Newbie Student Mafia XIV: Firefly - Page 2

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 14:54 GMT

#904

On September 06 2015 23:48 scott31337 wrote:
I could lynch boxer but it feels like policy really.

Yeah he's policy, I think Cake is better lynch.

Fidei, I get the stream of conscious argument but that's why I asked her to clarify all that. Then I get the response I got in 817.

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 15:02 GMT

#905

On September 06 2015 23:48 scott31337 wrote:
I could lynch boxer but it feels like policy really.

You wanted to lynch n00bking - do you still feel the same?

Also you didn't like superbia's questioning and you said Cake's posts were really bad, so how does that all weigh into your vote?

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 15:09 GMT

#906

On September 06 2015 15:13 n00bKing wrote:
Reading Scott's filter was fun btw, as relates to me. He seems to mention again every couple of posts that he feels I should be the lynch, but has never once articulated why. The closest thing you ever get from him to a "case" on his lynch target is that he thinks my posts are "bad." That's all you get. He then randomly places his vote on me, without explanation. In fact, the post where he votes against me is exclusively about other players. There is nothing at all in it that is about me, except for the unexplained vote.

Later we get "D1 lynches right now are GB and N00bking and voting n00bking" but still no explanation (not even a half-assed one) for how it would make any sense to make n00bKing the Day 1 lynch.

And then "I want GB or n00bking lynches though." Still no explanation for why he might want a n00bKing lynch.

And then "Who are your top three scumteam? Right now for me it's GB/N00bking/Boxerfred but that's too easy" and yet again, still not even an ATTEMPT to tell anyone why he might think n00bKing could be on the scum team.

But best of all is this list:

Show nested quote +

All 13 players are there. And there are only TWO of them that he has no notes for. One is himself. It just says "town." He has no notes on that player. No comments. No analysis. No nothing. And that makes sense. If he wants us to think he's playing from a Town perspective, then that one word is all he needs to have on that player. The other person he has one word and NO notes for is THE PLAYER HE'S VOTING AGAINST. No notes. No comments. No analysis. No nothing. Just parks his vote there and then proceeds to talk in detail about anything and everything BUT his lynch target. That's the one thing that always just gets glossed over quickly, and that you never get any detail about.

I observed Newbie 12 and looked him up in the database as well. I agree his thoughts are disjointed but he's done it as town. I recall in Newbie 12 he had a list post which was just as terse explanation, he had an afk vote there, and 13 he was forced to prematurely claim cop because of his gameplay.

Scott could be mafia but what you describe is not exclusive to mafia. For him anyway. If we have a cop and he gets redchecked or gets caught out at EoD voting or something more indicative, that's one thing but it would appear his gameplay is just not that obvious town in general.

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 15:35 GMT

#911

Alakaslam, can you explain why you dropped the Breshke scumread and your vote on him for seemingly zero reason?

You didn't tinfoil vote him so I don't think you can tinfoil unvote him if I am making any sense.

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 15:43 GMT

#912

On September 07 2015 00:35 Fidei86 wrote:
I just re-read 817 NM, what were your thoughts on it? I don't think that "that's just how I play" is ever a good excuse for scummy play. But then again, like I said before, I don't see any particular reason to scum read her for her play. I admit that I might be biased because I've played voice Mafia with cake and she seemed very nice. But in those games she was always town and she got scum read a lot. Her responses in this game have reminded me a lot of how she played then too.

So, yeah, I won't vote to lynch her today. I'm going to go back to Slam's filter again. You said he plays with a lot of filler always - I need to try and find some of his substantive posts to really wrestle with.

That's the thing though, you basically answered my question. That was a pretty bad answer like she didn't want to respond. I know the case was made for her being non native, so I am reading around that and trying to give her a chance to explain how gb is scummy - at least alakaslam is explaining that gb isn't thinking for himself, which explains a mafia motivation/action, whether that's founded or not is a different issue.

