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On June 03 2015 10:46 Damdred wrote:
Actually the charges levels against me are meh, I've taken plenty of stances mostly town reads....
You call it middle of the road becauseee....idk haha.
Anyway yeah I'll town read more people later figure out who I want to lynch in... 18 hours probably maybe 30.
Well I think the main issue I and others have with this is that generally speaking, and especially day1, scum reads are way more helpful than town reads. And from what I recall you haven't really called anyone out as being suspicious to you or of giving you a scum read.
And on a go through of your filter it is quite void of content in my opinion. That is to say you dont even really give town reads, all you said was milo is on the high end of null and that I am on the low end of null (assuming you mean milo is slightly town and Im slightly scum to you). Point is that while you have asked some questions and pushed some people for reads, you haven't stuck your neck out on anything at all.
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On June 03 2015 10:49 Chocolate wrote:
I'd appreciate some reads from Onegu as well.
##vote VisceraEyes
Curious what others think about him tunneling me and milo
As for milo's "scum slip" if you read the thread it was only after I had said I was away that milo said I was away. I don't understand VE's logic here at all. For a veteran player you're playing pretty dumb imo
I find the VE vote really weird, I and I'm pretty sure a few others have expressed a slight town read on him, or find that he has at least been beneficial in that he has spurred discussion and been open and forthright with his thoughts. I know there is a tendency to scum read people who are scum reading you, but aside from that what about VEs posting has been suspicious to you? Because I find his points about both you and milo to be valid.
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Also I don't want to speak for VE, but milo saying you afk was weird. At the time I didnt point it out because he did but since then I did say a bit about it. For one we can't be sure you are afk because you said you were going to go through stuff (but then went to eat dinner, which is fine, you just stated you were doing otherwise as the reason for your inactivity at the time). What I found most odd was the "he cant defend himself", because to me that makes no sense at all, even if you were afk, its forum mafia, you just come back and read it and respond :/.
But mostly I would like for you to expand on why your vote is on VE!
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On June 03 2015 10:54 Damdred wrote:
Except I called Milo town just a few posts ago.
Town hinting if you are good at it can be just as helpful as scum hinting. So you don't like it that's to bad that's how I play early and it nets me finding scum through poe or at least lets me find the right filters to look through.
I don't want to harp on this much as I don't find it helpful. If you prefer to give town reads over scum reads that is fine, but either way, you haven't given strong reads in any direction at this point.
That said, is milo still slight town and I still slight scum to you? Are there any other reads you can give besides us two at this point?
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On June 03 2015 10:57 Damdred wrote:
Ummmm idk if you know this or not but most wagons up to hour 12 in the cycle (12 hours left before end of day) generally don't get lynched.
Most serious cases are presented and pushed at that point when more information is I'm thread generally.
If you disagree with how I approach early game that's fine but I generally don't put weakass scum reads in the thread lol
Except you did, you said I was slightly scummy =].
But I already asked for more reads from you, if you don't want to give anything at this point in time that is your prerogative. I just hope you will present a "serious case" as you call it if you don't wish to give reads now. Again though, anyone who takes a look at your filter will agree with me I think, in that you aren't taking strong stances. Maybe someone else can weigh in on if that is normal for you, as I would have no way of knowing.
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On June 03 2015 11:02 Damdred wrote:
Don't discount my ultimate ritoky read now.
Who knows I'll figure out who I think is s um when I'm on a comp. Scotts up ij scum, you are slightly above scum undecided.
Ah I take it you are posting from a phone or something  , then everything makes sense so far ^^.
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On June 03 2015 11:04 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 10:57 Damdred wrote:
Ummmm idk if you know this or not but most wagons up to hour 12 in the cycle (12 hours left before end of day) generally don't get lynched.
Most serious cases are presented and pushed at that point when more information is I'm thread generally.
