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Kickstart
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I would still consider myself a newbie though I've played in 2 games (i think :/) that weren't newbie specific iirc (sorry it has been quite some time since I played and I'm not sure what the best way to check is, maybe I'll check my post history later but I'll have to do quite the digging as it has been awhile). edit: well I looked through the database, I've played 4 games total, looks like in 3 newbie games, they were back in 2012 though :D. But I think I should be able to pick it up quickly. | ||
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On June 01 2015 08:54 justanothertownie wrote: So you are offended on behalf of others? To be fair most people should be offended. Just saying you are busy is fine, but implying no one interesting (aka good enough to be worth playing with) is on the player list is a pretty salty thing to do and just needlessly rude. I just don't care either way because I don't know any of the signed up players either and I'ts been 2 1/2 years since I played mafia on here. | ||
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On June 01 2015 09:47 justanothertownie wrote: Well, that's nice and all but I did say nothing of this sort so I think you should take your misplaced anger elsewhere. I also don't know why you think I would be salty about anything. Fact is this playerlist contains mostly newbies/smurfs and I prefer playing with players I know. Nothing to do with skill level. Not angry, I said I don't particularly care either way. You said the player list wasn't enticing which means that regardless of why you don't want to play with this particular player list, the fact remains you stated that you have no interest in playing with this player list. So I'll take your word that you weren't implying that no one is good so therefor the game isn't worth being in for you, but you were still needlessly rude to the players in the game by saying the playerlist isn't enticing. But this is pretty irrelevant, I'm just waiting for the game to start. Good luck in your studies. | ||
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On June 01 2015 10:18 justanothertownie wrote: Being rude is just my nature/what I do. Ask batsnacks. Don't worry, in my previous games I built the reputation of just raging at everyone. But since it's been 2 1/2 years Ill try to keep the good aspects of what I was doing but drop the rage and calling everyone retards. I was even dubbed 'Dickstart' =] | ||
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On June 01 2015 11:49 Fecalfeast wrote: I was supposed to do something for this game I think Do something magical like auto confirm everyone else so we can begin soon. I just wanna plaaaaaaaaaaaaay. | ||
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On June 01 2015 17:39 disformation wrote: Would anyone be up for being shadowed by me?^^ (feels like a strange thing to ask xD) If you mean just knowing what my role is when they are passed out I wouldn't mind, assuming of course that you keep the information safe and that the hosts see no issues with this! That being said I probably am not the best person to watch anyways if you are trying to learn D: (have only 4 games played on here and they were in late 2012 lol). | ||
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On June 02 2015 02:00 disformation wrote: I think shadowing also gives you opportunity to talk to the guy you are shadowing, so he can explain his reasons/reads to you. Some ppl have suggested to me that shadowing would be better for learning the game than just obsing.  I am currently in my 2nd game here, NSM X. I hope you don't mind me taking up Damdred's offer over yours? I would like to take you up on that offer. Any special /commands I need to do for this?^^ Yeah I think communication would be fine, but I would think that it would almost have to be a 1 way road. THat is the person actually playing can explain what he is thinking/doing to you but you would have to say as little as possible to him (esp if you are in communication with people outside of this thread for the game - i.e. coaches or obs threads etc). | ||
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On June 02 2015 05:33 NydusHerMain wrote: /confirm yesss~!!!!! now where is the last person :@ | ||
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On June 02 2015 07:58 disformation wrote: Well, I think the host will provide the rules for that and I will happily oblige. Like I don't think you can obs and shadow at the same time. Yeah, I just think that even if you have no information but are allowed to carry on conversations with the person you are shadowing, the person you are talking with gets an advantage because they now have an extra perspective on the game that is not their own. | ||
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On June 02 2015 14:08 mtamburini2 wrote: Im here but am going on vacation on friday so I dont think Ill be able to meet the requirements of "activity" Alright well it is probably best that someone replaces in then I guess :o. But thanks for being honest and not playing when you will be gone :D. | ||
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A good town environment is one in which no one is allowed to lurk or be passive and not post much of their thoughts. While I honestly don't know any of the players in this game I believe some are new so to them and to everyone else, you have to post. Whether you are 100% sure in your reads or not, posting is good for town. Even if your reads are wrong, being active is good for town to figure out the game. I refuse to allow the game to be a passive one where several people are lurking and not being active and contributing to the conversation because that automatically makes the game harder on town and lessens town's win chance. The 10 post per cycle rule enacted by the host is a good first step but I think it is up to us to make sure that people don't abuse the rule by just posting the minimum number of times and saying nothing of substance. Now what I said applies to every game of course, an active town is always better than a passive town with several lurkers; but I particularly wanted to lead in with this point because I already feel like we might be heading in the direction of a passive/inactive town. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock: Damdred and Tictock already posted before the start of the game that they might not be active. Here are Dam's and TT's posts I am referring to: On June 01 2015 12:51 Tictock wrote: + Show Spoiler + /confirm Not very motivated atm, might pick up as the game goes on, we'll see sorry Thankfully they have both said that they are just sort of busy at the start but will have more time and be more active. I just want to urge them both to be as active as they can from the start, that way everyone can gets reads on them and we don't let them both through just because they aren't active in the first phase but might be in the phases after. Just to be clear though, I am not accusing either of you nor am I suspicious of you for it, because those statements are clearly not alignment indicative because they were made before the game began and people had their roles. I am just saying that I refuse to allow the game to devolve into a passive town game with people lurking and posting nothing of substance and those events already have me worried that we may find ourselves in that position. So I urge you, along with everyone else, to be as active as you can, even if you are strapped for time. Now that that is out of the way, could those who have played in games with some of the other people in the game (or if you know them) tell me who the strong players? I haven't played mafia on here since 2012 so I have no idea who the good players are and I think knowing this is helpful. I know this request seems a bit scummy ("Oh you wan't to know who the good players are so you can get rid of them!") but I will just concede that and say that knowing who is good tells everyone that those players: a) should not be lurking because if they are good they are usually always active in their games (so if they are lurking and posting not much substance it will be suspicious), and, b) they would be valuable assets (so we should expect strong town play from them and we would expect mafia to try and get rid of them), both good pieces of information for town. That is all I have for now, get to posting and being active everyone! :D | ||
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On June 03 2015 06:10 Tictock wrote: @ Kick It has always been my policy to deal with inactives by reading their actual posts that much harder. The idea is that if they are only willing to share a small amount of thoughts or thinking then we should take those posts even more literally/seriously. My point is that we need to foster an environment that doesn't allow inactivity, this is clearly the best environment to have and thus we should strive for it. How we will deal with people that are inactive anyways is another matter. Also people should, eventually, share most of their thoughts. Holding back your thoughts initially to build on them is fine, I already find some things scummy but I am waiting to add to this so as not to let the person/people I find scummy change what they are doing so soon. On June 03 2015 06:12 ritoky wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:02 Kickstart wrote: I just want to go ahead and get this out. A good town environment is one in which no one is allowed to lurk or be passive and not post much of their thoughts. While I honestly don't know any of the players in this game I believe some are new so to them and to everyone else, you have to post. Whether you are 100% sure in your reads or not, posting is good for town. Even if your reads are wrong, being active is good for town to figure out the game. I refuse to allow the game to be a passive one where several people are lurking and not being active and contributing to the conversation because that automatically makes the game harder on town and lessens town's win chance. The 10 post per cycle rule enacted by the host is a good first step but I think it is up to us to make sure that people don't abuse the rule by just posting the minimum number of times and saying nothing of substance. Now what I said applies to every game of course, an active town is always better than a passive town with several lurkers; but I particularly wanted to lead in with this point because I already feel like we might be heading in the direction of a passive/inactive town. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock: Damdred and Tictock already posted before the start of the game that they might not be active. Here are Dam's and TT's posts I am referring to: Thankfully they have both said that they are just sort of busy at the start but will have more time and be more active. I just want to urge them both to be as active as they can from the start, that way everyone can gets reads on them and we don't let them both through just because they aren't active in the first phase but might be in the phases after. Just to be clear though, I am not accusing either of you nor am I suspicious of you for it, because those statements are clearly not alignment indicative because they were made before the game began and people had their roles. I am just saying that I refuse to allow the game to devolve into a passive town game with people lurking and posting nothing of substance and those events already have me worried that we may find ourselves in that position. So I urge you, along with everyone else, to be as active as you can, even if you are strapped for time. Now that that is out of the way, could those who have played in games with some of the other people in the game (or if you know them) tell me who the strong players? I haven't played mafia on here since 2012 so I have no idea who the good players are and I think knowing this is helpful. I know this request seems a bit scummy ("Oh you wan't to know who the good players are so you can get rid of them!") but I will just concede that and say that knowing who is good tells everyone that those players: a) should not be lurking because if they are good they are usually always active in their games (so if they are lurking and posting not much substance it will be suspicious), and, b) they would be valuable assets (so we should expect strong town play from them and we would expect mafia to try and get rid of them), both good pieces of information for town. That is all I have for now, get to posting and being active everyone! :D saw good town environment, stopped reading. ![[image loading]](http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h38/mrcrapinson/GregFart.gif~original) Can you clarify please? I think you mean you basically eyerolled at my post at the second line and didn't bother reading it. Could you clarify what you meant, and in the future not post your thought in the form of GIFs and images? | ||
