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[T] Hajime no Ippo Maifa - Page 5

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 22:13 GMT
#533
You can change votes you know. It's a declaration of intent.

Nobody else really caught my eye besides doing a policy lynch so far.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 22:22 GMT
#538
Talking about me, Koshi.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 22:23 GMT
#541
On April 27 2015 07:17 The Shining wrote:
Yeah trying to follow that read progression kind of hurt, Xata. I'm like just getting up to speed. I actually liked Sand's posts. Speculating on setup this early is dangerous but it could've just been an attempt at figuring out what to expect from this game. I've been scummed as town for talking setup before so naturally I can see how this is possible.

And its like you want to vote him but you don't. You post why you want to. Then another post of "at least he's active though"... Then vote him anyway. If you're on the fence about him, which it looks like you are, then you're on the fence on your own case. I can't buy into it.

Xatas a slight town lean, though, since you've been "off" on Sand since the beginning. I don't see scum pushing the same lynch this hard, even if you're not fully convinced yourself on it.


Eh... It's more about his detachment from active topics and kind of "doing his own thing" (setup mostly) when the thread is moving. Kind of like the feeling that he's posting something to have posted something and not actively following.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 22:25 GMT
#542
On April 27 2015 07:23 Koshi wrote:
Ok. Maybe he is town after all.


Who?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 22:27 GMT
#544
Oh.

I might as well give up on trying to understand Koshi.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 22:55 GMT
#552
I'm not really convinced on the Breshke wagon.

1) "Pretty meh posts" applies to most players so far. He doesn't even have the most "meh" posts.
2) As I said before, it's not like him assuming that a more experienced player would be more likely correct on setup speculation implies that he reads said player as town. It's not hard to fake correct reads as scum, and it's even easier (and profitable) for scum to fake correct setup speculation. I just don't see how a player being correct on some setup thing makes him towny or why Breshke should think so.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 22:59 GMT
#557
On April 27 2015 07:39 indignant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 07:27 Xatalos wrote:
Oh.

I might as well give up on trying to understand Koshi.

I understand this sentiment but it's for the wrong reason. The read on you is legit or at least it was a while ago.


His scumread was legit and townread isn't? I'd say none of his reads make much sense yet. He's just almost saying random reads as far as I can see.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 23:02 GMT
#561
On April 27 2015 07:57 indignant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 07:55 Xatalos wrote:
I'm not really convinced on the Breshke wagon.

1) "Pretty meh posts" applies to most players so far. He doesn't even have the most "meh" posts.
2) As I said before, it's not like him assuming that a more experienced player would be more likely correct on setup speculation implies that he reads said player as town. It's not hard to fake correct reads as scum, and it's even easier (and profitable) for scum to fake correct setup speculation. I just don't see how a player being correct on some setup thing makes him towny or why Breshke should think so.

You obviously didn't even read my post on Breshke. Way to go.


I guess there is the point of him not focusing on anything useful.... *shrug* It's just that neither have most others. And to the last point I already answered with point 2.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 23:15 GMT
#572
On April 26 2015 23:08 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2015 22:59 indignant wrote:
On April 26 2015 22:55 Breshke wrote:
On April 26 2015 22:45 indignant wrote:
On April 26 2015 22:35 Breshke wrote:
On April 26 2015 21:30 indignant wrote:
By the way, if there is a cop in this game: Don't ever check me.


Why not just be really townie instead of saying something that would probably make the cop more interested in you.

I am not allowed to explain this in detail but I am sure you have a brain and can figure it out yourself.


no I understand but obviously someone saying "cop don't investigate me" would naturally make the cop interested in said person so why not just act really townie instead.

If you understand then what's the point of this interrogation?

A) You ask sandro a useless question.
B) You ask me a useless question.
C) You keep the useless questioning up even though you claim to understand why I said what I said.

It feels very much like you are just posting to be posting.


I don't think the question to sandro is a useless one because if he doesnt have a proper explanation i thought it was possible he could be mafia because knowing all the mafias rols would give you a lot more information about what would happen in the night. I have since realised that is probably dumb. You have still never explained how it is obvious how he reached the conclusion that it is 1.5 lynches per night btw.

I understand your reason behind it but i don't think it is a right one. It is like claiming mason some people think that you shouldnt because you are town and just should act town and the cop won't investigate you.

But instead you have basically claimed that a cop investigating you would have bad consequences for the cop which doesn't really seem to be a very town sided role to begin with. Upon that if you were actually town I don't see why you are worried about this in the first place.


