EPT3 games past experience: Student Mafia IV, Carol of the Bells Mafia, Newbie Mini Mafia LX
Student Mafia V
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Trfel
7015 Posts
3 games past experience: Student Mafia IV, Carol of the Bells Mafia, Newbie Mini Mafia LX | ||
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Trfel
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Trfel
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Trfel
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 17 2015 07:00 Trfel wrote: ##Vote geript I come out guns blazing, with fireworks and cannon fire, and meet silence...... Guess maybe I'll go do something else and wait for you guys to catch up XD | ||
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Trfel
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Trfel
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Trfel
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LightningStrike's play does seem rather weird so far. First he says that my early vote is scummy, and then says that it is towny. Regardless of whether my early vote was a good or bad play, LightningStrike's view changed on it after DarthPunk and LoneMeow expressed opinions that it was a slightly townie thing to do. And then, asking for rsoultin makes no sense at all. Why rsoultin? If it's to make a meta read, how about all of the rest of us he has played with before? GlowingBear's opening seems pretty bad as well. In general I don't like claiming, since I feel that town players should simply play well to show that they are town (just like how I don't put very much focus on setups). Claim aside, why would he even sign up for the game if he doesn't want to play VT, the most common role? VT is the core of the game, the power roles are the fluff (especially in games like this one with only two power roles). Side note, I've been cop/tracker twice out of three previous games, and it hasn't been particularly enjoyable for me. VT is a much more enjoyable role IMO, less pressure and you can more freely speak your mind. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 17 2015 10:20 rsoultin wrote: ##vote Tfel You're new but not bad. Not to mention I think you effectively posted with about that much (or less) in Carol and got us our first scum lynch. BS meter going off.  I ended Carol of the Bells with a 3 page filter, 53 posts (plus or minus one, I lost count.. not going back to check since the exact number is irrelevant). Seeing as I skipped nearly all of Day 1 and Night 1, those posts came almost entirely from Day 2 and Night 2. Probably 45 of my posts at least were in that time period, which is three times as many as geript is suggesting. And of all people, I thought you knew how to spell my name? XD | ||
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Trfel
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LightningStrike, you played in Carol of the Bells. So did LoneMeow. Any thoughts on him? | ||
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Trfel
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On January 17 2015 10:48 rsoultin wrote: Lolol, oops. Well, explain then. -cracks whip- Seriously, you've dodged twice now. First quibbling over how many posts you posted in Carol on Day 2, then commenting that I didn't read the OP. (Which is true >> probably should go do that now.) I explained it already. I feel that geript is purposefully handicapping himself. Yes, his decision to use 10 posts per day was made before the game began, therefore before he knew his alignment. That doesn't matter though, since if he really is going to handicap himself, he deserves to get lynched for it. If he either stops using this self-imposed restriction or proves that he can play successfully using it, great for him. I generally try to be careful with calling people scum, that is true. But voting someone and calling them scum are very different things. Votes can be done in jest or for a wide variety of reasons, surely I don't need to provide examples for you. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
No lynch on Day 1 is bad because it usually leaves you in an almost equally uninformed position on Day 2. Eventually you have to make that first lynch. Yes, town is often lynched on Day 1, but you can still lynch scum on Day 1 with effective play (and a bit of luck). I will keep my vote on geript until I feel that it is better for me to move it. It is really silly to ask me for rules for what I will do with my vote, since it's my own judgement and there is absolutely no reason for me to try and set rules for every possible scenario. | ||
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WE WILL LYNCH ON DAY 1 | ||
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Trfel
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On January 17 2015 11:57 rsoultin wrote: Mhm. The question was not what your rules are. The question was do you intend to scumhunt at all? Why is it so difficult for you to answer a simple question? Will you or will you not adhere to policy voting over scumread voting? Since you can't possibly be scumreading geript off of no posting (and have admitted to such) I feel that it's a valid question. I don't understand where you are coming from. Of course I intend to scumhunt. Why do you ask a question which has only one answer? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 17 2015 11:56 Damdred wrote: Ls might be scum gotta look on him, him asking for a meta read on me is strange I think if I'm understanding it since we've played a good 3-5 games together I think. We will be lynching day one and might be jarjar today I reread LightningStrike's filter, and I don't see where it says that he is asking for a meta read on you? The only mention of you that I saw is him saying that he didn't yet have a meta read on you based on your (at the time) one post in this game. I need to head out for a bit, I will try to be back on later. If anyone has questions for me, please feel free to ask. | ||
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Trfel
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That said, rsoultin's questioning does fit with her town meta. For an example of this, see the opening of the most recent Newbie Mafia. LightningStrike, why do you townread GlowingBear for that opening? Yes, it is true that there is no motivation for scum to claim VT right at the start of the game with no pressure. But there is also no motivation for town to claim VT right at the start of the game with no pressure. | ||
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Trfel
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On January 17 2015 13:12 rsoultin wrote: Again, you are nitpicking instead of addressing the point of my questions: namely, now that you've gotten discussion started, how serious really are you about that vote? Not at all. To be honest, I expect that geript will be just fine with only 10 posts. His analytical skills won't be hampered at all, he only loses most of his ability to question people and it will be difficult for him to push a lynch. Assuming that others do those two things for him, he should be just fine. ##Unvote Now that I have clarified this, I would really like to hear your thoughts on what other people have said so far. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
