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TL Mafia Ban List 3.0 - Page 43

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
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Message Blazinghand if you request a ban please ^_^
Also when the game you're sitting out is over!
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 08 2016 03:13 GMT
#841
On May 06 2016 07:32 Damdred wrote:
I liked spike andbwish things had worked out differently


+1
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
May 08 2016 03:22 GMT
#842
If anybody is wondering I am being quiet because my mommy told me not to speak bad of the dead. RIP
I had a good night of sleep.
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
May 11 2016 22:02 GMT
#843
On May 05 2016 02:47 Coagulation wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2016 02:03 nnn_thekushmountains wrote:
what is a 5 game warning?


probably a warning that stays on record for 5 games or some equally asinine statistic that assumes (A) people hosting are idiots that dont pay attention to who is joining games and (B) banninghand has nothing better to do than moderate a glorified butt hurt list.




wow coag is really dedicated to this
how many years has it been now
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
May 11 2016 22:06 GMT
#844
On April 21 2016 16:58 DarthPunk wrote:
Being an arsehole is just a part of the culture that was established here. The newbies learn by emulating the established players, who are assholes, and the cycle repeats itself.

If I recall correctly part of the reason that Blazinghand started the Community Thread was to interact with one another outside of mafia so that people could come to the realization that this behavior is just a part of the game.

Mafia is dying here because SC2 is dying basically. There is no doubt in my mind that there is a strong correlation between peak mafia years and the popularity of SC2.

All the people who joined as students ~2010 have jobs and real life commitments now which are not conducive to playing mafia. So we moved on and their are fewer freshers to replace us.

Perhaps the TL staff took too long in giving mafia a fighting chance to acquire new blood through their other sites. Maybe now they have done something about it there will be new growth, maybe not.

I do Know that the time I spent as a part of this community was really special to me. Even if we were all assholes. :D Which is why I keep checking in even though I will probably never play again.

"It's the torso" "only more so!"
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-20 16:16:17
May 19 2016 21:09 GMT
#845
Requesting a one game warning for alakaslam (led to his own Lynch etc did not self vote but did play against win conditions ) and for Fazer for playing against their win conditions and self voting and not meeting activity requirements.

Sandroba was replacing thawn in a rough situation and just did not play. Drp did contact me and explained his situation and it took me longer than normal to find a replacement in Sandroba. I would like a warning for both but no ban.

I don't think a ban is necessary in either case and will not ask for a ban.

Rayn sat out a wonderful normal game also.
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-20 06:36:14
May 20 2016 06:34 GMT
#846
On May 20 2016 06:09 Damdred wrote:
Requesting a one game warning for alakaslam and for Fazer for playing against their win conditions and self voting.

I don't think a ban is necessary in either case and will not ask for a ban.

Rayn sat out a wonderful normal game also.

1. I have explained my rationale
2. I did not vote for myself.

I stand by the KNOWABLE FACT that I could not have been a positive force for town unlynched.

I am known to be a wild card. If I had made it to Lylo, there is no way I would not have been lynched before JAT. Beyond that, anyone else in that game who would have been scum could have simply said that I somehow avoided being lynched by being slam and therefore must be scum because I hard defended palmar.

My play was optimal given what I believed and my utter confusion with the game and disgust with the inactive town. I kept myself out of Lylo.

I complain here solely for the sake of my honor.
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
May 20 2016 07:37 GMT
#847
Damdred i am a bit puzzled in why you are requesting a ban for self-voting when you yourself allowed self-voting in the game? Is it anti-town? Yes. Against the rules? No. In a same manner you could request a ban to Palmar and sandroba for playing a terrible scumgame. Or to all the townies in LYLO for not posting at all for the first 46 hours or so...
table for two on a tv tray
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
May 20 2016 07:48 GMT
#848
I have not read a single post in that game but Slam self voting probably made him town.
I had a good night of sleep.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-20 07:51:34
May 20 2016 07:50 GMT
#849
Slam didn't even self-vote. He just didn't resist his lynch because he thought he would be lynched in LYLO anyways in case he was alive.

I mean he basically thought the town is in a better position if they remove a "liability" to the town before LYLO. In this case the liability just happened to be himself.
table for two on a tv tray
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
May 20 2016 08:24 GMT
#850
Town meta for sure.

Somewhere I made a really good meta checklist for slam.
I had a good night of sleep.
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16322 Posts
May 20 2016 12:11 GMT
#851
On May 20 2016 16:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Damdred i am a bit puzzled in why you are requesting a ban for self-voting when you yourself allowed self-voting in the game? Is it anti-town? Yes. Against the rules? No. In a same manner you could request a ban to Palmar and sandroba for playing a terrible scumgame. Or to all the townies in LYLO for not posting at all for the first 46 hours or so...

None if this changes the fact that it was clearly against their wincon and like I said - if actively working towards your own mislynch isn't playing against your wincon then what could possibly be? What is the point of that rule then?

