[T][I]OT vs The Mods Mafia

On June 17 2015 03:23 MoonBear wrote:
This thread feels really hostile for some reason...

On June 18 2015 07:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Can I /in this?

I think I can right?

On July 02 2015 10:18 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'm memes

I claim maximum dankness

On July 02 2015 10:34 Dandel Ion wrote:
? it does work
asmo on the other hand is in all caps so he obviously is an eredar lord of the burning legion
serial arsonist confirmed

On July 02 2015 10:43 Holyflare wrote:
Dandel confirmed let's gogo mayor me

On July 02 2015 10:48 Cixah wrote:
This thread can only end with freedom, therefore we can't vote for any euros or canadas as mayor of our thread. I like among so fat, but I'm not voting for any euros for mayor.

On July 02 2015 10:48 Holyflare wrote:


Further confirmation

On July 02 2015 10:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Like I'll trust you to be in charge of a mafia game again.



On the contrary, I think BM is quite estute. Those who deserve the power are those that do not wish for it!

##Asmo for mayor

+ Show Spoiler +

On July 02 2015 10:57 Dandel Ion wrote:
come on help a brother out im trying to meme over here
somebody just has to do something awesome for me to meme to

you work on that, ill work on lowering my standards adequatly

On July 02 2015 21:38 jcarlsoniv wrote:


In his defense, I always hope to get some good contribution from you in these games, and I'm always disappointed.

As an aside, I don't know what my activity during the work day is going to be like. I'm going to try to keep it low cuz I have projects I need to work on z_z

On July 02 2015 11:22 Cixah wrote:
Can't give power to people who don't want it, won't give power to people who do want it. This is worse than anything else we could have discussed in our d1.

All euros read scum to me right now. Soniv is town, wave might be town. Let's party friends we've got so much more time to play games today!

Let use hear from so euros tho. Dandel. What is your favorite type of shower and is it the one you use to wipe all the scum off your face?

On July 02 2015 11:50 Cixah wrote:



ITS OKAY FRIEND, YOU CANT FAIL AS BAD AS WAVE DID.

But in all realsys you be the Mayor is fine. What the worst that can happen? You be mafia?

On July 02 2015 15:24 Cixah wrote:


Some people sleep bro,

As for my town reads.

Soniv is actually voting of the thing I like and I am town so it would make sense that he is also town. Wave is being wave, but he also hasn't really contributed anything to town yet. Perhaps he's just getting ready to throw again.

On July 02 2015 21:59 Dandel Ion wrote:
i would be tempted to agree but then i noticed i probably only want to think soniv is scum because hes soniv lel

thing is interesting tho since 6ahs worst post by far (forgivenface nospace) was the first one

On July 02 2015 22:10 Dandel Ion wrote:
(unfortunately) basically what gb said about it

the rest i can see as just fat americans being fat americans

On July 02 2015 22:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:
ebwop - @Wave - I am more wary of your reads this time around just by virtue of last game, but that doesn't mean I'm going to throw your reads in the trash right away. If you end up having a scum read on me, then don't hide it just because you're afraid of what happened last time.

On July 03 2015 01:34 Cixah wrote:
I still like asmo for mayor but Plot could be maybe a legit choice.

My reads on soniv still stand, he's pretty much the only person I can see as hard town atm, Wave is trying to make more sense of it though I do wish he would reconsider on me as I only have town's best interest. I do not like VE's or Mordek's posting but that's just D1 stuff from here. LT's posts have some reason to them, but still feel very alternate agenda to me. I would like to here more from him in regards to who the BEST lynch today might be, rather than who mayor should be.

Time for work, I'll be reading but probs not posting too much till I get home or after 6pm my time.

On July 03 2015 02:03 jcarlsoniv wrote:


I don't know how you can say "too much focus" on topics that haven't spanned tons of pages (or even many pages). Discussion of potential mayor is pretty standard for beginning D1 discussion. Plot's claim is weird to me.



I'm not going to take this just a face value. He says "oh don't worry about it if I don't get modkilled". Uhhh...k? So does that mean it's a fake claim? According to rules (as I understand them), you can't copy/paste role text. Maybe it's true that his role is somehow exempt, but that's not something I know to be true.

