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Noir Mini Mafia: Chapter 3 - Page 4

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 23:59 GMT
#629
See you guys tomorrow. No legacy because I'm not dying.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:01 GMT
#634
Hello.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:02 GMT
#636
Palmar, any thoughts on the game?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:07 GMT
#639
On April 24 2015 09:06 yamato77 wrote:
will play later. have LYLO to do in other game
Too bad, you're the person I'm most interested in.

Oh well, it is what it is.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:10 GMT
#643
On April 21 2015 08:40 Hapahauli wrote:

3) Mafia KP is delivered by individual players, and is therefore block-able. Mafia can opt not to shoot, and can use that saved KP the next night (in addition to normal KP).

Good luck, have fun!
Bleh.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:11 GMT
#646
DO NOT CLAIM
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:13 GMT
#649
On April 24 2015 09:12 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 09:11 rsoultin wrote:
lol the first thought that went through my head was...

the fuck? we can't be that wrong about everything that scum would rather no-shoot >< blah now i have to reread

oooor apparently can kill two of us the next night -_- if they no-shoot

lovely

Where does it say that?
I quoted it.

I can tell people are paying attention to me.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:21 GMT
#655
On April 24 2015 09:20 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 09:15 Palmar wrote:
Yes I found it.

So I'm bad sorry. Mafia absolutely held their shot. They always do when this option is available. ALWAYS.


I don't really get that. Like if there is a detective role they are just letting them get a free check. By not killing anyone they ensure our Pr doesn't die and if we have a saving role using two KP in one night feels like it increases the chances that they will get a save.

Does anyone have any conclusions from BH flipping town because i got none currently

I'm kind of suspicious of the way that yamato77 dealt with the Blazinghand wagon. Does anyone else agree, or am I being tunneled against him?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:24 GMT
#659
Hm, actually...

I just noticed a contradiction that yamato77 gave in regards to Blazinghand's activity.

When Artanis was asking to delay to get Blazinghand and Palmar to play, yamato77 said that Blazinghand was capable of astonishing uselessness as town.

When Blazinghand was hammered, yamato77 asked to wait another day to get a better read on Blazinghand, since Blazinghand can defend himself really hard when he is town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:26 GMT
#660
I'm waiting for Artanis to arrive at a conclusion about me before I detail my thoughts on him.

But I don't see a reason in his filter to scumread him. If he is scum here, it's more about what isn't there than what [/i]is[/i], I think. At this time I don't want to lynch him, though he might be scum here.

I'm much more confident on yamato77 being mafia.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:30 GMT
#662
Of course. I might even want to no-lynch twice.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 01:37 GMT
#681
yamato77
  • Yamato77 tends to focus on things that don't matter very much
    + Show Spoiler +
    On April 21 2015 11:45 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 21 2015 11:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
    On April 21 2015 11:30 yamato77 wrote:
    When have I done something like this as mafia, Wave?

    Like....why did you even feel the need to bring this up?

    Because it's a statement with no basis.

    "I could see Yamato doing this as either alignment" is tantamount to saying "I could see Yamato doing this as mafia."

    Why do you think that's the case, precisely, if you aren't using meta? Why mention me by name at all if you're just going to make some sort of puffball generalized statement?

    Very strange, Wave.
    Right at the start of the game, yamato77 is picking on something that isn't relevant. WaveofShadow gave a null read on yamato77, and yamato77 spent several posts questioning it and only later showed any relation to WaveofShadow's alignment (calling it strange). The most suspicious thing is that yamato77 spent time asking an obvious question instead of cutting straight to the point, that WaveofShadow gave a null read (which still isn't important, because WaveofShadow was providing reads on the three players who voted for him, and one of them happened to be null).
    On April 21 2015 12:46 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 21 2015 12:45 Breshke wrote:
    On April 21 2015 12:38 rsoultin wrote:
    lol you just quoted the reason i'm questioning wave, breshke, and yet you ask?

    the points you brought up in your post are the same ones that i don't care about...also in what you just quoted

    kinda obvious there, bresh


    Idk somethings lost on me here but i dont see how you cant care about the context of his reads with him thinking it was IML but then wanting to know why the yamato and artanis read was different.