If you disagree with how I approach early game that's fine but I generally don't put weakass scum reads in the thread lol I realize that, and I know some people just hate putting much effort into D1. I disagree with this approach as I think trying to generate content by pushing people tends to give more info to look at in the following days. However I've thus far found your approach, and more importantly how you've responded to my pressure on you fairly scummy. I'll be expecting decent reads from you when we get close to EoD if you want to sway my opinion. I'm not sold on meta reads being solid evidence to go off of, but can anyone tell me if this is typical of Damdred's town play?
Call me the sniper bro. But yeah I think he is on a phone atm, but we should hold him to presenting strong views before the end of the day as you said.
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Fair enough Chocolate, I think you make good points. I of course think VE was correct in pressuring milo because I saw the same things but again I am probably biased here, but you may be as well since you don't like that VE questioned you. For what its worth I have slight town reads on you and VE, don't discount the possibility that you are both town going after each other.
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I don't think being firm in your points is suspicious at all, it leaves no room for people to not know where you stand, which in my opinion is always a good thing. People may not like when I target them, but everyone is always sure of what I think and who I am suspicious of, which again, I don't see how that can be a bad thing.
It seems everyone is asleep/away anyways as there has been hardly any posts for several hours while I been dotaing, so I'm going to go to sleep and be back on tomorrow. Will probably be awhile before I am back on as I got to do things tomorrow. I might be able to quickly read through things and post a few things but won't be able to be as active as I was earlier until later in the day (probably a few hours before what our start time was or so). See everyone later and hope I have a lot to read when I get back!
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Hmm, only 2 ish pages after being asleep forever =[. I did see that Onegu did actually post once yesterday upon rereading through the thread though , totally missed it and thought he hadn't posted at all, to be fair though he may as well not have; here is his post, pretty void of any content (I do get an odd vibe from it though, seems he is doing an awful lot of "I am town look at me"):
On June 03 2015 09:25 Onegu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok so here is the deal. I am the best player in this game. Yeah Damdred/VE are good, but no where near as awesome as me. So you guys are lucky I didnt roll scum or this game would be already over. Scum is lucky I didnt roll blue or this game would also already be over.
Ritoky is bad and knows it, SL gives everyone headaches.
The rest of you DONT KNOW WHO THE FUCK I AM. I AM ONEGU LEARN IT!!!! KNOW IT!!!
VE is scum trying to make someone look bad for saying someone is AFK comeon man.
Ritoky prolly town for doing the GIF thing since his last gif game was scum.
Rest of you I need more time.
Oh here is my claim...
I am shitty ass VT.
I still stand by my initial two scum reads on milo and sicklucker for now but I have some reservations for each now, more so than I initially did when I made this post:
On June 03 2015 09:59 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So my top scumread is still milo. On miloI of course posted earlier on but as I indicated earlier his posts since then I have still found suspect. I may be tunneling him way too hard but I am just being honest that he is still my main scum read. My main thoughts on him are here, most relevant parts are bolded: On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:33 Kickstart wrote:
Well, those that have played with ritoky, is he always like this? I suppose if he always does this he has to keep up his 'meta', however annoying and unhelpful it happens to be.
Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started. My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote:
Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ miloCan you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote:
I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote:
Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature:
##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. To summarize this post, his initial vote on ritocky I found suspect because he made it just because he didn't like his posting without first trying to figure out if this was normal. He had no way of knowing if this was normal from rickoty, but unlike me who tried to figure out if it was normal before making a decision, he straight up throws down a vote because he just doesn't like it. The editing in my post where I voted on him is so wonky I can't figure it out. Regardless, at that point my most relevant point is that milo was again contradicting himself: On June 03 2015 07:01 Kickstart wrote:
Unfortunatly milo this again makes no sense to me, you say you are not comfortable reading people scummy yet throw a vote on him because you just said you don't think (or you aren't convinced) that he is town, which means you DID in fact read him as scummy. But an even bigger issue than that for me is that that is not what you said when you threw down the vote, you threw down the vote because you didn't like his posting, and as I said, you had no way of knowing if this was his usual posting and thus the vote was NOT a vote on who you thought was scummy, even though now you seem to be trying to indicate that it was.
