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TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden - Page 7

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 06:58 GMT
#6380
Someone talk to me about ruXxar.

Either I missed something, or he's almost certainly scum.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 07:10 GMT
#6382
On July 14 2015 16:08 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 15:58 Trfel wrote:
Someone talk to me about ruXxar.

Either I missed something, or he's almost certainly scum.


What about Scott, EBH, WoS?

For clarity I actually see a chance he's town even though his case was sketchy as shit, so deifinitely the lowest of my priorities.


Scott31337 is a fair shot at scum, though probably the least certain of my scum reads.

I don't really know about XEliteBlueHunter69X or WaveofShadow, though I'm a little inclined to think that WaveofShadow is town? I think his early read on Clarity_nl and how he reacted to the pressure felt a little bit towny.

Please talk to me about ruXxar.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 07:18 GMT
#6385
On July 14 2015 16:16 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 16:10 Trfel wrote:
On July 14 2015 16:08 Vivax wrote:
On July 14 2015 15:58 Trfel wrote:
Someone talk to me about ruXxar.

Either I missed something, or he's almost certainly scum.


What about Scott, EBH, WoS?

For clarity I actually see a chance he's town even though his case was sketchy as shit, so deifinitely the lowest of my priorities.


Scott31337 is a fair shot at scum, though probably the least certain of my scum reads.

I don't really know about XEliteBlueHunter69X or WaveofShadow, though I'm a little inclined to think that WaveofShadow is town? I think his early read on Clarity_nl and how he reacted to the pressure felt a little bit towny.

Please talk to me about ruXxar.


I just skimmed a bit of his himalayas filter for the first time and I actually think he's townish now.
How about the part where he made an associative scumread that two people are scum, but only scumread one of them? And explained it by saying he thought they could be masons, but continued to only scumread one of them after he said he had realized this?

How about the part where this is also different from his play as town in Newbie Mafia 11 (it was his first game ever, look at the later parts of the game for a better representation)? How about the fact that he replaced into Himalayas after the game was well under way, and only towards the end of the game joined the discussion and posted more casually (more like he is in this game)?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 07:24 GMT
#6386
I mean, he used many formal cases in the Himalayas game. And he didn't make any of those here.

This does suggest that he is town, but I don't think it's anywhere near as strong as the reasons to scumread him.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 07:29 GMT
#6388
On July 14 2015 16:25 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 16:18 Trfel wrote:
On July 14 2015 16:16 Vivax wrote:
On July 14 2015 16:10 Trfel wrote:
On July 14 2015 16:08 Vivax wrote:
On July 14 2015 15:58 Trfel wrote:
Someone talk to me about ruXxar.

Either I missed something, or he's almost certainly scum.


What about Scott, EBH, WoS?

For clarity I actually see a chance he's town even though his case was sketchy as shit, so deifinitely the lowest of my priorities.


Scott31337 is a fair shot at scum, though probably the least certain of my scum reads.

I don't really know about XEliteBlueHunter69X or WaveofShadow, though I'm a little inclined to think that WaveofShadow is town? I think his early read on Clarity_nl and how he reacted to the pressure felt a little bit towny.

Please talk to me about ruXxar.


I just skimmed a bit of his himalayas filter for the first time and I actually think he's townish now.
How about the part where he made an associative scumread that two people are scum, but only scumread one of them? And explained it by saying he thought they could be masons, but continued to only scumread one of them after he said he had realized this?

How about the part where this is also different from his play as town in Newbie Mafia 11 (it was his first game ever, look at the later parts of the game for a better representation)? How about the fact that he replaced into Himalayas after the game was well under way, and only towards the end of the game joined the discussion and posted more casually (more like he is in this game)?


His tone is way different. He's more earnest and synthetic in his posting in himalayas, you see that in the way he posts he cares much more about his appeareance.