You read jarjarbinks D1 from the previous game (Newbie Mafia). You know that his play was miserable on D1 there as well, and he was town (his play was considerably better after D1). Someone is going to have to teach him how to play D1 (looking at you rsoultin), but I don't think I can see myself lynching him for inactivity, even if he provided a terrible excuse for it. What is so horrible about this post? I mean, it is surprising that LightningStrike didn't know what rsoultin meant by BS meter, but I don't understand why that makes it a horrible post. Are you saying that LightningStrike is scum because of this, or just that the post is bad? I also noticed that you said that one of my posts was bad, and then one of my paragraphs was bad and full of fluff. Then you townread me. What is the reasoning behind this read? That I attempted to follow your advice for promoting discussion? (for the record, I fully realize that your entrance post is intended to do the exact same thing, and I tried to make a point of it, but no one else responded, so..) Also, why the emphasis on Damdred? + Show Spoiler [For GlowingBear] + For obvious reasons we can't discuss the effectiveness of my attempts to promote discussion now, but hopefully you can help me with this after the game? | ||
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Trfel
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On January 18 2015 05:37 rsoultin wrote: Nah, not concerned about that. As you said, too many explanations for it to be significant. Check Trfel's filter on the player list. (Preemptively I will say that yes, I realize there is more than one way to access a filter and I am not calling you scum for this, thus the word: interesting.) Oh huh, I had no idea my filter was wrong. That's strange. I am back, sorry for being gone for so long. I am currently working on a post, it might take some time to finish though. After I get it finished I will answer any questions. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
LoneMeow seems very strange to me. At first I liked his questioning, and I still do, but all he has done is pick on people for small things. The one read he provided was at the request of GlowingBear. I know that LoneMeow is a very good player, and provides a lot of content without using a large number of posts, so I will wait for now.... but I am a bit suspicious. I generally like the way that Damdred and GlowingBear have been playing so far. Their analysis shows that they are reading the thread and trying to scumhunt, as well as generating discussion. I did notice that GlowingBear provided a lot of comments on posts in the thread, and I liked those. However, he also provided overall reads, but didn't show why he made those reads (they also didn't necessarily align with the comments he provided). The recent vote on Breshke is a continuation of this. However, I'm sure either of them could play a very capable scum game as well. Not a good Day 1 lynch. DarthPunk is coming up null. I have been waiting for more posts from him to provide more thoughts, but since he hasn't posted in a while, I will share my thoughts now. I do like that he picked up on LightingStrike's weird play at the start of the game. That was the same feeling that I got. However, he hasn't done very much at all except for saying that my opening made it seem that I am town. My opening doesn't really say anything about my alignment for reasons previously stated by geript, however the way I followed it up is more important (more on this later). For the record, several of you seem to be familiar with DarthPunk's playstyle, and I am completely unfamiliar with it, so that doesn't help. Geript's first post seemed a bit towny, and his second post seemed a bit scummy (it seemed like a poor use of a post when you are limiting yourself to ten). That's one fewer post to use to push a lynch later. Overall, geript seems fine for now, and is probably a poor Day 1 lynch. Rsoultin and jarjar, you two need to talk so that jarjar feels comfortable with Day 1. That aside, while jarjar's opening post is pretty horrible, he has given some useful thoughts since then. As for rsoultin, I feel that her play lines up exactly with (my knowledge of) her town meta. I also liked the questioning that she used with regards to my opening. Still, I take note that jarjar said that she is capable of doing this as either alignment. One thing I did find really strange is that rsoultin provided her thoughts using a Damdred quote. I have no idea why she would do this except to compare opinions, but she didn't provide any thoughts on Damdred (I know their thoughts on other players were side by side, but still), and it gave the impression that her reads were less independent. I do need to clarify that based on how last game (Newbie Mafia) went and my postgame discussions with GlowingBear, I have been trying a slightly different playstyle this game. My opening attempted to generate discussion, and a relatively large number of posts were made about it (the quality of the discussion it generated is more questionable, so perhaps it didn't work out as I intended). The reason I pushed that (false) viewpoint was because I wanted to get as much discussion from it as possible, which I believe I did. As for providing less content per post than in previous games, this is a conscious change I made after seeing how last game went. Brief summary of my play in last game: there wasn't much discussion on the first day, and I was busy, so I didn't share many thoughts or put in the effort that I wanted, and then I died. My death provided absolutely nothing for town to work with, since I hadn't shared any thoughts as they were not anywhere near conclusive. This game I am trying to share my thoughts more frequently to prevent something like that from happening again. The downside is that my posts will not contain as much quality content as I would like, but I believe that I have provided enough content. Everything I say is there for a reason (in the case of the coolTLname paragraph, the reason is because I don't want to delete it; not always the best reason, but whatever). With that in mind, I will answer geript's question. On January 17 2015 16:37 geript wrote: 3. @Trfel. Which, if any, of my reads do you disagree with and why? Additionally, are there any players or points that you think I've noticeably missed in my analysis? I (obviously) disagree with your read on me. I was intentionally being stubborn to argue with rsoultin and generate discussion, which (as I already stated) I think I was somewhat successful in. I was not so sure about your townread on LightningStrike at the time you made the post in question, but given some rereading and his posting since then, it seems reasonable. Rsoultin's play does seem towny so far, but he hasn't done anything that I couldn't see him doing as scum. I don't think that jarjar is a good lynch, however the reasons for that are mostly due to posts he made after you posted the read. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 18 2015 06:31 Damdred wrote: Trfel, that's a whole lot of words for saying you have a couple of town reads rest null reads but you don't seem to have any scum reads? unless I overlooked it. Are you scum with no scum reads and not knowing how to go about it? Sorry, you're right, that wasn't clear enough. I try to play with really high standards for scumreading someone. I stated this in my last game if you need me to dig up that quote. I am most suspicious of LoneMeow and a bit suspicious of DarthPunk. At the moment, my lynch list would probably be LoneMeow, then The Shining, then Breshke, then DarthPunk. However, I'm not going to worry about (potentially) policy lynching until the deadline is much closer. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 18 2015 06:39 Damdred wrote: So basically if LM comes back and does stuff you might rescend that scum read/suspicion. And then when we drop to your next uspicion it isn't even the person you then pointed to (dp) it is instead two lurkers? Also sure that's true about that previous post...but what about how you came flying out of the blue in the last student tmafia against bats with a huge case, even in the past newbie game you were halfway inactive and you still had pretty strong scum reads 24-36 hours into the game? Um.... I had absolutely no scumreads in the newbie game. Having both of my scumreads be wrong in Student Mafia IV caused me to re-evaluate the amount of evidence I need to scumread someone. Since then, I've never been wrong (1/1). However, the downside is that I don't come up with a confident scumread every day, as demonstrated by Newbie Mafia. That doesn't mean I won't try for the best lynch, but just that I am not 100% confident in it. So no, about halfway through Day 1 I do not have any confident scumreads. | ||
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Trfel
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On January 18 2015 07:27 GlowingBear wrote: War Waffle probably town Why do you say this? | ||
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On January 18 2015 07:53 GlowingBear wrote: He is going against two vocal players, which is kinda a suicidal move for mafia to do. The only motive he has to do this is if his partners are in danger and he wants to push a mislynch. Which I doubt is the case. I suppose I can see this. At the same time, WarWaffle seemed to provide many more reads in the previous game. I know this game hasn't been going for as long yet, but there has been more posting here. And last game he had lots of time issues as well (I know he said he had some in this game, I think, but they should be less than last game). | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 18 2015 08:28 rsoultin wrote: I am trying very hard to find reasons to town-read you this game, Trfel. This is simply untrue. :/ WW analyzed HTS' post and gave a list post on his reads Day 1 last game. It seems about the same to me, except WW actually questioned someone this game (LS). Considering there are still 24ish hours left for Day 1...dude, give me a reason to town-read you, please >< + Show Spoiler + On January 07 2015 04:51 TheWarWaffle wrote: My apologies for the inactivity. I give no excuse other than the fact that my life is busy. After reading the thread my current reads for the game are as follows: The Shining: Town The Shining has not posted all that much but the quality of posting changed drastically as soon as the game started. The Shining asks questions where they need to be asked and maintains a cordial aloofness towards everyone who is playing. No person is accused of anything without evidence. Half the Sky: Town HTS acts like a true townie. Says what she wants, when she wants to, to whomever she wants. At least, that's what she wants us to believe, but I don't have anything better at this time. rsoultin: Suspicious The accusation-train keeps on rolling whenever rsoultin is around. I find the similarities in play style to her previous games an indicator of deceit rather than openness. Rsoultin rolled Town in every other game she played like this, so why shouldn't she be Town now? I can't think of a better cover than this. Strangely, even though rsoultin admits that it's her "bias" to ignore inactives, she votes for me. This is strange for several reasons: I was inactive at the time she started my lynch wagon; she had previously agreed with my post on HTS; and there was no progression of thought as to why I was scum. jarjarbinks: Light Town Jarjarbinks' behavior sets off no alarm bells in my mind even though he lurks more than he posts. The posts he does make are normally short and succinct, and while many of his posts appear misleading at first, they work in the context. I think the only reason he is voting for me is because other people started the wagon. Trfel: Unknown As Trfel has posted effectively nothing indicating any affiliation, I must refrain from passing judgment on the hangman. Gumdrop: Town Gumdrop hasn't said much but from what was said I glean bits of Town. The reasons given for not posting more are adequate, and the type of posts implies a desire for something to happen, something the Mafia does not want. The posts that were made are logical and forward-thinking. A more Mafia-oriented lurker would post more misleading information. Silverarte: Possible Mafia The ease of which Silverarte hops aboard the bandwagon train is startling. Silverarte was leaning towards ExO_ and Gumdrop being scum, for the reasons of aggressive accusations and "posting and offering nothing" respectively. Somehow, both of these are forgotten as soon as she jumped on my vote bandwagon. For someone who admits she's new and even goes as far to use that as defense for gumdrop her voting for me makes no sense based on her previous actions. The previous existing relationship between Silverarte and rsoultin gives cause for the sudden change of thought, but even so... ExO_: Light Town My thoughts on ExO_ have flipped back and forth for some time now. Initially I thought he was town for being the only one willing to aggressively step and take affirmative action. After that, I thought he was scum for simply spreading accusations thin and putting a cloud of doubt over everyone, which is scum-like behavior. Though his disappearance is suspicious, it does not seem implicative. -Celestial-: Town -Celestial- maintains a consistent level of posts and explains his thoughts in a logical progression. I see no suspicious behavior, only a desire to understand and unearth new information. LightningStrike: Suspicious/Unknown I have my own reasons for being suspicious of LS, mainly due to the constant attempts to shift attention whenever the focus is on him. Tubesock: Mafia After looking at all of Tubesock's posts, I strongly believe that he is Mafia. His posts, while numerous, are short and always seem to detract from the conversation rather than add. Very few of the accusations presented by Tubesock are his; most are other people's regurgitated ideas. I think Tubesock's passive beginning was only due to the low amount of traffic it received, and that his "coming out of his shell" was him realizing that he could take advantage of it. Several times he has posted about the inactivity of the thread, which seems redundant when your very post makes it active. Tubesock only did this to make it look like he cares. A Mafia player wants there to be confusion, chaos, and distrust in the thread. Do Tubesock's actions create clear, organized discussion? I don't think so. Currently, Tubesock has my vote. I'd like to hear other people's opinions as well. To me, that post seems much more comprehensive than the post in this game. I don't see your point. I could also understand where TheWarWaffle was coming from in that post, even though I disagreed with his reads. In this game, his logic doesn't make sense. He says that because GlowingBear and I did something towny, we have to be scum. Both GlowingBear and I have also asked questions and contributed to discussion (however effectively), so that is the other criteria he set for his townreads. Ignoring the early questioning, TheWarWaffle's play seems noticeably worse. It actually makes me tempted to lynch him, though as GlowingBear stated, coming in with two scumreads on reasonably active players doesn't make sense for mafia. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 18 2015 08:50 rsoultin wrote: He did go into an explanation for each and every player, it's true, but if you recall that was not terribly long before EoD and he was scumread by a lot of people for it because his reads were pretty wonky to most of us. You may not agree with GB that the post itself makes him town, but why are you trying to convince people that WW is scum? Are you scumreading him right now? While I don't agree with him on GB necessarily (I think GB has been doing a good job of analyzing this game) I can see where he's coming from just fine on the whole do something scum wouldn't do as scum to get townread. In fact, that should always be the objective of scum, shouldn't it? To not act like scum so they don't get caught? When I'm saying I'm scumreading someone, I'm pretty serious about it. I'm not scumreading him, but I do think his play is suspicious. Are you saying that his reads aren't wonky in this game, since I think they are (for previously stated reasons). I was able to understand his reads in the previous game. Of course scum wants to try and get townread. But doing a townie thing doesn't make someone scum. At worst, it makes them null. Except in extreme circumstances, of course. GlowingBear, how does Hapahauli coaching have any effect on your actions/reads? | ||
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I'll be out for a while, but then I will be back and hopefully have something to discuss. Again, feel free to ask any questions. | ||
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On January 18 2015 09:17 DarthPunk wrote: Look at the formatting. One is literally a wall the other is formatted well and divided into easily readable chunks. I also respect Geripts opinion ( horrifying I know) and give zero fucks about trifles opinion. That is the only difference really. Perhaps you didn't see these fancy things called lines which divide my post into three separate chunks with separate goals? I believe that makes it literally divided. On January 18 2015 09:40 DarthPunk wrote: I give zero fucks to his OPINION not what he types. I care to the extent that i need to determine his alignment. But I am not gonna sheep him or anything. That goes equally for basically everyone in this game not called geript. And this basically makes no sense. Of course you shouldn't sheep me, I really don't like it when people sheep others. That said, it's stupid to say that you can't gain anything from everyone else here. Even the worst player here can still say things that are useful to the best player here. I'm not going to pretend that I am amazing at this game, far from it (thank you LightningStrike, but there are many, many better case builders than me), there are some very capable players in this game in addition to geript. Are you saying that you aren't going to evaluate the claims of people other than geript for validity, or just that you are going to make your decisions for yourself? Or what do you even mean by this, because what I think you are saying doesn't make any sense? The Shining has a pretty good post for an entrance this late in the game. However, I don't think that the point on jarjarbinks is in fact a scumslip. Reading what jarjar initially said, it simply seems to be an error. I still feel that his posts since then have been much more reasonable than the no lynch request. rsoultin, I'm not scumreading TheWarWaffle. I'm saying that his play seems different this game from last game, and that it is suspicious. He responded with an adequate explanation (I don't have a phone, so I forgot that phone posting is something that a lot of people do). So I will wait and see what happens, though I still question the quality of his reasoning. | ||
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Trfel
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On January 18 2015 10:38 rsoultin wrote: Fair enough, Trfel. I agree that his explanation for you and GB as scum, by itself, doesn't seem strong enough for a scumread. Maybe when he fully explains himself it will be easier to follow. That's a good point. Still, when I made the initial statement, he hadn't said that he would make a more complete version of the post later. The way I read his post, that was the fully explained version. Which has me and GlowingBear (well, I'm obviously biased, so you can argue about me but definitely not GlowingBear) being scumread while doing the exact same things that he says the people he townreads are town for. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 18 2015 15:14 rsoultin wrote: I did in fact get something out of my questions to Trfel. Please note the progression here. Note the time. Less than a full minute after game start. Best I can tell without him quoting the post he was responding to himself, this was a result of LS' question. Note the bolded reason: policy lynch dependent on Geript being "useful". Note the bolded portion again. It went from when Geript is "useful" to when he feels like it...after I asked him whether or not he planned to lynch a policy lynch over a scumread. Huh? What was the purpose of the policy lynch then? Geript had yet to post in the thread at the time of Trfel's unvote. Parsed this down out of his giant reads post. I will address his reads themselves in a moment. So now it's to generate discussion. Okay, so his reasons went from: Policy Lynch (Geript can't possibly be effective with such few posts) to he'll change it when he feels like it, to nevermind he thinks Geript will be fine (before Geript has posted once), to nope, just to generate discussion. <- Interesting that this is after GB already tried to explain Trfel's behavior. Was GB just right, or was this a convenient excuse that Tfel could now use to explain it away? Even if you think, as some of you do, that all of this wasn't strange and even thought it made Trfel town (still mind-boggling to me), I laid off him some to see if he came up with anything but a weird-ass Trfel's Reads + Show Spoiler + On January 17 2015 10:17 Trfel wrote: I'm back. LightningStrike's play does seem rather weird so far. First he says that my early vote is scummy, and then says that it is towny. Regardless of whether my early vote was a good or bad play, LightningStrike's view changed on it after DarthPunk and LoneMeow expressed opinions that it was a slightly townie thing to do. And then, asking for rsoultin makes no sense at all. Why rsoultin? If it's to make a meta read, how about all of the rest of us he has played with before? GlowingBear's opening seems pretty bad as well. In general I don't like claiming, since I feel that town players should simply play well to show that they are town (just like how I don't put very much focus on setups). Claim aside, why would he even sign up for the game if he doesn't want to play VT, the most common role? VT is the core of the game, the power roles are the fluff (especially in games