I do not like your actions and I do not find this explanation from you satisfactory.
##Vote: milo109 To be fair to milo he has explained these contradictions and even conceded them. Since then I also haven't liked that he said he didn't find ritocky voting for him scummy yet in my mind that is the only (or at least the main) reason that he reads me as scummy, but again I am biased here. I also found his claim that Chocolate was unable to defend himself weird but VE was able to point that out before me. Saying he is unable to defend himself just makes no sense in any situation at all, even if he was afk at the time its forum mafia, he could come back and read it. Anyways, aside from milo the next person I was suspicious of (slight scum read on) is sicklucker. On sickluckerHis very first part I found suspect: On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote:
##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town Since I've not played with him I don't know how much he was joking or whatever, which I tried to clarify by asking if people had played with each other and what the tictock voting was about but really I didn't get a real explanation on the tictock vote imo, I guess he kind of hinted that TT annoyed him in another game, not sure. Aside from the vote though, the immediate "I am ok with policy voting until he proves hes town" was weird to me. I guess talking about policy voting is not that unusual but for one TT has been active enough for a policy vote based on activity to not apply and secondly I think just coming out and trying to push policy vote is weird. I just read it as SL being ok with just voting on policy instead of hunting for scum. The fact that his vote remains on TT and he hasn't pushed anyone for information or anything just adds to my suspicion that he would rather vote based on policy than hunt for actual scum. My other main gripe is that he was quite active, but posting mostly one-liners with not much substance at all. He was clearly here the entire time at the start but didn't weigh in on what was going on, which I find weird since there was a lot of discussion happening. His only two posts sharing his thoughts were these: On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote:
I dont rly like kickstarter either. Way to tryhard for a first post for my liking. On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 07:37 Damdred wrote:
So, gut feeling is Milo stuff isn't as bad as it is being made out to,be. If you think,he's Scum Ok that's fine.
Don't tunnel him before he has tile to do anything else.
Answer me this why,can't his reasons be all he's said? Does town never contradict themselves? Are both these things only scum oriented I agree but its so unlike you to defend a person The first one is suspect because he doesn't like someone for being "too tryhard". How does that even make sense. Aside from it being me he is suspicious of, someone being "too tryhard" is actually good I would say. So that was weird. I guess his post directed at Damdred isn't as odd but even here he doesn't post any of his own thoughts, just says "I agree", he does say Damdred is doing something odd in defending another player. I do not know how true that statement is as I have not played with Damdred, maybe someone else can comment on if SL is correct here. TL:DR Top scum reads are milo and sicklucker atm (while im typing this I'm still checking the thread and milo just throwing "i Don't think you are town" at VE is funny too, but whatever). I don't really think town reads are important at this point, but I will just say who I get slight town reads from. Again though, this is just who I probably wouldn't vote on today as what they have done thus far doesn't indicate them being scummy to me, it doesn't mean I have them pegged as town and won't ever vote or pressure them. But so far I mostly like ritocky and VE. I know I was somewhat annoyed with ritocky's posting at the start but since then it has been fine, he has spurred a lot of discussion, asked good questions, and been forthright with his opinions and thoughts. VE has done the same as far as spurring discussion and being open with his thoughts, both of which I like and think are important.
I think the fact that milo is new to forum mafia is giving me some reservations about how sure I can be that his actions indicate alignment, that said I still am suspicious of most of his actions thus far. Also my suspicions on sicklucker were addressed, tictock told me that my concerns about how sicklucker posted is actually typical of his posting, and that he posts like this as town, as with milo I still find it suspicious, but if this is his usual play (maybe someone other than just tictock can corroborate this) then it wouldn't be as suspicious.
