EPTNoir Mini Mafia: Chapter 3 - Page 4
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
is it really imperative that we lynch him without giving him a proper chance? I mean, if he's scum he's going to continue to delay and be useless and probably just tunnel damdred (a la single-focus mindset in aperture). As town, maybe he becomes more useful? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 23 2015 08:17 rsoultin wrote: how many days do you want to put off lynching, yamato? he was in the thread last night and being obstructive. did you say you liked his case? what did you like about it? I said it wasn't that bad Do you really believe ONLY scum BH makes a case like that? I certainly don't. I don't even like damdred that much this game. I don't really care for his responses to the case either. He essentially came out with nothing. How was he being obstructive? He argued about his case, sure, but who wouldn't want to defend their piece of work? It's silly to scumread him for believing his read. What do we really lose by not lynching right now, exactly? I argued against this sort of idea before but only as a means to actually apply pressure. It doesn't mean anything to lynch BH here because he's really only been in the thread to post his case and defend it. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
had 16 pages of filter as town before he was mislynched yes, blazinghand is capable of astounding uselessness, but he's also capable of that he literally promised activity, and showed effort in the large case, no reason to rush lynching him as mafia, it would have been incredibly easy to just say nothing and have his lynch go through, but whatever gj on the mislynch, folks | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 24 2015 09:55 rsoultin wrote: okay so how does this line up with jumping down artanis' throat for wanting to wait for bh/palmar to pick up? lol as mafia it's just as easy when town is set to mislynch a player to say oh no guys we shouldn't lynch him as well, so take that bs somewhere else that was before BH had even played dunno how the two are even comparable tbh | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 24 2015 10:01 rsoultin wrote: okay...so just explain your thought process? if you know he's capable of try-harding with time why is it bad to give him time in the first place? like, even if it's possible for him to be lazy as fuck i don't understand your reaction to artanis wanting to delay the vote so bh and palmar had a chance to do things if you knew bh can do that when he plays In the first instance, it's not about BH specifically, it's about the game itself. You must be active with the lynch and try to put pressure on people or it's basically a useless mechanic (IML, that is). Maybe you newbies don't really understand this but I've played a fair amount of IML as both town and mafia so there's that. The point was, why should we specifically wait for BH and Palmar to play if it's possible that they won't play, even as town? It's both a waste of time and suboptimal play. Artanis was using it as a reason to essentially do nothing. The BH mislynch was avoidable, because by that time it was fairly obvious that BH actually was invested in the game at least enough to make that huge damdred case. Say what you want about the quality or accuracy of his read, sure, but it was a lot of effort nonetheless. He even went on to defend it against most people in the thread and was visibly offended by people's disregard for his effort. Essentially, why was it necessary to push the lynch through at that moment in time? Everyone was overly hasty when BH had made it abundantly clear he wouldn't be around to provide more content. Was there some sort of downside to allowing him more time to play? If he's scum and just making excuses as YOUR NARRATIVES SUGGESTED (like how I use that word? yeah it's pretty stupid) he'd just continue to make excuses and not really prove himself town. HOWEVER, I had reason to believe that an invested BH could prove himself town and even suggested such before the deadline, but no one really seemed interested in discussing my meta read of BH so whatever. You call me scum for it now? I laugh in your face. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I still think Artanis looks pretty bad. Thoughts on wagon were subpar Obviously I don't care for the lack of critical thought trfel is displaying in reading me currently, but apparently his sentiment is shared, so whatever. Perhaps the votes on BH will be useful, but it seems unlikely given that no other real wagon was formed and people just sorta afk'd their way to lynching the guy who wasn't even able to defend himself. I'll take a look at them either way. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 24 2015 10:17 rsoultin wrote: lol considering you've seen the way i treat scumreads, the level of defensiveness here is quite unnecessary, yamato xP mmm i don't know, like i can see what you're saying i guess but my problem with it is there just was no reason to be that nuts about it. if artanis used it as an excuse to do nothing, that didn't mean the rest of us had to, and iml really is not significantly different from any other lynch mechanic when the majority only matters one time every 24 hours -_- like you keep saying we can use it differently than in other games, when the only major difference i actually see is that more town players have to be on a mislynch for it to go through since it's still up against a deadline it's no different than any other pressure voting, except we have some control over the pace of the game In a regular game, you get 1 lynch every 48 hours. That's it. In terms of pressure voting, you really only get to do that to MAYBE 2 people per day, and that's it. In an IML game, even this style, you still only get 1 lynch every day, but that day can be both ridiculously short OR incredibly long. By balancing the two well, you are able to pressure vote as many people as you feel necessary before you decide on a real lynch, allowing you to force inactive players to play, cause mafia to make mistakes, and force opinions on multiple targets throughout the day. Of course, this requires an organized effort by town. You can't have some people just sitting back and coasting along or your plan really falls to pieces. You also can't have blase lynches where town is apathetic. In that way, both Artanis' proposed play (and even his actual play, given his action around the lynch) AND the BH mislynch were suboptimal. Understandable? My pressure on Artanis was intentional, if a little over-done. You have the power to threaten people with the lynch at basically any time. 24 hours is not a lot of time. I felt like it was being wasted. Unfortunately, I didn't put in enough work to find a viable alternative to the BH mislynch in time, so I'm partially to blame for what happened, but it's just absurd to suggest that I'm mafia for a misinterpreted look into my stance on BH's play and the lynch mechanics overall. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 24 2015 10:24 rsoultin wrote: strategy talk aside i'm actually fine with how you handled the bh lynch, though...looks pretty natural at a second look mmmmrrrrt i was supposed to be doing schoolwork >< you distractions xP while you're doing that, I'll be formulating updated reads | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Not tonight though. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I'll try tonight, perhaps. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I work weekends Not rolling over and dying, just not having time to play a whole bunch | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Make it worthwhile. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I will read your posts you seem like a reasonable dude this game and you owe me for last game so yeah. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