I doubt you will be able to sway me with what you say.
Are you talking about the start of his play in Himalayas, or the end? Or did you read all of it?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 07:47 GMT
#6390
On July 14 2015 16:33 Vivax wrote:
At least we've arrived at the stage where the politicians get NKd, so that should narrow down options between marv/HF/Harkon. I don't even want to bother about who of them is mafia until a few get killed.

Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 16:29 Trfel wrote:
On July 14 2015 16:25 Vivax wrote:
On July 14 2015 16:18 Trfel wrote:
On July 14 2015 16:16 Vivax wrote:
On July 14 2015 16:10 Trfel wrote:
On July 14 2015 16:08 Vivax wrote:
On July 14 2015 15:58 Trfel wrote:
Someone talk to me about ruXxar.

Either I missed something, or he's almost certainly scum.


What about Scott, EBH, WoS?

For clarity I actually see a chance he's town even though his case was sketchy as shit, so deifinitely the lowest of my priorities.


Scott31337 is a fair shot at scum, though probably the least certain of my scum reads.

I don't really know about XEliteBlueHunter69X or WaveofShadow, though I'm a little inclined to think that WaveofShadow is town? I think his early read on Clarity_nl and how he reacted to the pressure felt a little bit towny.

Please talk to me about ruXxar.


I just skimmed a bit of his himalayas filter for the first time and I actually think he's townish now.
How about the part where he made an associative scumread that two people are scum, but only scumread one of them? And explained it by saying he thought they could be masons, but continued to only scumread one of them after he said he had realized this?

How about the part where this is also different from his play as town in Newbie Mafia 11 (it was his first game ever, look at the later parts of the game for a better representation)? How about the fact that he replaced into Himalayas after the game was well under way, and only towards the end of the game joined the discussion and posted more casually (more like he is in this game)?


His tone is way different. He's more earnest and synthetic in his posting in himalayas, you see that in the way he posts he cares much more about his appeareance.

I doubt you will be able to sway me with what you say.
Are you talking about the start of his play in Himalayas, or the end? Or did you read all of it?


No, I'm lazy atm. Just skimmed.
I'd like to know why your play has been so unremerkable this game thoughh. You only started to put in some degree of effort now.
Well, I would really like you to read the end of his Himalayas filter. While the beginning does seem a bit reserved, in the middle he seems much more free in his thoughts, and by the end he is very conversational, free to share his thoughts, and has strong opinions. He wasn't hesitant to disagree and argue with people. To me, the confidence he displayed at the end of his scum game seems very similar to his play here.

And his play here doesn't look like his town play, either. As town, he posted about a lot of different things and was always jumping all over the place. Here, early on he was extremely focused on certain reads, but didn't bother trying to explain them. In Student Mafia 11, ruXxar was posting interesting thoughts and always had a drive to solve the game, which I don't always see here.

I think that my read on ruXxar is extremely strong. It's a short read, the important part is the inconsistency with regards to Clarity_nl and Holyflare, and how his explanation doesn't fit. Meanwhile, I really don't see how his meta and tone really indicates that he is town here, in fact I feel that it slightly suggests that he is mafia, but either way I think that this is a somewhat unreliable way of reading ruXxar.

I'm not here to talk about myself, but because you asked:
+ Show Spoiler +
You know I've been extremely lazy. Remember Carol of the Bells, where I basically afk'd through Day 1, Night 1, and most of Day 2?

There were many, many worse games since then. Notable games are Down Under Mafia (both games), and Guardians of the Galaxy. Every single large game I've played in, I haven't been able to keep up at the start of the game. You'd think I would learn, but I haven't.

Also, I'm home from college, now. I only started playing mafia when I was in college. I've been spending time with my family and my friends here, and this makes my schedule a lot harder to fit mafia in to. Since I returned from college, I've only played two games. One as a smurf (and I smurfed for two reasons: one, to try a new playstyle, and two, to play at a lesser standard (primarily activity). I felt that playing as a smurf would be a sign that I wasn't able to play to my full abilities, but many people just said "why didn't you play on your main account?", so I did. The other game was a fairly low-posting newbie game, and I was mafia. I just posted late and didn't bother arguing or interacting as much, so it didn't take as much time. Plus, it was a low-posting mini game.

