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Several of coolTLname's posts seem to show a town thought process, even if they don't arrive at the same conclusions that I would.On October 02 2015 12:18 coolTLname wrote:
he even claimed roleblocker night 1 , btw. And damdred is roleblocked all of a sudden.
so i guess my onnly real read is GB right now. And whoever said i was role hunting 101 with the "can medics heal themselves" question is my #2 suspect On October 02 2015 12:18 coolTLname wrote:
because mafia would be thinking.. Hey is this guy actually the medic?? so they would notice that post These posts, for example.
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On October 03 2015 15:48 Rels wrote:
Don't agree on coolTLname, and I'm suspicious of moosy and shining
CoolTLname has made a dumb tell that he knows proclaims to be intentional. If he was town he would have seen that it is obvious its weird. Only a mafia could think maybe this could be believable
Moosy tried to steal credit for being the first to vote and to push me. I might have spotted another contradiction but he s not answering my question, so I'm waiting for that to go further
Shining because it was the only really different read between rayn and Marv, if you don't count the "not definite reads" Marv had at night. So nk may indicate he s mafi. Plus I agree with whoever he s not doing much apart from talking about coolTLname. I didn't read his filter though so I need to do that
Still in my bed though so ask if you need more details; I'll do it when I get up and get to my pc :p
I m super interested by your reads on moosy and shining What was this specific dumb tell that you refer to about coolTLname? I may not have gotten to it yet, but if there's one that's more significant than the others, it would be nice if you could point out which one.
To me, the night kill is best explained as mafia trying to clear out the thread leadership. I didn't feel like marvellosity had many strong reads. But marvellosity is clearly the leader, raynpelikoneet would likely follow him in the end.
One thing is that raynpelikoneet was constantly insisting that rsoultin and coolTLname are town, and marvellosity wasn't. That is another possible reason that marvellosity would be night killed, probably a much more likely one than The Shining being the reason.
I'll let you know when I have more.
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On October 03 2015 16:01 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 15:53 Trfel wrote:On October 03 2015 15:48 Rels wrote:
Don't agree on coolTLname, and I'm suspicious of moosy and shining
CoolTLname has made a dumb tell that he knows proclaims to be intentional. If he was town he would have seen that it is obvious its weird. Only a mafia could think maybe this could be believable
Moosy tried to steal credit for being the first to vote and to push me. I might have spotted another contradiction but he s not answering my question, so I'm waiting for that to go further
Shining because it was the only really different read between rayn and Marv, if you don't count the "not definite reads" Marv had at night. So nk may indicate he s mafi. Plus I agree with whoever he s not doing much apart from talking about coolTLname. I didn't read his filter though so I need to do that
Still in my bed though so ask if you need more details; I'll do it when I get up and get to my pc :p
I m super interested by your reads on moosy and shining What was this specific dumb tell that you refer to about coolTLname? I may not have gotten to it yet, but if there's one that's more significant than the others, it would be nice if you could point out which one. To me, the night kill is best explained as mafia trying to clear out the thread leadership. I didn't feel like marvellosity had many strong reads. But marvellosity is clearly the leader, raynpelikoneet would likely follow him in the end. One thing is that raynpelikoneet was constantly insisting that rsoultin and coolTLname are town, and marvellosity wasn't. That is another possible reason that marvellosity would be night killed, probably a much more likely one than The Shining being the reason. I'll let you know when I have more. I'm talking about the "can medic shoot at night?" Question from his early posts Rayn insisted that rsoultin and coolTLname were town ? He was saying that cool was town at deadline, and I think he reversed this read at night. Will check the exact timing. Rayn never insisted that rsoultin was town I think ? Mafia, mafia, mafia...
Town = mafia 
Maybe I should go to sleep....
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How about the part where coolTLname has continued to play for almost all of this time?
If he's mafia, he's getting super bussed here. I don't think anyone has even tried to make a second wagon. And he knows it, there's really no reason to keep playing. There's no way he would try for as long as he did.
I'm very confident that coolTLname is town. I don't even think I have to reread his filter...
And Rels, for the posts I was talking about, I think that he's more likely to post that as town than as mafia. That's simply a thought that mafia would want to keep in the QT and they probably wouldn't want to post it in the thread. Furthermore, the discussion about roles is something very common in SC2 Arcade Mafia, so I think it's actually quite fitting to come from town with that in mind.
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Like, if I say it in big green letters will you listen?
CoolTLname is town!!!
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On October 03 2015 16:15 Rels wrote:
lol
I agree that it's a bus and it's weird, actually that's why I switched off him last night. But I'm pretty sure he said several times now he wouldn't bother coming back, and if that's the case your argument is flawed
wait a minute I will quote some things No, my argument isn't flawed, he would have quit much, much, much, much earlier if he were mafia. He wouldn't have stuck through all of those arguments with raynpelikoneet. My argument is strong.