    Anyway I don't really care about this stuff because i don't think it says that much about waves alignment.

    so you don't have a read on him, but you're intervening on his behalf.

    mmmmmmmk.
    Yamato77 comments on Breshke defending a null read. But other than perhaps implied suspicion, there are no alignment indicative conclusions from this post.
    On April 22 2015 06:13 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
    That doesn't force anything. They'll participate if they feel like it this game.

    Well, they can continue to do nothing, and then we can lynch them then bitch about them not playing to their win condition. The point is, we can give them time due to there not being a hard deadline, so there's no excuses for them not to participate.

    artanis, is this seriously your plan this game?
    Then there's the push on Artanis for his statement about waiting on Palmar and Blazinghand to start playing before continuing. I fully realize that I questioned this first. I feel that yamato77 was more hostile to Artanis's statements and kept up the questioning longer than he should have, and wasn't interested in actually drawing a correct conclusion about Artanis's alignment (while I pressured Artanis primarily for the reaction and backed off when I got it). Still, this is something I probably shouldn't have picked on this. It was a mistake, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't scummy for yamato77 to do this.
    On April 22 2015 06:26 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:23 rsoultin wrote:
    okay, truffle

    so i'm scum artanis

    my scum partner may or may not be one of bh or palmar, but can't be both

    so i say let's wait until they do something rather than trying to push a hasty vote through? xP bh said he'd do something later if we give him some room...palmar's a coinflip...most day phases last 48 hours anyway and unless you've got someone you're super sure is scum i see no problem with pushing this out to a standard 48...

    not saying it makes him town, but i don't see how it makes him scum. essentially you're keying in on something nai. again

    To me, it sounded like Artanis is ONLY going to focus on them today, fuck all else, we lynch them if they don't contribute.

    Seems a bit arbitrary to pick those two exact players who are known to be useless as both alignments and narrow the lynch to them ONLY.
    This is shown by the way that he continued this line of questioning. Here, he isn't trying to learn anything about Artanis's alignment, he is only justifying his stance. This isn't gaining him anything except for more arguing.
    On April 22 2015 06:33 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 05:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    Plus that gives me an excuse to play GTA V once it's installed.

    like, this is his follow-up post to his suggestion

    joking or not, dude obviously isn't too keen on contributing to town today
    He keeps talking about how scummy this is, culminating in a vote on Artanis, for this one post. Which isn't relevant to Artanis's alignment at all, especially after Artanis clearly demonstrated that he was going to keep following and playing the game, which yamato77 ignored.
    On April 22 2015 06:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:39 yamato77 wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:32 yamato77 wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    Yes look at all the waiting I'm doing.

    you're responding to PRESSURE

    you aren't the one doing the pressing

    big difference

    I'm responding to idiots being idiots and it's unfortunate as I could have spent that time playing GTA5.

    Actually, I couldn't because it's not installed yet, but that's semantics.

    so you freely admit you don't actually care to play the game beyond wasting time waiting for Palmar/BH?

    alright

    ##unvote
    ##Vote: Artanis

    I'd be happy to spend that time doing analysis, but I'm not exactly in the mood for that anymore after the idiocy that went down, so yeah, I'm just gonna go and chill for today.
    Posts like this, for example, clearly show that Artanis's statement doesn't mean that he is going to stop playing the game.

    On April 23 2015 07:36 yamato77 wrote:
    I mean, look at the null post

    He says I was "focusing on irrelevant things" (blatantly not true?)

    He didn't like the "direction" I sent the thread in. Nebulous statement.

    Hm.
    Here's yamato77's read on me. Lately, I've been having comments about being biased towards other people's reads on me, so I'm not going to consider this too much. While I don't think that this is a good read, and I don't think that it shows clear thought process, he is taking a stance and investigating it.

