'm not really very confident on anyone being town atm besides being pretty confident on rayn... no.... it will fail 100%...
Could you answer my earlier question?
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On November 07 2015 10:12 sicklucker wrote:
xata probably scum for considering that tbh. I dont expect to be on any missions anytime soon only scum would push that
Weren't you saying that you'd only accept missions you were a part of? Why give up now and not push to be on missions anymore..........
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On November 07 2015 10:13 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 10:12 Xatalos wrote:On November 07 2015 10:10 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 10:08 Xatalos wrote:On November 07 2015 10:06 Rels wrote:Another thing I didn't like, and he refused to comment on after being asked maybe 5 times: rayn put suspicions in both HTS and me in a short period of time. On November 05 2015 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2015 03:27 kitaman27 wrote:On November 05 2015 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
She thinks both you and kita are town but she picks the person that is least likely to get yay-voted in the team.
It makes very little sense. What would be the mafia motivation to suggest a team with a less optimal chance of success here? If HtS is mafia it comes down to this: 1) the team of HtS/Xatalos/rayn gets yay'd; me and Xatalos have "almost definitely confirmed scum", which suddenly makes everything HtS says after that a possibility of a big fuckup. She also needs to argue why Xatalos is scum. 2) the team of HtS/kita/rayn gets yay'd; She can actually more conveniently argue that kitaman is scum, because other people think kitaman is scum aswell. She don't even really need to argue, she can just +1 on the points. (the contrary to (1) is that i am not 100% arguing against her) 3) the team of HtS/kita/rayn get's nay'd (which is very very likely in the first place); she doesn't out herself, and passes the turn onto someone else -- she "looks better" to you, which increases her possibilities of getting picked later on as she is "right". Personally i see the scum motivation in (2) and (3) over (1). If i was at HtS' position i would definitely pick either (2) or (3) over the possibility (1), since regardless of who is scum in this game at that time (and even now) the town is not working very well together. On November 05 2015 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:I don't have much to say to your big post kita. I just disagree. I suggest you go read Rels' scumgames to see what he is capable of: Season of the Witch II[/ur]
Battle of DramsBasically the cases he makes look "good" but they are boring. lol, i can't explain that better. Like here Superbia and to some extent HtS are like furious and spit flames everywhere (like BM in SotW game) when getting into argument with Rels. Rels is just.. boring, and the reasoning is boring. And he makes conclusions that don't make any sense, at all. And here is what he thinks about busing in this setup: On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you read his filter, rayn always considers teams when he puts out suspicions. But there, he considers us both possible scums, when in his giant post he said that about busing:
The best way of playing Resistance, at least what i have figured out is to play the first cycle as you were playing mafia. What Rels said is completely untrue, just because if mafia does not look town they cannot bus, everything is situational. The way to play is to give out reads, town and scumreads. While townreads are "more important" here, the fact is that mafia doesn't want an all town team to go on a mission, that should be obvious. Now if scum are bussing, it hinders their changes of getting a mission where there is scum on it to go through, just because they have to downvote missions (unless they themselves are the scum there).
Now if mafia busses, and there happens to be a town leader, they might find themselves in a situation where they must accept an all town team, because otherwise they give themselves away. You can't just have three scumreads and when a mission goes up where all the people there are townread by you, you just can't say "i am nay-voting this team, because...". So if doesn't think scum would bus this game; but he's considering HTS to be a possible scum, when he's convinced I'm scum. If both reads were light reads, that could explain it, as only one of them could be true in his mind; but rayn is convinced since pretty early in the game I am scum. This fact + his view on bussing should make him view HTS as town. That's just unflipped association though? I don't think it should completely remove a scumread on either of you, even if it could maybe cause him think that you're not both scum together. So SL is considered town because "all the scummy people don't want to vote for him"; but this consideration don't extend to HTS being pushed pretty hard by rayn's second hardest scumread after Shockey ? Hah Well, I'll let rayn himself answer that one. Didn't he comment on your association with HTS anywhere? He dodged that question several times.
Ok...? :D Keep asking then I guess.
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On November 07 2015 09:00 Xatalos wrote:Could you explain how your read on me progressed throughout the game?
<<< SL
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On November 07 2015 10:13 sicklucker wrote:
only one im 100% sure is towni n this game is rels
Why?
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On November 07 2015 10:15 sicklucker wrote:
BECUASE I WAS ON A MISSION THAT JUST FAILED? LOL
Why the heck would you, as town, think that it was your fault? >.> If you were town, you should be pushing for the other two, or at least one of them, to be excluded. That mindset is just... hard to imagine for town really.