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Hm, we are interpreting marvellosity's filter very differently.
I'd place his rsoultin read at null at worst, for example, probably a slight town lean.
Before the lynch, he said that coolTLname was 95% town. I don't remember him saying much to change that. But either way, it shows that he's willing to look past the inconsistencies in coolTLname's play, and he was also arguing that one of raynpelikoneet's main Day 1 points about why coolTLname is mafia wasn't alignment indicative.
And furthermore, as raynpelikoneet demonstrated, there are so many more reasons that marvellosity would be night killed instead of raynpelikoneet that don't even include reads. Of course, raynpelikoneet assumed that the mafia team is smart  but a stupid mafia team would have several of the same reasons and some different reasons.
If you really want to take the night kill and make a read based on it, I feel that reading coolTLname as town would be the most likely, but this is still a very flawed approach. Very, very flawed.
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On October 03 2015 16:23 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 16:18 Trfel wrote:On October 03 2015 16:15 Rels wrote:
lol
I agree that it's a bus and it's weird, actually that's why I switched off him last night. But I'm pretty sure he said several times now he wouldn't bother coming back, and if that's the case your argument is flawed
wait a minute I will quote some things No, my argument isn't flawed, he would have quit much, much, much, much earlier if he were mafia. He wouldn't have stuck through all of those arguments with raynpelikoneet. My argument is strong. Last game I was mafia with Damdred and fidei. We bus Damdred D2, everybody was voting for him; he still showed up to make us fight for his lynch. That way, town felt we had accomplished something (mostly I, cause I pushed him hard), and I was townread by everybody. So I dont' think this "he's still showing up" argument is valid That's Damdred.
This is coolTLname, not Damdred. He's almost certainly quite frustrated with this game (do you really think he could go so far as to fake that?), and I don't see him adding to the thread WIFOM at all. He even voted for himself instead of voting for someone else. If he were mafia he would at least make random pushes on people for WIFOM reasons, at least that is what his scumbuddies would tell him to do if he was willing to keep playing despite being bussed.
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On October 03 2015 16:36 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 16:30 Trfel wrote:On October 03 2015 16:23 Rels wrote:On October 03 2015 16:18 Trfel wrote:On October 03 2015 16:15 Rels wrote:
lol
I agree that it's a bus and it's weird, actually that's why I switched off him last night. But I'm pretty sure he said several times now he wouldn't bother coming back, and if that's the case your argument is flawed
wait a minute I will quote some things No, my argument isn't flawed, he would have quit much, much, much, much earlier if he were mafia. He wouldn't have stuck through all of those arguments with raynpelikoneet. My argument is strong. Last game I was mafia with Damdred and fidei. We bus Damdred D2, everybody was voting for him; he still showed up to make us fight for his lynch. That way, town felt we had accomplished something (mostly I, cause I pushed him hard), and I was townread by everybody. So I dont' think this "he's still showing up" argument is valid That's Damdred. This is coolTLname, not Damdred. He's almost certainly quite frustrated with this game (do you really think he could go so far as to fake that?), and I don't see him adding to the thread WIFOM at all. He even voted for himself instead of voting for someone else. If he were mafia he would at least make random pushes on people for WIFOM reasons, at least that is what his scumbuddies would tell him to do if he was willing to keep playing despite being bussed. He's voting for GB. And he tried to ninja vote scott at the last second D1. Only after attempting to vote for himself and then learning that self-votes are not allowed in this game.....
Can I ask you to just trust me on this one? If I'm completely wrong, well 99% of the time coolTLname gets lynched here anyway. At least having a second push makes things more interesting and means that people might actually play the game.
I could go through and explain why I think that coolTLname is town, and I think I'd probably be able to convince you, but then I don't think I'd be able to read through anyone else's filter. And I'd rather find mafia because that's the point of the game.
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On October 03 2015 16:44 Rels wrote:
are you caught up yet ? Not close XD
Sorry lol
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Ugh, I don't know what I should do 
Even if I had a scumread, I don't want to nor am I capable of out yelling raynpelikoneet.
Maybe I get a scumread and make rsoultin yell at raynpelikoneet for me? That could work XD
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Rels, your "lurker reader" scumread of coolTLname as I understand it is flawed.
As for in the current game, town can often be present without posting. I do it sometimes as town, that's sort of what I've been doing for the past 24 hours ish. I can't possibly be the only person to do this as town. Palmar does a similar thing, except he openly admits to searching the entire thread for "Palmar" just to see if he's being discussed, and then posts that he did that. but the general principle of knowing that the thread exists and paying some attention but not really posting is there.