And yeah, you are right. Sandro probably deserves a warning or something too but mostly for inactivity. His play was a disgrace but at least he didn't actively encourage town to kill him.
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16322 Posts
May 20 2016 12:14 GMT
#852
On May 20 2016 16:48 Koshi wrote:
I have not read a single post in that game but Slam self voting probably made him town.

I know but obviously mentioning that meant I had tmi.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
May 20 2016 13:05 GMT
#853
On May 20 2016 21:11 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2016 16:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Damdred i am a bit puzzled in why you are requesting a ban for self-voting when you yourself allowed self-voting in the game? Is it anti-town? Yes. Against the rules? No. In a same manner you could request a ban to Palmar and sandroba for playing a terrible scumgame. Or to all the townies in LYLO for not posting at all for the first 46 hours or so...

None if this changes the fact that it was clearly against their wincon and like I said - if actively working towards your own mislynch isn't playing against your wincon then what could possibly be? What is the point of that rule then?

And yeah, you are right. Sandro probably deserves a warning or something too but mostly for inactivity. His play was a disgrace but at least he didn't actively encourage town to kill him.

I understand the point.

I however do not understand the point that for example self-voting is allowed in a game and then the host seeks ban for a self-voter. What's the point of a self-vote if it is not killing yourself for whatever reason?

I totally get the idea of playing against your wincon and i mostly agree with your view of the situation but it is not so black and white. For example i understand Slam's train of though perfectly fine and while i do not agree with it at all, who is to say what is an "appropriate" solution a player should take to situations (especially emotional ones) and what is not? Hell it's even perfectly possible that you would have won way more easier if Slam (or Fazers) was not lynched the day he was.

People giving up and getting themselves lynched has happened and will happen in the future. I don't really remember a case where that has resulted in a ban or even a warning. The "actively playing against you wincon" is really hard thing to draw a line to. For example i consider people not posting anything game-relevant for 40 first hours in LYLO just as much playing against wincon than what Slam did. I also consider people not addressing arguments against them or answering them with "fuck you i am not gonna talk to you" 's playing as much "against wincon"... Those things happen though, if not every game, at least almost every game.

For this particular situation and people:
- Slam's explanation for his actions is perfectly valid, there is nothing wrong with it.
- Fazers self-vote cannot possibly be considered playing against his wincon in itself because Damdred HAD ALLOWED self-voting in the game. If something is against playing your wincon or against rules why the fuck do you allow it then? It's like saying "cursing in this game is fine" and when someone does it you go on and seek a ban for him because they cursed.... Seems fair? Also the activity argument doesn't really hold water either since Fazers met the activity requirements (even better than certain other players) and there is no rule about how "informative" or "in depth" your posting is supposed to be.

Did they screw over town? Sure they did. Did they break any rules? No.

I mean, one could make an argumet that BH should get a ban from game X because he promoted a D1 random lynch. kitaman's statistics clearly show that TL towns lynch mafia more often on D1 based on educated guessing than a random lynch does. So BH is playing against his wincon if he is town, right? This is actually a logically sound argument, yet imo it sounds just as stupid as the argument on Slam and Fazers...
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-20 13:17:43
May 20 2016 13:12 GMT
#854
As to clearly answer to your question, i consider for example these things playing against your wincon:
- Voting to lynch your green check when there are no info fuck roles for mafia.
- Voting to lynch an uncounterclaimed blue role in LYLO in an open setup when you yourself are vanilla.
- Voting to lynch yourself in LYLO.
- Shooting a modconfirmed town as a town vigilante.

You would be surprised... even these things actually happen....

Those are examples that i can come up with here. I don't think lynching/voting yourself (outside LYLO) goes into that category, because people can actually think (regardless of if they are right or wrong) that is the best direction town can take.
table for two on a tv tray
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16322 Posts
May 20 2016 13:28 GMT
#855
On May 20 2016 22:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2016 21:11 justanothertownie wrote:
On May 20 2016 16:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Damdred i am a bit puzzled in why you are requesting a ban for self-voting when you yourself allowed self-voting in the game? Is it anti-town? Yes. Against the rules? No. In a same manner you could request a ban to Palmar and sandroba for playing a terrible scumgame. Or to all the townies in LYLO for not posting at all for the first 46 hours or so...

None if this changes the fact that it was clearly against their wincon and like I said - if actively working towards your own mislynch isn't playing against your wincon then what could possibly be? What is the point of that rule then?

And yeah, you are right. Sandro probably deserves a warning or something too but mostly for inactivity. His play was a disgrace but at least he didn't actively encourage town to kill him.

I understand the point.

I however do not understand the point that for example self-voting is allowed in a game and then the host seeks ban for a self-voter. What's the point of a self-vote if it is not killing yourself for whatever reason?