  • Yamato77's isn't focused in his pushes
    + Show Spoiler +
    Yamato77 first pushes suspicion towards WaveofShadow for explaining a null read on himself early in the game. However, since then, he's barely commented to WaveofShadow at all, and has never expressed things about his alighment. Yamato77 has shared a ton of suspicions of WaveofShadow, and next to nothing to alleviate these suspicions, but never actually pushes WaveofShadow for the entire game.

    Yamato77 started to scumread Artanis for his statement on Palmar and Blazinghand, and even voted for him.
    On April 22 2015 06:43 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:38 rsoultin wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:37 yamato77 wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:34 rsoultin wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:31 yamato77 wrote:
    like, the advantage of IML to me is that it's REALLY easy to put pressure on people by just piling a few votes on and making that player respond to them

    alignments are generally more obvious as someone is going to get lynched

    in a normal game, you really only get the chance to do this to like, one or two people per day

    but in IML you can do it to literally every person

    sure, we have all the time in the world, but it's stupid to waste it waiting on known trolls like BH/Palmar to play the game


    then who do you want to lynch in the next 2.5 hours, yama?

    the point is the threat of the lynch

    you use it actively as a tool to force people to play the game

    you don't use it passively and hope they play the game


    then do it? no one is stopping you

    do you think he's town, or something?

    Why do you wish to play foil?
    He seems to be extremely confident in this read.
    On April 23 2015 07:28 yamato77 wrote:
    I don't like Artanis' post where he comments on the case offhandedly and then votes trfel

    but I also don't like trfel calling me mafia for shit reasons and then sheeping the BH lynch
    And here's another reason to scumread Artanis.
    On April 23 2015 07:39 yamato77 wrote:
    Artanis!

    Seems like you and I have the same problem with trfel, haha.
    And then a reason to townread Artanis.
    On April 23 2015 07:50 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 23 2015 07:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    On April 23 2015 07:45 yamato77 wrote:
    On April 23 2015 07:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    BH deserves to be lynched for not posting the British Empire Mafia post-game analysis anyway.

    So you consent to the BH lynch, Artanis?

    or...?

    I don't oppose it. I honestly have no idea what he'll flip but a bunch of people look townier and I don't think I'll ever be confident in reading him as town so him going today is fine.

    -pukes on keyboard-
    And then this. His vote is still on Artanis.
    On April 23 2015 08:12 yamato77 wrote:
    I'll freely admit I don't have a better lynch at this second but it's not really important to, at this point
    But lynching Artanis isn't better than lynching Blazinghand, who he's been protesting the lynch of. And he isn't pushing Artanis at all. I don't understand this. Even if his vote on Artanis is just a pressure vote, he doesn't seem interested in actually applying pressure.

    On April 23 2015 07:30 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 23 2015 07:28 rsoultin wrote:
    On April 23 2015 07:27 yamato77 wrote:
    alright, so the BH case in and of itself isn't really that bad

    honestly, the BH that does this whole martyring thing has been town in the past

    I've also seen him be scum and use delay tactics, but is this really a delay tactic?

    I'm unsure about this lynch, bros


    what's the better lynch?

    we're getting there

    I'm really still in the process of catching up all the way

    insight into trfel, maybe? you seem to think he's town but I don't really see it
    Then there's yamato77's push on me. Here he doesn't see how I can be townread. And he doesn't revisit this read.

    Finally, there's his defense of Blazinghand. The read itself I will with later. But he isn't confident in the lynch and asks for more time. However, he doesn't seem terribly interested in this at all. He makes a total of four posts on Blazinghand, one of which was an addition saying that he had no better lynch suggestions. With 39 minutes to End of Day, he left, without saying that he was leaving. He doesn't seem interested at keeping Blazinghand alive at all.

  • Yamato77 showed an inconsistent view on how to deal with Blazinghand
    + Show Spoiler +
    On April 22 2015 06:18 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:13 yamato77 wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
    That doesn't force anything. They'll participate if they feel like it this game.