Then, I get into this large-game spamfest..... Anyway, I've talked to rsoultin about all of the above, so she can confirm it if necessary.

Furthermore, I've had some real life issues since the game began. They aren't huge issues, but emotionally and mentally I'm a very weak person. If you don't believe it, ask rsoultin, or look at my coaching QT from Newbie Mafia 61, where I made a million posts of whining and ranting to Artanis[Xp]. My emotional behavior in this game turned someone away from TL Mafia, something I'm still upset about.

I've been having some girl problems, problems interacting with my friends, and our family hosted a guest from Europe for the past few days. And I've been too far behind in the thread to want to try and catch up, especially with the lynches being seemingly set in stone, and me not having the thread knowledge/presence/mental strength to argue against them.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 08:07 GMT
#6394
Maybe boxerfred is scum?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 08:10 GMT
#6396
Harkon, is there an error in my read on ruXxar?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 08:17 GMT
#6398
Also, I'm pretty sure that KelsierSC is town. Reading the start of the game more closely, his posts seem to show critical thinking and a drive to solve the game. I've found KelsierSC to be fairly easy to read in the past, as his town play is significantly better than his scum play. His play here seems to be much more focused and driven than his scum play.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 08:35 GMT
#6401
As of page 45 in the thread, ruXxar is suspicious of everyone who has been seriously scumread: Trfel, Clarity_nl, WaveofShadow, and ritoky. He also made a post earlier that seemed to accept the LightningStrike scumread, though he never mentioned LightningStrike since. Basically every single lynch candidate at this point.

I find it especially funny that he left ritoky off of his scum list and then added him at marvellosity's suggestion. And the way that he immediately showed interest in KelsierSC's "xP" analysis on rsoultin, but didn't really commit to scumreading rsoultin. His earlier townread on rsoultin doesn't seem to have been considered.

This seems very suspicious by itself, but when compared to his play in Student Mafia 11, it is even worse. RuXxar was far more willing to townread people there, and never threw out this many scumreads (relative to the game size, of course).



While I only gave one example earlier of how ruXxar was scumreading Clarity_nl after his supposed realization that he could be mason with Holyflare, ruXxar was very clearly scumreading Clarity_nl for a significant amount of time after this. And there's no mention of Holyflare at all.

I'm completely convinced that ruXxar lied about his mason read on Holyflare and Clarity_nl. And while lying doesn't necessarily make someone mafia, I'm having a lot of trouble accepting this coming from town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 08:58 GMT
#6406
An Analysis of the Brussels Sprout Conversation

+ Show Spoiler +
Background:

Oatsmaster mentioned that rsoultin's high usage of "xP" in this game suggests that she is mafia. KelsierSC analyzed several of rsoultin's games as both alignments and concluded that rsoultin uses "xP" more as mafia than as town, and her average in this game matched her town averages. However, he then analyzed only the first four pages of each game, and the "xP" count was not alignment indicative.

On July 06 2015 22:34 rsoultin wrote:
Retracting hard townread on kels for pure retardation

The post that started the conversation.
On July 06 2015 22:35 marvellosity wrote:
kelsier is pretty obviously town tbh.
On July 06 2015 22:36 Harkon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2015 22:34 rsoultin wrote:
Hf treating me like a pariah = prob scum

i'll explain later

Retracting hard townread on kels for pure retardation

What is mafiaish about the retardation? You are being very defensive.
It's a simple question, and it has a simple answer. However, as town, rsoultin doesn't care if she argues with people, doesn't care about looking good, tends to answer questions and discuss in a really round-about way, and really doesn't like dealing with people/reads she thinks are stupid. I know you're going to say that rsoultin does this as mafia too, just wait patiently...

On July 06 2015 22:39 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2015 22:36 Harkon wrote:
On July 06 2015 22:34 rsoultin wrote:
Hf treating me like a pariah = prob scum

i'll explain later

Retracting hard townread on kels for pure retardation

What is mafiaish about the retardation? You are being very defensive.