like this one with only two power roles). Side note, I've been cop/tracker twice out of three previous games, and it hasn't been particularly enjoyable for me. VT is a much more enjoyable role IMO, less pressure and you can more freely speak your mind. - LS "weird" for changing viewpoint based on vet opinions. Really? - GBs opening claim. I think someone already mentioned that if they're supposedly doing the same thing, this is an odd read. + Show Spoiler + On January 18 2015 06:25 Trfel wrote: The way that LightningStrike played the start of this game still feels really weird to me. His thoughts seemed to be all over the place and his posting was somewhat random (particularly asking for rsoultin). However, since then he seems to have gained confidence and seems more towny. Especially after glancing through the scumgame he linked (yes I'm aware I played in that game, I wanted to look at it again anyway). Weird-more, towny...null? LoneMeow seems very strange to me. At first I liked his questioning, and I still do, but all he has done is pick on people for small things. The one read he provided was at the request of GlowingBear. I know that LoneMeow is a very good player, and provides a lot of content without using a large number of posts, so I will wait for now.... but I am a bit suspicious. Liked questioning, suspicious...null? No reason to include this except to say HEY LOOK I TOWNREAD A TOWN!! I generally like the way that Damdred and GlowingBear have been playing so far. Their analysis shows that they are reading the thread and trying to scumhunt, as well as generating discussion. I did notice that GlowingBear provided a lot of comments on posts in the thread, and I liked those. However, he also provided overall reads, but didn't show why he made those reads (they also didn't necessarily align with the comments he provided). The recent vote on Breshke is a continuation of this. However, I'm sure either of them could play a very capable scum game as well. Not a good Day 1 lynch. What? Between suddenly townreading(ish?) GB after suggesting he was scum earlier, all the back and forth, and the fact he never actually mentions Damdred individually...I feel like I got nothing from Trfel out of this paragraph. DarthPunk is coming up null. I have been waiting for more posts from him to provide more thoughts, but since he hasn't posted in a while, I will share my thoughts now. I do like that he picked up on LightingStrike's weird play at the start of the game. That was the same feeling that I got. However, he hasn't done very much at all except for saying that my opening made it seem that I am town. My opening doesn't really say anything about my alignment for reasons previously stated by geript, however the way I followed it up is more important (more on this later). For the record, several of you seem to be familiar with DarthPunk's playstyle, and I am completely unfamiliar with it, so that doesn't help. Lot of words to describe yet another null read. Geript's first post seemed a bit towny, and his second post seemed a bit scummy (it seemed like a poor use of a post when you are limiting yourself to ten). That's one fewer post to use to push a lynch later. Overall, geript seems fine for now, and is probably a poor Day 1 lynch. Towny, scummy. Null again?! Rsoultin and jarjar, you two need to talk so that jarjar feels comfortable with Day 1. That aside, while jarjar's opening post is pretty horrible, he has given some useful thoughts since then. As for rsoultin, I feel that her play lines up exactly with (my knowledge of) her town meta. I also liked the questioning that she used with regards to my opening. Still, I take note that jarjar said that she is capable of doing this as either alignment. One thing I did find really strange is that rsoultin provided her thoughts using a Damdred quote. I have no idea why she would do this except to compare opinions, but she didn't provide any thoughts on Damdred (I know their thoughts on other players were side by side, but still), and it gave the impression that her reads were less independent. JarJar horrible opening->useful thoughts; Me: Town meta (no one knows how I play scum but Shining and Dammy, lol) -> reads less independent...so...null reads again. I do need to clarify that based on how last game (Newbie Mafia) went and my postgame discussions with GlowingBear, I have been trying a slightly different playstyle this game. My opening attempted to generate discussion, and a relatively large number of posts were made about it (the quality of the discussion it generated is more questionable, so perhaps it didn't work out as I intended). The reason I pushed that (false) viewpoint was because I wanted to get as much discussion from it as possible, which I believe I did. As for providing less content per post than in previous games, this is a conscious change I made after seeing how last game went. Brief summary of my play in last game: there wasn't much discussion on the first day, and I was busy, so I didn't share many thoughts or put in the effort that I wanted, and then I died. My death provided absolutely nothing for town to work with, since I hadn't shared any thoughts as they were not anywhere near conclusive. This game I am trying to share my thoughts more frequently to prevent something like that from happening again. The downside is that my posts will not contain as much quality content as I would like, but I believe that I have provided enough content. Everything I say is there for a reason (in the case of the coolTLname paragraph, the reason is because I don't want to delete it; not always the best reason, but whatever). This to me is just icky. Huge explanation at the end of his reads as to why he's been sucking this game (sorry, Trfel, but I'm entitled to my own opinions and you've rocked other games) with a conclusion that as long as he's providing content the quality doesn't matter? At least, that's how I read the bolded section. With that in mind, I will answer geript's question. I (obviously) disagree with your read on me. I was intentionally being stubborn to argue with rsoultin and generate discussion, which (as I already stated) I think I was somewhat successful in. I was not so sure about your townread on LightningStrike at the time you made the post in question, but given some rereading and his posting since then, it seems reasonable. Rsoultin's play does seem towny so far, but he hasn't done anything that I couldn't see him doing as scum. I don't think that jarjar is a good lynch, however the reasons for that are mostly due to posts he made after you posted the read. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. And now, the giant novel of null. Seriously, there is pretty much nothing useful in this post. Open the spoiler and see my comments, but essentially he wrote paragraphs on half the players in this game just to call them null, then defended his lack of quality content. Also, if you can :/ LoneMeow and DarthPunk who were (apparent?) null reads, with Shining and Breshke (definite null reads for lack of activity)...so, really no scumreads. I'm having a hard time with this idea that Trfel has absolutely no strong town/scumreads at all this game. There's obviously more in his filter, to include WW and DP later in the game, and some questions. I'm not saying I'm 100% sure Trfel is scum. I do think that he is the most likely to flip scum of the players here, however. My reasons in a nutshell: - His reasons for his opening post kept changing. - No reads. What he does post is a lot of verbage to say he doesn't have an earthly clue and everyone is null. Blech. ##Vote: Trfel I already explained my responses to these points. I will state them again. Note that I need to leave for church in the near future, I will comment on the rest of the thread when I return. I already stated that my opening arguments were a falsified position with the intention of creating discussion. I held on to them for as long as practical. I don't understand why shifting my viewpoint from a policy lynch to "I will use my vote in the way that I feel it is most effective" is questionable. Wouldn't you ALWAYS want someone to use their best judgement with their vote? Whenever someone says that they will be doing something with their vote, it's assumed that they will change their vote if they see a reason to do so, which is basically what I said. My opening was not intended to policy lynch geript but to start discussion. Again, I think that it largely succeeded in that. Whether or not it did isn't really relevant to my alignment. LightningStrike's play was weird for other reasons. Read DarthPunk's comments on the start of the game. I don't see how you can possibly not call that weird. In particular, he's in the middle of the discussion, and then he suddenly asks for a female. Changing his viewpoint based on what more experienced players say is understandable, though it hints at a lack of conviction in his own opinion. As for not deleting that paragraph, I admitted there was no useful reason to keep it. But I wrote it. I didn't want to delete something that I wrote, especially since it ended up being very correct. I know it's silly. But it's not mafia. I don't generally make townreads, you should know that. At this moment I do not have strong scumreads, however I need to reread this entire game, and there has been a lot of new information since then. I wasn't calling players null, I was sharing my thoughts. I never called them reads. The reason for this is obvious: I didn't share my thoughts last game, and ended up being a terrible liability to town. I felt that I had enough thoughts that, while not being of much use on their own, could help provide some discussion. + Show Spoiler [meta] + I guess I need to say this after all. For those of you who dislike newbies using meta, you do not need to read this, however I do request that geript read this since he is (to some level) using meta against me. Remember, I come to TL Mafia without having played a game of mafia before, forums or in person or however. So I hd absolutely zero clue how anything worked. Before I started playing, I read all of the TL forum guides possible, including the TL XXX guide by Ver. This guide gave me the impression that all cases and reads were done using meta, and the best posts were really long meta posts (see the Foolishness post mentioned in that guide). You can see this being readily apparent in my case against batsnacks on Day 1. I made cases against batsnacks and Damdred in that game, in which I was 100% confident. Guess what, I was wrong on both. That shook my confidence a lot, and since then I decided that I needed to be better with my reads, hence drastically increasing the level of suspicion required to scumread someone*. Then I jumped into the Carol of the Bells game. Surely you remember how I basically sat out Day 1 and Night 1, spent most of Day 2 making excuses and whining that the thread was too long? Then I made a case on KelsierSC which was thrown together at the last second and primarily created to prevent me from dying. When I read it now, it actually looked pretty good (ironically the first half, for which I included the quotes to prove each point, was rather weak while the second half which was thrown together without supporting quotes at the last second was rather strong), at the time I didn't know if it was any good at all. I just posted it because I had tried to create cases on several people and none of them had felt strong enough, and I was at risk of being lynched if I didn't show something. It ended up being correct, but I still spent the majority of the game whining and complaining. Surely you don't call that amazing play. Then, see the Newbie Mafia game. I provided no reads, no useful thoughts, little to no discussion. The one thing I did right is that I correctly analyzed that none of the wagons were mafia, and that the mafia presence in the thread wasn't very high. I got shot on Night 1 for reputation, leaving town with next to zero information. The only good thing you can say about my play is that I realized that all of the Day 1 wagons were town. Geript later said that my play was good in that game for this insight, as well as seeming towny despite having poor posts. Realize that I provided no scumreads whatsoever in this game. So today, that leaves me with a reputation of being a good player (!) which resulted from making long posts and getting lucky once. Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out how to play the game, ie what level of suspicion I need to scumread someone, how fluid or static my reads should be, if/how I should incorporate townreads into my play, how claiming has any effect on anything whatsoever, voting analysis, etc. *I still dont' know what level of suspicion is required for a scumread. Since I increased the level I wanted, I have made one scumread. It was correct, but this playstyle doesn't seem to be working very well. In summary, I'm a noob for a reason. I'm still trying to figure out how to play this game. Please stop trying to hold me to glossy expectations based on the highlights of my play while ignoring the many, many shortcomings. I don't see how anyone can possibly disagree with this, but I can provide plenty of evidence if you think it is necessary. I really would rather not, though, since I have better things to do with my time, such as finding scum. | ||
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On January 18 2015 12:56 Breshke wrote: Trfel I find it weird that you take GB's oppening as a serious claim and not just "making waves" like he has taught you he likes to do. It is especially odd because your opening was to make waves as well but you didn't seem to understand that GB was probably doing the same thing. I already stated this. GlowingBear's opening was precisely the same thing, and I knew that. However, it was basically ignored, so I was trying to draw attention to it. In retrospect, that wasn't a good decision because it causes me to get scumread. As to why I didn't immediately say that my opening was to generate discussion when I unvoted, I thought it was obvious. Look at my second post (since the game started, of course). The tone is light and teasing, while commenting that there was no response to my opening. I thought that made my intentions pretty clear, while not preventing the opening from generating discussion. TheWarWaffle's "case" on me is pretty weak. The reason is because meta reads don't make someone scum (is LightningStrike scum for using meta?). Despite what geript said, meta does have a time and place, even for newbies. Note that it should always be used as a supplement to the current game, and used carefully. That said, if I didn't have knowledge of TheWarWaffle's play from last game, I would be pushing him very