On August 28 2015 00:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Marv is more mafia for calling me mafia. #omgus A player with good analytical skills like that is hinging on a tone / old meta read and I don't think I've played a game as scum with him in it before. And I'm like his top scumread besides JAT, who he was waffling on superhard before. I don't get it.

Come at me bro.

Stuff from this game (some of which i already mentioned, dunno why everyone keeps boiling it down to meta)

1.

VE is def town because he is withholding information. As odd as that sounds, I'd think mafia would be more self-conscious about coming out early in the day and claiming to have some reads but refuse to give them until an unspecified later time.

I think this is bogus and made up. I wasn't the only one who commentedthi s makes no sense. Such a strong townread "def town" is not warranted, especially not based on this reasoning

2.

Palmar and Marv are both probably town, I'll figure it out later. Palmar more town than Marv because he likes Rsoultin as town.

Explained this before. Cheesecake was catching up on the game and simply calls Palmar town for calling rsoultin town. Again, this is not a good reason for a townread. Along with 1, this is basically giving townreads and then making poor post-hoc justifications.

Further, and importantly, Cheesecake in his catchup (of the not very long thread at that point) managed to miss all the posts that me and Palmar shared about Palmar's reasons for townreading rsoultin.

So this gives the impression that CC is looking to give reads, but is actually merely skimming and missing important information (despite how the posts look)

3.
(a lot of nothing posts in between) The case on Wave. VE made a valid point how it read overly certain

This post makes Wave scum. Specifically, the text in bold. Wave comes back to the thread to see the popular scum-candidate JAT sitting on a wagon driven by Palmar. His read takes no consideration for JAT's actions this game. In fact, he says he respects Palmar's play enough on day 1 to sheep him without regard.

Wave claims that he has gained some confidence in his play. If wave truly has gained confidence in his play (I.E. reads), then why is he letting Palmar, who may very well be mafia or just plain wrong about JAT, decide the lynch for him? Wave is blindly assuming that Palmar is town and correct without A) Assessing the lynch candidates motivations / actions and B) Looking at Palmar's push in and of itself. He doesn't even quote a post by Palmar and agree with the reasons.

This does not necessarily make a player mafia, certainly not with the tone CC presented it in. Essentially this passage comes down to saying Wave is sheeping Palmar lazily, therefore Wave is mafia. But that doesn't have to be true at all. But it *IS* very easy to present that sort of conclusion as mafia when making a case on someone else.

It's essentially lynching for outwardly suboptimal play, which can be applied to plenty of players tbh. Why this one case here? meh. It's also a very cleanly presented case. This doesn't make a player mafia necessarily, but it's definitely not townie, not coming from a player with a history of clean cases as mafia and more all over the place as town.

Alternative explanation from marv: Wave respects Palmar's d1 reads (i think this can be shown to be true over the course of many games), Wave reads Palmar as town (i think this is clear from his filter in general), Wave sheeps a player who looks town, has good d1 reads, is pushing the same target as another super-town (rsoultin) and jat has/hadn't done anything townie. Is that so hard/unreasonable to consider?

I would say on the flipside, that I do like CC's approach to jat on p3 of his filter.

So no, CC doesn't have to be mafia. But there are things that suggest he might be, and sure the meta may be old, but he is still the same person after all.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 16:15 GMT

#1362

that's my one long post of the game, savour it

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 16:18 GMT

#1364

On August 28 2015 01:17 Palmar wrote:
also one of your scummiest

it really isn't

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 16:19 GMT

#1366

On August 28 2015 01:18 WaveofShadow wrote:

Show nested quote +

also marv when you read me like that how is it you never get me lynched

well, the 2 games i particularly remember calling you mafia in, i died the night after i started doing so

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 16:22 GMT

#1370

yeah. i don't catch you, you keep me alive (e.g. les mis)
i do, you kill me

ez game ez life

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 16:22 GMT

#1371

On August 28 2015 01:21 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I still want to resolve JAT/Trfel. I feel that one is a scum wagon and one is a town. Highly unlikely it's both town or both mafia.

why

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 16:23 GMT

#1373

that wasn't quite the answer i was looking for

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 16:24 GMT

#1376

no, it's a shit answer.

explain why you said what you said

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 16:25 GMT

#1379

like specifically, what is it about their interactions or the interactions of others with them (and WHO in this case) that makes you feel town-town is "highly unlikely"

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 16:29 GMT

#1387

On August 28 2015 01:26 MoosyDoosy wrote:

Show nested quote +

idk it's just a feeling. look at the wagons and how people are reading the two. if we lynch one or the other, it's a potshot and splits the list making it easier to read.

well yes. but that's just the same as saying lynching someone who has been a central focus of attention gives a lot of information, which is obviously true.

to be clear: i do not think you are mafia for saying what you said. but people say that sort of thing all the time, and

1) it is often just wrong
2) there is often no basis behind it at all (as appears to be the case here)

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 16:56 GMT

#1394

very valid shenanny lynch

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 19:49 GMT

#1531

On August 28 2015 02:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
It's a shame I don't have more hard-town reads. Would make this game much easier. I want to believe both Palmar and Marv are town, but Marv is insisting that I am mafia and hasn't done anything remarkable outside of being largely active. His logic on me is not bad, but it is wrong. I'm flipflopping on Wave. Moosy seems pretty townie and is oddly enough one of my only townreads. JAT is actually trying now which makes me happy, but I wish it came earlier in the day. VE? Trfel? Kels? Could go either way still. I just want people to die, flip, and then reevaluate. I will say this about Rsoultin: for someone who has quantitatively posted a lot, I can't remember much of what she's said other than kill JAT and some stuff about me. She is probably just town, and I'm willing to go with that for a few days.

yeah your posting kinda seems ok around this post. hrmph

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 19:57 GMT

#1545

On August 18 2015 04:52 Hopeless1der wrote:
/in
I'll actually play this time.

liar liar

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

August 27 2015 20:00 GMT

#1551

not really sure i do either tbh, wave.

been silently reading filters. no idea what to make of deconduo's. Vivax's filter is really uninspired but i'm not convinced that makes him mafia. hopeless... just unbelievable, quite ballsy as mafia but maybe he would. would bf really be this blatant?

about to sit down for dinner in a few mins. too many qs, not enough answers