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@ ritoky Please stop expressing thoughts in this manner, if you want to add them on at the end fine, but posting only an image or gif, or only a one liner followed by an image/gif is in no way helpful. | ||
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Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started. | ||
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On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote: My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote: Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ milo Can you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote: I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote: Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature: ##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. | ||
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On June 02 2015 22:51 GlowingBear wrote: There is a minimum activity required of 10 posts per cycle (in other words, 10 post per 72 hours), which is already low. I don't like games where people have so much low activity that it is impossible to have an idea of his/her alignment. The only way to play forum Mafia is to write posts. If there are no posts, there is no game. I've talked to mtamburini and he will be on the replacement list. So there is one spot for any player who wants to sign in How strict they will be on the 10 required posts per cycle is up to them, but that is what I was referring to earlier. | ||
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On June 03 2015 06:53 milo109 wrote: @ milo Can you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. Pretty sure I explained above. I'm not comfortable reading people scummy yet, due to that lack of information. I am certainly not convinced that ritoky is town from the way he has played. I see no reason not to pressure him. [/QUOTE] Just to be clear, DO NOT EDIT THAT POST (against the rules), but you should preview your posts before posting ;]. I will help everyone out, he basically responded to my post: On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote: My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote: Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ milo Can you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote: I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote: Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature: ##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. with this: On June 03 2015 06:53 milo109 wrote: Pretty sure I explained above. I'm not comfortable reading people scummy yet, due to that lack of information. I am certainly not convinced that ritoky is town from the way he has played. I see no reason not to pressure him. Unfortunatly milo this again makes no sense to me, you say you are not comfortable reading people scummy yet throw a vote on him because you just said you don't think (or you aren't convinced) that he is town, which means you DID in fact read him as scummy. But an even bigger issue than that for me is that that is not what you said when you threw down the vote, you threw down the vote because you didn't like his posting, and as I said, you had no way of knowing if this was his usual posting and thus the vote was NOT a vote on who you thought was scummy, even though now you seem to be trying to indicate that it was. I do not like your actions and I do not find this explanation from you satisfactory. ##Vote: milo109 | ||
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On June 03 2015 07:07 ritoky wrote: why are you worried about people accusing you of being on a wagon if you think he is scum? wat? Because from my limited experience on here, hoping on a wagon is the ultimate sin. But I guess you are right, I did do it with ample justification and pressure beforehand. | ||
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On June 03 2015 07:10 ritoky wrote: well technically you're not even on it, i am the only one who has voted in the entire game. #rektnerd True, I'm dumb =[ | ||
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@sicklucker What are your thoughts on the milo developments? | ||
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On June 03 2015 07:18 milo109 wrote: I'm not exactly sure how to defend myself here. I decided to vote because I didn't like ritoky's play style. I made it clear that it was not for reasons of reads. I cannot justify my vote in terms of reads, as I've already said. If you lynch me for that, it's fine. Actual reads so far that I can justify: I don't like the use of the word 'Unfortunately' in Kickstart's accusation of me. It seems to be an attempt to come from the point of view of a paternal town, who only sadly pronounces judgement. It's possible that he actually feels that way, but it feels scummy to me. I'll read Damdred town for now just based off his questioning of me. He caught my mistake of logic, while Ritoky and Kickstart both seem to just dislike my vote. Ritoky is still null for me. Still don't like the playstyle. Still keeping my vote. No idea on the others. It just gets worse and worse. My use of 'unfortunately' was me indicating that for you, it is unfortunate that your first post wasn't convincing to me and I was pointing out that "Unfortunatly milo this again makes no sense to me,...", saying that your explanation was again not making sense to me. Also interesting that you are unsure of if I'm putting on a front, or as you put it, "It's possible that he actually feels that way". What from me would indicate that I do not feel this way lol? I find the fact that you are scum reading me based only on the fact that I have a vote on you suspicious as well, though it is a thing new players tend to do. Another issue is that while you read me scummy for voting you, you said that ritocky, for the exact same reason is null to you???? But then you are sticking to your original mistake and just doubling down on your scummy vote by stating "Still don't like the playstyle. Still keeping my vote." All of this makes no sense. Also want to make sure I point out the alignment with Damdred you just made, which I want to hear more about because while I haven't been specifically keeping an eye on what he had to say to and/or about you, nothing jumped out at me. | ||
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On June 03 2015 07:25 milo109 wrote: Not exactly sure what your point is. I don't think you're necessarily mafia for voting me. I've not given you any grief for that. You have the same justification to vote me that I have to vote on you. Aside from that, I don't see a contradiction. Like ritocky I see many contradictions, some of which I just pointed out. But you just made the same contradiction by saying you don't think he is necessarily mafia for voting on you, yet that seems to be exactly why you've thrown a scum read on me. | ||
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On June 03 2015 07:33 NydusHerMain wrote: Okay so I was formatting and pressed the wrong button.... to save myself the embarassment... I'm just going to barebone the rest -_- .... Even though I said I didn't like Kickstarter, I also, funny enough, don't like Ritoky. His playstyle is just something I'm willing to vote on irrelevant of alignment. If we lynch him and he flips mafia, I'll gladly take the credit. If he flips town, I gladly take the blame. I have a town read on Milo, I liked his reaction to Damdred and I liked that he was pressuring Ritoky (or at least attempting to). I don't see what's scummy about him to Kickstarter. Everything he says seems genuine to me. Also, I'm kind of glad I pressed post by accident because I'm not a very frequent poster (I usually just post big WoTs or at least plan to) and I was scared I wouldn't meet the 10 posts per 72 hours rule. Phew.... See you guys again in 9 hours since I just need to make 1 post per 9 hours to meet the quota for this cycle. PEACE The rest of your post is even more odd to me. For one you just aligned yourself with Milo, for seemingly no reason (and I will also point out that you specifically mentioned his reaction to Damdred which was exactly what milo used as a town read on Damred but which is something that didn't stick out at all to me). Right now I clearly see a milo, Nydus, Damdred connection here which I find really odd given that, in my opinion, nothing has happened for you three to align yourselves like this. To be fair, Damdred has said nothing to align himself with them Nydus but there is a slight connection there in that these 3 seem to be thinking alike and making the same points. @Damdred Can you give detailed thoughts on milo and Nydus strange posts? Also, while I'm posting this Damdred also defended milo, making the link between them 2 even stronger. Another thing about your post that I quoted Nydus is that I really don't like that you said you are willing to vote ritocky just because you don't like his posting. Scum are the ones who don't care who is lynched, and the fact that you state that you don't care if he is town and is lynched is not an opinion a towns person should have. | ||
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On June 03 2015 07:15 Kickstart wrote: Where has SL gone?! @sicklucker What are your thoughts on the milo developments? But you did agree with Damdred that the milo stuff is being blown out of proportion so I guess that answers my question anyways. | ||
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On June 03 2015 07:52 NydusHerMain wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 07:43 Kickstart wrote: The rest of your post is even more odd to me. For one you just aligned yourself with Milo, for seemingly no reason (and I will also point out that you specifically mentioned his reaction to Damdred which was exactly what milo used as a town read on Damred but which is something that didn't stick out at all to me). Right now I clearly see a milo, Nydus, Damdred connection here which I find really odd given that, in my opinion, nothing has happened for you three to align yourselves like this. To be fair, Damdred has said nothing to align himself with them Nydus but there is a slight connection there in that these 3 seem to be thinking alike and making the same points. @Damdred Can you give detailed thoughts on milo and Nydus strange posts? Also, while I'm posting this Damdred also defended milo, making the link between them 2 even stronger. Another thing about your post that I quoted Nydus is that I really don't like that you said you are willing to vote ritocky just because you don't like his posting. Scum are the ones who don't care who is lynched, and the fact that you state that you don't care if he is town and is lynched is not an opinion a towns person should have. HAHAHAHA loaded question much? Anyways, I didn't completely flesh out my Milo townread because I was kind of annoyed that I hit post before I even finished posting and when I was about to edit, I remembered it was against the rules. To me, I think he's defending himself decently against both you and Ritoky, and his vote on Ritoky didn't feel out of place. I saw it as a pressure vote and didn't see it as anything he was going to keep forever unless he continued to see Ritoky as scummy. When someone called him out for contradiction, he admitted to making the mistake pretty quickly and I don't think that it's scummy to be stuck making a logic error. If he tried to stick with the error and pretend that it was correct, then I would think he was scummy but he did the opposite. That makes sense I guess. I would still like you to explain why you stated you would be fine voting ritocky just because you don't like his posting. I find it scummy that you stated you don't care if ritocky is town or scum but that you would be happy having him gone either way, so I would still like you to expand on this... | ||
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On June 03 2015 08:01 ritoky wrote: hey GB, can you make it so the player list in the OP has filters in it? ty For me, in every persons post there is a 'filter' link in their post (top right in the whitespace), don't know if that is there in every browser or whatever but it is what I've been using. Also I agree that it is pretty scum slippy for someone to post like Nydus did (Ill just vote off X person and I don't care their alignment) and thus probably doesn't make him scum, but I would have still liked for him to explain it :D. | ||
