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On December 09 2014 22:42 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2014 22:23 Xatalos wrote:
Half the Sky: do you have other scumreads besides 27ninjabunnies? Yes, I do. My town reads seem very straightforward from everyone I've evaluated last night: Holyflare, Rasputin (rsoultin), Damdred, kitaman27 (who seems to be picking apart things as he should), you also appear to be doing the same atm. Null - Froggy (one post discussing policy and that's it), Bats (retracted his previous argument as others had the same opinion), Vivax (talking about Froggy) Null leaning scum - OWS - don't understand his posts, the SL lynch posts I believe were because SL was posting one-liner fluff but after that it was all one word posts. Scum - 27NB and Kush for reasons I've explained. I have to look into GlowingBear and Templar and a few others more. LS was null prior to his latest post updated with reads.
Hmm. How is Kush suddenly sure scum? Didn't you just mention that he was towny?
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On December 09 2014 22:13 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2014 22:09 ritoky wrote:
so are you saying you KNOW he is town? why can't he be scum? I don't know that he's town, but I also don't know or think that scum would roleclaim this early on in the game. I would think it's too dangerous for them to do so. Additionally, the Kush I recall from last game makes these sporadic posts for whatever reason and he was town last time, so I am using meta here.
Like... You just posted this.
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Scumreads? Townreads? Anything?
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[QUOTE]On December 09 2014 22:26 Half the Sky wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 09 2014 22:17 ritoky wrote:
what about his ninja vote? what about his content thus far in the thread? i could give 2 craps about your meta case, no offense.
[QUOTE]
Nope, you're right. I did not catch that until now. I caught Kush roleclaiming and it was out of the blue, but looking at filter, now when you add it all up, yes, he's scumlike. Two posts from what I can tell, really doesn't do much for what I can tell, certainly not productive for town, and the vote for you, there's no explanation, sheeping at best. [/QUOTE]
Oh never mind, I missed this post. But how did you arrive at this from how you meta'd him to be town just minutes earlier?
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On December 09 2014 22:51 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2014 20:41 Holyflare wrote:
Kush could absolutely be mafia at this point of time
That all depends on if scrooge is mafia or not. I kinda read the OP but not close enough to understand wtf is going on. I'm red but I have no scum qt?
I really hope you're trolling. Scrooge is a town power role.
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On December 09 2014 22:56 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2014 22:53 Xatalos wrote:
Oh never mind, I missed this post. But how did you arrive at this from how you meta'd him to be town just minutes earlier? I completely missed the ninja vote until Ritoky drew attention to it.
Honestly I have no idea what to think of Kush right now. I don't remember ever seeing his play being this nonsensical.
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On December 09 2014 23:01 kushm4sta wrote:
k im back for a second.
xatalos, you need to look at my behaviors in the context of me not giving a fuck. then they make more sense.
If you're really the Scrooge then you've just potentially cost us the game. That's why I hope you're trolling.
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On December 10 2014 02:45 Damdred wrote:
Heres the group I would be happy lynching into today
Froggy: One post said he was going to bed, the post had plenty of double speak in it and he hasn't returned and its been quite awhile (which isn't inherrintly scummy)
Bats: Hes probably the least hesitant that I would be willing to lynch into. Besides a couple of posts he is completely forgettable, he misrepresented peoples posts and then was forced to play and lurked since then.
FF: His posts seem to lack direction and its really difficult to even remember what all hes been doing in the thread without reading his filter.
I'm not sure that I would lynch 27nb today, she has done some scummy things i'm just a bit hesitant and the follow up to her return will decide that.
People i won't listen about:
Damdred, SL, Templars, HF, Koshi, RS, Oats, probably LS, kush
People who i love but am suspicious of
Xatalos (its just so formulaic and looks so town, he once told me that hes probably mafia when he actually looks town)
GB: Hasn't really read the thread yet has pretty unexplained reads tried to get people to view him as town becasue he had a present what? Unexplained scum read on templars I think even though hes claimed
HTS pretty unremarkable play so far but i doubt i would lynch her, even though the posts are scattered does have a somewhat direction and train of thought.
Tube: Need him to post more but he is seeming okish so far
one of my top lynches is a policy lynch basically and i know that, which makes his post even more hilarious to me.
I actually laughed out loud because this was such a funny suspicion :D Note that there's a post limit here so I need to reduce spam/fluff so that I won't hit the post limit long before deadline. Hint: it usually becomes clear if I'm scum or not around D2-D3. Not really worth using more posts on this topic now though.