I said to her I had trouble understanding why she's voting people or scumreading people for things that reflect town actions. I outlined that in a previous post -

On September 06 2015 06:59 NocturneMage wrote:
Going through Copcake's filter as one of the issues requested - some leans I see from both alignments.

mafia - the reads on glowingbear make zero sense. First she asks him how is rayn mafia then there's zero to little follow up on gb until her list post. But there her read still doesn't make sense - if gb doesn't care whether he dies or not shouldn't that make him town? the mafia need to try and survive, at least that's what gb (lol) told me in the mafia qt from my last newbie game. Anyways, also expanding on the useless details might help here - because I saw where he returned a rebuttal on rayn's read on breshke - didn't think that was useless for example.

- also post 611 on moosydoosy - if moosydoosy is paying too much attention to her isn't that a towntell if he's pushing her? Or at least not alignment if he has to defend himself? I read around that post and I don't see how moosy is being "antagonistic".

- read on slam - alright I don't know either of her or slam so I will ignore meta. But to say that slam is town for not being antagonistic like moosy or n00bking - this is not exclusive to mafia, I just got done finishing observing the personality game and Mr. Nice Guy in Judge Judy carried mafia.

Basically this read is a bad reason to read Slam town, I am finding most of his posting nonsensical at best but for the reasons you specified it's a poor reason

Those are scumtells, admittedly your read on moosy and you pushing him is a town action, so I'm going to say a null to scum lean on you for now.

Also since you mentioned it what do you mean by pocketing? I'm sure I've heard it in my only other game but I forget the meanting now.

I haven't played voice mafia, so I can't really comment on that. I have nothing to go on except the way she presents herself here. And I tell you the same thing I am telling rayn, I don't really want to rely on metareads from other people.

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 20:32 GMT

#1012

On September 07 2015 03:18 CopCake wrote:
How are my reads "bad" ?

I don't get that part

I'm back but briefly, I have to run for half an hour but I will return soon.

Cake, I outlined the specific problems I had with your reads, namely (to be concise - I put in bulletpoints for each read) why you are scumreading people for towny actions. I asked you twice to explain over how those things were scummy and you failed to do it.

In general I do not understand the case against gb, Slam's posts on him are a bit disjointed (lack of original thought) but at least I can try and verify that, Cake's points against him don't make sense from a town perspective.

Yamato appears to want to lynch him and I don't understand why.

On September 07 2015 01:40 Fidei86 wrote:
@n00bking

What the hell are you talking about? Information on a BF lynch? The dude has made like two posts, and the only people who have said anything are Scott and Cake. This is just such a bad argument, I don't even know where to begin. I was pretty sure you're town, but you keep digging yourself deeper and it's getting harder and harder to keep town reading you.

All that sort of contradicts with my view that we should lynch BF. Policy and posting are two totally valid reasons to lynch him imo. "Information" just isn't.

Also agree with this post in passing. if everyone votes him, or policy votes him, you really don't get a load of information, from what I've read you only get information from contested lynches.

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 20:34 GMT

#1015

On September 07 2015 05:18 Alakaslam wrote:

Show nested quote +

Back for a bit :D

Yes. I was crafting a n insane theory late at night, after going to sleep and looking at it the next day, I concluded I was in a loony tunnel and dropped it immediately.

.........

What in your thought process made you back track on him? You are reading as if you are so sure Breshke was your lynch.

I am specifically asking what got you out of your tunnel.

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 20:43 GMT

#1030

Fidei (or James if you prefer) are you not voting n00bking because of boxerfred saying the wagons are okay - which in a way is association or maybe disassociation - or because you actually think n00bking's play is/has been town?

I see where you've gone back and forth on him and why you are voting boxerfred but there was one line in that boxerfred return post that makes me question whether it could really come from mafia.

On September 07 2015 01:05 boxerfred wrote:
I think the best thing for me to do right now is to try to appear townie and pretty much try to not get policy lynched. As far as I've read, n00bKing appears to not contribute a thing, asking questions that are not related to anything important or even useful. Feels like a lot of fluff to appear active.

Skimming through CopCake's filter, I just see some hard to read posts and pressure on n00bKing, not too much evidence being brought up, just a vote. Nothing substantial although it feels like there's a high grade of activity (his filter is like 10% of the overall game by now) and she's also trying to argue and explain - so I probably wouldn't give it a scum lean.