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On June 03 2015 08:09 milo109 wrote: Now that I have a second to evaluate the game without immediate fear of being lynched... I don't think that Chocolate is necessarily mafia for his one post. It's possible he had to go, and he was basing his read on Tiktok off of two posts. It seems a fine opener. Not sure if I like VE attempting to turn attention to someone unable to defend himself. Nydus is my white knight, and I'm sure that will skew my opinion of him but he seems town just from the irreverent way he gave his reads. I still don't like Kickstarter. I didn't like the tone of his accusation, and the way he quickly attempted to insure he wasn't thought of 'bandwagoning on me' as if he knew I would flip town. I'll just say that I agree with the point about Chocolate. His one post and then short afk time afterwards in my mind isn't a real indication of anything. I also second the Nydus stuff, I think his posting thus far puts him at slightly town; I just don't like that Nydus already doeesn't like me but hey what can I do. I think you are reading way too much into my "tone", whatever than means. Not being particularly fond of me at this point in time because I railed really hard on you so far is reasonable but I would ask that you try and see what I posted from a a perspective other than "He railed on me hard therefor I don't like him", you even conceded that you were using poor logic and you aren't even mad at ritocky for doing more or less the same thing (yet your vote is still there). I don't think your read on what I was saying is at all correct but as I said I guess it is expected for you to not like me much after I went hard on you for a bit. But do you have any scum reads on anyone other than me? You've yet to come out and say anyone is scummy to you (aside from me I guess). | ||
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Can you point out which point of milos you think is really good? Maybe I'm just slow but I can't figure out which one. | ||
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On June 03 2015 08:22 Damdred wrote: ...just as my last post suggests, the last point he makes is a good point. Sigh, that still doesnt clear it up for me, I assume you mean his point about me then? I mean it is his last 'point' but I really didn't see it as a point, I guess im just biased, but if everyone else knew what point you were referring to I'll just shut up | ||
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See milo doesn't know which point you meant either LOL ^^ | ||
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On June 03 2015 08:38 Fidei86 wrote: @milo I still think it's a strange thing to say, and also a strange thing to think, especially as the game was only a couple of pages old and most people hadn't even posted by that stage. Still, I can understand why someone might say it out of frustration rather than any ulterior motive. Just a note, I'm heading to bed now (it's past midnight). I'll catch up on posts in a couple of hours when I wake up. Apologies for not having more to say from the get-go, this is my first game and I'm having trouble just keeping up with all the back-and-forth, let alone getting enough to get any good reads on people. Fair enough, when you wake and have time to read through, may I ask that you give some reads, regardless of whether or not you think they are 'good reads' . As I said at the very beginning, don't be afraid to post because of being new, giving information for town to work with both helps town get a read on you and makes you an active part of the town. So yeah, just whenever you get up can you give some specific reads on whomever you can. I would also like to get some specific town/scum reads from people who haven't given any at this point because I feel that there is a decent amount of stuff to work with. Again, whether you think your reads are iron clad reads isn't relevant, I would rather you give us something to work with than nothing at all. | ||
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Anyways my point is that the aggressive vibe people are getting from me is pretty normal (and I'm trying to keep it down and away from blatant hostility like I was prone to do before). So it is normal for me and not alignment indicative (though just to stroke my ego I would posit that I was most aggressive in the xxxii that I linked and that I had the game solved day 1 before the day1 flip even took place; /egostroking ^^). | ||
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On June 03 2015 08:47 Damdred wrote: I'm curious why you want so many strong reads from people so early when a lot of thing a are just pure null. He'll I only have 1 really town read, one lean some nulls that are almost leans and one scummy feeling. I want reads, whether they are strong or not is secondary. I even specified that I just wanted stuff to work with so I don't expect ironclad cases or anything, I just want stuff to work with. And while you may think a lot of things are null, I think there is plenty to work with for people to at least give opinions. | ||
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If you are asking for my strongest leaning I would still say milo is my strongest scum read, though I have thoughts on a few others I intend to reveal a bit later. I want to see if they post more before they know I am suspicious of them. | ||
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On June 03 2015 09:25 Damdred wrote: Also everyone is demanding more and more reads from him but the main person who,keeps screaming for,more reads gives one leaves thread promises more comes back and doesn't deliver and,nobody talks about it. I said it would take me awhile, I am still making the post. You lot sure are impatient. I also don't see your scum reads on anyone :rollseyes: Anyways I've only gotten so far as to reiterate and add on my milo read, adding in my other reads now so be patient. | ||
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On milo I of course posted earlier on but as I indicated earlier his posts since then I have still found suspect. I may be tunneling him way too hard but I am just being honest that he is still my main scum read. My main thoughts on him are here, most relevant parts are bolded: On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote: My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote: Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ milo Can you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote: I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote: Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature: ##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. To summarize this post, his initial vote on ritocky I found suspect because he made it just because he didn't like his posting without first trying to figure out if this was normal. He had no way of knowing if this was normal from rickoty, but unlike me who tried to figure out if it was normal before making a decision, he straight up throws down a vote because he just doesn't like it. The editing in my post where I voted on him is so wonky I can't figure it out. Regardless, at that point my most relevant point is that milo was again contradicting himself: On June 03 2015 07:01 Kickstart wrote: Unfortunatly milo this again makes no sense to me, you say you are not comfortable reading people scummy yet throw a vote on him because you just said you don't think (or you aren't convinced) that he is town, which means you DID in fact read him as scummy. But an even bigger issue than that for me is that that is not what you said when you threw down the vote, you threw down the vote because you didn't like his posting, and as I said, you had no way of knowing if this was his usual posting and thus the vote was NOT a vote on who you thought was scummy, even though now you seem to be trying to indicate that it was. I do not like your actions and I do not find this explanation from you satisfactory. ##Vote: milo109 To be fair to milo he has explained these contradictions and even conceded them. Since then I also haven't liked that he said he didn't find ritocky voting for him scummy yet in my mind that is the only (or at least the main) reason that he reads me as scummy, but again I am biased here. I also found his claim that Chocolate was unable to defend himself weird but VE was able to point that out before me. Saying he is unable to defend himself just makes no sense in any situation at all, even if he was afk at the time its forum mafia, he could come back and read it. Anyways, aside from milo the next person I was suspicious of (slight scum read on) is sicklucker. On sicklucker His very first part I found suspect: On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote: ##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town Since I've not played with him I don't know how much he was joking or whatever, which I tried to clarify by asking if people had played with each other and what the tictock voting was about but really I didn't get a real explanation on the tictock vote imo, I guess he kind of hinted that TT annoyed him in another game, not sure. Aside from the vote though, the immediate "I am ok with policy voting until he proves hes town" was weird to me. I guess talking about policy voting is not that unusual but for one TT has been active enough for a policy vote based on activity to not apply and secondly I think just coming out and trying to push policy vote is weird. I just read it as SL being ok with just voting on policy instead of hunting for scum. The fact that his vote remains on TT and he hasn't pushed anyone for information or anything just adds to my suspicion that he would rather vote based on policy than hunt for actual scum. My other main gripe is that he was quite active, but posting mostly one-liners with not much substance at all. He was clearly here the entire time at the start but didn't weigh in on what was going on, which I find weird since there was a lot of discussion happening. His only two posts sharing his thoughts were these: On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote: I dont rly like kickstarter either. Way to tryhard for a first post for my liking. On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote: I agree but its so unlike you to defend a person The first one is suspect because he doesn't like someone for being "too tryhard". How does that even make sense. Aside from it being me he is suspicious of, someone being "too tryhard" is actually good I would say. So that was weird. I guess his post directed at Damdred isn't as odd but even here he doesn't post any of his own thoughts, just says "I agree", he does say Damdred is doing something odd in defending another player. I do not know how true that statement is as I have not played with Damdred, maybe someone else can comment on if SL is correct here. TL:DR Top scum reads are milo and sicklucker atm (while im typing this I'm still checking the thread and milo just throwing "i Don't think you are town" at VE is funny too, but whatever). I don't really think town reads are important at this point, but I will just say who I get slight town reads from. Again though, this is just who I probably wouldn't vote on today as what they have done thus far doesn't indicate them being scummy to me, it doesn't mean I have them pegged as town and won't ever vote or pressure them. But so far I mostly like ritocky and VE. I know I was somewhat annoyed with ritocky's posting at the start but since then it has been fine, he has spurred a lot of discussion, asked good questions, and been forthright with his opinions and thoughts. VE has done the same as far as spurring discussion and being open with his thoughts, both of which I like and think are important. | ||
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Also I think the only person who hasn't said anything at all so far is Onegu, which is quite good as far as activity goes from my past experiences. As long as Onegu and a few others give some detailed thoughts in this day period (main people I want to hear from at this point I guess are Onegu and fidei as they have given us the least to work with imo. I also want to hear more actual reads and opinions from SL, Damdred, and scott). | ||
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I summarize because if you couldn't tell, I have a tendency to post a lot and post large posts :D. I have said what my other games are, you can check them and you will see I did the same there. | ||