On December 10 2014 03:06 Damdred wrote:
Seriously we should lynch GB who's whole d1 policy is to lynch lurkers not ignore them completely and fo after active people this is what he did in the one hour titanic mafia as scum
Has he not played similarly as town? His first vote in the Guilty game was on a lurker. Granted, he then went after me and rayn. But I don't see how GB is top scum from that meta point.
On another note, I don't think we should lynch LS today. Well, he already basically claimed to have a role.
I guess 27ninjabunnies isn't a bad lynch at this rate. It's hard to find anything towny about her other than the easy wagon.
Tubesock: could you explain further HTS leaning town / null? I got the impression from your post that HTS was looking bad (or null at best) and that 27ninjabunnies was just worse.
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On December 10 2014 04:24 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 03:54 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2014 02:45 Damdred wrote:
Heres the group I would be happy lynching into today
Froggy: One post said he was going to bed, the post had plenty of double speak in it and he hasn't returned and its been quite awhile (which isn't inherrintly scummy)
Bats: Hes probably the least hesitant that I would be willing to lynch into. Besides a couple of posts he is completely forgettable, he misrepresented peoples posts and then was forced to play and lurked since then.
FF: His posts seem to lack direction and its really difficult to even remember what all hes been doing in the thread without reading his filter.
I'm not sure that I would lynch 27nb today, she has done some scummy things i'm just a bit hesitant and the follow up to her return will decide that.
People i won't listen about:
Damdred, SL, Templars, HF, Koshi, RS, Oats, probably LS, kush
People who i love but am suspicious of
Xatalos (its just so formulaic and looks so town, he once told me that hes probably mafia when he actually looks town)
GB: Hasn't really read the thread yet has pretty unexplained reads tried to get people to view him as town becasue he had a present what? Unexplained scum read on templars I think even though hes claimed
HTS pretty unremarkable play so far but i doubt i would lynch her, even though the posts are scattered does have a somewhat direction and train of thought.
Tube: Need him to post more but he is seeming okish so far
one of my top lynches is a policy lynch basically and i know that, which makes his post even more hilarious to me. I actually laughed out loud because this was such a funny suspicion :D Note that there's a post limit here so I need to reduce spam/fluff so that I won't hit the post limit long before deadline. Hint: it usually becomes clear if I'm scum or not around D2-D3. Not really worth using more posts on this topic now though. On December 10 2014 03:06 Damdred wrote:
Seriously we should lynch GB who's whole d1 policy is to lynch lurkers not ignore them completely and fo after active people this is what he did in the one hour titanic mafia as scum Has he not played similarly as town? His first vote in the Guilty game was on a lurker. Granted, he then went after me and rayn. But I don't see how GB is top scum from that meta point. On another note, I don't think we should lynch LS today. Well, he already basically claimed to have a role. I guess 27ninjabunnies isn't a bad lynch at this rate. It's hard to find anything towny about her other than the easy wagon. Tubesock: could you explain further HTS leaning town / null? I got the impression from your post that HTS was looking bad (or null at best) and that 27ninjabunnies was just worse. Well Xatalos you are just so overtly town I have to be suspicious of you right now its only the right answer. Besides that I figured that would be your response since we have post restrictions. You did ignore my next post where I said not to lynch you for today though. The meta on GB isn't that bad, ever since avocado mafia its something gb has followed strictly as town to the point of getting scum read for it in some situations and as mafia going against the lurker lynch to pursue higher profile people. It is not a guaranteed scum to be sure but I think its a good chance at this point.
I saw that post too, I just didn't quote it. It basically had the same content anyway except saying that you'd delay that thought. Feel free to do so.
As a sidenote, I kind of like your posts so far. The claim also helps. Unfortunately I don't think I can put you as sure town since I've never been that good at reading you.
Hm. You might be more familiar with GB than me. I wouldn't really want to lynch him based on a meta read that isn't even from my own experience though.
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Could you link the games you're referring to?
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On December 10 2014 05:15 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 04:38 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2014 04:24 Damdred wrote:On December 10 2014 03:54 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2014 02:45 Damdred wrote:
Heres the group I would be happy lynching into today
Froggy: One post said he was going to bed, the post had plenty of double speak in it and he hasn't returned and its been quite awhile (which isn't inherrintly scummy)
Bats: Hes probably the least hesitant that I would be willing to lynch into. Besides a couple of posts he is completely forgettable, he misrepresented peoples posts and then was forced to play and lurked since then.
FF: His posts seem to lack direction and its really difficult to even remember what all hes been doing in the thread without reading his filter.
I'm not sure that I would lynch 27nb today, she has done some scummy things i'm just a bit hesitant and the follow up to her return will decide that.
