EPT[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience - Page 175
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On November 01 2015 02:06 Chromatically wrote: gumshoe, there's actually like a billion reasons in the thread for GB to be mafia from a whole bunch of people, and everyone has agreed with it... I don't know how you can still defend him, especially not from a random vote Hopeless threw down (lol). I'm fine lynching Hopeless today though, that's probably the "correct" move given that he probably literally isn't going to post today now that he's voted. I do agree with Vivax's desire to see whether the wagons were M-T or T-T, but in either case we should lynch Hopeless so I don't think it actually matters that much. GB just has to be lynched tomorrow. I've disagreed with almost all those reasons : P gb just doesn't strike me as the guy I've been playing against. Hes put too much effort into a game that could be easily as seen as lost from the get go. I just dont get how he thought he could win day 1 with a team of hopeless and onegu by playing such an agro style / : like, when I look at gb, I see someone who is just begging to be lynched constantly with his play(coming out with a case against me of all things yesterday -_-) but if your right about his team, hes not bieng an lightning rod for anyone, onegu and hopeless get lynched no matter what, so who is he tanking for? Whats more he IS playing the game, I think your a bit biased by his meta, from a totally neutral standpoint hes been very active and engaging, usually answering all questions directed at him. I just dont see it man, hes playing as if the game isn't lost , especially his big anti me post yesterday, why put in all that stupid effort just to flip and basically prove it all to be bullshit Hes making a post that will make absolutely no difference if he flips scum, so clearly he must think hes going to survive right? But if your right, his own two teamates were bussing him, and they never stopped bussing him 0_0 So gb puts a ton of effort into a case that wont make even make a ripple let alone a wave if he flips scum, on the off chance that town would save him while his own mates were bussing? I just dont buy it, I would expect something like Onegu's pity post any day, but not a whole frikin case that only matters on the off chance that I live when my own team has given up on me -_-. Meanwhile, we have onegu pleading, screaming wifom, and hopeless bending backwards to justify why his null read is his scum read and his should be scum read is a null read. and of course dont forgot Vivax's last second attempt to sway xata -_- Too much effort was put in by all our suspects for a lynch that supposedly didn't fucking matter 0_0 its just not consistent chrom, I checked vivax's games, hes fully capable of playing an active scum game like this / : you should check him out for yourself. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On November 01 2015 02:44 Hopeless1der wrote: Be honest, is there really a possibility that at I could convince everyone that I was town? nop | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On November 01 2015 02:44 Hopeless1der wrote: Be honest, is there really a possibility that at I could convince everyone that I was town? not... really? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On November 01 2015 02:44 Hopeless1der wrote: Be honest, is there really a possibility that at I could convince everyone that I was town? Well, I'm drunk And my drunk senses are pointing out that you're town. So there's that My drunk senses also strongly suggests Vivax is mafia with BH. #drunkbear Bye | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
On November 01 2015 02:51 gumshoe wrote: I've disagreed with almost all those reasons : P gb just doesn't strike me as the guy I've been playing against. Hes put too much effort into a game that could be easily as seen as lost from the get go. I just dont get how he thought he could win day 1 with a team of hopeless and onegu by playing such an agro style / : like, when I look at gb, I see someone who is just begging to be lynched constantly with his play(coming out with a case against me of all things yesterday -_-) but if your right about his team, hes not bieng an lightning rod for anyone, onegu and hopeless get lynched no matter what, so who is he tanking for? Whats more he IS playing the game, I