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On June 03 2015 10:18 Tictock wrote: Ok Kick, you looking more towny now, after those reads. I can help explain why SL is voting me, though you've already guessed at it. He is just mad becuase I have tunneled him the past 2 games I played. Oddly I've done it for the same one liners and "I'm town" statements that you are doing now. Since you've stated you've been looking into past games there's a paranoid voice in me going "He's trying to pocket you" since your agreeing with what I've always scummed him for, but that seems far fetched. My general stance on SL, is that he seems to do those things as either alignment. Him being useless is just him playing the game. Hope that doesn't sound mean, I have given him ample opportunity to correct my opinion of him, but I don't think he can let go of the ego. Haha, sl sure isnt going to like that but I appreciate the honesty and it gives me more to work with on him. Also, full disclosure, I've not looked into anyones past games yet, and am not sure if I will :D, perhaps later on if I want more to work with but so far my general questions about players in the game have been addressed by just asking them here. | ||
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On June 03 2015 10:27 sicklucker wrote: tictock has not even seen me as scum... At least in completely games we have played. So like hes just saying things but he does that as town tbh. Im really pissed off and probably wont be of any use for awile Is it cruel that you made me lol =[. Don't take it personally. I actually find it interesting that even though you are both going at each other you have both basically said that the other does this as town, that is helpful. Don't get discouraged and not post =[ I in fact found that last post to be quite honest, more posts like that is all we want! Being a recluse isn't going to help and is just going to cast more suspicion on yourself, but if you need a break and will post more tomorrow or whatever that is cool too, just do so before the deadline!!! | ||
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As an aside I like to try and keep everyone aware of when I will be sleeping or away for extended periods so before I go to sleep I will probably say so so that people know I will be gone for a bit. Time to go lose MMR :@ | ||
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On June 03 2015 10:41 Chocolate wrote: I don't play forum mafia very much but I don't like the idea of having town reads. To me that seems somewhat counter-productive since at this point any player could be town. It's easy for a scum player to post in a "town-friendly" way (which is I think a reiteration of the "tryhard" vibe). I believe it would be much more productive for people to look for scum reads than to try to identify people as town @ VE do you have any opinions about people other than me and milo After addressing everyone getting a tryhard/bossy vibe from me, do you still find me suspicious? Does my defense that this is normal from me change your opinion at all? I agree with the town reads part, that is why I don't like to give them this early but since I was asked for opinions on more than just milo i did give a few. Do you still find scott and myself to be most suspicious or has that changed? | ||
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On June 03 2015 10:46 Damdred wrote: Actually the charges levels against me are meh, I've taken plenty of stances mostly town reads.... You call it middle of the road becauseee....idk haha. Anyway yeah I'll town read more people later figure out who I want to lynch in... 18 hours probably maybe 30. Well I think the main issue I and others have with this is that generally speaking, and especially day1, scum reads are way more helpful than town reads. And from what I recall you haven't really called anyone out as being suspicious to you or of giving you a scum read. And on a go through of your filter it is quite void of content in my opinion. That is to say you dont even really give town reads, all you said was milo is on the high end of null and that I am on the low end of null (assuming you mean milo is slightly town and Im slightly scum to you). Point is that while you have asked some questions and pushed some people for reads, you haven't stuck your neck out on anything at all. | ||
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On June 03 2015 10:49 Chocolate wrote: I'd appreciate some reads from Onegu as well. ##vote VisceraEyes Curious what others think about him tunneling me and milo As for milo's "scum slip" if you read the thread it was only after I had said I was away that milo said I was away. I don't understand VE's logic here at all. For a veteran player you're playing pretty dumb imo I find the VE vote really weird, I and I'm pretty sure a few others have expressed a slight town read on him, or find that he has at least been beneficial in that he has spurred discussion and been open and forthright with his thoughts. I know there is a tendency to scum read people who are scum reading you, but aside from that what about VEs posting has been suspicious to you? Because I find his points about both you and milo to be valid. | ||
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But mostly I would like for you to expand on why your vote is on VE! | ||
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On June 03 2015 10:54 Damdred wrote: Except I called Milo town just a few posts ago. Town hinting if you are good at it can be just as helpful as scum hinting. So you don't like it that's to bad that's how I play early and it nets me finding scum through poe or at least lets me find the right filters to look through. I don't want to harp on this much as I don't find it helpful. If you prefer to give town reads over scum reads that is fine, but either way, you haven't given strong reads in any direction at this point. That said, is milo still slight town and I still slight scum to you? Are there any other reads you can give besides us two at this point? | ||
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On June 03 2015 10:57 Damdred wrote: Ummmm idk if you know this or not but most wagons up to hour 12 in the cycle (12 hours left before end of day) generally don't get lynched. Most serious cases are presented and pushed at that point when more information is I'm thread generally. If you disagree with how I approach early game that's fine but I generally don't put weakass scum reads in the thread lol Except you did, you said I was slightly scummy =]. But I already asked for more reads from you, if you don't want to give anything at this point in time that is your prerogative. I just hope you will present a "serious case" as you call it if you don't wish to give reads now. Again though, anyone who takes a look at your filter will agree with me I think, in that you aren't taking strong stances. Maybe someone else can weigh in on if that is normal for you, as I would have no way of knowing. | ||
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On June 03 2015 11:02 Damdred wrote: Don't discount my ultimate ritoky read now. Who knows I'll figure out who I think is s um when I'm on a comp. Scotts up ij scum, you are slightly above scum undecided. Ah I take it you are posting from a phone or something , then everything makes sense so far ^^. | ||
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On June 03 2015 11:04 Tictock wrote: I realize that, and I know some people just hate putting much effort into D1. I disagree with this approach as I think trying to generate content by pushing people tends to give more info to look at in the following days. However I've thus far found your approach, and more importantly how you've responded to my pressure on you fairly scummy. I'll be expecting decent reads from you when we get close to EoD if you want to sway my opinion. I'm not sold on meta reads being solid evidence to go off of, but can anyone tell me if this is typical of Damdred's town play? Call me the sniper bro. But yeah I think he is on a phone atm, but we should hold him to presenting strong views before the end of the day as you said. | ||
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It seems everyone is asleep/away anyways as there has been hardly any posts for several hours while I been dotaing, so I'm going to go to sleep and be back on tomorrow. Will probably be awhile before I am back on as I got to do things tomorrow. I might be able to quickly read through things and post a few things but won't be able to be as active as I was earlier until later in the day (probably a few hours before what our start time was or so). See everyone later and hope I have a lot to read when I get back! | ||
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, totally missed it and thought he hadn't posted at all, to be fair though he may as well not have; here is his post, pretty void of any content (I do get an odd vibe from it though, seems he is doing an awful lot of "I am town look at me"):On June 03 2015 09:25 Onegu wrote: + Show Spoiler + Ok so here is the deal. I am the best player in this game. Yeah Damdred/VE are good, but no where near as awesome as me. So you guys are lucky I didnt roll scum or this game would be already over. Scum is lucky I didnt roll blue or this game would also already be over. Ritoky is bad and knows it, SL gives everyone headaches. The rest of you DONT KNOW WHO THE FUCK I AM. I AM ONEGU LEARN IT!!!! KNOW IT!!! VE is scum trying to make someone look bad for saying someone is AFK comeon man. Ritoky prolly town for doing the GIF thing since his last gif game was scum. Rest of you I need more time. Oh here is my claim... I am shitty ass VT. I still stand by my initial two scum reads on milo and sicklucker for now but I have some reservations for each now, more so than I initially did when I made this post: On June 03 2015 09:59 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + So my top scumread is still milo. On milo I of course posted earlier on but as I indicated earlier his posts since then I have still found suspect. I may be tunneling him way too hard but I am just being honest that he is still my main scum read. My main thoughts on him are here, most relevant parts are bolded: On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote: My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote: Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ milo Can you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote: I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote: Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature: ##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. To summarize this post, his initial vote on ritocky I found suspect because he made it just because he didn't like his posting without first trying to figure out if this was normal. He had no way of knowing if this was normal from rickoty, but unlike me who tried to figure out if it was normal before making a decision, he straight up throws down a vote because he just doesn't like it. The editing in my post where I voted on him is so wonky I can't figure it out. Regardless, at that point my most relevant point is that milo was again contradicting himself: On June 03 2015 07:01 Kickstart wrote: Unfortunatly milo this again makes no sense to me, you say you are not comfortable reading people scummy yet throw a vote on him because you just said you don't think (or you aren't convinced) that he is town, which means you DID in fact read him as scummy. But an even bigger issue than that for me is that that is not what you said when you threw down the vote, you threw down the vote because you didn't like his posting, and as I said, you had no way of knowing if this was his usual posting and thus the vote was NOT a vote on who you thought was scummy, even though now you seem to be trying to indicate that it was. I do not like your actions and I do not find this explanation from you satisfactory. ##Vote: milo109 To be fair to milo he has explained these contradictions and even conceded them. Since then I also haven't liked that he said he didn't find ritocky voting for him scummy yet in my mind that is the only (or at least the main) reason that he reads me as scummy, but again I am biased here. I also found his claim that Chocolate was unable to defend himself weird but VE was able to point that out before me. Saying he is unable to defend himself just makes no sense in any situation at all, even if he was afk at the time its forum mafia, he could come back and read it. Anyways, aside from milo the next person I was suspicious of (slight scum read on) is sicklucker. On sicklucker His very first part I found suspect: On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote: ##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town Since I've not played with him I don't know how much he was