For now they would stay on my scum list but I am going to add another. GGTemplar is reading scum to me since he arrived in the thread and his overnight posting whilst I was asleep hasn't done anything to change this.
On GGTemplar
I announced my suspicions after he had only posted twice or so in these posts:
On June 03 2015 10:03 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Also glad to see GGT has joined in now, but I must admit I don't find myself agreeing with any of his points and find his jump onto TT weird :/. I outlined above that I found SL scummy and he just goes "I think you are town", so to me that is weird; and I don't see what he sees on TT.
On June 03 2015 10:10 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I second what TT is saying, to me GGs jump on him is so weird, almost as weird as his just giving SL a town read based on seemingly nothing. With that I would really want a more thorough explanation on both points from GG.
Also I think the only person who hasn't said anything at all so far is Onegu, which is quite good as far as activity goes from my past experiences. As long as Onegu and a few others give some detailed thoughts in this day period (main people I want to hear from at this point I guess are Onegu and fidei as they have given us the least to work with imo. I also want to hear more actual reads and opinions from SL, Damdred, and scott).
First issue I took with GG is that he came in and posted "Hi I am townie" and then town read someone without actually reading through the thread. Town reading someone when you clearly haven't read through everything is odd to me. Here is the post in question where he town reads me:
On June 03 2015 09:47 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:02 Kickstart wrote:I just want to go ahead and get this out. A good town environment is one in which no one is allowed to lurk or be passive and not post much of their thoughts. While I honestly don't know any of the players in this game I believe some are new so to them and to everyone else, you have to post. Whether you are 100% sure in your reads or not, posting is good for town. Even if your reads are wrong, being active is good for town to figure out the game. I refuse to allow the game to be a passive one where several people are lurking and not being active and contributing to the conversation because that automatically makes the game harder on town and lessens town's win chance. The 10 post per cycle rule enacted by the host is a good first step but I think it is up to us to make sure that people don't abuse the rule by just posting the minimum number of times and saying nothing of substance. Now what I said applies to every game of course, an active town is always better than a passive town with several lurkers; but I particularly wanted to lead in with this point because I already feel like we might be heading in the direction of a passive/inactive town. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock: Damdred and Tictock already posted before the start of the game that they might not be active. Here are Dam's and TT's posts I am referring to: Thankfully they have both said that they are just sort of busy at the start but will have more time and be more active. I just want to urge them both to be as active as they can from the start, that way everyone can gets reads on them and we don't let them both through just because they aren't active in the first phase but might be in the phases after. Just to be clear though, I am not accusing either of you nor am I suspicious of you for it, because those statements are clearly not alignment indicative because they were made before the game began and people had their roles. I am just saying that I refuse to allow the game to devolve into a passive town game with people lurking and posting nothing of substance and those events already have me worried that we may find ourselves in that position. So I urge you, along with everyone else, to be as active as you can, even if you are strapped for time. Now that that is out of the way, could those who have played in games with some of the other people in the game (or if you know them) tell me who the strong players? I haven't played mafia on here since 2012 so I have no idea who the good players are and I think knowing this is helpful. I know this request seems a bit scummy ("Oh you wan't to know who the good players are so you can get rid of them!") but I will just concede that and say that knowing who is good tells everyone that those players: a) should not be lurking because if they are good they are usually always active in their games (so if they are lurking and posting not much substance it will be suspicious), and, b) they would be valuable assets (so we should expect strong town play from them and we would expect mafia to try and get rid of them), both good pieces of information for town. That is all I have for now, get to posting and being active everyone! :D Hi I am town. Your name is very fitting ^_^ I am inclined to believe the general tone of your post is townie, even though you do repeat yourself a little bit.
And then what makes me fairly sure that he did that without even reading through things is that he retracts his read on me shortly after based on things that were said almost immediatly:
On June 03 2015 10:08 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:29 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:24 Kickstart wrote:On June 03 2015 06:10 Tictock wrote:
@ Kick
It has always been my policy to deal with inactives by reading their actual posts that much harder.