think your a bit biased by his meta, from a totally neutral standpoint hes been very active and engaging, usually answering all questions directed at him. I just dont see it man, hes playing as if the game isn't lost , especially his big anti me post yesterday, why put in all that stupid effort just to flip and basically prove it all to be bullshit Hes making a post that will make absolutely no difference if he flips scum, so clearly he must think hes going to survive right? But if your right, his own two teamates were bussing him, and they never stopped bussing him 0_0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jiBeQctWa8 So gb puts a ton of effort into a case that wont make even make a ripple let alone a wave if he flips scum, on the off chance that town would save him while his own mates were bussing? I just dont buy it, I would expect something like Onegu's pity post any day, but not a whole frikin case that only matters on the off chance that I live when my own team has given up on me -_-. Meanwhile, we have onegu pleading, screaming wifom, and hopeless bending backwards to justify why his null read is his scum read and his should be scum read is a null read. and of course dont forgot Vivax's last second attempt to sway xata -_- Too much effort was put in by all our suspects for a lynch that supposedly didn't fucking matter 0_0 its just not consistent chrom, I checked vivax's games, hes fully capable of playing an active scum game like this / : you should check him out for yourself. I mean... effort does not equal town. For example. I put a lot of effort in regardless of my alignment. I agree that it would have been pretty demoralizing to play the game through with Onegu and Hopeless as your mafia partners (assuming that that's the world), but clearly the mafia IS playing the game and hasn't given up. GB fits that description just as well as Vivax or anyone else. Maybe you could characterize GB as having an "aggro style". but going after people and arguing with them is something that mafia can do and have to do. If you don't do anything in the thread, then you'll obviously get lynched. I can talk specifically with his post about you he made. Why is he more likely to put effort in there as town or as mafia? As mafia, he wants to seem like he's town by pushing to survive, and making posts like that is one of the ways he can seem town. In addition, he probably thinks that he can carry the game better than Onegu can, so he legitimately wants Onegu lynched over him. Putting "effort" in when you're about to be lynched is not a town tell; I would have put in a lot of effort in that position as mafia too. You said that I'm "biased" by his meta, but you don't explain why it's bias. The meta is a very legitimate point against GB. You're similarly using meta as a point against Vivax, but I found his meta pretty inconclusive for me. I did check it out for myself and made a post about it a while ago. He could be playing like this as mafia, but his meta doesn't show that he's more likely to be mafia. With GB, the meta does. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On November 01 2015 05:10 Chromatically wrote: I mean... effort does not equal town. For example. I put a lot of effort in regardless of my alignment. I agree that it would have been pretty demoralizing to play the game through with Onegu and Hopeless as your mafia partners (assuming that that's the world), but clearly the mafia IS playing the game and hasn't given up. GB fits that description just as well as Vivax or anyone else. Maybe you could characterize GB as having an "aggro style". but going after people and arguing with them is something that mafia can do and have to do. If you don't do anything in the thread, then you'll obviously get lynched. I can talk specifically with his post about you he made. Why is he more likely to put effort in there as town or as mafia? As mafia, he wants to seem like he's town by pushing to survive, and making posts like that is one of the ways he can seem town. In addition, he probably thinks that he can carry the game better than Onegu can, so he legitimately wants Onegu lynched over him. Putting "effort" in when you're about to be lynched is not a town tell; I would have put in a lot of effort in that position as mafia too. You said that I'm "biased" by his meta, but you don't explain why it's bias. The meta is a very legitimate point against