Nothing if you have the intelligence of a brussels sprout XP

Xp xp xp xp

What is that now? 30?
What rsoultin is saying is fairly obvious, at this point. If someone is smart, and they say/do something that is clearly below their intelligence, then this is a reasonable sign that they are mafia. The problem is that there are many reasons that people can incorrectly read people in this way (applying the method incorrectly, such as incorrect assumptions about people's intelligence, misreading the questions, people simply thinking in different ways, other factors like being high/drunk/etc). But the core of the read is a sensible read. There is no town motivation for intentionally being stupid.

On July 06 2015 22:42 Harkon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2015 22:39 rsoultin wrote:
On July 06 2015 22:36 Harkon wrote:
On July 06 2015 22:34 rsoultin wrote:
Hf treating me like a pariah = prob scum

i'll explain later

Retracting hard townread on kels for pure retardation

What is mafiaish about the retardation? You are being very defensive.


Nothing if you have the intelligence of a brussels sprout XP

Xp xp xp xp

What is that now? 30?

Let's assume for a minute that my intelligence is above the level of a brussels sprout. Same question.
On July 06 2015 22:47 rsoultin wrote:
Swahili

I'm saying retardation is only alignment indicative for intelligent people
Swahili, as in that Harkon completely missed rsoultin's answer, as if it were in Swahili. Then rsoultin slightly expands on the same thing.
On July 06 2015 22:48 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2015 22:47 rsoultin wrote:
Swahili

I'm saying retardation is only alignment indicative for intelligent people

so are you saying kels' retardation is alignment indicative then?
On July 06 2015 22:49 Harkon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2015 22:47 rsoultin wrote:
Swahili

I'm saying retardation is only alignment indicative for intelligent people

Keep dodging the issue.
On July 06 2015 22:50 rsoultin wrote:
I'm saying it's retarded enough to doubt my townread on him

Kinda amazing how this leads right back to what my post said when I first posted it ^^
On July 06 2015 22:51 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2015 22:49 Harkon wrote:
On July 06 2015 22:47 rsoultin wrote:
Swahili

I'm saying retardation is only alignment indicative for intelligent people

Keep dodging the issue.


Okay yeah lol you can be a brussels sprout if you want ^^ the imitation is spot on
On July 06 2015 22:52 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2015 22:50 rsoultin wrote:
I'm saying it's retarded enough to doubt my townread on him

Kinda amazing how this leads right back to what my post said when I first posted it ^^

kinda amazing how i understand precisely what Hadron is getting at yet you keep not answering clearly


That's enough to convey the point. Rsoultin did answer the questions asked of her every single time, just in a very round-about way. And evidently Harkon and marvellosity didn't really understand the answers (or they could have gone straight to the important questions, such as why rsoultin expects more intelligence than this from KelsierSC, how she knows that there isn't some other explanation, why rsoultin isn't paying attention to the effort that KelsierSC used, etc.

As town, rsoultin seems to care more about answering questions in her own way and posting in her own way than playing such that other people can easily/clearly see what she is saying. We've talked about this a few times. In Assassination Mafia, this eventually caused her to make a few huge essay-style posts, clearly stating her reads in simple English.

Point being that rsoultin seemingly dodging questions and being unhelpful is an issue in communication, and doesn't make her scum. On the contrary, I think that as mafia, rsoultin would be more willing to be helpful and answer questions more clearly, and be less argumentative. Furthermore, there's an element of creativity to these answers that provides hints at the thought process that created her reads, which could be harder to replicate as scum.

Although at times it may seem that rsoultin is dodging questions or being unhelpful, this is generally not true. Rsoultin knows how to clearly answer questions, and as scum, she'd be more interested in doing so. The fact that she is still stubbornly playing in her own style, despite being scumread for it, suggests that she is town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 09:08 GMT
#6407
Stopping at Page 50. Good night.