I agree that I'd like to know Plot's scumreads, especially if he is to be mayor (although I have no real burning desire to make him mayor over others). But rather than continually criticizing the discussion, wave, what are your reads?

On July 03 2015 02:34 Lord Tolkien wrote:

You, because you're questioning obvious town.



In all seriousness, we're just over half a day into the game. If you have strong reads, I'm calling bullshit, because there's nothing to base any lynch accusation on right now besides lulz and hunches.



So you're telling me,

1) we shouldn't analyze the guy who just claimed "I might be green or red, but idk right now"

2) it doesn't matter if we give scum D1 lynch power?

To be fair, 2) is pretty w/e because abusing it and lynching blatantly townie people like me would give OBVIOUS SCUM ALERT signs to everyone, which means the lynch has to be somewhat plausible (which means they'll end up lynching a lurker, probably) but come on.

On July 02 2015 13:41 GlowingBear wrote:


I was expecting people asking me why I wasn't voting asmodeus. I'm disappointed.

The quoted is the reason why. I know that Bill Murray, as scum, pushes his scum agenda very hard. I wouldn't be surprised if mafia Bill is voting scum partner asmodeus here. His reason to vote is weak (asmodeus wants to be mayor?).

That said, I am not risking voting him for this sole reason.

On July 03 2015 02:38 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Anyways, I've decided. I'm putting Wave in OT Mafia, Episode I, category for now until he sobers up.

Also Soniv, I would probably peg you town, but you're questioning my obvious townie status. How dare you question my inane, jocular statement.

As for GB, I've played a few mafia games with him, and I'm fairly certain I know how to read him.

On July 03 2015 03:10 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Right now I vote the mayor lynch Holyflare. He's too quiet and honestly? I've played with scum!HF as both town and scum and he's a goddamn pain to figure out (if he's scum).

On July 03 2015 03:06 Lord Tolkien wrote:
You're basically telling us we shouldn't be focusing on the two most notable events that have occurred early D1. In other words, you're telling us not to try and discuss and gauge reactions on them. I partially agree with you that the mayor role isn't that important, but still.

wat

Do you want to go back to kill la kill and jinx icon spam.

Like, saying
would be true IF THIS WAS D2 OR LATE D1, but we literally have bupkis to go on without these two things right now, and we don't really need a complete derail of the discussion.

On July 03 2015 03:30 Dandel Ion wrote:
yeah thats basically what i got grom the thread most posts are too boring to even try reading them rite now which is pretty hard atm

tldr you all suck many dicks

On July 03 2015 07:43 plotspot wrote:
How does this work? If somebody gets to be mayor at the EoD, must he immediately submit a lynch or does it become a sort of night action that resolves at the EoN? Must the mayor lynch someone?

On July 04 2015 01:09 jcarlsoniv wrote:


You're not wrong that 6ah is acting similarly to how Req acted in the last game (although definitely less...extreme). And the reason I think 6ah is scum now is still similar to why I thought Req was scum. He is acting/reacting scummily. He got very defensive immediately when any shadow of doubt was pointed to him. I agree with VE that early D1 soft blue claiming is really terrible.

It is concerning to me that the trend seems to be to give some of the more veteran players a free pass to do fuck all for D1. BM, HF, VE (although less than the others), Dandelion, even Wave isn't really trying much. It's not a "try hard" game, but that doesn't mean it's not a "try" game. But they have done fairly little and I'm not really able to form any real read on them yet. Of them, my thoughts seem to be most in line with VE's at this point.

On July 04 2015 01:36 Lord Tolkien wrote:

Just because you think he's town doesn't mean he's mayor material.

On July 04 2015 01:49 ComaDose wrote:

I think this is a good point. If the one who is lynched flips mod, we can be reasonably sure that the mayor was not mod. If they flip town well... people make mistakes but based off of how many people agree with the decision it could still be telling.
if we choose someone who doesnt know their alignment then they could pick mod but then still end up being mod themselves.

On July 04 2015 01:58 Lord Tolkien wrote:

Fair enough. It's still disconcerting.