People i won't listen about:
Damdred, SL, Templars, HF, Koshi, RS, Oats, probably LS, kush
People who i love but am suspicious of
Xatalos (its just so formulaic and looks so town, he once told me that hes probably mafia when he actually looks town)
GB: Hasn't really read the thread yet has pretty unexplained reads tried to get people to view him as town becasue he had a present what? Unexplained scum read on templars I think even though hes claimed
HTS pretty unremarkable play so far but i doubt i would lynch her, even though the posts are scattered does have a somewhat direction and train of thought.
Tube: Need him to post more but he is seeming okish so far
one of my top lynches is a policy lynch basically and i know that, which makes his post even more hilarious to me. I actually laughed out loud because this was such a funny suspicion :D Note that there's a post limit here so I need to reduce spam/fluff so that I won't hit the post limit long before deadline. Hint: it usually becomes clear if I'm scum or not around D2-D3. Not really worth using more posts on this topic now though. On December 10 2014 03:06 Damdred wrote:
Seriously we should lynch GB who's whole d1 policy is to lynch lurkers not ignore them completely and fo after active people this is what he did in the one hour titanic mafia as scum Has he not played similarly as town? His first vote in the Guilty game was on a lurker. Granted, he then went after me and rayn. But I don't see how GB is top scum from that meta point. On another note, I don't think we should lynch LS today. Well, he already basically claimed to have a role. I guess 27ninjabunnies isn't a bad lynch at this rate. It's hard to find anything towny about her other than the easy wagon. Tubesock: could you explain further HTS leaning town / null? I got the impression from your post that HTS was looking bad (or null at best) and that 27ninjabunnies was just worse. Well Xatalos you are just so overtly town I have to be suspicious of you right now its only the right answer. Besides that I figured that would be your response since we have post restrictions. You did ignore my next post where I said not to lynch you for today though. The meta on GB isn't that bad, ever since avocado mafia its something gb has followed strictly as town to the point of getting scum read for it in some situations and as mafia going against the lurker lynch to pursue higher profile people. It is not a guaranteed scum to be sure but I think its a good chance at this point. I saw that post too, I just didn't quote it. It basically had the same content anyway except saying that you'd delay that thought. Feel free to do so. As a sidenote, I kind of like your posts so far. The claim also helps. Unfortunately I don't think I can put you as sure town since I've never been that good at reading you. Hm. You might be more familiar with GB than me. I wouldn't really want to lynch him based on a meta read that isn't even from my own experience though. No xata you have always been good at reading me you just never trust yourself and give into paranoia and scum pushing if you are town. And yea i'm not sure that we should lynch GB based entirely on this piece of meta as meta reads can be a bit misleading, however we can lynch GB for not really contributing to the game not reading the game, not making any type of real push besides on someone who has claimed a role etc
On December 10 2014 05:18 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 04:38 Xatalos wrote:
Hm. You might be more familiar with GB than me. I wouldn't really want to lynch him based on a meta read that isn't even from my own experience though. Xatalos, I'm noticing a trend here, after looking at GB's filter, I'm seeing one post refuting you for what is a pretty minor point, but most of his posts are all over the place. Damdred is correct, not sure where he's trying to go. The problem is there's a few others falling into this category (Kush, Lian, FF, one could argue Oats too) as mentioned before with random posts. This may or may not be typical for D1, with meta being used to argue for or against some of these individuals (Kush for one, Oats was also like this last game, though I cannot comment on Ritoky, I didn't see a problem with him). It is making some of these people though very difficult to read, and for a town agenda, that has been pretty frustrating. Disregard meta for all of them, and they all look pretty bad. Froggy, just read your post, I don't think #1 is entirely accurate, I got the impression people kept policy votes in the back of their mind whilst still scumhunting. Town should always be scumhunting. I think that's why Damdred called you on it.
I'd say he's someone to keep eyes on, yeah. Today's lynch? Probably not the worst idea, even if the case on him isn't all that solid. He has the opportunity to participate in the remaining day after all. If he doesn't seem better by then, it's definitely an option.
Maybe I was wrong about HTS. She seems to be actively doing stuff for now so it could be too hasty to lynch her. 27ninjabunnies on the other hand, doesn't look any better than earlier. Mainly for the fact that she defended froggy and then put him on her scumlist anyway when pressured. And townread the people who had stances against her own. Basically just meaningless listing contradicting her other posts. It could be that the scumteam merely doesn't have that much thread presence or is bussing her.