The idea is that if they are only willing to share a small amount of thoughts or thinking then we should take those posts even more literally/seriously. My point is that we need to foster an environment that doesn't allow inactivity, this is clearly the best environment to have and thus we should strive for it. How we will deal with people that are inactive anyways is another matter. Also people should, eventually, share most of their thoughts. Holding back your thoughts initially to build on them is fine, I already find some things scummy but I am waiting to add to this so as not to let the person/people I find scummy change what they are doing so soon. On June 03 2015 06:12 ritoky wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:02 Kickstart wrote:I just want to go ahead and get this out. A good town environment is one in which no one is allowed to lurk or be passive and not post much of their thoughts. While I honestly don't know any of the players in this game I believe some are new so to them and to everyone else, you have to post. Whether you are 100% sure in your reads or not, posting is good for town. Even if your reads are wrong, being active is good for town to figure out the game. I refuse to allow the game to be a passive one where several people are lurking and not being active and contributing to the conversation because that automatically makes the game harder on town and lessens town's win chance. The 10 post per cycle rule enacted by the host is a good first step but I think it is up to us to make sure that people don't abuse the rule by just posting the minimum number of times and saying nothing of substance. Now what I said applies to every game of course, an active town is always better than a passive town with several lurkers; but I particularly wanted to lead in with this point because I already feel like we might be heading in the direction of a passive/inactive town. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock: Damdred and Tictock already posted before the start of the game that they might not be active. Here are Dam's and TT's posts I am referring to: Thankfully they have both said that they are just sort of busy at the start but will have more time and be more active. I just want to urge them both to be as active as they can from the start, that way everyone can gets reads on them and we don't let them both through just because they aren't active in the first phase but might be in the phases after. Just to be clear though, I am not accusing either of you nor am I suspicious of you for it, because those statements are clearly not alignment indicative because they were made before the game began and people had their roles. I am just saying that I refuse to allow the game to devolve into a passive town game with people lurking and posting nothing of substance and those events already have me worried that we may find ourselves in that position. So I urge you, along with everyone else, to be as active as you can, even if you are strapped for time. Now that that is out of the way, could those who have played in games with some of the other people in the game (or if you know them) tell me who the strong players? I haven't played mafia on here since 2012 so I have no idea who the good players are and I think knowing this is helpful. I know this request seems a bit scummy ("Oh you wan't to know who the good players are so you can get rid of them!") but I will just concede that and say that knowing who is good tells everyone that those players: a) should not be lurking because if they are good they are usually always active in their games (so if they are lurking and posting not much substance it will be suspicious), and, b) they would be valuable assets (so we should expect strong town play from them and we would expect mafia to try and get rid of them), both good pieces of information for town. That is all I have for now, get to posting and being active everyone! :D saw good town environment, stopped reading. ![[image loading]](http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h38/mrcrapinson/GregFart.gif~original) Can you clarify please? I think you mean you basically eyerolled at my post at the second line and didn't bother reading it. Could you clarify what you meant, and in the future not post your thought in the form of GIFs and images? It was a long post made immediately after the day post, which means it was planned and probably planned regardless of alignment. It says nothing about your alignment and only about some bs intentions you plan to traffic cop about to appear like you're doing shit for the game. I don't really care about reading more than a paragraph because it won't teach me anything about your alignment. I will continue to post pictures, deal with it. I actually love the read in bold. It doesn't necessarily clear you as town but I am inclined to like you more for the honesty. I fully retract my read on Kickstart but after continuing to read ritoky's posting I just really want to say I believe he is town. He's just very forward and open about his thoughts in such a way that I believe would be very difficult and bold to do as a mafia. On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote:On June 03 2015 06:33 Kickstart wrote:
Well, those that have played with ritoky, is he always like this? I suppose if he always does this he has to keep up his 'meta', however annoying and unhelpful it happens to be.
Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started. My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote:
Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ miloCan you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote:
I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote:
Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature:
##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. I actually think your re-hashing what other people said much more concisely is scummy. I had the same initial thoughts with regards to 'annoying read' vs 'scum read' because as a general rule it is a scumtell, but something about the specific sentence structure of how he said it gave me like a 'townie vibe' as a new forum player for some reason. If you are town I encourage you to remember that while lurking is bad that being too drawn-out and repetitive in your posts is just as bad on the opposite extreme.
I also found it weird that he says to me "I agree with everything you said but the way you say it makes you suspicious", I don't get that at all but I am probably biased as it is about me.
Also note the trend of just saying everyone seems townie to him (that others have pointed out). Take a look through his filter and you will see that a large number of his posts are just him going "good point, I have a town read on you" to several people.
The other issue I took with GGT was his immediate vote onto Ticktock which I didn't understand at all, here is his post throwing down his vote:
On June 03 2015 09:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote:
##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town My gut tells me the specific diction you chose with regards to being 'morally' okay with it inclines me to believe you are townie. On June 03 2015 06:17 Tictock wrote:
In regards to kicks question.
I am pretty new to TL forums. Have played in 2 of the newbie games (the 2 most recent ones, including the ongoing one).
I see a few familiar names, but most of you I don't know... and am HIGHLY suspicious of...
And of course I know SL, who I may have to ignore. I apologize in advance if I start tunneling him, I have a tendency to do that. I think your intentional emphasis on the fact that you are 'HIGHLY' suspicious of people is scum-indicative. You are making sure we all know you are 'suspicious' of people, aka have imperfect information aka are town. A very roundabout and subtle way to go about telling people you are town. I think this is an excellent policy vote. ##Vote Tictock
A silly vote in my mind masked by some bullshit about "policy vote", whole thing makes no sense to me. Not to mention that he is giving someone flack for something he deems as them 'hinting being town' as he says, when his very first post was "Hi I am town". I just don't see what he sees at all. I suppose I should know from ticktock if you guys have a history similar to that of yours and sicklucker. You were able to explain the sicklucker vote on you which I also found odd, but GGTs is even stranger to me, especially if he has no history with ticktock.
This post I also don't like because ticktock was definatly stating an opinion that most of the thread held at that point in time but GGT makes the claim that TT is scummy for saying it. He also makes the claim that TT isn't being genuine and doesn't actually believe what he is saying (or that that is how TTs post appeared to him), I don't like that either.
Last thing, while not much, is the classic pure list post that is completely void of content:
On June 04 2015 00:44 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Town:
Nydus
sicklucker
Milo89
Fideu86
Mafia:
Kickstark
Tictock
I have already expressed that I don't like either of his "scum reads", if they can be called that. But what is stranger to me is the town list because again, a look through his filter will show that he has called several people townie, some of whom aren't even on the list (ritocky), and others who are on this list he hasn't even said anything about (milo, fideu).
Given that I have some reservations about my previous scum reads, as I have outlined, I think now I feel that the order of most scummy is GGT, followed by milo and then sicklucker. Even though I still find milo and sicklucker suspicious for all the reasons I stated, I think GGT is far more likely to be scum at this point in time, and thus, my vote goes on him for now.
##Unvote
##Vote: GGTeMpLaR
If you could, I would like for you to explain your list post more GGT, specifically the town reads you've put on there when you didn't even mention those people or interact with them at all before. Would also like to know if you still find tictock and myself suspicious, if not then who, if so then why?
Got to run for now, took me way longer than I expected to make this post and I'm probably going to be late for my appointment! Be back in like 90 minutes or so!
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Well since it seems GGT isnt here yet to answer any questions, what do others think of my read on him? I know ritocky echod the concern about that insane list post and scott said he agreed with the post. Is GGT scummy to you guys as well or do you find another person more scummy atm, and aside from ritocky and scott what does everyone else think of my GGT read?