RuXxar is top scum, followed by Holyflare, and then scott31337 (but I'm less confident about him).

Boxerfred might be scum, but I don't have very much on him, yet.

Clarity_nl and WaveofShadow feel a bit towny, and KelsierSC is a fairly solid townread.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 20:00 GMT
#6631
On July 14 2015 18:52 marvellosity wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=320#6390

the spoilered is getting pretty close to correct application of DMA
I don't understand, I thought that sharing out-of-game information was acceptable? I did not mean to do something improper, regardless of if it is legal...



ruXxar

On July 14 2015 11:29 ruXxar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 09:44 Trfel wrote:
Adding ruXxar to the scum pool.
+ Show Spoiler [Reasons, if you're interested in…] +
He scumread me (Trfel) without explaining his reasoning. He seemed to really want to lynch me (enough to repeat himself without prompting about it), but not enough to clearly state why, for people who hadn't read Student Mafia 11. Furthermore, his scumread on me was posted well after my opening post, and his vote was made even after that. This doesn't feel like a town mindset.

The first main push in the thread was Damdred's push on LightningStrike. RuXxar was one of the people who didn't say anything about the push. However, a few pages later, RuXxar seemed accepting of the push (asked LightningStrike what he was trying to say with his list of scott31337's games). He didn't mention LightningStrike again for a while, though. His interest in LightningStrike doesn't feel very high at all, which is strange, especially since he townread Damdred. If he didn't like the push, he should have said so; as it is, he gave himself room to jump on it later, while largely avoiding it.

His townread of Damdred and scott31337 seems to be for a trap, which made no sense whatsoever. Making a post that contains no relevant information or reads generally isn't a reason for someone to be town.

RuXxar switching his main scumread from me to Clarity_nl has several problems. First, it shows he wasn't really reading the game clearly, or he would have thought of this at the start, not only when someone mentioned something that had been said many times already. Second, why did he scumread and vote Clarity_nl and completely ignore Holyflare, while scumreading Clarity_nl for an association with Holyflare early on? His interest in Holyflare is nonexistant.

Then, instead of discussing his scumreads, he just says that everyone questioning or being suspicious of Clarity_nl is towny.

Yes, this is different from how he played last game (as mafia). But it's also very different from how he played as town. Having done well as scum last game, I can see him excited to play scum again (especially if it's with Holyflare again, as I suspect). And his early play is very, very hard to see from a town perspective, while the mafia motivation seems clear.


1) I scum read you at the start for 2 reasons :

- Your comments were pointless and contributed nothing. I gained a lot of respect for you after the newbie game and expected a lot more.
- You were evasive when asked for your opinion.

2) I did not try to interject on damdreds push because I wanted to see what information could be gained from it.

3) The #battrap comment to damdred and scott was an inside joke from our newbie game(you were there).

4) Ok, here's my reasonining around clarity:

At first I had the thought that she was mafia with HF, because her comments on HF seemed pre-planned.
Then at a later point a thought struck me that she could actually be masoned with HF.
When clarity said "Do not lynch me and HF today" I thought she strongly alluded to them being masoned together.
I decided to give her time. This is also why I asked her a few times how she would feel if HF got lynched / died.
I see, I misread the bolded portion as why you were asking Holyflare what he would think if Clarity_nl died (which you did very soon after scumreading Clarity_nl). Now that I see the point you actually realized this (far, far later than I had thought), this makes much more sense.

I wouldn't expect to see this thought come from mafia.

On July 14 2015 22:05 ruXxar wrote:
It's incorrect to say that my scum-read on clarity only applied as long as HF is scum.
I scum-read her because her excuse sounded pre-planned.
Her actions were scummy on their own and didn't necessitate HF also being scum.

I saw 2 options :
- She's mafia alone or possibly mafia with HF.
- She's masoned with HF.
However, I still don't understand this. What excuse did Clarity_nl provide? I'm assuming you mean the excuse of the quick reaction to Holyflare's opening post, and using that to say he is town?