##Unvote
##Vote 27ninjabunnies
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ritoky what were your reads again? I see you've mentioned LS (now retracted) and FF (no further explanation) as scum. So... Is FF still scum? Why?
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Haha, it's true that FF's reads are really superficial. I don't think the case is too bad actually. Hm.
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Though your last point isn't really accurate. FF was specifically asked to give his opinion on kita's vote. It's not like he's giving kita a town pass for the day.
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On December 10 2014 12:36 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 12:31 rsoultin wrote:@Viva On December 09 2014 09:30 KelsierSC wrote:
So i think fecal is scum, we played a game together as town and early game he was very try hard, essentially Kush made a set up/mechanics comment and fecal went back to the setup, worked through all the permutations and then asked Kush to explain. Super town super eager.
this game i make a set up comment, then retract it and ff doesn't bat n eyelid. All he does is talk to slam about sumo. Which is pretty pointless. Like "herez an excuse nit to scumhunt" it doesn't feel towny at all Whether you believe KSC or not, Xata did not pull the "reaction test" thing out of his ass. I personally don't approve of this move and might even call it scummy, given a dumb scrooge might have fallen for it, but whatevs. Says nothing about Xata. If you want a read on someone, ask. @Damdred...seems more lazy than scummy to me, the Templar post. Unless you're telling me he isn't usually fluffy (which considering his silly Santa stories, you'd think that would have raised a red flag by now with those of you who have played with him before). He asked a few good questions in the text wall. Yea gimme a read on Xata. He did pull it out of his ass cause it wasn't a reaction test. A reaction test is something you purposefully do to fish a reaction. What Kelsier did was an attempt at taking advantage of the setup, then he realized it failed, then he looked at FF and called him scum for not looking more thoroughly at what he did there, meta-based.
Could you clarify why you thought KSC's plan was an afterthought? I got the opposite feeling. Mainly for these reasons:
1) No scum in their right mind would blatantly bluefish for "setup reasons", then retract the idea a few minutes later... that's very risky play for Mafia and they would almost certainly double-check before proposing a plan like this, especially if he noticed that it was faulty in just a couple of minutes afterwards
2) I think his chain of posts were stupid / risky, but I can more easily believe it coming from over-eager town rather than suicidal scum
3) KSC did actually go after FF after that which leaves me to again think that it probably wasn't simply an afterthought
So yeah, I don't really see your point here. Please enlighten me on why you think differently of KSC's play there.
On December 10 2014 13:02 Vivax wrote:Then, what gave me more confidence is the matter of his read evolution on 27nb: December 09 2014 12:42.: Show nested quote +
Regarding 27ninjabunnies, there are two reasons that make me think she might be town:
1) She easily gathered a ton of votes and the rest of the votes have been scattered around everywhere. This makes me think that the Mafia team is supporting her lynch or at the very least content with it. If that wasn't the case, I think her wagon would have been a bit weaker or at least there would be a competing wagon. Right now it just looks like 27ninjabunnies is heading to be lynched and the Mafia team is happy / doesn't care about it.
2) If Half the Sky is Mafia, I feel it's quite unlikely that 27ninjabunnies is Mafia as well. Pre-flip association, I know, but I don't think scum Half the Sky would easily pile on a scum 27ninjabunnies wagon or that she would first start casually discussing with 27ninjabunnies and refer to her as town.
So I don't really think 27ninjabunnies is a good lynch for these reasons.
December 09 2014 14:02: Show nested quote +I agree that 27ninjabunnies doesn't look good. She also does have more fluff than you. Fluff in itself isn't so bad though, in my opinion. What I was more concerned about is that your posts seem to maintain some appearance of relevance without really having much (if any), whereas 27ninjabunnies has more fluff that's clearly just useless. Generally I've noticed that Mafia tend to make posts more along the lines of your posting style.
December 09 2014 19:54. Show nested quote +I guess 27ninjabunnies isn't a bad lynch at this rate. It's hard to find anything towny about her other than the easy wagon. December 09 2014 22:02: Show nested quote +Maybe I was wrong about HTS. She seems to be actively doing stuff for now so it could be too hasty to lynch her. 27ninjabunnies on the other hand, doesn't look any better than earlier. Mainly for the fact that she defended froggy and then put him on her scumlist anyway when pressured. And townread the people who had stances against her own. Basically just meaningless listing contradicting her other posts. It could be that the scumteam merely doesn't have that much thread presence or is bussing her.