GB. You're similarly using meta as a point against Vivax, but I found his meta pretty inconclusive for me. I did check it out for myself and made a post about it a while ago. He could be playing like this as mafia, but his meta doesn't show that he's more likely to be mafia. With GB, the meta does. For the bias aspect, I checked out gbs games, you only mentioned 6 of them but hes played at close to 30 -_- I checked the games where hes about to get lynched, when hes scum its more like "wow you guys are so bad for voting me" its all about protecting himself, but yesterday he was pretty much resigned to dying, and was more concerned with pushing a scum read before he died. Which is more in line with his town games I've found. Also your argument he was trying to convince town with effort is kinda bull, his own teamers were totally bussing him, it was as grim a situation as it gets, scum gb would spend his last moments yelling at town for thier incompetence, not trying to "solve" the game / : also out of the 7 scum games he played, only one of them has had as much activity as hes shown this game / : his push vs me was all caps and hyperbole. his filter is higher than his scum average his "last moments" are more in line with town gb all in all, his meta seems more in his favour than anything else / : but maybe thats just mah bias. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Just like this Checkout the latest newbie mafia | ||
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Vivax
22414 Posts
So he can lynch him and if he flips town he actually gets to apply it. And BEFORE we tinfoil we can actually find out if it's worth tinfoiling, that's when GB flips mafia. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On November 01 2015 06:05 Vivax wrote: Gumshoe's entire argument against me asking Xata to switch is pretty bad if GB is mafia cause that shows you I actually had no reason to beg Xata to switch his vote except for just getting my pref lynch. Yes it was. So he can lynch him and if he flips town he actually gets to apply it. And BEFORE we tinfoil we can actually find out if it's worth tinfoiling, that's when GB flips mafia. I am saying gb isn't mafia -_- his actions as scum are retarded, and gbs not that bad as scum. Hes more insulty and apathetic as opposed to bullheaded townie. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
On November 01 2015 05:45 gumshoe wrote: For the bias aspect, I checked out gbs games, you only mentioned 6 of them but hes played at close to 30 -_- I checked the games where hes about to get lynched, when hes scum its more like "wow you guys are so bad for voting me" its all about protecting himself, but yesterday he was pretty much resigned to dying, and was more concerned with pushing a scum read before he died. Which is more in line with his town games I've found. Also your argument he was trying to convince town with effort is kinda bull, his own teamers were totally bussing him, it was as grim a situation as it gets, scum gb would spend his last moments yelling at town for thier incompetence, not trying to "solve" the game / : also out of the 7 scum games he played, only one of them has had as much activity as hes shown this game / : his push vs me was all caps and hyperbole. his filter is higher than his scum average his "last moments" are more in line with town gb all in all, his meta seems more in his favour than anything else / : but maybe thats just mah bias. I'll take your main points one by one here. "Only once had this much activity as mafia before" and "filter is higher than the scum average" That's because there's only two games where he gets to the end of D3 as mafia. Same with the point about scum filter average, you're not taking into account game length. Here are the stats from the 5 most recent town games where he gets to end of D3, and the only 2 mafia games where he does: Pages of filter at the end of D3: Town: 10 pgs -Student 27 pgs -Himalayas 11 pgs -Assassination 12 pgs -Down Under 8 pgs -Hammertime Average: 13.6 pgs Mafia: 9 pgs -GoT 11 pgs -LXVIII Average: 10 pgs I'll concede that the activity isn't a point for him to be lynched anymore (the difference isn't large enough and not enough mafia games), but it's not a point in his favor either like you say it is. "Last moments are more in line with town GB" First of all-- of course his teammates would be bussing him, the lynch was between