There are two things in mafia I've learned not to trust. Medic claims and juicy dads.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/468739-tllolotgdtm



Either 6ah or Asmo, for obvious reasons. I'm not picky. Maybe coma, but the flip is less informative. I'll have to check his filter again. Too many null reads right now because everyone's memeing so hard and I'm generally a terrible D1er.

Now then, who would you lynch.

On July 04 2015 02:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Then why say it at all? Random conjecture like that is sketchy - it makes you able to say what you want, but no one can hold you accountable for it? "It's just a prank, bro"

On July 04 2015 02:11 Lord Tolkien wrote:

Was mostly a disjointed thought after waking up.

I was considering how much VE deserved a lynch (the interesting relationship being something that made me want to lynch him more). If you join that with the post I made previously, it makes sense.

On July 04 2015 02:13 Lord Tolkien wrote:

I do think you're town, I just doubt your judgement.

I would lynch either Asmo or 6ah. At this point, the most analytically useful flips, since my scum reads are not strong.

Probably 6ah over Asmo but eh. Not picky, again.

On July 04 2015 03:26 AsmodeusXI wrote:
My post definitely wasn't just "he's coming for me oh noez" but "he started completely on the me train with BM's randomness and then flipped ENTIRELY as people found a vote for me less appealing". That's what's weird to me. BM weirds me out too but Cixah's seems more sinister.

If I DID get mayor, he'd be my lynch atm. I just don't have a better candidate, especially since everyone seems way more aboard the dank memes team than I am. If that's how the town wants to play, okay, I just don't like the style.

If you genuinely think Dandel's the best choice, I want to hear why. I haven't heard a reason beyond vague assertions that his trolling is somehow a town play.

On July 04 2015 03:47 Lord Tolkien wrote:

And that is why I don't trust you with a position of leadership.

On July 04 2015 04:10 Dandel Ion wrote:
man do i actually have to explain it real logic like
ugh

I would real talk probably like 75% lynch asmo for
1)
2) His frankly puzzling stance on plotspot mayor - pushing a survivor/traitor based on his claim while caveating always a "oh but we should really try to find a townie!"
3) does not try to find a townie
4) pushing Cixah* like he did

Other options to contemplate are imo VE for getting baited* and then going full emo and pissing off
And Coma for not having opinions and instead doing summaries and captain obvious posting. real men admit when they don't have opinions and post memes. just look at hf. he is cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything
That's just from what I'm thinking, realistically I would never actually lynch coma today, if I was that desperate I'd just lynch the claimed traitor easy pickings ggyo real #dank

*I'm thinking cixah is noob town scumbait atm
as such not inclined to d1 lynch him personally
but if somebody else gets elected and killa him i would not shed tear 0/10

On July 04 2015 04:22 Lord Tolkien wrote:

Explanation for the bolded why


To be honest, the increasing lack of pushback on a 6ah lynch up until dandel posted his asmo case, with everyone just ambling towards it, is very fishy.

On July 04 2015 04:23 jcarlsoniv wrote:


I'm beginning to think they both might be noob bait, tbh. I'm getting similar feelings to last game when I tunneled Req. Yes, the way both of them have been acting is scummy. It's the same thing I read on Req. But I was also wrong then.

On July 04 2015 04:30 Lord Tolkien wrote:

It indicates one of two things.

1) easy lynch on town that scum is content on
2) + Show Spoiler +

Given how early the case on 6ah started to form, and, let's be honest, the fact that the game was suppose to be "not-tryhard", I doubt scum-team would bus 6ah this early.

Also, I do buy dandel's reasoning on asmo, though keeping in mind that asmo is also nub. Then again, he is Austrian, so this may lead to World War Two all over again if we elect him mayor. Still, my strongest town read.

On July 04 2015 04:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:
If Coma/6ah are actually scum team, then the mods is shit at balancing. And I will laugh.

On July 04 2015 05:13 jcarlsoniv wrote:


No, I mean, that's the issue. Although, to be frank, I don't remember his play last game being much of anything remarkable. But I do think he should know better, at least.

But I'm honestly starting to think LT is town (as much as I hate the arrogance). He is playing fairly similarly to the way you did last game - talk a lot, be aggressive, look at a lot of stuff. But the worst thing right now is the bullshit associations he's throwing everywhere.