joking or whatever, which I tried to clarify by asking if people had played with each other and what the tictock voting was about but really I didn't get a real explanation on the tictock vote imo, I guess he kind of hinted that TT annoyed him in another game, not sure. Aside from the vote though, the immediate "I am ok with policy voting until he proves hes town" was weird to me. I guess talking about policy voting is not that unusual but for one TT has been active enough for a policy vote based on activity to not apply and secondly I think just coming out and trying to push policy vote is weird. I just read it as SL being ok with just voting on policy instead of hunting for scum. The fact that his vote remains on TT and he hasn't pushed anyone for information or anything just adds to my suspicion that he would rather vote based on policy than hunt for actual scum. My other main gripe is that he was quite active, but posting mostly one-liners with not much substance at all. He was clearly here the entire time at the start but didn't weigh in on what was going on, which I find weird since there was a lot of discussion happening. His only two posts sharing his thoughts were these: On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote: I dont rly like kickstarter either. Way to tryhard for a first post for my liking. On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote: I agree but its so unlike you to defend a person The first one is suspect because he doesn't like someone for being "too tryhard". How does that even make sense. Aside from it being me he is suspicious of, someone being "too tryhard" is actually good I would say. So that was weird. I guess his post directed at Damdred isn't as odd but even here he doesn't post any of his own thoughts, just says "I agree", he does say Damdred is doing something odd in defending another player. I do not know how true that statement is as I have not played with Damdred, maybe someone else can comment on if SL is correct here. TL:DR Top scum reads are milo and sicklucker atm (while im typing this I'm still checking the thread and milo just throwing "i Don't think you are town" at VE is funny too, but whatever). I don't really think town reads are important at this point, but I will just say who I get slight town reads from. Again though, this is just who I probably wouldn't vote on today as what they have done thus far doesn't indicate them being scummy to me, it doesn't mean I have them pegged as town and won't ever vote or pressure them. But so far I mostly like ritocky and VE. I know I was somewhat annoyed with ritocky's posting at the start but since then it has been fine, he has spurred a lot of discussion, asked good questions, and been forthright with his opinions and thoughts. VE has done the same as far as spurring discussion and being open with his thoughts, both of which I like and think are important. I think the fact that milo is new to forum mafia is giving me some reservations about how sure I can be that his actions indicate alignment, that said I still am suspicious of most of his actions thus far. Also my suspicions on sicklucker were addressed, tictock told me that my concerns about how sicklucker posted is actually typical of his posting, and that he posts like this as town, as with milo I still find it suspicious, but if this is his usual play (maybe someone other than just tictock can corroborate this) then it wouldn't be as suspicious. For now they would stay on my scum list but I am going to add another. GGTemplar is reading scum to me since he arrived in the thread and his overnight posting whilst I was asleep hasn't done anything to change this. On GGTemplar I announced my suspicions after he had only posted twice or so in these posts: On June 03 2015 10:03 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + Also glad to see GGT has joined in now, but I must admit I don't find myself agreeing with any of his points and find his jump onto TT weird :/. I outlined above that I found SL scummy and he just goes "I think you are town", so to me that is weird; and I don't see what he sees on TT. On June 03 2015 10:10 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + I second what TT is saying, to me GGs jump on him is so weird, almost as weird as his just giving SL a town read based on seemingly nothing. With that I would really want a more thorough explanation on both points from GG. Also I think the only person who hasn't said anything at all so far is Onegu, which is quite good as far as activity goes from my past experiences. As long as Onegu and a few others give some detailed thoughts in this day period (main people I want to hear from at this point I guess are Onegu and fidei as they have given us the least to work with imo. I also want to hear more actual reads and opinions from SL, Damdred, and scott). First issue I took with GG is that he came in and posted "Hi I am townie" and then town read someone without actually reading through the thread. Town reading someone when you clearly haven't read through everything is odd to me. Here is the post in question where he town reads me: On June 03 2015 09:47 GGTeMpLaR wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:02 Kickstart wrote: I just want to go ahead and get this out. A good town environment is one in which no one is allowed to lurk or be passive and not post much of their thoughts. While I honestly don't know any of the players in this game I believe some are new so to them and to everyone else, you have to post. Whether you are 100% sure in your reads or not, posting is good for town. Even if your reads are wrong, being active is good for town to figure out the game. I refuse to allow the game to be a passive one where several people are lurking and not being active and contributing to the conversation because that automatically makes the game harder on town and lessens town's win chance. The 10 post per cycle rule enacted by the host is a good first step but I think it is up to us to make sure that people don't abuse the rule by just posting the minimum number of times and saying nothing of substance. Now what I said applies to every game of course, an active town is always better than a passive town with several lurkers; but I particularly wanted to lead in with this point because I already feel like we might be heading in the direction of a passive/inactive town. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock: Damdred and Tictock already posted before the start of the game that they might not be active. Here are Dam's and TT's posts I am referring to: Thankfully they have both said that they are just sort of busy at the start but will have more time and be more active. I just want to urge them both to be as active as they can from the start, that way everyone can gets reads on them and we don't let them both through just because they aren't active in the first phase but might be in the phases after. Just to be clear though, I am not accusing either of you nor am I suspicious of you for it, because those statements are clearly not alignment indicative because they were made before the game began and people had their roles. I am just saying that I refuse to allow the game to devolve into a passive town game with people lurking and posting nothing of substance and those events already have me worried that we may find ourselves in that position. So I urge you, along with everyone else, to be as active as you can, even if you are strapped for time. Now that that is out of the way, could those who have played in games with some of the other people in the game (or if you know them) tell me who the strong players? I haven't played mafia on here since 2012 so I have no idea who the good players are and I think knowing this is helpful. I know this request seems a bit scummy ("Oh you wan't to know who the good players are so you can get rid of them!") but I will just concede that and say that knowing who is good tells everyone that those players: a) should not be lurking because if they are good they are usually always active in their games (so if they are lurking and posting not much substance it will be suspicious), and, b) they would be valuable assets (so we should expect strong town play from them and we would expect mafia to try and get rid of them), both good pieces of information for town. That is all I have for now, get to posting and being active everyone! :D Hi I am town. Your name is very fitting ^_^ I am inclined to believe the general tone of your post is townie, even though you do repeat yourself a little bit. And then what makes me fairly sure that he did that without even reading through things is that he retracts his read on me shortly after based on things that were said almost immediatly: On June 03 2015 10:08 GGTeMpLaR wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:29 ritoky wrote: It was a long post made immediately after the day post, which means it was planned and probably planned regardless of alignment. It says nothing about your alignment and only about some bs intentions you plan to traffic cop about to appear like you're doing shit for the game. I don't really care about reading more than a paragraph because it won't teach me anything about your alignment. I will continue to post pictures, deal with it. I actually love the read in bold. It doesn't necessarily clear you as town but I am inclined to like you more for the honesty. I fully retract my read on Kickstart but after continuing to read ritoky's posting I just really want to say I believe he is town. He's just very forward and open about his thoughts in such a way that I believe would be very difficult and bold to do as a mafia. On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote: Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ milo Can you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. I actually think your re-hashing what other people said much more concisely is scummy. I had the same initial thoughts with regards to 'annoying read' vs 'scum read' because as a general rule it is a scumtell, but something about the specific sentence structure of how he said it gave me like a 'townie vibe' as a new forum player for some reason. If you are town I encourage you to remember that while lurking is bad that being too drawn-out and repetitive in your posts is just as bad on the opposite extreme. I also found it weird that he says to me "I agree with everything you said but the way you say it makes you suspicious", I don't get that at all but I am probably biased as it is about me. Also note the trend of just saying everyone seems townie to him (that others have pointed out). Take a look through his filter and you will see that a large number of his posts are just him going "good point, I have a town read on you" to several people. The other issue I took with GGT was his immediate vote onto Ticktock which I didn't understand at all, here is his post throwing down his vote: On June 03 2015 09:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote: ##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town My gut tells me the specific diction you chose with regards to being 'morally' okay with it inclines me to believe you are townie. On June 03 2015 06:17 Tictock wrote: In regards to kicks question. I am pretty new to TL forums. Have played in 2 of the newbie games (the 2 most recent ones, including the ongoing one). I see a few familiar names, but most of you I don't know... and am HIGHLY suspicious of... And of course I know SL, who I may have to ignore. I apologize in advance if I start tunneling him, I have a tendency to do that. I think your intentional emphasis on the fact that you are 'HIGHLY' suspicious of people is scum-indicative. You are making sure we all know you are 'suspicious' of people, aka have imperfect information aka are town. A very roundabout and subtle way to go about telling people you are town. I think this is an excellent policy vote. ##Vote Tictock A silly vote in my mind masked by some bullshit about "policy vote", whole thing makes no sense to me. Not to mention that he is giving someone flack for something he deems as them 'hinting being town' as he says, when his very first post was "Hi I am town". I just don't see what he sees at all. I suppose I should know from ticktock if you guys have a history similar to that of yours and sicklucker. You were able to explain the sicklucker vote on you which I also found odd, but GGTs is even stranger to me, especially if he has no history with ticktock. This post I also don't like because ticktock was definatly stating an opinion that most of the thread held at that point in time but GGT makes the claim that TT is scummy for saying it. He also makes the claim that TT isn't being genuine and doesn't actually believe what he is saying (or that that is how TTs post appeared to him), I don't like that either. Last thing, while not much, is the classic pure list post that is completely void of content: On June 04 2015 00:44 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Town: Nydus sicklucker Milo89 Fideu86 Mafia: Kickstark Tictock I have already expressed that I don't like either of his "scum reads", if they can be called that. But what is stranger to me is the town list because again, a look through his filter will show that he has called several people townie, some of whom aren't even on the list (ritocky), and others who are on this list he hasn't even said anything about (milo, fideu). Given that I have some reservations about my previous scum reads, as I have outlined, I think now I feel that the order of most scummy is GGT, followed by milo and then sicklucker. Even though I still find milo and sicklucker suspicious for all the reasons I stated, I think GGT is far more likely to be scum at this point in time, and thus, my vote goes on him for now. ##Unvote ##Vote: GGTeMpLaR If you could, I would like for you to explain your list post more GGT, specifically the town reads you've put on there when you didn't even mention those people or interact with them at all before. Would also like to know if you still find tictock and myself suspicious, if not then who, if so then why? Got to run for now, took me way longer than I expected to make this post and I'm probably going to be late for my appointment! Be back in like 90 minutes or so! | ||
