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Trfel
7015 Posts
On July 15 2015 07:26 Breshke wrote: I think I did even better than you.... XDMorning guys my reads are confirmed the greatest I hard townread both scum at one point, bow down. Will be back tonight. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On July 15 2015 07:54 Holyflare wrote: What about KelsierSC's really forced townread on you in Carol of the Bells?no maybe you've misread, it's almost entirely out of game reasons that i am mad and people are just needlessly antagonizing me and it's making it worse so i'd rather you kill me before i flame the entire game's worth of players also, it should be obvious i'm town from obi's point that ksc's read on me was really forced and that only comes from mafia finding it hard to town read a towny because they have to come up with unintuitive reasons anyway last last post  | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
##vote Holyflare I don't really feel like talking about it just now, but I do know that Holyflare is perfectly willing to say anything as mafia. + Show Spoiler [Examples] + In Hearthstone Mafia, Holyflare was given a separate QT with a town player, and told him he was mod confirmed town. The town player believed it and told all of town that Holyflare was mod confirmed. Holyflare proceeded to demolish town. In one of the newbie games, Holyflare replaced in to the scum team. After most of the experienced players were dead, he said that he never replaced into slots that were mafia, and that he asked the host for the alignment of the spot he would replace into before he agreed to join. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
 And I don't really know what to do about it. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Also, you never answered my previous question... If Clarity_nl's first few posts seemed scummy because they were pre-planned, how could this be true if Holyflare is town? In other words, how could Clarity_nl, as mafia plan something before the game with town!Holyflare? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I don't think that his not knowing how many mafia there are is alignment indicative. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Geript acknowledged in that very post that he knew that "investigator" was part of the VT name by saying that roles are listed in the OP. Oatsmaster claiming VT, with or without the flavor name, doesn't say anything about his alignment. What are you getting at? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On July 16 2015 10:12 Holyflare wrote: Okay, I think I get what you are saying.Oatsmaster claimed to have caught geript in a scum slip. This line of thinking I don't think comes from a mafia Oats. You may argue that it does but I don't think it does. Regardless, geript further explains that he thinks there are only 2 investigators. Oat's takes this to be another slip that Geript does not know that VT's are named investigators instead of there being 2 investigator named roles in the OP. Oat's pushes that Geript must be mafia because of this. If oats was mafia then he would be assuming that Geript is in fact a blue role since he would either be blue or mafia based on this knowledge. This aside, I like the abundance of what Oats has posted on day 1. His pushes were inquisitive, his thoughts aligned with mine and I agree with pretty much everything he said. If an Oats says a lot of things I'm thinking and has similar reads to me, I take that as a good sign that he's town. Much like I did with Scott before you all talked me out of it. But why would mafia not want to push a blue role? At best, you force them to claim. At worst, they adequately defend themselves. Is the towncredit for townreading a flipped blue really worth it? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I will look more closely at the ObiWanShinobi scumread later tonight, but I need to head out for a while, so... | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On July 16 2015 10:19 Holyflare wrote: Oh, that makes sense. Got it.What do you mean town credit? I'm just saying that if Oats was mafia he would know Geript was blue and would tell his team and geript would be dead in the night instead of random afk palmar and JAT. Especially as Geript was onto Damdred for a LOT of the game not only would it be good to relieve pressure from someone town read but also a blue shot. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On July 16 2015 14:15 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Hearthstone and stress should not go in the same sentence...No. If you're going to be fucking useless and write Hf off for no reason then I'm not even going to bother because he's just going to tunnel me and I'm not dealing with that for another phase. I'd rather be lynched than listen to idiots give him passes for nothing while dealing with his bullshit for days. I lost weight dealing with the stress in hearthstone and I'm not dealing with that here. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On July 16 2015 14:25 rsoultin wrote: Uh, I'm not really up to date with recent stuff yo, truffle, where you at in the catch-up? you've got my undivided attention (mostly) for the next hour lol and i think you're more up on the recent stuff than i am i've got you, oats and ls as my strong towns do you have any doubts on hts/clarity or can i skip over them and look at everyone else? To be honest, the KelsierSC flip hurt my motivation significantly, it feels like an unfair advantage (and no, I'm not complaining about moderator actions).I don't really have much doubt on Holyflare. I wouldn't be surprised if both he and ObiWanShinobi were mafia, and they planned a double-bus for today, so even if Holyflare's ObiWanShinobi case is completely correct, that doesn't clear him. I still feel mostly confident in my earlier read on Holyflare and I've only seen evidence for it since then... Oh, you said hts, not hf. Whoops. Uh, I guess I have just a little doubt about Half the Sky and Clarity_nl. I don't really know Clarity_nl that well, though. This just feels like a really hard game. While it's possible that scum is just XEliteBlueHunter69X, WaveofShadow, etc (just lurkers), it feels like that's not it. Damdred was only really caught due to the track (I believe?), and KelsierSC was only caught due to the modkill. I really have trouble justifying completely clearing anyone in this game other than claimed blues. But I wouldn't worry about Half the Sky and Clarity_nl at this time, I guess? They feel like the lowest priorities right now. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On July 16 2015 14:44 rsoultin wrote: His read isn't a great read, but he does make a point.nope as in anyone can read the op, go look vt has investigator in the role, and make that post it's a ridiculous thing to townread someone for beyond maaaaaybe the very start of the game and an even more ridiculous thing to still be townreading someone for as your main reason i didn't realize that was what you were referring to -_- and i know i've already commented on this and frankly this "oh i thought that too!" crap always makes me roll my eyes The flaw is that it was a 5 man scum team, and even if Oatsmaster thinks geript is blue, and even if geript was scumreading Damdred, that still doesn't really suggest that geript is a likely night kill. I'm looking at Holyflare's case on ObiWanShinobi, and some of it makes a lot of sense, but I've never had much success reading ObiWanShinobi... And I've definitely seen ObiWanShinobi play seriously as town before, that's a horrible point. Furthermore, I am sure that ObiWanShinobi was suspicious of Holyflare at one point during Day 1 (early on, then reinforced by how Holyflare treated marvellosity early), but I don't know what he did with this read. The fact that Holyflare completely ignored it seems a bit strange though, even if the read was completely dropped for several days, I'd think that a truly unbiased Holyflare would have at least mentioned it. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On July 16 2015 14:48 rsoultin wrote: I didn't read the game.oh, truffle, can you give me examples of bf deliberately acting dumb in his scum game while i look into ows for kicks and giggles? or at least remind me which game it was lol >< It was his first game ever (I'd hope you could guess that..), that newbie mafia that cakepie hosted. Here you go. All I know is what people said about it. It was referenced several times in Student Mafia 11. And I can't 100% trust you, so I need to look at ObiWanShinobi for myself. You can look at boxerfred's filter yourself if you really want to. I'm not saying that it makes him scum, I'm just saying that townreading him for not knowing the number of scum left is really, really stupid. I don't see how to tell if he was being genuine or not. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On July 16 2015 14:52 Holyflare wrote: Holyflare, your scum game is more towny than my town game. Your reads as scum are objectively better than my reads as town (and probably more accurate, too, with bussing).Still not mafia trfel. Care to explain how your town view of me didn't align with this game? Everything you wrote in your case that i do as town i did before you even wrote it. I did not see your response to my case on you. I saw you dismiss it as "I get angry at people for being stupid as town", which is an unsupported statement of no real use. Furthermore, my case wasn't really a case at all; it was reasons without much explanation, and without support. My intention was to give people the ability to look at the things I mentioned, look at the meta, and see what I was trying to convey. Not to convince, but to try and get people to evaluate for themselves. In the past, I've read you more based on attitude. I don't feel like reading you based on read accuracy, or agreeing with me, works out at all (because I'm not good enough to do so, and you're too good). In Linux Mini Mafia, you were playing well, but there were a few inconsistencies. Towards the end of the day, especially, (when it was looking bad for mafia), I felt like your play was slipping a bit. You seemed more willing to just throw random scumreads at a wider variety of people, and you had some argument with Damdred that didn't make sense from a town perspective. Contrast this