However I'll take some more time and try to catch up, I'll probably be around EoD. No guarantee on that though, I'm tired as fuck and also ill, chilling with my laptop in my awesome bed.

I also want to say something about rayn: I shadowed him in one of the last games where he was town. He told me quite a lot about how he plays as town and there are some points that he told me that really hit this game: 1. he said he sucked at convincing people, and 2. he said he'd sometimes get really mad about other people. I think rayn is town.

The bolded is the VERY FIRST thing he says in his passage. Do you REALLY think mafia - any mafia - would put that up front? I can see why you think the rest of the return is scummy but I don't know why mafia would openly state they want to survive. Like that anyway.

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 20:48 GMT

#1039

On September 07 2015 05:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Last mafia is probably NocturneMage.
He intentionally avoids talking about anything brought up on noobking.

Wrong on both counts. If you read my filter, you'll see where I comment on his filter and specific posts I point out that I think could come from both alignments.

There is plenty of scummy behaviour on n00b but the main reason I'm not voting n00bking is that I think Cake is the better lynch. I've already stated why.

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 20:56 GMT

#1059

On September 07 2015 05:50 Superbia wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 07 2015 05:36 GlowingBear wrote:
Superbia, I'm home but I'm not feeling well, so I'm not going to format it well so I can take a quick nap quicker:

On September 05 2015 09:15 scott31337 wrote:

On September 05 2015 08:29 Breshke wrote:

On September 05 2015 08:20 CopCake wrote:
In which page the game started?

9

@rayn. I just think your expectations are too high too early like yes I get you want people to play seriously but that is difficult from the get go especially for some people and i would imagine it would lead to the game kind of fizziling out early because WTF are people going to be talking about. That coupled with the fact that you asked for a blue claim so we could lynch GB IN A NEWBIE GAME is just wrong. I get none of the "newbies" are that new but did you really think the optimal play was for someone to claim a blue role.

I can understand that you want people to play seriously but I don't understand asking a blue role to claim The scenarios you suggested after someone claims are jsut as bad because any claim outside of the vigi setup is a doc, cop or JK which will just get RB'd to eternity and poof you've lost your power role on D1. Even if GB flipped scum it would hardly be worth it.

On September 05 2015 08:29 Breshke wrote:

On September 05 2015 08:20 CopCake wrote:
In which page the game started?

A quote and so much talk from Breshke day 1 makes me wonder if he wants to try to change his ways - which for a D1 - townlean.

More Breshke walls of text -

GB smoking/drinking again - and follow his opposite

On September 05 2015 08:23 GlowingBear wrote:

On September 05 2015 08:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:

On September 05 2015 08:12 Superbia wrote:
Do you really think GB is mafia here?

I don't care i stopped reading his posts.
I hope a vigilante shoots him.

Ok, you're mafia

##Vote: Rayn

Re-read Supers post here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24820236- + Show Spoiler +

On September 05 2015 08:33 Superbia wrote:
I'm about to head off. Won't be around tomorrow until around this time. Some incoherent thoughts (pretty tired).

Think rayn's response to GB's claim is over the top. I don't think there is any need for any blue to out at the moment. Pretty sure we can get productive d1 going without any blue shenanigans. Actually kinda makes me dislike rayn, but I had townie vibes from him early on so whatever. Also he just called me town so I'm fine with him being town for now.

Curious to see what comes off rayn/yamato co-op stuff.

Initially disliked yamato's opening. After what rayn just said it's okay for now. Interested in rayn's follow up opinion.

Don't really like moosy I think. Especially the purposely random typing (different from pre-game). Also can't really find a reasoning behind his posts yet (might be bc I'm tired).

Dislike breshke who feels bitter in his latest post (mafia trait imo). Feels weird to see him admit to scummy-esque things. IDK what he's doing as either alignment. Have to see later.

GB is idk. Don't really care about the (fake) claim that much tbh.

Rest also IDK.

So yeah. Follow rayn for now probably. Don't claim blue though. No matter what he says. I'll see where you guys are at tomorrow.