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On June 04 2015 04:59 ritoky wrote: I would rather not be misrepresented. I don't think templar looks that scummy. He is pretty much null. I think your last point about how his town reads changed a lot w/o explanation seems like a good point of pressure. However the rest of your case is meh. Like I said I don't mind a lot of what templar said and the particular posts he keyed in on. Also kickstart, can you give a town read on someone. The big issue I am having getting a solid read on you is you seem to be OMGUSing everything that walks. Well me OMGUSing everything is a stretch. I went on milo and sl before they even mentioned me, and my read on GGT is the same with or without him directing anything at me. I am generally of the opinion that town reads aren't of much use D1, but I was pressured to name some earlier and I named yourself and VE, for basically the same reasons. I felt that you were both applying pressure when needed, you were both driving discussion, and both were being open and honest with your thoughts - all of which I think is helpful and thus I feel that you have been helpful for town up to this point. Does that mean I think you are both 100% town? No, but I feel confident in saying that I would not vote on either of you this cycle. To be honest the only other person I feel is slightly town atm is Nydus, but definitely not on the same level as you two. I have real issues with almost everyone else who I havent mentioned because I just feel their posts are void of strong feelings and I don't like that style of play. Namely I feel like Damdred, scott, Onegu, and Fideu (just off the top of my head) are not giving us anything to work with, their posts are void of reads and strong opinions, and while Damdred has asked a lot of questions and put a bit of pressure on at times, he is still guilty of not giving us his thoughts (though he said this is how he plays and that he will wait to make a stronger case when he is ready - which I intend to hold him too, if Day 1 ends and he is still guilty of what I outlined above I will have some real questions about him because he has been active enough and seems experiences and good enough to give some solid reads but has yet to do so). I think scott and fideu are new so I can understand the reluctance to stick their necks out on anything but I don't feel that is a real excuse, they still need to share their thoughts on things. Onegu seems to have arrived late on the scene but already his posting style is suspicious to me, much too much joking around; while this is normal and understandable at the start of the game, I feel like there is plenty of content to actually address, which he has not done. Can anyone tell me if this is normal posting from Onegu? | ||
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On June 04 2015 05:25 Damdred wrote: So basically almost 24 hours in game you only have a strong opinion that 2 people are town one lean and the rest is null. Meh that post just irks me, it says a lot without actually doing much bah. Just because you refuse to give us opinions on anyone and I keep asking you too is no need to omgus me, but whatever. My '2 people are town one learn the rest null' is more than you have offered up. and if there are 13 players, and I know I'm town, we have 12 people. Ive said i find 3 to be scummy, leaves us 9. Of those 9 ive said 3 were town, leaves 6, of those 6 I pointed out all my issues with 4 of them. I don't even know who the 2 I left out are. So I have given my thoughts on almost every single player in the game while you haven't given your thoughts on a single one. Stay mad. | ||
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My Nydus town lean is just because he seems to be forthright with his thoughts and recently he seems to be getting similar impressions I am on most people. He did initially scum read me and I didn't like him at all for that, and he thought you were suspicious ritocky which I did not agree with at the time, but again I feel like he is sticking his neck out and being honest with his thoughts, therefor I would most likely not lynch him at this point in time. | ||
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On June 04 2015 06:56 Damdred wrote: I think most people in this game who've played with me will attest that I don't generally omgus. And this isn't at this point. However your posts fit very much into the vein of Lots of Words with little content. Like your big post that irkd me, a simple question was asked to you yet you turned it into a wall of text without any real explanation on why certain people are town. Instead you threw scum on certain people and then said "if they dont' do x before Y". That's not real content nor is that actual reads if you think something is scummy its scummy, not this half whishy washy things that permeate your posts at points. We just seem not to like each other, which is fine I guess. But I haven't been wishy washy at all. My scum reads are GGt, milo, and sicklucker, in that order. Town reads are ritocky and VE in that order. To say that I have indicated anything other than what I just said is to not have read what I've said. You keep saying I have given little content yet I have stated over and over and over and over and over again who my scum reads are, and that I like ritocky and VEs posting this far (though VE hasn't said much in awhile but hopefully whenever he gets back to the thread he will). Meanwhile, I still don't know who your scum reads are, as I have pointed out for quite some time now. You are just totally having a go at me and nothing you are saying about my posts holds true. It is annoying, and you've done it enough, I would now like you to say something about some other people, or are you still going to pull the "i dont play that way" card? | ||
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On June 04 2015 11:17 Chocolate wrote: this post is scummy as hell and just screams to me that you're just trying to survive If that is what you think then fine, I messed up and admitted it and can't change it now. I did retract it almost immediately though. You sure you not just looking for something to jump on? I'm far from just trying to survive. Can't help but feel you and others have this convenient manufactured surprise and outrage at me. | ||
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On June 04 2015 11:27 NydusHerMain wrote: Didn't kickstart say that his townread on me was like a very very light read? Why are people even on him for that o.O I did indeed, I posted it cause I was pressured to do so, but I've defended myself enough over this incident. People are on me because they think they can get a free mislynch =]. Ritocky doesnt come out looking suspicious to me over this because he just questions me immediately then later says something to the extent that I am confused, I do not like that he implied everything else I say is to be ignored or not taken seriously though, that seems off to me. Damdred just doesn't like me so him jumping on it isn't surprising. Chocolate setting himself up to throw votes on whoever he can (did it earlier and now doing it with me) is suspicious too. | ||
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On June 04 2015 15:36 scott31337 wrote: Who would you be willing to lynch beyond GG, Kickstart? milo and SL, did mention my issues with chocolate before and it seems he is getting a lot of heat atm, will see that happens there. My "willing to lynch" list is going to be quite long, not sure if that is good or bad D:. GGT, milo, SL, chocolate, and possibly damdred but it all depends on what he posts before the end of the day. That is probably the order I would choose as well, SL and chocolate kind of the same in the order though, SL for the reasons I stated earlier and for now just afking and chocolate because I had already been suspicious of him and it seems that the two people I think are town (ritocky and VE) are both going on him. | ||
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heretic, chocolate is clearly superior to vanilla. Anyways I am going to attempt to sleep as well, see you guys later. | ||
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Don't know how much time we have so I will make this quick, I actually really like GGT's posting and defense recently, and on the complete opposite end I think Chocolate's has been just terrible. It doesn't seem like there will be enough support for a milo vote, and I agree that while SL does seem off, there should be enough information to work with to go for someone else at the moment. I would just like to say that I don't like Onegus posting either, but I asked about it and everyone who has played with him tells me that this is normal from him, so I won't vote him today but if he continues like this I would never allow it to get towards the end of the game if this is all his posting is like. Also wan't to note that my two town reads are both on Chocolate, and that chocolate has put his vote on Onegu which will tell us nothing, which I find odd. I posted my initial concerns on him earlier and like I said his defense of himself has not been good at all, I can explain more later if necessary. ##Unvote ##Vote: Chocolate | ||
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On June 05 2015 04:31 ritoky wrote: This is the 2nd person to lightly deflect off of SL in recent memory....what exactly has he done to warrant this? Read my filter. SL is still quite scummy, but we don't have near enough to work with as with others. I had him on my scum list from the start, but my initial suspicions were somewhat pacified when TT told me that my concerns were just how SL always played (he said that in his previous games he had the exact same issues with SL that I had here, but that in his previous game SL had always been town), this I kind of laid off of SL from then. However, SL then coming in and going "HEY GUYS I DONT CARE ABOUT PLAYING NOW AND AM JUST GONNA LURK" is pretty shitty, and if I am still in the game in a few cycles I would never allow him to get towards 'endgame', but, we have a lot to work with and I think there is more to go on with other people at this point in time. | ||