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Alright, I think I'll be going to sleep on this.... Gn
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On November 07 2015 22:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 22:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 07 2015 22:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
If there is 1 scum in you/xata/sl, and I think there likely is, that means there's 2 scum in Rels/HtS/Shockeyy/Superbia/Kita and I have to select the exact 3 townies from the 5. That seems like a much harder task than selecting the player I have a strong townread on from the mission that failed. I know but the current concensus seems to be only to talk about people who are nominated atm. You can change your mind, but let's see what those people have to say about the team i proposed. Okay, fair enough. I have a concert tonight though so my final team will probably be submitted around like 17:45 GMT (+00:00) unless I read enough on mobile to change my mind by the end of it. ##Nominate Artanis[Xp], Rels, kitaman27, Superbia
Not very confident on this team...
I mean, Artanis, do you currently townread the people there? Why? Or is this just a reaction test and the "final team" will be something different? I'd think it would be better to post your real suggestion well enough before the deadline.
For example, the Superbia pick doesn't seem to make much sense. You scumread him here:
On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: ![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/l8XDS/c5b4b0ac75.png) Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much. Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose.
And there's nothing to indicate you think he's town afterwards? Did his NO vote really matter that much? Or shockeyy/HTS just look worse?
The kita and Rels additions I can somewhat understand. You already townread them before, and neither wanted the previous mission to go through when it should have been scum's main goal to make it approved...
I'm not really sold on the logic that none of us in the first mission should be sent on the second mission though. Since there's probably only one scum on the first team (like rayn said - scum rayn wouldn't probably be eager to send scum SL on the mission with him), I'd think there would be an equal chance of picking town on the team inside or outside the first team (2/3 chance). What's more, SL is quite a lot more likely to be scum than rayn based on play, so all the less reason to exclude us from the mission... Even rayn seemed to agree with excluding us though, but why would that be the obvious solution? I don't really see it. There are just too many potential scum outside of the first mission team. Even if Superbia/kita/Rels all voted NO (townie points, I'll admit), it's not far-fetched for scum to be included there. Meanwhile I'm pretty sure rayn is town and I'm quite clearly town as well, so... Including both of us, or at least me/rayn, would make the mission all-town quite a bit more likely.
The scumteam should be SL + 2 out of shockeyy/HTS/Superbia/Rels/kita. I don't think I can vote YES on a team that has most of its members from those. I guess Superbia/Rels/kita are the most likely town out of those (since they voted NO), but still... I'm like 90% sure rayn is town and not at all sure that Superbia/Rels/kita are all town.
rayn, would be nice if you explained what's the logic behind excluding us two? Just so that the mission is more likely to be voted YES? I don't think it makes sense to make people vote YES at the expense of more likely including scum :/ We still have several leader cycles after all, and you're even next in order yourself.
As for Artanis himself, I'm not as confident on him as on rayn (voted YES and has previously been very townie as scum), but I guess we'll just have to bet on him. It's kind of like how we couldn't afford to lynch him if this was normal Mafia.
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On November 08 2015 00:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:Come on Xatalos, Superbia's no-vote is indicative of him being town.... Show nested quote +[about rayn..] It's kind of like how we couldn't afford to lynch him if this was normal Mafia. since when do you think like this?
Yeah, I guess... I was mostly curious about why Artanis included him over us when he scumread him before this >.>
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On November 08 2015 00:56 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 00:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:Come on Xatalos, Superbia's no-vote is indicative of him being town.... [about rayn..] It's kind of like how we couldn't afford to lynch him if this was normal Mafia. since when do you think like this? Yeah, I guess... I was mostly curious about why Artanis included him over us when he scumread him before this >.>
And oh yeah, it's just that it feels oddly hard to get townreads in this game, and Artanis at least has felt overall townie. So in a normal Mafia game lynching him would be... Probably catastrophic.
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On November 08 2015 00:54 sicklucker wrote:
xata
The scumteam should be SL + 2 out of shockeyy/HTS/Superbia/Rels/kita. I don't think I can vote YES on a team that has most of its members from those. I guess Superbia/Rels/kita are the most likely town out of those (since they voted NO), but still... I'm like 90% sure rayn is town and not at all sure that Superbia/Rels/kita are all town.
only hts voted yes to pass the mission...
I didn't say HTS voted NO?
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On November 08 2015 00:55 sicklucker wrote:
xata why am I scum
Mainly because I think rayn is town. Also because you still haven't answered how your read progression on me worked until now, and why Rels is 100% town. If you want to convince me otherwise, start from there.
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On November 08 2015 01:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:well let's talk we three. We all know there is at least one scum amongst us. 
Should be fun
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Looks like I'll be going to the sauna in like 30min so post quickly
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On November 08 2015 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Xatalos who do you actually think is most likely to be scum rn?
I don't like the "this guy is scum and then two of these five other people".
Three people, most likely to be mafia, ok?
SL most likely, then probably shockeyy and HTS (shockeyy for generally senseless reads/votes and HTS for voting YES and otherwise not looking too good... also the way she handled the first nomination).
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EPT