As for coolTLname having read previous games of mafia on TL Mafia, I guarantee you that this is false. First, people just... don't do that. If they did, they would at least sign up for the Obs QT. But they basically just don't. Scott31337 is probably the only player I know of who actually did this, and you can see what his play looks like, it's nothing like coolTLname's play here. Second, every post that you mentioned as indicating that coolTLname has more experience on TL Mafia than he claims has a very reasonable explanation. For example, when he says that being under suspicion by GlowingBear isn't really being under suspicion, note that he's been scumreading GlowingBear the entire game (of course he's not under suspicion of the person being suspicious of him is mafia...), and I believe that somewhere around the time he said this quote there was a small sort of push on GlowingBear. Or at least, suspicions were voiced in the thread.
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Okay, I'll go with LightningStrike being town.
In other news, Rels seems to have died And just when I was catching up, too....
Okay, filter time.
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On October 03 2015 17:42 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2015 17:08 Trfel wrote:
Rels, your "lurker reader" scumread of coolTLname as I understand it is flawed.
As for in the current game, town can often be present without posting. I do it sometimes as town, that's sort of what I've been doing for the past 24 hours ish. I can't possibly be the only person to do this as town. Palmar does a similar thing, except he openly admits to searching the entire thread for "Palmar" just to see if he's being discussed, and then posts that he did that. but the general principle of knowing that the thread exists and paying some attention but not really posting is there.
As for coolTLname having read previous games of mafia on TL Mafia, I guarantee you that this is false. First, people just... don't do that. If they did, they would at least sign up for the Obs QT. But they basically just don't. Scott31337 is probably the only player I know of who actually did this, and you can see what his play looks like, it's nothing like coolTLname's play here. Second, every post that you mentioned as indicating that coolTLname has more experience on TL Mafia than he claims has a very reasonable explanation. For example, when he says that being under suspicion by GlowingBear isn't really being under suspicion, note that he's been scumreading GlowingBear the entire game (of course he's not under suspicion of the person being suspicious of him is mafia...), and I believe that somewhere around the time he said this quote there was a small sort of push on GlowingBear. Or at least, suspicions were voiced in the thread. I initially had the same reaction than you about that. But read these posts and tell me he doesn't mean he knows some of the people playing, especially the second one: + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2015 02:24 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 16:47 coolTLname wrote:
So i noticed mafia can hold their KP, this makes claiming Roleblock and framing someone possible, as well as fake vet claims. Anyway i propose anyone who claims a blue role to be lynched automatically, if there is no kill , better to leave it in the dark?
Can medics heal themselves? OK this question has to come from a newbie. The medic one. But coolTLname has slipped two times he knew the people playing: Show nested quote +On September 30 2015 05:57 coolTLname wrote:
being accused by you and GB is hardly being under suspicion Implying there are more experienced players in the game than GB and I. And that is the case: marv, rayn, rsoultin ... Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 04:04 coolTLname wrote:On October 02 2015 04:01 GlowingBear wrote:On October 02 2015 03:56 coolTLname wrote:On October 01 2015 18:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
... furthermore if he read the voting thread, he is jsut blantantly lying.
There was NEVER ever time when coolname/scott/rsoultin were "main lynch targets". this is just a lie, rayn isn't reading thread, im sure u all remember when rsoultin and trfel had 4 votes a piece. On October 01 2015 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Like i know LS is not the most logical guy, but he gets his stuff somewhere, everyone does. What he says doesn't make any sense. The conclusion definitely did not come from reading the voting thread, that is 100% obvious. If he had skimmed the thread he would know that (1) GB is actually one of the main lynch targets, (2) rsoultin is not, (3) coolTLname is being voted BECAUSE scott claimed. Somehow he conveniently misses those KEY things that lead to the situation we were at the time. I can't see this being possible unless you are like the most unfortunate person on the planet when you skim through the thread. i was not voted because scott claimed, he claimed at the last minute after i had already a lot of votes - 7. GB never had more votes than rsoultin, by the way. On October 01 2015 19:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:mmm like here is why this coolnamedude is scum; 1) says he wants to be lynched over scott -> tries to vote for scott 2) says i am mafia for things that do not make me mafia, calls me a liar -> either just straight out lying or didn't read the thread.. but -> says people who do not read the thread are mafia..  3) calls me/you mafia because we are "cluttering the thread for posting so much" -> says rsoultin is town because she has the biggest filter in the game (yes that is literally his only reason he has managed to ACTUALLY provide). My votes did not even count because i posted them too late, and i've posted much more reasons for why rsoultin is town, the biggest being that she did not vote up Trfel when the votes were tied, stating him as town and just accepting her own lynch. On October 01 2015 12:47 coolTLname wrote:On October 01 2015 12:42 Trfel wrote:
I could also probably lynch coolTLname for voting at End of Day and then not posting until 39 minutes later. And then saying that he wanted to get lynched after voting for survival. Like i said earlier, i was busy. To be elaborate i had a therapy session with my dad during the last hour of the game. I actually checked during the session and it seemed clear i would be lynched , until scott revealed at the last minute. I didn't really know what the votes or anything that was going on , but scott seemed suspicious enough to me so i tried to mobile vote him. Unfortunately i was lagging and i cant text for shit, which made my votes not even count, because i missed the deadline, btw. I've caught rayn not really knowing what happening in the thread multiple times now. Not reading the thread doesn't make him mafia Glowing bear u should know better of all people, why would u even say this ? It is quite ridiculous, we all know mafia does not read the thread. Why would a townie not read the thread? Implying he knows GB is known for not reading the thread, something even I, who is not a newbie anymore, was not aware of. So he knows who some of the players are. And he isn't a smurf, as confirmed by rsoultin and LS. So that means he is a lurker reader: someone who has read some games here, but doesn't post or play. That would explain how he knows things about GB, me, and the players more experiences than the both of us. So if he is a lurker reader, he should know than medic cannot heal themselves. This question is an attempt at appearing newbie so mistakes can be excused. coolTLname is mafia. Of course he'll explain it afterwards. Every scum explains their slips afterwards. Doesn't mean we cannot analyze what they previously said. The first quote you quoted is actually the one that I explained in my post.