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On June 05 2015 04:48 Damdred wrote: Case on kick start: Posts are quite large but lack a lot of content that the length of posts shoud curtail. Hounds people for reads but when confronted for his own reads he gives only smoke scum read that is rehashed fom others in the thread, sl scum read at this point is an afterthought and feels contrived. When asks about a town read gives a weak list post, and when confronted on another read that doesn't make sense he backs off of it completely. Shit fights me with for calling his posts out. Instead of concluding I'm scum from such things he concludes I just don't like him. Talks to me like I'm town and just tunneled on him instead of one of his top scum reads. Has sheeped thread sentiment almost at every turn. condensed feelings 1. This is how I post, you can tell by my intro post and by looking at my previous games, which I linked as soon as there was concern over my 'posting style'. Not liking the way I post is not a reason for thinking I am scum. 2. I've given several reads, just for you I'll post them here since you are clearly not going to read through my filter even though you keep saying this point which is blatantly not true. My initial long post when I put a vote on milo, give my SL suspicions, and give my ritocky and VE town reads. check my filter, it is impossible for me to figure out the formatting sorry. On June 04 2015 03:26 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hmm, only 2 ish pages after being asleep forever =[. I did see that Onegu did actually post once yesterday upon rereading through the thread though , totally missed it and thought he hadn't posted at all, to be fair though he may as well not have; here is his post, pretty void of any content (I do get an odd vibe from it though, seems he is doing an awful lot of "I am town look at me"):On June 03 2015 09:25 Onegu wrote: + Show Spoiler + Ok so here is the deal. I am the best player in this game. Yeah Damdred/VE are good, but no where near as awesome as me. So you guys are lucky I didnt roll scum or this game would be already over. Scum is lucky I didnt roll blue or this game would also already be over. Ritoky is bad and knows it, SL gives everyone headaches. The rest of you DONT KNOW WHO THE FUCK I AM. I AM ONEGU LEARN IT!!!! KNOW IT!!! VE is scum trying to make someone look bad for saying someone is AFK comeon man. Ritoky prolly town for doing the GIF thing since his last gif game was scum. Rest of you I need more time. Oh here is my claim... I am shitty ass VT. I still stand by my initial two scum reads on milo and sicklucker for now but I have some reservations for each now, more so than I initially did when I made this post: On June 03 2015 09:59 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + So my top scumread is still milo. On milo I of course posted earlier on but as I indicated earlier his posts since then I have still found suspect. I may be tunneling him way too hard but I am just being honest that he is still my main scum read. My main thoughts on him are here, most relevant parts are bolded: On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote: My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote: Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ milo Can you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote: I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote: Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature: ##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. To summarize this post, his initial vote on ritocky I found suspect because he made it just because he didn't like his posting without first trying to figure out if this was normal. He had no way of knowing if this was normal from rickoty, but unlike me who tried to figure out if it was normal before making a decision, he straight up throws down a vote because he just doesn't like it. The editing in my post where I voted on him is so wonky I can't figure it out. Regardless, at that point my most relevant point is that milo was again contradicting himself: On June 03 2015 07:01 Kickstart wrote: Unfortunatly milo this again makes no sense to me, you say you are not comfortable reading people scummy yet throw a vote on him because you just said you don't think (or you aren't convinced) that he is town, which means you DID in fact read him as scummy. But an even bigger issue than that for me is that that is not what you said when you threw down the vote, you threw down the vote because you didn't like his posting, and as I said, you had no way of knowing if this was his usual posting and thus the vote was NOT a vote on who you thought was scummy, even though now you seem to be trying to indicate that it was. I do not like your actions and I do not find this explanation from you satisfactory. ##Vote: milo109 To be fair to milo he has explained these contradictions and even conceded them. Since then I also haven't liked that he said he didn't find ritocky voting for him scummy yet in my mind that is the only (or at least the main) reason that he reads me as scummy, but again I am biased here. I also found his claim that Chocolate was unable to defend himself weird but VE was able to point that out before me. Saying he is unable to defend himself just makes no sense in any situation at all, even if he was afk at the time its forum mafia, he could come back and read it. Anyways, aside from milo the next person I was suspicious of (slight scum read on) is sicklucker. On sicklucker His very first part I found suspect: On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote: ##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town Since I've not played with him I don't know how much he was joking or whatever, which I tried to clarify by asking if people had played with each other and what the tictock voting was about but really I didn't get a real explanation on the tictock vote imo, I guess he kind of hinted that TT annoyed him in another game, not sure. Aside from the vote though, the immediate "I am ok with policy voting until he proves hes town" was weird to me. I guess talking about policy voting is not that unusual but for one TT has been active enough for a policy vote based on activity to not apply and secondly I think just coming out and trying to push policy vote is weird. I just read it as SL being ok with just voting on policy instead of hunting for scum. The fact that his vote remains on TT and he hasn't pushed anyone for information or anything just adds to my suspicion that he would rather vote based on policy than hunt for actual scum. My other main gripe is that he was quite active, but posting mostly one-liners with not much substance at all. He was clearly here the entire time at the start but didn't weigh in on what was going on, which I find weird since there was a lot of discussion happening. His only two posts sharing his thoughts were these: On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote: I dont rly like kickstarter either. Way to tryhard for a first post for my liking. On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote: I agree but its so unlike you to defend a person The first one is suspect because he doesn't like someone for being "too tryhard". How does that even make sense. Aside from it being me he is suspicious of, someone being "too tryhard" is actually good I would say. So that was weird. I guess his post directed at Damdred isn't as odd but even here he doesn't post any of his own thoughts, just says "I agree", he does say Damdred is doing something odd in defending another player. I do not know how true that statement is as I have not played with Damdred, maybe someone else can comment on if SL is correct here. TL:DR Top scum reads are milo and sicklucker atm (while im typing this I'm still checking the thread and milo just throwing "i Don't think you are town" at VE is funny too, but whatever). I don't really think town reads are important at this point, but I will just say who I get slight town reads from. Again though, this is just who I probably wouldn't vote on today as what they have done thus far doesn't indicate them being scummy to me, it doesn't mean I have them pegged as town and won't ever vote or pressure them. But so far I mostly like ritocky and VE. I know I was somewhat annoyed with ritocky's posting at the start but since then it has been fine, he has spurred a lot of discussion, asked good questions, and been forthright with his opinions and thoughts. VE has done the same as far as spurring discussion and being open with his thoughts, both of which I like and think are important. I think the fact that milo is new to forum mafia is giving me some reservations about how sure I can be that his actions indicate alignment, that said I still am suspicious of most of his actions thus far. Also my suspicions on sicklucker were addressed, tictock told me that my concerns about how sicklucker posted is actually typical of his posting, and that he posts like this as town, as with milo I still find it suspicious, but if this is his usual play (maybe someone other than just tictock can corroborate this) then it wouldn't be as suspicious. For now they would stay on my scum list but I am going to add another. GGTemplar is reading scum to me since he arrived in the thread and his overnight posting whilst I was asleep hasn't done anything to change this. On GGTemplar I announced my suspicions after he had only posted twice or so in these posts: On June 03 2015 10:03 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + Also glad to see GGT has joined in now, but I must admit I don't find myself agreeing with any of his points and find his jump onto TT weird :/. I outlined above that I found SL scummy and he just goes "I think you are town", so to me that is weird; and I don't see what he sees on TT. On June 03 2015 10:10 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + I second what TT is saying, to me GGs jump on him is so weird, almost as weird as his just giving SL a town read based on seemingly nothing. With that I would really want a more thorough explanation on both points from GG. Also I think the only person who hasn't said anything at all so far is Onegu, which is quite good as far as activity goes from my past experiences. As long as Onegu and a few others give some detailed thoughts in this day period (main people I want to hear from at this point I guess are Onegu and fidei as they have given us the least to work with imo. I also want to hear more actual reads and opinions from SL, Damdred, and scott). First issue I took with GG is that he came in and posted "Hi I am townie" and then town read someone without actually reading through the thread. Town reading someone when you clearly haven't read through everything is odd to me. Here is the post in question where he town reads me: On June 03 2015 09:47 GGTeMpLaR wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:02 Kickstart wrote: I just want to go ahead and get this out. A good town environment is one in which no one is allowed to lurk or be passive and not post much of their thoughts. While I honestly don't know any of the players in this game I believe some are new so to them and to everyone else, you have to post. Whether you are 100% sure in your reads or not, posting is good for town. Even if your reads are wrong, being active is good for town to figure out the game. I refuse to allow the game to be a passive one where several people are lurking and not being active and contributing to the conversation because that automatically makes the game harder on town and lessens town's win chance. The 10 post per cycle rule enacted by the host is a good first step but I think it is up to us to make sure that people don't abuse the rule by just posting the minimum number of times and saying nothing of substance. Now what I said applies to every game of course, an active town is always better than a passive town with several lurkers; but I particularly wanted to lead in with this point because I already feel like we might be heading in the direction of a passive/inactive town. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock: Damdred and Tictock already posted before the start of the game that they might not be active. Here are Dam's and TT's posts I am referring to: Thankfully they have both said that they are just sort of busy at the start but will have more time and be more active. I just want to urge them both to be as active as they can from the start, that way everyone can gets reads on them and we don't let them both through just because they aren't active in the first phase but might be in the phases after. Just to be clear though, I am not accusing either of you nor am I suspicious of you for it, because those statements are clearly not alignment indicative because they were made before the game began and people had their roles. I am just saying that I refuse to allow the game to devolve into a passive town game with people lurking and posting nothing of substance and those events already have me worried that we may find ourselves in that position. So I urge you, along with everyone else, to be as active as you can, even if you are strapped for time. Now that that is out of the way, could those who have played in games with some of the other people in the game (or if you know them) tell me who the strong players? I haven't played mafia on here since 2012 so I have no idea who the good players are and I think knowing this is helpful. I know this request seems a bit scummy ("Oh you wan't to know who the good players are so you can get rid of them!") but I will just concede that and say that knowing who is good tells everyone that those players: a) should not be lurking because if they are good they are usually always active in their games (so if they are lurking and posting not much substance it will be suspicious), and, b) they would be valuable assets (so we should expect strong town play from them and we would expect mafia to try and get rid of them), both good pieces of information for town. That is all I have for now, get to posting and being active everyone! :D Hi I am town. Your name is very fitting ^_^ I am inclined to believe the general tone of your post is townie, even though you do repeat yourself a little bit. And then what makes me fairly sure that he did that without even reading through things is that he retracts his read on me shortly after based on things that were said almost immediatly: On June 03 2015 10:08 GGTeMpLaR wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:29 ritoky wrote: It was a long post made immediately after the day post, which means it was planned and probably planned regardless of alignment. It says nothing about your alignment and only about some bs intentions you plan to traffic cop about to appear like you're doing shit for the game. I don't really care about reading more than a paragraph because it won't teach me anything about your alignment. I will continue to post pictures, deal with it. I actually love the read in bold. It doesn't necessarily clear you as town but I am inclined to like you more for the honesty. I fully retract my read on Kickstart but after continuing to read ritoky's posting I just really want to say I believe he is town. He's just very forward and open about his thoughts in such a way that I believe would be very difficult and bold to do as a mafia. On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote: Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ milo Can you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. I actually think your re-hashing what other people said much more concisely is scummy. I had the same initial thoughts with regards to 'annoying read' vs 'scum read' because as a general rule it is a scumtell, but something about the specific sentence structure of how he said it gave me like a 'townie vibe' as a new forum player for some reason. If you are town I encourage you to remember that while lurking is bad that being too drawn-out and repetitive in your posts is just as bad on the opposite extreme. I also found it weird that he says to me "I agree with everything you said but the way you say it makes you suspicious", I don't get that at all but I am probably biased as it is about me. Also note the trend of just saying everyone seems townie to him (that others have pointed out). Take a look through his filter and you will see that a large number of his posts are just him going "good point, I have a town read on you" to several people. The other issue I took with GGT was his immediate vote onto Ticktock which I didn't understand at all, here is his post throwing down his vote: On June 03 2015 09:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote: ##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town My gut tells me the specific diction you chose with regards to being 'morally' okay with it inclines me to believe you are townie. On June 03 2015 06:17 Tictock wrote: In regards to kicks question. I am pretty new to TL forums. Have played in 2 of the newbie games (the 2 most recent ones, including the ongoing one). I see a few familiar names, but most of you I don't know... and am HIGHLY suspicious of... And of course I know SL, who I may have to ignore. I apologize in advance if I start tunneling him, I have a tendency to do that. I think your intentional emphasis on the fact that you are 'HIGHLY' suspicious of people is scum-indicative. You are making sure we all know you are 'suspicious' of people, aka have imperfect information aka are town. A very roundabout and subtle way to go about telling people you are town. I think this is an excellent policy vote. ##Vote Tictock A silly vote in my mind masked by some bullshit about "policy vote", whole thing makes no sense to me. Not to mention that he is giving someone flack for something he deems as them 'hinting being town' as he says, when his very first post was "Hi I am town". I just don't see what he sees at all. I suppose I should know from ticktock if you guys have a history similar to that of yours and sicklucker. You were able to explain the sicklucker vote on you which I also found odd, but GGTs is even stranger to me, especially if he has no history with ticktock. This post I also don't like because ticktock was definatly stating an opinion that most of the thread held at that point in time but GGT makes the claim that TT is scummy for saying it. He also makes the claim that TT isn't being genuine and doesn't actually believe what he is saying (or that that is how TTs post appeared to him), I don't like that either. Last thing, while not much, is the classic pure list post that is completely void of content: On June 04 2015 00:44 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Town: Nydus sicklucker Milo89 Fideu86 Mafia: Kickstark Tictock I have already expressed that I don't like either of his "scum reads", if they can be called that. But what is stranger to me is the town list because again, a look through his filter will show that he has called several people townie, some of whom aren't even on the list (ritocky), and others who are on this list he hasn't even said anything about (milo, fideu). Given that I have some reservations about my previous scum reads, as I have outlined, I think now I feel that the order of most scummy is GGT, followed by milo and then sicklucker. Even though I still find milo and sicklucker suspicious for all the reasons I stated, I think GGT is far more likely to be scum at this point in time, and thus, my vote goes on him for now. ##Unvote ##Vote: GGTeMpLaR If you could, I would like for you to explain your list post more GGT, specifically the town reads you've put on there when you didn't even mention those people or interact with them at all before. Would also like to know if you still find tictock and myself suspicious, if not then who, if so then why? Got to run for now, took me way longer than I expected to make this post and I'm probably going to be late for my appointment! Be back in like 90 minutes or so! On June 05 2015 04:22 Kickstart wrote: + Show Spoiler + Well I am back, took me a bit to reread through the thread. :waves at Damdred:. Don't like Damdred railing on me at all and I still don't think he has given us what he promised earlier in the day, but I will save that for cycle 2. Don't know how much time we have so I will make this quick, I actually really like GGT's posting and defense recently, and on the complete opposite end I think Chocolate's has been just terrible. It doesn't seem like there will be enough support for a milo vote, and I agree that while SL does seem off, there should be enough information to work with to go for someone else at the moment. I would just like to say that I don't like Onegus posting either, but I asked about it and everyone who has played with him tells me that this is normal from him, so I won't vote him today but if he continues like this I would never allow it to get towards the end of the game if this is all his posting is like. Also wan't to note that my two town reads are both on Chocolate, and that chocolate has put his vote on Onegu which will tell us nothing, which I find odd. I posted my initial concerns on him earlier and like I said his defense of himself has not been good at all, I can explain more later if necessary. ##Unvote ##Vote: Chocolate None of that is 'rehashed' in my opinion, nor is my sl read 'contrived, I was the first to point it out and inquire about his posting imo. 3. I explained my ritocky and VE town reads several times, but again since you aren't reading my filter I'll explain just for you. They have driven discussion, put on pressure where I felt it was applicable, and have been open with their thoughts. My Nydus post was an admitted mistake, I explained that as well: people were putting pressure on me because I was like one of four people who were actually there at the time, I didn't handle it well and felt obligated to give more than what I had. This was a mistake from me and I rescinded what I said, nothing more I can do about it. 4. I'm fighting with you because I feel that you are either not reading what I am saying or are blatantly lying, as detailed above. I have also explained that I am taking you at your word and giving you time to give strong reads, so far you are making me doubt my decision. 5. Im talking to you like misguided town or mafia because that is what I think you are. 6. Only thing I can be remotely considered sheeping is a Chocolate vote, but I have no idea how much time is left so wanted to get it in and then could discuss it. All my other thoughts I have been first or at least second in my opinion, and even if not you can hardly say I've been sheeping. So imo the only thing you say about me that is true is that I am a bit long winded, which is just how I play so get over it. | ||
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On June 05 2015 05:22 Tictock wrote: You really think they are a possible team? or is this OMGUS? Sure it is possible, probably a bit OMGUS too though. I just don't like this last minute bullshit votes. Damdred I haven't liked for reasons I've already stated and I called Chocolate out a looong time ago for putting himself in a position to just vote on anyone and everyone, which is what he is now doing and which to me is scummy. | ||
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On June 05 2015 05:25 Damdred wrote: Ehats the point of concluding someone just doesn't like you if you are scum reading them? It should 100% be that scum os trying to push a mislynch but look how kick is reacting at first. Damdred just doesn't like me. Damdred is tunneled. If he legitimately thinks I'm scum the first thought should be damdred is scum frying to lynch me the firstbtwonreactions are iinfrring I'm being bad town not scum. Nope I said you are misguided town or scum, I didn't sway one way or the other until your trying this hard to get me lynched. I have also addressed all of your points, but just like before you are completely ignoring and misrepresenting everything I am posting so whatever. | ||
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My vote either dtays on Chocolate, or I switch to SL or Damdred, thoughts? | ||
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Chocolate definitely seems scummy, all the events leading up the lynch seem even more scummy to me, if he survives take a serious look at that. Damdred tunneled me hard and provided not much on anyone else in my opinion. I may be biased here but he will need a serious lookover as well. I get the feeling ritocky is getting a bit of a free ride on everyone calling him town, especially with his vote towards end of lynch. For someone who has been pretty clear and sure of his reads and thoughts he is creating a lot of chaos around the lynch in my eyes, make sure to reevaluate him and not just ride or die him as being town. In order for me to get lynched ritocky would have to throw his vote my way, which in my mind would be unjustified from him, and then milo and Nydus would have to throw votes on me I think. Would be understandable from milo, not so much from Nydus imo. Anyways this is just in case I get lynched as I am really uneasy about the situation we are in atm with only 15 minutes to go as I don't think it is out of this world for ritocky milo SL nydus and fideu to throw votes my way in the last minute. If a vote swap onto me is successful and this happens, the most suspicious would me Damdred, chocolate, ritocky, nydus in probably that order. 10 minutes to go | ||
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I explained everything you pointed out. Your actions around this lynch are extremely suspect and I implore everyone to reevaluate you at the end, regardless of the outcome of this lynch. | ||
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Fideu sayiung he will vote me I really didnt want to do this, but this shit wagon has forced me to. I am now for sure dead night 1 kill, but I would rather do this so that we dont mislynch off the bat. I am claiming jailkeeper. I am the only blue role. Good job for making the game 100 times harder on town now cause I die night 1 no matter what now. | ||
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I am jailkeeper, take your votes off of me. | ||
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 Good luck town. | ||
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