Well, it's not like probably correct -> 100% correct. I don't really see the scummy motivation for asking a question where there's a chance of a slip or something. Whatever. I don't think it's anywhere near textbook scum to even make weird/questionable plays in the first place.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 23:19 GMT
#581
I think marv said something like that he tries to play similarly as town/scum whenever possible but he pushes weak "scum"reads more easily as scum. So I'd say it's actually a townie point for him to be indecisive still. Probably.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 23:21 GMT
#583
why not
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 23:24 GMT
#588
rofl

fittle
a girl/guy who likes way too many guys at once and messes with each one's head
you - "oh my god i like (whoever's name) so much!"
me - "i thought you liked (whoever's name)"
you - "i do, but not just him! i like other people too!"
me "you're sucha fittle"
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 23:30 GMT
#597
I hope we get a game where someone has a "tedious gun". If he and the host agree on someone being tedious, the bullet can be used.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 26 2015 23:31 GMT
#600
Good night
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 27 2015 10:20 GMT
#813
Jean: I don't entirely agree with your take on sandroba's opening posts. Maybe it's more of a tone/feel thing. I didn't get the feeling that he tried to "take leadership", more like... post something relatively decent-looking that still didn't do anything?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 27 2015 10:41 GMT
#821
Hmm... There could be something to LS. It's true that he ignored my counter to the Breshke TMI thing and voted him anyway. His added reason of Breshke being "meh" is pretty "meh" a reason to vote in itself.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 27 2015 10:47 GMT
#823
On April 27 2015 19:39 Jean Valjean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 19:27 Breshke wrote:
I don't get why jean started the post with you should listen to me then went onto say that sandroba might probably maybe idk not sure be mafia


It is a play on a common role in mafia games, as well as a reference to the great work from which my name derives.

Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 19:33 indignant wrote:
On April 27 2015 19:29 Jean Valjean wrote:
I don't believe there is ever such a thing as a concrete mafia read. In fact if you allow yourself to remove any hint of doubt or skepticism about your own thoughts, you're setting yourself up to fail.

I believe I had a significant conclusion, and I believe it also helps the rest of the players understand my motives better even if my conclusion isn't any kind of a solid read one direction or the other. It's much more important that everyone understands why I think what I think, rather than just what I think. I tried as best as I can to explain my thought process in forming this read. I think a conclusion like this is just as valuable to town as a strong town lean or strong scum lean.

I think I just found sandroba, and the reaction he created in the game, interesting.

But I can throw down much more concrete reads too, it's just that they're less interesting. Here is one that I feel okay about. I think Xatalos is town. I've thought he was town from the moment he called sandroba out for his opening posts because I just don't think mafia would target posts that almost specifically are made to look good, irrelevant of what I thought of sandroba at the time.

Then I quickly read through his filter in the past 20 minutes, and although it wasn't a deep dive, I believe most of his posts don't look forced or deceptive. I don't trust tonal reads as much as I do more concrete things, but I believe they are a helpful tool, and in this case I sort of confirmed my belief that Xata is unlikely to be mafia this game.

So yeah, I don't see myself supporting a lynch against him today.

That's cool and all. But Xatalos wasn't really a lynch target anyways. Don't get me wrong - every read you give will be appreciated but reads on actual lynch candidates are more important. Like SL or Breshke for example.


I understand why you feel this way. But I think it's much more constructive for me to simply progress through the game taking whichever direction I feel like taking, instead of forcing myself to read things I do not believe I'm ready to tackle yet. If nothing else, this townread on Xata, despite not being a lynch candidate, helps people understand my motives. In addition should I not reach any kind of a strong conclusion about someone's alignment being mafia today, I might default back to simply voting alongside the people I think are town, and now that I've explained in short why I trust Xata, I might choose to vote with him.

But we're far away from that part of the day and I have more things I want to read and share before the day is over.


Oh, a potential sheep acquired?

Seriously though I don't dislike the back-and-forth thought process there. I often have the same fault of being a bit *too* (?) transparent. It may be confusing at times but it's also extremely risky to do as scum (more chances of contradictions etc.) so it's a townie leaning thing IMO.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 27 2015 11:06 GMT
#825
sicklucker... I have do admit I laughed at the "weak pussy plays" argument. It really was a weak backtrack though. Suddenly it was just some pressure to get marv playing or something? Quite possible it could be to save himself from the consequences of his failed push instead.

And if he did something similar as scum before too... Then again, that would almost seem like digging his own grave...
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 27 2015 11:09 GMT
#826
And the inconsistent push too...

I guess I wouldn't mind lynching him.

So basically sand/SL/LS in consideration atm
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 27 2015 11:15 GMT
#827
On April 27 2015 19:53 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 19:41 Xatalos wrote:
Hmm... There could be something to LS. It's true that he ignored my counter to the Breshke TMI thing and voted him anyway. His added reason of Breshke being "meh" is pretty "meh" a reason to vote in itself.


he doesn't really revisit it or tell anyone to look into me when he is interacting with people later on which from what I remember is normally what LS does. To me it feels like he isn't trying to draw attention to it because he isnt confident he can push the read even though his posts directly about it seem to say otherwise.

Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 07:49 LightningStrike wrote:
On April 27 2015 07:47 Fecalfeast wrote:
On April 27 2015 07:44 LightningStrike wrote:
Okay I here + Show Spoiler +
Dig won 3-2 vs Fusion and retains their NA LCS spot :O
I still not liking Breshke and Inspector Javert but I think Breshke is more likely scum than Inspector Javert since Breshke posts were pretty meh even on his large post it was very meh stuff.
##Vote: Breshke

OK so you say breshke is more likely scum than IJ but why is he more likely scum than anyone else in the game? Do you have no comment on anything anyone else has said?

I was agreeing alot with JAT post on Breshke and Breshke's large post wasn't good it was just a whole bunch of nothing when I had read it.



He also seems to dodge FF's question here could be unintentional


His main contributions seem to be a listpost and a weak push with no real involvement... So it's not too good.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
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