His trfel read kinda synced with mine a bit at eod so I wavered but with rso basically calling him (trfel) conf town I dunno if my read is even good so I can't give Artanis much credit there even if we had the same problem with trfel. So I assume you mean these posts, where you outline your problems with Artanis On April 26 2015 06:59 Damdred wrote: A few things really, I felt like today particularly there was a bit more omgus in Artanis for instance in how he dealt with me. Are my reads at that point in the thread substantial? Not really no, are they up to my standards? No not really. But he would rather think i should be the lynch than Yamato? That doesn't necessarily make sense to me in that regard. For instance look at what hes done this day, hes called my case on trfel bad. Which maybe it is, i think that there still might be something there. Voted Palmar unvoted, and then said that I should be the lynch over Yamato. Not sure that there is much reevaluation. Also it is also of note that he didn't get really active for his burst until I pinged him out. Which is interesting. I can't really speak to the flow of the game sort of stuff like OMGUS response and reactive activity seeing as I'm reading everything in hindsight, so this post in and of itself doesn't mean a whole lot to me. On April 26 2015 07:15 Damdred wrote: Just an exert then we have this Finally this, i went through Arts filter and there is no Yamato scum read in it. Just things like, I could make better posts but that doesn't make Yamato scum etc., This post, where you ping out his changing read on me, is quite interesting. Notably, I literally haven't given a new read since eod, so how could Artanis go from such a confident strong townread to such a weak justification of voting for me in such a short time? ritoky did this sort of thing as scum in the last game and it really brought him forward to me as possible mafia. His follow-up where he continues to push you while casually calling me mafia is quite interesting though. Wouldn't it be really easy for scum Artanis to just flock to the herd rather than continue to ping you out? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 24 2015 22:20 Damdred wrote: 1) Underplaying yourself is one of the scummy things that I believe exists 2) The main issue is that you come out of the gate really strong on Yamato. Heres why I think hes scum, and you line up all these reasons but then at the very read you dismiss yourself and make it seem like you aren't strong on him at all. 3) How do you know its throwing the game if you push your Yamato read forever? If you think hes scum legitimately you wouldn't think you would be throwing the game, if you are scum you know that it will lose the game for town. Hence why you just said "If you want me to throw the game for town" you said for town because you aren't town. ##Vote Trfel as far as the trfel thing goes, I just think he's bad I mean, his case is pretty weak overall and obviously he isn't amazingly confident in it, but I've come to realize that maybe he just plays this way I dunno if I've ever seen a mafia make a case and then turn around and say, "but this is why I could be wrong", at least to the degree that trfel is doubting his own read. He's not going to convince anyone playing this way, but I've been in his spot as town before, many a time. It's not like his read is changing inexplicably, in a scummy sort of way, it's just that he's uncertain. Uncertainty can be a town tell. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 26 2015 15:24 rsoultin wrote: lol the thing about you yamato is i like you when you post (the majority of the time) :/ so what was going on at EoD D1? were you really more sure about BH who you thought we should give more time to than say artanis and wave who you'd been pressuring most of the game earlier? what happened during that 40 minutes of silence when you disappeared right before deadline? eod D1 I felt like it was most important to have a read on BH, as no one else was really being pushed as a lynch target and not much else was being discussed at that time, trfel looked kinda bad to me but wasn't a clearly good lynch. given that you disagreed with my read of him and no one else even was around to comment on it. I liked artanis' line of questioning of trfel also at the time so it was difficult to see him as scum when he had the exact same criticism of trfel's play that I did. Wave I need to read more in depth. I have this bad tendency of just glazing over his posts because they are generally quite wordy and it's difficult to get a handle on his play. I still think his early play was odd but I really need to revisit him. Honestly, the eod D1 thing was also sort of selfish in that I wanted more time to reformulate my reads. I felt a bit lost at that point and saw I was failing to convince people to wait and see with BH so I just sort of stopped playing. It was bad but only you and Artanis were even around and you weren't budging. Meh. I'll read Wave and Artanis' filter and post more concrete thoughts. I really haven't read anything posted this cycle so >_> | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 25 2015 19:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote: ##Unvote Palmar reacted pretty much exactly how I'd expect Town!Palmar to reply. Uncompromising and in your face whilst still doing stuff. Need to think about Yamato. ... Artanis' read change apparently happens over just a single page, basically because Palmar posts his case on me. I doubt that town Artanis flips his strong townread of me and scumread of Palmar just because Palmar posts that case. zzz More likely, it seems like Artanis saw that people were sheeping Palmar and decided to lynch down the path of least resistance, given that I haven't been playing and Palmar has played... on occasion. His read of Damdred seems mostly based on some meta-assumption of Damdred's play which I can't comment on much. He does seem to back off his scumreads quite easily when pressured. At this moment I'm unsure what his reads are, as he sheepishly backing off as Damdred pushed back, and his read of me was sort of a matter-of-fact type of thing rather than a strong belief that I was actually mafia. I would certainly lynch Artanis today, given his rather weak reads. I've commented many times on how his early play was scummy and how his comments on the BH lynch were bad, and reading his filter really doesn't change my perception of his play much, either. He's continued to excuse his lack of motivation to play this game and hasn't really played much better. | ||
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