with Guardians of the Galaxy Mafia. You had an early scumread on Alakaslam, and you had good reasons for this read. You got into an argument with Alakaslam in which you were "winning". However, you soon re-evaluated and decided to give Alakaslam more time, and that even though your arguments were logically sound, didn't mean that Alakaslam definitely was mafia. And you didn't carry on the argument for long enough to disrupt the game. In this game, your early argument with rsoultin and me didn't serve much purpose. Your wording was inconsistent, and most importantly, I didn't feel like you were arguing to find out information* or to convince people to lynch your scumread, but simply for the purpose of arguing and logically "winning" the argument. And that doesn't fit from a town perspective, at all. From what I've seen from your play, your town play is more focused, willing to work with people, and less often getting into pointless arguments. But as scum, you're willing to yell at people and disrupt the thread when there isn't much of a point to it. Furthermore, the several instances of martyring feel out of place. I have come to expect basically maximum effort all of the time from you. Notably, the martyring you did at the start of the day felt off. You seemed to be putting in effort and were reasonable at the end of the night, and up until the flip. Then at the start of the day, you apparently got extremely upset and left the thread. To me, it seemed like the sudden change was caused by LightningStrike asking people to lynch you, which seems really, really unlikely. First because, confirmed town or no, I don't expect you (being one of the very best players on the site) to be scared of a push from LightningStrike (no offense to LightningStrike, but he's still relatively new compared to Holyflare). Second, because LightningStrike had already said that his plan was for you to die in the night or to be lynched the next day. That was way longer than I expected, but yeah. If there are things I am missing, or things I am wrong about, please let me know. Otherwise, I intend to read ObiWanShinobi's filter, and then re-evaluate from there. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On July 16 2015 15:15 Holyflare wrote: Pointing out inconsistencies and pushing something aren't the same.Ok so how was my push on you and argument with rsoultin not trying to push you as a scum read? I was quite clearly pointing out inconsistencies from your filter and then when you made the case on LS i used those inconsistencies to make a good case on you. Rsoultin got in the way and if you actually look at the argument in my filter it's really stupid and it's me just repeating that you are inconsistent and not explaining anything. You state alakaslam as an example of my whim to drop a scum read, how has that not applied to my read on you that mysteriously disappeared before you made that post on me? I think it's exactly the same. Maybe you are too tunelled to read that but i did it several times for other players too. Me being angry means nothing, I'll tell you now. Extenuating circumstances aside i was getting continually fed up with making cases and trying to be reasonable and getting back in the game and then just getting shut down (by confirmed townies no less) for.... 0 reasons? It annoyed me and piled on top of already shitness and i just wanted to die so people would actually listen for a change. My obi read is good, his defences of people aren't natural and now he can't explain any of his reads. You say my scum game is townier than your town game so why on earth would i play so shit as mafia when my reign woild be on the line. Answer is i wouldn't. You provided tons and tons of examples of inconsistencies, more than you needed to; townies reading the thread would get the point, Trfel's posting has inconsistencies. It would be more useful to actually talk to people about why I am scum, or go find different reasons. Instead, you in one post acknowledged that rsoultin would never be persuaded to vote for me, and in the next post were talking to her. You cared to try and get Breshke's vote when he was there, but ignored boxerfred when he showed up. Of course you can drop scumreads as mafia. My point is that with Alakaslam, you did it when you realized it wasn't going anywhere. You could tell your early push on me (at least, with those methods) wasn't going anywhere for quite some time, especially since you were pushing it when no one but really me and rsoultin were in the thread. I think that maybe I agree, and that ObiWanShinobi is kind of scummy. However, he referenced his scumread of you several times, and you left them all out of your case. His play is a bit disjointed, but in a game with this many players and posts, that seems somewhat understandable? Someone else please tell me if I'm making sense, or if I'm just being stupid? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I'll check some meta, but if someone can show that this strongly indicates that ObiWanShinobi is scum, that would be good to know. Because while it is scummy, I don't find it convincing enough by itself. | ||
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