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On June 04 2015 04:59 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 04:51 Kickstart wrote:
Well since it seems GGT isnt here yet to answer any questions, what do others think of my read on him? I know ritocky echod the concern about that insane list post and scott said he agreed with the post. Is GGT scummy to you guys as well or do you find another person more scummy atm, and aside from ritocky and scott what does everyone else think of my GGT read? I would rather not be misrepresented. I don't think templar looks that scummy. He is pretty much null. I think your last point about how his town reads changed a lot w/o explanation seems like a good point of pressure. However the rest of your case is meh. Like I said I don't mind a lot of what templar said and the particular posts he keyed in on. Also kickstart, can you give a town read on someone. The big issue I am having getting a solid read on you is you seem to be OMGUSing everything that walks.
Well me OMGUSing everything is a stretch. I went on milo and sl before they even mentioned me, and my read on GGT is the same with or without him directing anything at me. I am generally of the opinion that town reads aren't of much use D1, but I was pressured to name some earlier and I named yourself and VE, for basically the same reasons. I felt that you were both applying pressure when needed, you were both driving discussion, and both were being open and honest with your thoughts - all of which I think is helpful and thus I feel that you have been helpful for town up to this point. Does that mean I think you are both 100% town? No, but I feel confident in saying that I would not vote on either of you this cycle. To be honest the only other person I feel is slightly town atm is Nydus, but definitely not on the same level as you two. I have real issues with almost everyone else who I havent mentioned because I just feel their posts are void of strong feelings and I don't like that style of play. Namely I feel like Damdred, scott, Onegu, and Fideu (just off the top of my head) are not giving us anything to work with, their posts are void of reads and strong opinions, and while Damdred has asked a lot of questions and put a bit of pressure on at times, he is still guilty of not giving us his thoughts (though he said this is how he plays and that he will wait to make a stronger case when he is ready - which I intend to hold him too, if Day 1 ends and he is still guilty of what I outlined above I will have some real questions about him because he has been active enough and seems experiences and good enough to give some solid reads but has yet to do so). I think scott and fideu are new so I can understand the reluctance to stick their necks out on anything but I don't feel that is a real excuse, they still need to share their thoughts on things. Onegu seems to have arrived late on the scene but already his posting style is suspicious to me, much too much joking around; while this is normal and understandable at the start of the game, I feel like there is plenty of content to actually address, which he has not done. Can anyone tell me if this is normal posting from Onegu?
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On June 04 2015 05:25 Damdred wrote:
So basically almost 24 hours in game you only have a strong opinion that 2 people are town one lean and the rest is null. Meh that post just irks me, it says a lot without actually doing much bah.
Just because you refuse to give us opinions on anyone and I keep asking you too is no need to omgus me, but whatever. My '2 people are town one learn the rest null' is more than you have offered up. and if there are 13 players, and I know I'm town, we have 12 people. Ive said i find 3 to be scummy, leaves us 9. Of those 9 ive said 3 were town, leaves 6, of those 6 I pointed out all my issues with 4 of them. I don't even know who the 2 I left out are.
So I have given my thoughts on almost every single player in the game while you haven't given your thoughts on a single one.
Stay mad.
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Also, I'm really not trying to be an ass Damdred, but I have asked you several times for your opinions on anyone and you don't want to give them out because you claim that is just how you play, but then you come off with this holier than thou attitude at me that I want strong opinions but don't give any when I feel that I've been extremely vocal and forthright with my opinions. You claiming I'm saying a lot without doing much just annoys me because I have already pressured several people and given 3 scum reads, 2 of which I think still are strong and hold true.
My Nydus town lean is just because he seems to be forthright with his thoughts and recently he seems to be getting similar impressions I am on most people. He did initially scum read me and I didn't like him at all for that, and he thought you were suspicious ritocky which I did not agree with at the time, but again I feel like he is sticking his neck out and being honest with his thoughts, therefor I would most likely not lynch him at this point in time.