hard right now. The reason that I am not doing so is because his reads last game also contained many reasons that I disagreed with, and he was town then. Therefore I will leave TheWarWaffle as suspicious for previously mentioned reasons, but at this moment I don't want to hard push him. I could be convinced to lynch him, though. Breshke could be scum (low chance). However, he is very open about acknowledging his shortcomings in the game so far, and that comes off as towny to me. So I don't think I want to lynch him today. In general, I like the way that rsoultin has been interacting with me. The case isn't very good, but it shows effort and thinking, and I like that. However, she has been very focused on me, and that seems strange. Probably still town, but it is weird. I'm up for a LoneMeow lynch, his play seems generally poor this game. He isn't just a lurker, since at the start of the game he was reasonably active with questions and a response to the one question asked of him. Still, that one answer was the only piece of thought he provided for a very long time. And all of his other comments were picking on people, with no reads provided as a result. I like that he has come back to the thread, but with no explanation of the absence or his play, I'm inclined to think that he could be mafia. I reread his filter from the Carol of the Bells game, and the level of play there seemed to be much more analytical. I remember that he was townread by most people (ironically not the vigilante, who shot him, but nearly everyone else townread him). I'm on page 33, but with less than an hour left I feel like I should post this now. Vote: LoneMeow | ||
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I forgot, oops. ##Vote: LoneMeow | ||
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In particular, Damdred's recent opinion shifts have seemed a bit off, as well as GlowingBear's read on Damdred (I don't know meta on either of them, but from a newbie perspective, it seemed like a very strange case). | ||
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On January 19 2015 06:37 GlowingBear wrote: You can also suspect Trfel for this bullshit Don't worry, I have my reasons coming. Still though, the point of what I said is that jarjarbinks is a TERRIBLE lynch. Please. He will most likely flip town. Read the last game. Read what rsoultin said. I have never been in a game with a Day 1 scum lynch, I don't want to fail in this one as well. Jarjarbinks is thinking about the game and posting, and for now that is enough to get a pass from me for Day 1. Not on Day 2, but given the general opinions he has shared with regards to Day 1, this is far better than I expected. | ||
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On January 19 2015 06:41 Breshke wrote: So trfel why do you think LM will flip scum? Havnt people said he is always like thi aswell? But I disagree. I was in Carol of the Bells with him. That said, I seem to be the only person who disagrees. If he isn't lynched today I want to see him step up his play tomorrow, but I will reconsider my lynch for today. | ||
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Earlier in the game I brought up the disconnect between GlowingBear's thread comments and his reads. I asked several questions to him, and he answered all of them except for that one. It seems like he is trying to make it look like he is reading the thread and making reads, but the two aren't related together. I do like his post analysis, and I didn't mind his early reads, but the lack of unity was strange. The post about coming after lurkers seems bad, and I don't see him doing much about lurkers at all. In fact, his reads have been all over the place. I wouldn't say that he has been really coming after anyone, but dropping his reads and making new reads. His push on geript strikes me as particularly strange. At this point, geript is coming across as pretty strongly town, so that makes no sense at all. He's basically scummed everyone at some point this game. Like I said, his case on Damdred makes absolutely no sense. Especially when he retracted it and emphatically stated that Damdred is town for little apparent reason. GlowingBear has also been using a crazy amount of OMGUS this game. I don't like it at all. ##Unvote ##Vote: GlowingBear | ||
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On January 19 2015 06:47 GlowingBear wrote: Lynch Trfel too. Geript can be town. Gg So at this point you basically want everyone lynched? I just don't see how you can be town. In Carol, you spent a lot of time on Holyflare and you stuck with it. Here, you are scumreading everyone and changing without reason. | ||
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On January 19 2015 06:50 rsoultin wrote: i'm not switching to a townread. i'm not certain on GB but it wouldn't surprise me if he is town -shrugs- I'm not certain that GlowingBear is town either. Not up to the level that I would like to be. But I think he is the best lynch, especially since LoneMeow came back again. GlowingBear's play has been completely different and he has seemed largely ineffective at pushing anything, despite having maybe the largest filter in the game and being very active. GlowingBear is definitely more capable of pushing his scumreads than this. | ||
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##Vote: TheWarWaffle | ||
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On January 19 2015 07:16 GlowingBear wrote: This is the one of the biggest proofs why Trfel is scum. He didn't want to lynch Jar jar for being newbie but he was okay to lynch waffle who was also mislynched day1 in his previous game. You could never accept lynching war waffle. I already explained why I wanted to lynch TheWarWaffle. I couldn't understand how he got his reads, his logic seemed terrible. I did not blame it on him being a newbie because last game I could follow his logic, and he showed some good thinking and more effort than this game. Meanwhile, jarjarbinks showed the exact opposite. He played much better on D1 this game than last game. Along with input from rsoultin, he looked like a poor lynch. | ||
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On January 19 2015 07:21 GlowingBear wrote: This case on me is also convoluted and his vote on me only got traction when I was about to be mislynched. His vote was BEFORE this case and a lot of things doesn't make me mafia. Specially the OMGUS part. OMGUS is more likely to be town paranoia than mafia behaviour. But the thing is: I was COMPLETELY tunnelled on Holyflare in Christmas Carol and I was town, and Trfel was there. This guy is definetely mafia. Wait, how is my vote BEFORE the case? My vote is RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE CASE YOU QUOTED. Yes, in Carol of the Bells you were completely tunneled on Holyflare. Here, you are flying all over the place and scumreading everyone. In Carol of the Bells, you nearly got Holyflare lynched, so I'd say that was pretty effective. Here, you had basically no following on your reads. I need to take a break, but you still look like scum to me. | ||