If so, how could that possibly be pre-planned from Clarity_nl but without Holyflare's knowledge? And why didn't this read apply to Holyflare?

Anyway, I feel pretty stupid now I guess I need to read more of ruXxar's play, apparently he was joking for much of the early game, which I had not realized.



On July 15 2015 00:02 Half the Sky wrote:
HF/Ras/Ruxxar - for information you'd have to shoot into that bunch unless somehow you can ferret whose most likely scum in that bunch and shoot that person. That's pretty obvious. Which might mean checking Trfel's case anyways in spite of DMA if we are to consider shooting Ruxxar. I mean Trfel is probably town because of DMA, but his reads COULD be off....though when he's town, he IS usually right. But as NSM7 proved...though he was active in that game, not always right.
I'm generally wrong on my reads, and you know it. If someone shoots ruXxar only because of what I said, I will be very mad. Why are you saying that my reads are good? I can't explain why you would say this as mafia, but it just feels really off...

On July 15 2015 00:07 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2015 00:05 Half the Sky wrote:
On July 15 2015 00:03 ruXxar wrote:
what is DMA?


Dick move analysis - marv explained it to me D1.

On July 08 2015 01:40 marvellosity wrote:
On July 08 2015 01:39 Half the Sky wrote:
Quick aside: someone remind me of what dick move analysis is?

when someone says something so dickish, you don't think they'd say it as a ruse as mafia because it would make them a total cock, you think they have to genuinely believe it.

yeah. and in the case of Trfel's spoiler - do i really think he'd ham it up THAT much if he were mafia? Essentially i hope he wouldn't go to those lengths, because it's so very cheap.
Please do not use this read, it's very flawed. I have stated many, many times that I will never lie about out of game excuses, as town or as mafia. My post would have looked largely the same regardless of my alignment. Me being busy is not an indicator that I am town, it's an indicator that I am busy.

On July 15 2015 00:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I mean I think the palmar shot makes sense for scum, he's a strong town that wasn't trying at all d1 which makes it likely he's blue, if he's not blue he's still a good shot as there's no way anyone is protecting him and he can solve games, and apparently harkon tried to direct a shot on him by soft claiming a blue role?
This is false, Palmar has taken to not playing seriously for the past while. In this game, I was actually impressed by the fact that Palmar was actually doing some things relevant to the game. But this does NOT suggest that he is blue.

To me, the Palmar night kill suggests that some of the otherwise more appealing targets are mafia... For example, Damdred.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 20:44 GMT
#6668
Holyflare, where you at a computer (and thus playing to the best of your ability) for Day 1?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 20:51 GMT
#6679
On July 15 2015 05:47 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2015 05:44 Trfel wrote:
Holyflare, where you at a computer (and thus playing to the best of your ability) for Day 1?


i don't remember, when did the game start?
On the fifth.

Basically, I'm reading the thread much more carefully than before, and it's going slowly. To be completely honest, I'm estimating that if I keep going at this rate, I'll finish the thread at about the same time the game ends (assuming we get at least one more scum lynch). So if I need to wait to finish reading the thread to make serious reads, I will never be able to do so.

As far as reading you on a portion of the game goes, is Day 1 a fair portion of the game to use?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 20:54 GMT
#6682
Oh and also...

Holyflare, what do you think about the out-of-game excuses I made in that one post? Do you think that it makes me town?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 21:55 GMT
#6754
Rsoultin, are you enjoying this game at all?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 22:00 GMT
#6767
On July 15 2015 06:58 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2015 06:55 Trfel wrote:
Rsoultin, are you enjoying this game at all?


not particularly, in all honesty. i overestimated my ability to keep up with a thread this size while doing that chem stuff so many others seem good at ^^ that and i'm easily frustrated at things, as you well know

why?
Curiosity.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 22:15 GMT
#6783
!
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
July 14 2015 22:22 GMT
#6798
Wait, Holyflare...

Didn't you have some paranoid theory about Harkon planned for End of Day? Did you not share it, or did I miss it?
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