Good information but I'm already blitzed.

N00bking's posts bad like last game.
He's my worst right now.

Rayn town
Yamato doing shit - town

This post may appear contributive at first glance but it's basically a summary of the thread at that point and reads accordingly to thread sentiment, bringing nothing new to the table. Why is Rayn town, why he is so quick to give yamato a townread like that? Why just saying I'm "drinking" again, discrediting me? It's a bunch of rehash with an attempt of looking contributive without actually contributing.

He then starts to post reads accordingly to his progression on the pages of thread, cluttering the thread with partial and outdated information he keeps further reevaluating instead of just giving his opinion on one big post. My problem with this is that he is again trying to look contributive while not actually being contributive. Worse. He is cluttering the thread just to show "look, I'm doing stuff!" instead of interacting and actually search for Mafia.

He is very bold when he gives reads. Calls Nocturne "town" with no back reqsoning when he was suspicious of mage's slot. He gives 3 names of people he thinks are Mafia and he could lynch (sayinf maybe I'm not Mafia an cake is) but posts this:

On September 06 2015 23:48 scott31337 wrote:
I could lynch boxer but it feels like policy really.

For someone who has 3-4 scumreads, this is extremely scummy. Why is he okay with boxer's lynch if he has THREE better targets and he even ADMITS boxer is only a policy?

I see no better lynch.

People's opinions on this?

First half is weak - I already explained why. Scott seems to have a habit (from having read/observed past games, namely the last couple of newbies, where he's exhibited similar bheaviour as town. List posts aren't well explained, the explanations aren't thought out. He could be mafia but it's not for this.

So I pushed for more information. The second half where scott is feeling boxerfred lynch, made me go back through his filter to see where he was on his scumreads. That one-liner is scummy when he had sttronger scumreads.

I put out questions to Scott on where he stood on people because of that. He talks about gb but considering I'm not convinced on any of the cases on gb, I am curious to hear from him why.

yamato is saying he doesn't agree with gb's posting but unless I missed it I want to see specifics because nothing is jumpting out at me now.

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 21:00 GMT

#1067

On September 07 2015 05:55 yamato77 wrote:
Scum GB does not necessarily make sense. His reads do not mean anything. He even has this little contrived idea of scumreading one town and one mafia, and townreading one town and one mafia. Reading him based on thread flow is bad.

He is, however, effectively opting out of any serious lynch discussion and seems absolutely content with the lynch going through while his vote goes elsewhere. His motivations? Perhaps to distance himself from the lynch and appear to have his own ideas. As town I think GB would be more vocal about a realistic lynch choice.

Alright. Ignoring the meta, this is something I can work with. I need to afk but when I return I'll pick right back up on this.

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 21:01 GMT

#1071

On September 07 2015 05:58 Superbia wrote:
I think GB's view on scott is pretty okay.

I think the second point on his case is valid, first half is weak since the behaviour isn't exclusively mafia.

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 21:50 GMT

#1153

I am back. Going through n00bking and gb's filters now.

On September 07 2015 06:47 Superbia wrote:
Oh yeah. Opinions on noobking/glowingbear/copcake please pre-flip. From everyone.

Noobking- Mafia
Glowingbear- Neutral (town-lean before but yamato/rayn buttfucking town-lean)
Copcake- No idea.

n00bking - scumlean based on last posts (prior to me afking)
gb - no strong read prior to yamato's comment - re-evaluating now
copcake - mafia

NocturneMage

United Kingdom1965 Posts

September 06 2015 22:18 GMT

#1223

Just finished reading GB's filter. The "scummy lurker" argument makes sense and I know Scott did give a reason for calling me town (gb said otherwise) - he quoted a post that he felt was towny, and that was the explanation I felt. Also he's saying he "could" lynch boxer. I still threw the questions at Scott in case he was wavering.

That said yamato's argument for him not voting either wagon makes sense, but gb IS saying the copcake wagon is bad because he's not seeing scum. He engages n00b early on and he seems to give him a pass based on his effort. He should have done some followup though. Slight scum lean.