I agree with you. Although Wave is partially right, with 4 hours left, janky things can happen with counter pressure. But the lack of resistance thus far is giving me pause as well.



Did you no longer wish to be mayor? Cuz yesterday, I said tomorrow.

On July 04 2015 05:32 Lord Tolkien wrote:

...fair enough.

On July 04 2015 05:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:


I suppose that's true. I keep forgetting mayor is choosing. Now I don't want to vote either you or dandel in for mayor though, I hate yolo plays.



GB started to contribute, enough that I was starting to consider him town, you gave him your seal of approval, and then he disappeared. You seem so set on getting some good info with this lynch, but I'm not really sure what you're after. If you're hoping to validate one of your association theories, it feels like you're still aiming for a long shot.

On July 04 2015 05:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:


nvm, I guess we're not on same page lol

On July 04 2015 05:57 Dandel Ion wrote:

right so we should do nothing

thx for your input

On July 04 2015 06:48 Lord Tolkien wrote:

In which case. I'm reversing my opinion of you.

On July 04 2015 09:28 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Wave, earlier in the day you said Dandel likes to troll as scum



He has made at least one good post, and has trolled a lot this game. Are you really invested in a yolo lynch then? I know you like flashy plays, though. Just ask the wizard you tried to poison.

On July 04 2015 10:08 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Main problem with the lynch is it leaves town with absolutely buttfuck all.

On July 04 2015 11:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Did anyone notice at the beginning if Wave complained about being town? I'd filter him, but phone and lazy.

No complaining = mafia
Complaining = town

if memory serves. Get on it minions.

On July 06 2015 02:13 Bill Murray wrote:
tolkien it's not 100% he died saving someone more like 15%

On July 06 2015 02:49 GlowingBear wrote:
I've been extremely busy, that's why I'm not posting much. I still have to catch up with the thread, I'm at page 21. I've been taking a look at the thread but no more than this.

Wave, a martyr dying in the night and you assuming you were protected AND basing that baseless wifom to scumread me because I could be AFRAID of you is extremely opportunistic

On July 04 2015 01:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
I am inherently untrustworthy of you because of this you know, GB.

Got them chills that some scum are content to call me shit for last game and others will be planning on kissing my ass just to separate themselves.

On July 06 2015 03:36 Lord Tolkien wrote:

I'm still loling over the fact you

1) doubt obvious town
2) think I would be scumteam with GB given our interactions

If we were scumteam we would have no interactions whatsoever.

On July 06 2015 03:39 GlowingBear wrote:


Those points doesn't consider other possibilities. It doesn't consider other people that could be looking townie, doesn't consider some soft claims. It also considers I'm afraid of Wave's play and that's why a whole team of Mafia shot him, which is completely baseless.

On July 06 2015 03:41 GlowingBear wrote:
Oops I meant to answer LT, not Soniv

I didn't have a meta read on him, I thought he was town, but I don't think town wave would be this stupid to rely on DOUBLE wifom to forge a scumread on me. It's horrid.

On July 06 2015 03:45 Lord Tolkien wrote:

"Afraid of Wave's play"

Do tell.


Mordek explicitly breadcrumbed he was defending a canadian at night. Your options are coma (lol) and wave. Assume mordek isn't braindead: which of the two would you think he'd defend? Yeah. So unless you believe he defended coma, he defended wave.

THEREFORE, either scum shot wave or mordek. Again, shooting the afker who's on vacation? lol. It gives less room for scum to hide, and mordek wasn't blue claiming if you read last OT mafia. The only ones who can possibly read that as blue claim are people who weren't in last OT mafia.

On July 06 2015 09:58 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok, I've read enough.

@Dandel: if you're trolly and you're town, why couldn't HF be?

I rescind my scumread on Wave. Although I believe he is not confirmed town, other scenarios are less likely (mordek being shot by mafia; mordek martyring someone else), and I had a town read on him before that I reinforced after reading more posts from him. He is actively trying to solve the game, which is townie.

##Unvote

But Wave, I'm town. Your assumption that I could be mafia afraid of you is wrong.