I totally get the idea of playing against your wincon and i mostly agree with your view of the situation but it is not so black and white. For example i understand Slam's train of though perfectly fine and while i do not agree with it at all, who is to say what is an "appropriate" solution a player should take to situations (especially emotional ones) and what is not? Hell it's even perfectly possible that you would have won way more easier if Slam (or Fazers) was not lynched the day he was.

People giving up and getting themselves lynched has happened and will happen in the future. I don't really remember a case where that has resulted in a ban or even a warning. The "actively playing against you wincon" is really hard thing to draw a line to. For example i consider people not posting anything game-relevant for 40 first hours in LYLO just as much playing against wincon than what Slam did. I also consider people not addressing arguments against them or answering them with "fuck you i am not gonna talk to you" 's playing as much "against wincon"... Those things happen though, if not every game, at least almost every game.

For this particular situation and people:
- Slam's explanation for his actions is perfectly valid, there is nothing wrong with it.
- Fazers self-vote cannot possibly be considered playing against his wincon in itself because Damdred HAD ALLOWED self-voting in the game. If something is against playing your wincon or against rules why the fuck do you allow it then? It's like saying "cursing in this game is fine" and when someone does it you go on and seek a ban for him because they cursed.... Seems fair? Also the activity argument doesn't really hold water either since Fazers met the activity requirements (even better than certain other players) and there is no rule about how "informative" or "in depth" your posting is supposed to be.

Did they screw over town? Sure they did. Did they break any rules? No.

I mean, one could make an argumet that BH should get a ban from game X because he promoted a D1 random lynch. kitaman's statistics clearly show that TL towns lynch mafia more often on D1 based on educated guessing than a random lynch does. So BH is playing against his wincon if he is town, right? This is actually a logically sound argument, yet imo it sounds just as stupid as the argument on Slam and Fazers...

No, no, no.

First of all not being in LYLO is no justification for anything.
Second of all you are right that allowing selfvotes is stupid and I don't know why hosts do it. But it doesn't change the fact that fazers play directly contradicted his wincon regardless of the fact if the selfvote itself was forbidden or not. That's a fallacious argument.
It is possible to discuss about if your other examples really violate your wincon but in fazers case arguing against it is 100 % impossible.

And there is everything wrong with slams train of thought. He justified himself with "I would never have been lynched after JAT" but he did not know that I was mafia in the game. Ricey could have been mafia. Fazers or Etellex could have been mafia. His reasoning is wrong and bs and this was explained to him several times in the past. It is NEVER good or the right thing to push for your own mislynch. It's egoistical and pathetic. The only reason I could imagine is if it is deadline and you 100 % know your counterwagon is a town powerrole and you are VT but that's literally the only situation possible.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
May 20 2016 13:31 GMT
#856
Okay so should we ban Blazinghand too?
Or people who think a townie should be lynched because they will anyways lose the game for the town (i am sure you have thought like this and even voted like this as town -- don't lie )?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
May 20 2016 13:34 GMT
#857
I mean i don't see the difference in if that person who should be lynched is you or someone else, if you don't think they are mafia. Unless it is LYLO ofc where the result is obviously a loss for your team if you are lynched. In a same way conceding as mafia should be punished? Because if you concede you cannot possibly help your team to win?

Where do you wanna draw the line?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-20 13:41:29
May 20 2016 13:41 GMT
#858
Like you and me don't agree with each others train of though at times. Does it make me unallowed to have an "illogical" train of thought? Or you? Or Slam here? You should know that...

Again, what is wrong with this:
I am known to be a wild card. If I had made it to Lylo, there is no way I would not have been lynched before JAT. Beyond that, anyone else in that game who would have been scum could have simply said that I somehow avoided being lynched by being slam and therefore must be scum because I hard defended palmar.

It basically says "i am a liability to the town and i will get lynched over other people if i go to LYLO" (unlike you say, he doesn't just single out YOU but also explains himself on other people too).
table for two on a tv tray
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16322 Posts
May 20 2016 13:42 GMT
#859
On May 20 2016 22:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean i don't see the difference in if that person who should be lynched is you or someone else, if you don't think they are mafia. Unless it is LYLO ofc where the result is obviously a loss for your team if you are lynched. In a same way conceding as mafia should be punished? Because if you concede you cannot possibly help your team to win?

Where do you wanna draw the line?

You seriously don't see the difference when it is so unbelievably fucking obvious?

The difference is that you yourself 100 % know that you are town. Noone else does. People who get lynched by others using this reasoning are usually coinflips which by definition means they could be mafia as well as town. Noone lynches someone despite KNOWING that he is town.

This is one of the easiest lines to draw in the history of line drawing.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
May 20 2016 13:44 GMT
#860
On May 20 2016 22:42 justanothertownie wrote:
Noone lynches someone despite KNOWING that he is town.

At least i do at times. Because those townies will literally lose the game if they are not lynched. I think you do too at times...
table for two on a tv tray
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