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Sorry, I didn't realize that I would be so busy. This lynch wagon is completely ridiculous. I can't believe that everyone is voting to lynch me. Just because I am trying to change my play and figure out how the game works? That doesn't make any sense at all. I care enough to try different things and see what works. Evidently this didn't work. You guys are seriously believing the guy who claimed cop? First of all, he started the game completely nonsensical, and somehow got townread, and then changed his behavior completely. Why would town do anything different after they get townread? I can't decide if he is simply a town liar or if he is a mafia trying to get a townie lynched, but I'm inclined to think the latter. If you don't listen to me know, hopefully you will at least lynch him next after I flip. A one to one change with a mafia is a pretty good result for a townie. I'll look into some other scum options, but this wagon on me is really giving a lot away. I'm pretty sure that the mafia team is leading it. | ||
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On January 21 2015 13:03 Damdred wrote: Trfel if you are really town and LS is mafia which is highly doubtful. You should leave us with some form of last will or do something towny which you aren't doing. I have so much homework... I would love to.... First is lynch LightningStrike. After that I'm not really sure. I'd have to take a look at who started leading my lynch and why. DarthPunk jumped on my wagon pretty quickly, as did Breshke. But DarthPunk defended me earlier, which I don't understand when he is willing to lynch me now. As for lurkers, LoneMeow and The Shining are probably the biggest options. I am still scumreading LoneMeow pretty heavily. His inactivity is really scummy, and I posted my case earlier. Sneaking under the lynch didn't help. The Shining, on the other hand, seems rather towny. He hasn't posted that much, but I do like the analysis that he has provided, and I can forgive the lack of activity. Hopefully I can be on more tomorrow and help share the lynch list. I suppose it's probably too much to ask to spare myself from being lynched, but I hope that you guys can still manage to win the game, with LYLO coming up soon. Would it help to save myself if I claimed? | ||
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##Vote: LightningStrike | ||
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I'd rather wait to see if it is really necessary. | ||
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On January 21 2015 13:36 Damdred wrote: You can't, someone has claimed a red check on you. We are killing you off unless you claim come up with an amazing defense. Did I not already demonstrate how LightningStrike is scum? I thought it was rather conclusive. I know that I am town. He says that I am scum. There are a few options. 1. I got sent the wrong PM 2. There is actually an unaware miller in this game 3. LightningStrike is the worst town player of all time 4. LightningStrike is a mafia who lied to get a threat lynched BlazingHand is a good host, so the first two options are unlikely. LightningStrike may well be the worst town player of all time, however my play this game is showing that I am even worse, since he seems to be getting me lynched, therefore this is not possible. (To make everything clear I am kidding, LightningStrike is cool, but my point stands). Therefore the only logical option is that LightningStrike is a mafia who false claimed. The reason for this is having both roles claimed makes it even harder for the town to actually claim. Especially since he faked his check on me. Also, I was suspicious of him early on. I noticed the weirdness in his play. It's natural for him to try and get me out of the way quickly. | ||
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On January 21 2015 13:40 DarthPunk wrote: Even if by some miracle Trfel is town. Then we just lynch LS tomorrow. I think it is correct to lynch trefle no matter what his defense is like. With a defense like this, you can't possibly lynch me. | ||
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On January 21 2015 13:47 rsoultin wrote: Agreed. I'm not sure what this is from him, anyway. Trfel, if I were you and town I'd get out my case-making mojo, comb the thread and the filters, and give us something awesome to work with if you flip town. LS is a given with a green (or blue) flip. Why should I bother if you guys are just going to lynch me anyway? I have other things to do, you guys won't listen to my logic. The game is lost, I should give it up. If you guys don't lynch me maybe I will build some cases for you, since you seem to be too lazy to do it yourself. Rsoultin could very well be mafia as well. | ||
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Like you said, LoneMeow and I were looking like the top lynch candidates for the start of the day. So if LightningStrike actually WAS the cop, and actually DID check me, and it actually DID come up red (which is all false), him claiming makes no sense at all. He shouldn't need a claim to lynch me, just press the lynch through and live to fight another day. Save the claim for later, if it is necessary. Why would he possibly claim where he did? I'll tell you why, BECAUSE IT GETS ME LYNCHED. That's all he wants. Not townie at all. Meanwhile, I'm trying to preserve the blue roles for as long as possible. I advocated keeping jarjar alive, and guess what, he's basically confirmed town (no cc roleblock). Meanwhile everyone else wanted to lynch him, except rsoultin. I've been a town power role twice in the past. The first time I died on Night 1. The second time I afk'd for day 1 and night 1, and died on night 2 (one day of play). Do you think I learned something? I did better in the second game, but I still died way too early. I'm pretty sure I'm not getting nightkilled this game, but I didn't account for the fake cop check, so I could get lynched instead. I will work on finding the balance. | ||
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Please, take some time and think about this. I want to break marv's town non-lynched record. You guys aren't helping. Looking at LightningStrike, DarthPunk, LoneMeow, and rsoultin for the potential scum team. Pretty sure that three of them are scum. | ||
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Not sure how much I'll be online tomorrow, I'm pretty busy, but don't take my inactivity as admission of guilt. I know I'm right, and no amount of false claims can change that. I don't care if people from all other games come in here and claim a red check on me, I am still right. | ||
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On January 21 2015 22:53 LightningStrike wrote: HTS I only got 1 vote on me lol..... It's the thought that counts! | ||
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The last will and testament of Trfel Lynch LightningStrike Lynch LoneMeow Lynch DarthPunk Lynch rsoultin Any more questions? | ||
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100% carried. Thanks a bunch DarthPunk and The Shining, I tried my best, but ended up being only a hindrance. Well played to all. | ||
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On January 28 2015 07:43 LightningStrike wrote: Sorry for the bad Cop claim that was just entirely my fault but I can't believe you guys didn't get catch scum after I got us a scum  Any advice for Cop play because this was my 2nd time playing Cop and first time getting a red check too.I would give you advice, but I am possibly the worst cop/tracker player on TL. | ||
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