If I were mafia, I wouldn't shoot you. First: If I really was afraid of you, I would raise less suspicions on me if someone else died. If you flipped, this kind of association could happen. It would be safer for me if I don't shoot you. Second: if I'm scum, I'm part of a scum team that would be calling you a bad shot either way. If guys think you're this bad as people call you, why would my opinion overrule theirs? Third: it is completely WIFOM to try to understand scum motives to night kill people and you, as an experienced player, should know this.

I'll ask you this: if you disregard night kill, am I mafia or town, in your POV?

---

I don't like Tolkien jumping on my wagon after having a strong town meta read on me. THIS one feels opportunistic. Other than that, his posts feels very wishy washy. I don't really saw him doing much more than calling himself town and raising faint suspicions on people.

I also think every Cixah posts reek scummy. I've pointed out why and it's all on my filter.

Soniv, you had me as town. You're calling me scum out of inactivity. If you do not consider inactivity, do you feel I'm scum or town?

ComaDose... I don't know... he feels... scummy in some posts, but in others he feels like playing fluidly. I don't really know what to make of it

Bill is being useless and just following thread sentiment, or wasting his votes, like his mayor vote on Asmodeus. His jump on my wagon is pretty baseless, also. His vote on Asmodeus had no reevaluation and he isn't actively trying to solve the game. Probably scum.

I've seen VE playing like this as town and never saw him playing like this as mafia. He needs to shape up, tho.

Asmodeus is just like Bill. Not really contributing much, and there is that post I quoted from him that was, in a vacuum, null, but makes sense coming from a scum. Also, Bill voting for him as mayor is completely baseless and simply looks like scum following his own agenda.

My preferred target today is Cixah, since I can't see him coming from town perspective. Other than that, I could lynch Bill.

On July 04 2015 06:25 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I'm talking about GB that sentence sonib.

1) GB posted the most townie things after I gave him a VERY VERY SLIGHT town lean read (on plotspot bandwagon, etc). Also arguing about wave.

2) I'm relying on my meta of GB. I've only played 1 game with you, and you were a breadcrumbing blue role. pfft. can't tell nuthin from that.

On July 06 2015 11:05 AsmodeusXI wrote:
This bandwagon seems fairly unstoppable, so I'm in too.

Frankly, Wave's calls were my favorite beforehand and they'll continue to be until I see something weird.

##vote: GlowingBear

On July 06 2015 11:11 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Was I arrogant with you this game? I don't actually recall, but I don't think I was. I was intentionally trying to not rib you for last game, that's for out of/pre game.



I mean, what are your thoughts. Outside of specifically GB lynching, do you have any thoughts about other things in the thread?

On July 06 2015 11:59 Lord Tolkien wrote:
The fact that everyone on my shit list (you included) is voting for him, bar coma, speaks volumes, really.

Also his posts after his disaster beginning of D2 series is...better.

On July 07 2015 04:23 jcarlsoniv wrote:


I mean, I don't blame you, and honestly I'm torn. But this wouldn't be the first time I've gotten hung up on one lynch trying to nail a bigger fish behind him. You at least seem to have meta background on GB to add to your thoughts on how he defended himself.

But Cixah's last few posts have really made me reconsider.



Come at me bro. You ain't got nothin' on the Squigs

On July 06 2015 10:35 Cixah wrote:
##vote glowing bear

This still doesn't sit right and feels weird. Glowingbears defense reads flimsy to me. They're are lots of alagations against him but he flips on the same paragraph specifically leaving things brought against him open. I will vote like this for now and hope to be surprised tomorrow.

On July 07 2015 05:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Most egregious for me is how shaky Cixah says he is about GB vote, but how content he is to jump on the wagon when no other alternative pops up.

On July 07 2015 05:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm interested in the statement "...this that work in real life don't work here" or something by Cixah. It implies that he tried to do something (either to lose heat, or to get a read, or to convince someone) and it didn't work. I'd like to know what it is.

On July 07 2015 05:22 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Would you do the same thing? Or would you try to find scum rather than just bandwagoning onto someone you don't actually think is scum.

At the time Cixah disappeared, he wasn't in the lead for votes, GB still was. At this point, with myself and GB voting Cixah, I think the zombie is now up for lynch, but I'm not 100% because we ain't got no vote count post. If there isn't one by the time I get settled at home, I'll probably put one together.