    Well, they can continue to do nothing, and then we can lynch them then bitch about them not playing to their win condition. The point is, we can give them time due to there not being a hard deadline, so there's no excuses for them not to participate.

    artanis, is this seriously your plan this game?

    Is there any point to this question?

    I mean, you're not going to look for a lynch among the active players, you're just going to default to sitting on Palmar/BH in the hopes of forcing them to play when they are both capable of astounding uselessness AS TOWN?
    On April 22 2015 06:35 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:32 Damdred wrote:
    Hey guys my name is bh, I'm moving so I won't be doing much don't lynch me give me time.-scum bh

    HEY GUYS I HAVE A NEW JOB WONT DO ANYTHING FOR AWHILE SO DONT LYNCH ME-BH this game

    this is equally asinine

    why do you want to focus on BH over commenting seriously on ANY other player in the game?

    Do you honestly believe BH incapable of being a lazy fuck as town? I don't.
    Twice, to separate people, yamato77 claimed that Blazinghand can be extremely useless as town, and that there is no point in waiting for him.

    Then, Blazinghand posted his case on Damdred. This case is best described as a narrative (as rsoultin describes it), meaning that the case is simply a recounting of all of the things that Damdred has done in the game, interpreted with a mafia mindset. There is no explanation of why Damdred couldn't be town and doing these same things, and no reason why the mafia mindset is more likely.
    On April 23 2015 07:27 yamato77 wrote:
    alright, so the BH case in and of itself isn't really that bad

    honestly, the BH that does this whole martyring thing has been town in the past

    I've also seen him be scum and use delay tactics, but is this really a delay tactic?

    I'm unsure about this lynch, bros
    Yamato says that it isn't that bad of a case. No explanation why. He says that Blazinghand has martyred in the past as town, but Blazinghand is willing to do anything to win (and even I know that he martyrs as mafia, despite only playing with him once before).
    On April 23 2015 08:10 yamato77 wrote:
    looking back at one memorable BH-mislynch, the guy got REALLY active once it was apparent he was going to be lynched.

    is it really imperative that we lynch him without giving him a proper chance?

    I mean, if he's scum he's going to continue to delay and be useless and probably just tunnel damdred (a la single-focus mindset in aperture). As town, maybe he becomes more useful?
    I don't understand what changed. Yamato77 basically admits that Blazinghand's play in this game, activity aside, was scummy, and he says that Blazinghand hasn't been given a proper chance. But if this isn't a delay tactic, then hasn't he already been given a proper chance?

    I also notice the way yamato77's tone changed after the lynch. Suddenly, he was extremely confident in the lynch being terrible, and everyone on it throwing the game. But he didn't actually say that much about the Blazinghand lynch before the deadline, and didn't seem to care that much about whether or not Blazinghand was lynched. The tone change after the lynch is a good sign that yamato77 is trying to pick up the town credit for not mislynching here.

    It's even more telling that yamato77 provides more evidence after the deadline. He's had a whole day to recover emotionally, so any anger he felt shouldn't be here any more. And he need not be defending himself from these minor pressures, especially since I'm the only one who actively seems suspicious of him (and he's scumreading me, and I haven't described my reasons for my scumread of him by the time he was defending his stance on Blazinghand). This doesn't strike me as town play.
This leads me to think that yamato77 is scum. However, there are a few things that give me pause. First, his tone is extremely relaxed and comfortable, which can be difficult for mafia. Second, people often disagree about what is scummy and towny, and what is important and what isn't. And yamato77 is certainly a more experienced and better player than me.

I read the first several pages of yamato77's play in Newbie Student Mafia VI. I'm biased, but in this game, I could immediately feel yamato77 being useful and directing town, and commenting on the most important things in the thread. While tonally it felt similar to this game, I felt that yamato77 was far more effective in Student Mafia VI than in this game. Though I'm not very good at meta reads, and I don't have much experience playing with yamato77.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 01:53 GMT
#682
Now that I think about it some more, were he mafia, he probably would have suggested Artanis or I as an actual alternative to the Blazinghand lynch, or just stayed quiet. Protesting the Blazinghand lynch and not suggesting an alternative isn't what I would do as mafia.