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And yes I agree that town reads are helpful to an extent. I just am of the opinion that, especially on day 1, you can not be 100% sure on anything, therefor to me the correct course of action is to find the scum, and that is what I focus on doing. When and if a scum flips after a lynch, then I generally feel safe in considering someone almost surely town by looking at how they dealt with that person. But again, it is day 1 at the moment and we don't have that sort of information yet so the best we can do is find the scum.
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Tbh I just thought of someone other than yourself and VE to call town because people keep pressuring me to do so, and you are right, he just came to mind because he agreed with me on GGT and that is what happened most recently. I agree with everything you said, and next time people force me for more reads when I've given at least 5 I'll tell them to fuck off because this is what happens when I feel obligated to come up with someone else to throw on a list.
Now I am annoyed.
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It is my fault though. People are applying pressure to me cause I am one of a couple of people who are actually here posting at the moment which is fine, I just didn't handle it well and posted something without thinking it through because people asked me to "give more" when I feel I've given plenty. That said, I still have people I would rather pressure, and people who I find scummier than Nydus.
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On June 04 2015 06:56 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 05:35 Kickstart wrote:On June 04 2015 05:25 Damdred wrote:
So basically almost 24 hours in game you only have a strong opinion that 2 people are town one lean and the rest is null. Meh that post just irks me, it says a lot without actually doing much bah. Just because you refuse to give us opinions on anyone and I keep asking you too is no need to omgus me, but whatever. My '2 people are town one learn the rest null' is more than you have offered up. and if there are 13 players, and I know I'm town, we have 12 people. Ive said i find 3 to be scummy, leaves us 9. Of those 9 ive said 3 were town, leaves 6, of those 6 I pointed out all my issues with 4 of them. I don't even know who the 2 I left out are. So I have given my thoughts on almost every single player in the game while you haven't given your thoughts on a single one. Stay mad. I think most people in this game who've played with me will attest that I don't generally omgus. And this isn't at this point. However your posts fit very much into the vein of Lots of Words with little content. Like your big post that irkd me, a simple question was asked to you yet you turned it into a wall of text without any real explanation on why certain people are town. Instead you threw scum on certain people and then said "if they dont' do x before Y". That's not real content nor is that actual reads if you think something is scummy its scummy, not this half whishy washy things that permeate your posts at points.
We just seem not to like each other, which is fine I guess. But I haven't been wishy washy at all. My scum reads are GGt, milo, and sicklucker, in that order. Town reads are ritocky and VE in that order. To say that I have indicated anything other than what I just said is to not have read what I've said. You keep saying I have given little content yet I have stated over and over and over and over and over again who my scum reads are, and that I like ritocky and VEs posting this far (though VE hasn't said much in awhile but hopefully whenever he gets back to the thread he will). Meanwhile, I still don't know who your scum reads are, as I have pointed out for quite some time now. You are just totally having a go at me and nothing you are saying about my posts holds true. It is annoying, and you've done it enough, I would now like you to say something about some other people, or are you still going to pull the "i dont play that way" card?
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Took a nap cause I was feeling like shit and moody, probably came through in my posting. Lots of people have taken issue with my Nydus town read. I just want to say again that it was hastily done and I just said it off the top of my head because people were pressuring me to give more town reads (which again I don't find fair since I gave them, but people are greedy and wanted more and I reacted badly). It can be ignored and I have tried to explain why it happened, I will have to reevaluate him later but like I said I would probably not lynch him at the moment.
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Oh and @ Fid. On page 13 I was referring to SL, I was waiting to see if he was ever going to say anything else, but he has made it pretty clear that he is just gonna lurk for now, which is unfortunate and makes him more suspicious to me. Also just for clarity, VT is vanilla town, not a veteran claim; and you really should not hunt for blues, we have 1 blue in the game so if mafia figure out who it is it is bad for us.
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EPT