As I said earlier, rolling over and giving up when you're not even the top lynch candidate looks worse to me.

On July 07 2015 05:28 GlowingBear wrote:
Why aren't you even trying, wave?
I have no idea why are you voting me other than night kill wifom
Then I bring a case with five points and you don't even bother reading it to further analyse my alignment
Then you simply answer Soniv "ugh, I found a bad post" and instead realising the guy is Mafia, you simply say that you can see him coming from town perspective and keeps your vote on me LOL.
Why do you can evaluate him from both perspectives but I'm Mafia and that's all?

On July 07 2015 05:27 plotspot wrote:
yay, you guys are on the right track, something about Cixah always felt suspicious. And then that afk excuse. He's gotta be mafia here.

Vote: Cixah

On July 07 2015 05:32 GlowingBear wrote:
Wave please, look at my case. I KNOW Cixah is Mafia. Pleaser look at it. There isn't other perspective.

On July 07 2015 05:39 Cixah wrote:
Cool, I'm probs lynched so here's the general post dump for town before I die.

I am the town tracker.

What is most unfortunate about this is that I was role blocked while checking dandel last night so I have 0 information to give you. Other than of course there is a role blocker in the game. My current town circle consists of Lt, soniv, and wave. Everyone else feels really scummy or isn't posting at all. Currently have 3 or 4 votes on me and we have no protection so I'm likely to just die in the night anyway. Game is hard, ect ect.

As for what I've been trying to do this whole game is just convince people I'm town because for some reason everyone is drinking the GB wine and trying to just claim I'm scum for no reason at all other than to save his skin. My preferred lynch today is GB, I would also look into VE and asmo as his scum partners.

As for checking dandel it was to hopefully make sure that he is in fact town, however I have no information at all. I'm a little unsure how the godfather role works or if it is even in the game but it is possible that I would just be role blocked for checking him by some other passive part of the game.

Have fun!

On July 07 2015 05:42 plotspot wrote:
Cixah, you af322gv2g, I was trying to lure out more people scumreading you, wtf are you doing? It's still 4 hours left.

On July 07 2015 05:44 jcarlsoniv wrote:
oh god this again

##unvote

On July 07 2015 05:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Yeah, I know, but last time we hadn't seen a medic flip, right? Martyr is already dead here, so it's a hard call to make - if it's a real claim, we're out two blues. Honestly, I don't have that much experience with claims/fake claims.

On July 07 2015 05:49 GlowingBear wrote:
He claimed under pressure and he tried to track Dandel. It doesn't make sense to me.
Why wouldn't he track another guy he was suspecting and was coasting, like Bill Murray or even asmo? Why traxking someone who would probably never carry kp after lynching town Holyflare?

His claim is most likely fake

On July 07 2015 05:49 GlowingBear wrote:
He claimed under pressure and he tried to track Dandel. It doesn't make sense to me.
Why wouldn't he track another guy he was suspecting and was coasting, like Bill Murray or even asmo? Why traxking someone who would probably never carry kp after lynching town Holyflare?

His claim is most likely fake

On July 07 2015 05:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Yeah, I know, but last time we hadn't seen a medic flip, right? Martyr is already dead here, so it's a hard call to make - if it's a real claim, we're out two blues. Honestly, I don't have that much experience with claims/fake claims.

On July 07 2015 06:05 GlowingBear wrote:


I've explained RIGHT AFTER the bolded.

Your constant misrepresentation of me and your attitude towards my play is really getting me on my nerves and I can't stop thinking you might be Mafia just by that. It's just like Holyflare in the Himalaya's game

On July 07 2015 06:17 VisceraEyes wrote:

rereading this it sounds bad. I didn't mean to imply that wave is INCAPABLE of putting 2 and 2 together, only that I've witnessed him get tunneled so hard that he misses obvious things. It's not out of his range is what I meant.

Just for clarification.

On July 13 2015 12:27 AsmodeusXI wrote:


No, but I didn't like him from the start but since EVERYONE ELSE seemed to trust him I was all "okay, they must see something I don't" and didn't bother pursuing him from a "trolls are scummers" angle.

I mean, it's not great logic, because I still probably would've lynched HF first so idk.