I just don't know about him, every time I convince myself that he is scum, something else comes up that suggests that I'm wrong. I'm almost thinking that he is guaranteed town because I'm scumreading him, but ugh...
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 04:58 GMT
#690
On April 24 2015 13:38 Damdred wrote:
I'm not sure what else you want me to explain,

Art really isn't helping town

Trfel at this point is being pretty wordy while showing the thread that her suspicions while leaving doubt in there for a backtack for example

Show nested quote +
Though I'm not very good at meta reads, and I don't have much experience playing with yamato77.


For someone who was sure of this read enough o dig up old games, much doubt is put into it and distance is put inbetween in case yamato flips town.
Would you rather I be confident in my play to a degree far higher than my skill at mafia warrants?

One surefire way to find town players is to look at my scumreads. Here's what I'm thinking, and yamato77 is a scumread of mine. But I see ways that this read could be wrong, so I'm asking and sharing my thoughts. I could keep holding my thoughts to myself, and analyzing him myself, or I could leave it open to the rest of the thread, where everyone is better than me and can analyze this better than I can. It's a matter of honest, not a matter of alignment.

I mean, if you want me to push my reads to the end of time, I can do that. If you want me to throw the game for town, I can do that as well. Up to you.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 05:10 GMT
#695
On April 24 2015 14:01 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 13:58 Trfel wrote:
On April 24 2015 13:38 Damdred wrote:
I'm not sure what else you want me to explain,

Art really isn't helping town

Trfel at this point is being pretty wordy while showing the thread that her suspicions while leaving doubt in there for a backtack for example

Though I'm not very good at meta reads, and I don't have much experience playing with yamato77.


For someone who was sure of this read enough o dig up old games, much doubt is put into it and distance is put inbetween in case yamato flips town.
Would you rather I be confident in my play to a degree far higher than my skill at mafia warrants?

One surefire way to find town players is to look at my scumreads. Here's what I'm thinking, and yamato77 is a scumread of mine. But I see ways that this read could be wrong, so I'm asking and sharing my thoughts. I could keep holding my thoughts to myself, and analyzing him myself, or I could leave it open to the rest of the thread, where everyone is better than me and can analyze this better than I can. It's a matter of honest, not a matter of alignment.

I mean, if you want me to push my reads to the end of time, I can do that. If you want me to throw the game for town, I can do that as well. Up to you.

So are you calling yamato scum?
I think that I have presented a lot of reasons that make him scum. However, I also see several things that I find unlikely for yamato77 to do. So, I'm hoping that people would comment.

Based on what I said, do you think that yamato77 is scum?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 16:48 GMT
#717
On April 25 2015 01:43 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2015 01:42 Damdred wrote:
I'll reread there interactions but I don't think it looks mafiaxmafia.
I thought Yamato looked good early decent activity ok content, waves picked up later

Half of what Yamato did early was argue with wos only to never follow it up
But he didn't really follow up with his other pushes either.

That or he just likes to feign complete confidence in his reads without actually being that confident in them.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 16:53 GMT
#720
I'm not sure if Palmar has started playing the game seriously yet or not? Can someone please enlighten me?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 22:32 GMT
#729
Sorry, I'm not going to be around for the deadline.

I'm fairly confident that at least one of my townreads is mafia, I'll take another look at them soon.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 04:43 GMT
#893
Hi,

I'm sorry for my absence. I was at a movie-watching event for all three Hobbit films and all three Lord of the Rings films. I'm a bit sleepy at the moment.

I'll catch up tomorrow as soon as I can.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 21:14 GMT
#935
On April 27 2015 06:12 Damdred wrote:
If you pay attention to happas messages, yesterday it said till next vote today says end of cycle basically.

No I've been pretty clear with what my problems are.

You have my attention rsoultin, even though Trfel has done less than breshke let sigh
I'm here and reading, give me a second...

I'm actually rather surprised that Breshke agreed with Palmar about yamato77. Breshke definitely needs a filter dive.
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