The second one, if you read it as is, would actually also reveal that coolTLname knows that GlowingBear is town (despite scumreading him). But as a general rule (not all the time, but in general), scumslips are stupid. Furthermore, I don't think that GlowingBear is known for not reading the thread. It seems to me that the most likely explanation is that coolTLname is under the impression that GlowingBear has made reading errors this game and therefore GlowingBear has to accept coolTLname's point of view (that or claim mafia, which coolTLname is presuming that GlowingBear won't do).
Either way, I don't think it's a good idea to pay attention to scumslips. It's just more distracting than it's worth, I think.
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Oh, and yes I am caught up, I meant to add
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Rels, you seem to be more motivated than I am. Can you do a favor for me?
Can you look up some of The Shining's town and mafia games and find out how he addresses his scumreads? In his entire case on MoosyDoosy in one of his first few posts, he writes as if he's talking to MoosyDoosy alone. But he's not asking questions. Why should town be trying to convince their scumread that they are scum? I don't remember The Shining doing this before.....
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On October 03 2015 17:58 Trfel wrote:
Rels, you seem to be more motivated than I am. Can you do a favor for me?
Can you look up some of The Shining's town and mafia games and find out how he addresses his scumreads? In his entire case on MoosyDoosy in one of his first few posts, he writes as if he's talking to MoosyDoosy alone. But he's not asking questions. Why should town be trying to convince their scumread that they are scum? I don't remember The Shining doing this before..... Ok, I did it myself (rushed through it, anyway). At a glance, this meta read seems accurate. I'll check more later, but I'm quite happy about this.
Except now I almost wish I'd saved it for another time....
This is in agreement with the suspicious things I'm noticing in The Shining's filter.
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On October 03 2015 18:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Can you link the games you checked? Well I spent about two minutes doing my check, but I checked his only mafia game and his latest town game, according to the database. Again, I'll do a more detailed check later.
I'm not going to scumread him or townread him purely because of this meta, I'd rather base my read off of his play. But this does help.
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On October 03 2015 18:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
idk, his scumgame seems super different from this game. I'd sure hope so, he basically wasn't able to play that game at all due to being busy the entire time. His play was just activity excuses, which he said were all true after the game and in the QT. There isn't really much scum meta to rely on for him.
His filter is quite scummy, I think, his read progression doesn't line up. For example, it seems to me that his Day 1 scumread of coolTLname is sort of pulled out of thin air (he seems to be stressing things and awkwardly joining the wagon but being sure to make his own reasons for it). And he completely drops his earlier case on MoosyDoosy, no reference to it at all, even going so far as to say that his view on something was the same on MoosyDoosy's (but no stance on MoosyDoosy...).
And The Shining seems to show a distinct lack of knowledge for LightningStrike's play, and since they've played several games together I'm pretty sure, I don't think that The Shining's early scumread on LightningStrike is very believable.
Anyway, I should probably shut up until I finish, I guess.
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Rels, I'm sorry, I honestly have no clue. I don't think it's good to go through all of MoosyDoosy's filter and try to piece together what he was trying to say, that should be his job. Plus if he is mafia and this would catch him, you might find a more reasonable explanation than what he actually did. Why don't we just wait for him to explain what he was saying when he gets back?
As for if it's mafia indicative, I don't feel like he would reach for a scumread when there's no incentive for doing so and it can be clearly shown that he's wrong. Though honestly I had some trouble following your post, I've been reading this game very quickly and not to the level of detail that I would have hoped for. I'll check it again when I finish with this The Shining thing, I'm pretty excited about that honestly.
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