two mafia (assuming GB was mafia); there was no choice! If GB spends his last moments yelling at town, maybe he gets lynched there. Instead, he wants to look as townie as possible, which means posting things relevant to scumhunting. More importantly, I think you've seriously mischaracterized GB's meta. You say that he does the "you guys are bad" thing more often as mafia, but I see him do it as town too (although he does do it as mafia too, so I would say it's not alignment-indicative for him). In fact, as mafia, he pushes scumreads just like you say he wouldn't. Examples (I took one quote from each of the three most recent games where he was lynched as each alignment): Town where he calls the town bad: On June 25 2015 11:53 GlowingBear wrote: townies that mislynched me, know that I will send PM's to you each day, for 365 days after endgame, reminding you how bad you are. Mark my words. The North remembers. On February 01 2015 11:21 GlowingBear wrote: UNVOTE RIGHT NOW YOU STUPID THIS IS LYLO AND YOU'RE THROWING THE GAME OUT On November 29 2014 07:20 GlowingBear wrote: Mislynch damdred then. Or me. I don't fucking care anymore. Mafia where he posts scumreads as he's about to be lynched: On July 07 2015 06:11 GlowingBear wrote: This is the dumbest shit you have said all game If the guy is a tracker he is obviously thinking about who might be delivering kp. This is such a poor argument that it can't be coming from town wave. I refuse to believe you can be this bad as town. This is Himalaya all over. Cixah, Wave, Bill Murray In case I really get lynched, this is the scum team. Go against them when I flip, ESPECIALLY Cixah On April 21 2015 05:33 GlowingBear wrote: Fuck this I want to lynch SL first If impossible, I want to lynch HF If impossible, I'll lynch Koshi I will lynch no one else. I'm pretty certain this is the scum team + Koshi is intentionally trying to piss WoS off, reinforcing the argument that Koshi is mafia with them. On April 12 2015 09:10 GlowingBear wrote: Lol thank you, SL. You just showed that palmar listed obi as possible Mafia, never updated this read, but bashes me for voting him. PEOPLE PALMAR AND OBI ARE MAFIA TOGETHER CONSOLIDATE ON PALMAR WITH ME In particular, I think the first mafia post I quoted here is strikingly similar to what he did this game, where he calls out a team and tells the town to go after them if he flips (despite the fact that he is mafia). My point is that mafia GB is perfectly capable of posting scumreads before he flips, as shown here, and that calling the town/people voting him bad is not a mafia-tell for GB (meaning that the fact that he didn't do it this game is irrelevant). "His push vs me was all caps and hyperbole" I don't think allcaps and hyperbole is indicative of town GB at all. GB does the allcaps yelling thing as both alignments. Here's some examples from both alignments, taken from those same games right before he was about to be lynched: Town: On June 25 2015 05:14 GlowingBear wrote: WE ARE LYNCHING HOLYFLARE VOTE HIM RIGHT NOW. On January 31 2015 01:33 GlowingBear wrote: Dude those were TWO QUOTES. TWO QUOTES. SHOW ME ANY EFFORT YOU'VE PUT INTO BRINGING ATTENTION TO YOUR LATE CASE ON ME. PALMAR SAYS WHARRGARBL LYNCH TOAD WHAT DO YOU DO? KEEP SILENT. YOU DON'T SAY "HEY LOOK AT MY CASE AND GIVE THOUGHTS" ARGH On November 29 2014 06:38 GlowingBear wrote: FOR CHRIST SAKE MARV, WHY WOULD I, AS SCUM, GO AGAINST ONE OF THE MOST AGGRESSIVE AND PERSUASIVE PLAYERS ON THE THREAD? WHY WOULD I TAKE THIS STANCE IF I KNEW DAMDRED WAS GOING TO DIE INSTEAD OF ME? THAT'S EXACTLY THE POSITION SUPERBIA IS IN. HE IS NOT GETTING LYNCHED, THEREFORE, FUCK HIS SCUNREAD, HE'LL JUST STAND BY AND SEE THE GUY I CALLED OUT BEING LYNCHED. Mafia: On July 07 2015 09:43 GlowingBear wrote: I KEEP TELLING YOU "I KNOW CIXAH IS MAFIA, I KNOW CIXAH IS MAFIA" AND YOU CAN'T FUCKING GET ME? GODDAMMIT On April 21 2015 07:38 GlowingBear wrote: EVERYTIME I CAN GET MY PHONE TO CHECK THE THREAD THERE IS HF POSTING THIS STUPID "AFK GB AGAIN LOLOLOL MAFIA" AAAAAARGH YOU COULDN'T EVEN EXPLAIN WHY BEING AFK MAKES ME MAFIA AND YOU FUCKING DIDN'T PROPERLY READ MY CASE ON SL, A CASE THAT EVEN HIIIIIIIMSEEEEEELF COULDN'T CLEAR HIS THOUGHT PROCESS WTF AAAAAAAAAAARGH HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE NOT SEE IT?????????????? On April 21 2015 07:50 GlowingBear wrote: IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ACTIVELY VOTE FOR LYNCHING A TOWN READ THAN BACK OFF CONVINIENTLY AT EOD WHEN KOSHI DIDN'T MAKE SHIT FOR YOU TO FLIP LIKE THAT AND FORM A WAGON ON A TOWNIE UNLESS YOU'RE FUCKING MAFIA WITH KOSHI On April 12 2015 11:42 GlowingBear wrote: HAHAHAHA OBI YOU'RE SO FUCKING MAFIA On April 12 2015 12:36 GlowingBear wrote: DAMDY PLEASE LISTEN I AM TOWN HERE, YOU'RE TUNNELED, PLEASE READ MY ARGUMENTS AGAINST OBI AND VOTE HIM Pushing people with allcaps and hyperbole before he's about to be lynched is definitely not a town tell for GB. Reading the filters, I felt like his pushes as mafia were more similar to his push this game (like the last mafia one quoted here), but you can see if you agree with that for yourself. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/487093-mafia-in-the-himalayas?user=GlowingBear http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?user=GlowingBear http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/471815-russia-today-mini-mafia?user=GlowingBear (town) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/487695-ot-vs-the-mods-mafia?user=GlowingBear http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/482863-game-of-thrones-mini-mafia?user=GlowingBear http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480965-mafia-mini-mafia2-another-miniature-game-of-mafia?user=GlowingBear (mafia) And to add on, this is all just talking about meta. We haven't even talked about the other points at all, like: - read on Vivax where the reasons always change but his read stays the same - calls rayn town and then mafia for the same reasons without any sign of reevaluation (says he switched because he was worried about OMGUSing?) - ritoky's read about how he expected GB to play - Onegu never gives a read on GB other than null - doesn't go after Vivax/Hopeless (his scumreads from all game) when he should know the wagons were town-mafia on D3 - marv, rayn, Xatalos (confirmed town, strong players that were night killed) all thought that GB was mafia | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
I've been thinking a lot about the D3 lynch, I think I have nice flowchart-type things of what to do and how logical certain teams are depending on the flip we get next. I don't think that they're super relevant at this moment though. If anyone has a preference as to Hopeless or GB today, then say it now. The only worry I have about Hopeless today is trying to get gumshoe to vote GB tomorrow in the case where Hopeless is town and sends us into LYLO. | ||
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Vivax
22414 Posts
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On November 01 2015 17:26 Chromatically wrote: Do you prefer GB to Hopeless today, Vivax? Or don't care? His vote is currently on H1, but from the sounds of it he's about to move it. | ||
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Vivax
22414 Posts
Prefer GB | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
H1 (1):Chrom Not Voting (3): Gumshoe, ritoky, GB Gumshoe and GB are gonna vote H1 by the looks of things (though Gumshoe has a good chance of being convinced by Chrom's case IMO Based on ritoky's post analyzing GB he wants to maybe lay off GB today and vote H1 first. he doesn't post hard conclusions but htese are the two most recent of his posts on our wagons: On October 31 2015 07:46 ritoky wrote: not really sure what to make of that. wifom tells me suggests a GB/x team otherwise i am confirmed town and should be instantly shot because all other cases i am conf. brain tells me that whoever is making kills needs lessons from me on how to win as mafia.... i kinda wanna lynch GB first just cuz i am greedy and if he is town then i am full confirmed 4 lyfe instead of 99.999999999999999% confirmed like i already am. and if he is mafia then i lynch mafia and have a perfect voting record which means despite my actual play i am actually the best ever. win-win for me. but i seem to remember someone having some reason why hopeless was better first? what was it? On October 31 2015 07:56 ritoky wrote: putting this here for me to do stuff with later. first impressions: i am sexy, vivax and hopeless have voted together every vote, chroma/vivax/hopeless have never voted on conf mafia, no hipster mafia day 1 I'd be interested to hear what ritoky has to say now, before end of day. ritoky: please fill us in. | ||
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