##Unvote
##Vote 27ninjabunnies Like, this doesn't make ANY sense. The reasons for her being scum were there from the start, yet all dismissed just cause so many people found them good and cause of the associative thingy. And when 27nb comes back at December 09 2014 18:07, to explain that iffy for her means null, Xata skips over it in his next posts to progressively get closer to lynching her as his traction on HTS loses strength. It is a BIG deal whether iffy means scummy or means null in someone's opinion. Obviously you can't verify it for sure if it's just an excuse or the truth, but at least it takes some wind out of the former arguments. And at the time when the arguments against bunnies were the strongest, Xata found some very questionable reasons for townreading her. When the time comes where the arguments against bunnies should be put into question given her explanation, he ignores the new information and joins the wagon based on the old information, using it as the main argument. Also notice the use of the word "fluff". "Fluff" in this game has been literally dropping down from the sky from a multitude of players, and I don't see how Xata applies it so selectively to only these two players. I don't want to count the amount of the word "fluff", between being used as bulk of his case against HTS, to being differentiated into useless fluff and fluff with usefuleness (or something like that), to be called "not so bad in itself". The use of the word fluff in here is mostly just an excuse to scumread people or not on a whim and completely arbitrary. You can't measure the amount of fluff, and it has to be seen in context. When HTS posted fluff in her first post, it was scummy. Ninjabunnies had more fluff initially, but it wasn't so bad in itself.Why? Cause more people voted her! Clearly Xata has a blatant double standard here, and the read on NB should progress in the opposite way, if he had rolled town.
I was very tired last night and I don't think I saw a post from 27ninjabunnies that would make me think differently of her before leaving. HTS was posting better in the recent pages so I thought that it might be too hasty to just lynch her. Unfortunately I was too tired to start reading through filters again so I just left my vote on 27ninjabunnies. She seemed like a better lynch than HTS at the time despite her being the only real wagon. By the way, I find your point about "iffy" and "null" meaning the same thing to be very weird. Just a bit earlier you were advocating that KSC's earlier play was all an afterthought, but here you don't even seem to consider the possibility. What gives? If anything, 27ninjabunnies' claim looks a lot more like an afterthought. If "iffy" and "null" both meant "null", why separate the categories? Doesn't "iffy" sound somewhat suspicious anyway instead of just null?
Then again, 27ninjabunnies did softclaim Mason (?) after I left. If she really does claim Mason later on, I don't see a reason to lynch her unless the other Masons counter-claim. Though it could easily be a scum strategy too (baiting counter-claims before dying).
You should just check my earlier games to see that I often separate fluff into different categories. Pure fluff = fluff that has absolutely no relevance to the game, usually not really alignment indicative. Semi-useful fluff = fluff that's slightly relevant to the game such as setup/role talk or policy talk. That's the easiest thing to talk about for Mafia while maintaining a semi-useful appearance and that's why I often look at such posters first on D1.
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EBWOP: Vivax did actually consider that 27ninjabunnies was adding the null/iffy thing as an afterthought. Never mind that point. Dunno why it's even an argument against me though since it's really weak.
Apparently all the votes on me were on false premises (Vivax) or pure sheepvotes (rsoultin/Obi/Tubesock/Fecalfeast). Honestly speaking the wagon looks just totally atrocious. Just look at these votes:
On December 10 2014 13:49 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Vivax is town.
Xatalos is scum.
Let's go.
##vote xatalos
On December 10 2014 14:49 rsoultin wrote:
Heh, I don't have to agree with anyone to prove I'm town, and you in particular do not intimidate me, Vivax. I think you made a good catch here. If I didn't I wouldn't have taken the time to try to verify it, even if I did make a mistake in doing so. I think this is a better case than OWS.
I still want to hear what people think of Glowingbear. Especially those who have played with him before. Is he always this...absent when he plays?
##unvote
##vote Xatalos
On December 10 2014 14:52 Fecalfeast wrote:sheepalfeast rasputin you didnt use the voting thread
On December 10 2014 19:31 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 19:06 LoneMeow wrote:
Why did you vote Xatalos after saying you don't understand the wagon and essentially making a light push on the opposing wagon? I was pissed. I'm still mad. Once Koshi responded that my post was completely worthless due to the claim which I missed. I reverted to my previous read of Viv and sheeped him. I calmed down a bit and thought about my scum read on Obi, my uncertainty about Rasputin, and realized that all through their talk about Xatas they never cited NB as a claimed role. So, I ninja'd back my vote to 27NB.
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ObiWanShinobi's vote looks really bad. In addition to his vote being a pure sheepvote, he says this afterwards:
On December 10 2014 14:50 ObiWanShinobi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 14:49 rsoultin wrote:
Heh, I don't have to agree with anyone to prove I'm town, and you in particular do not intimidate me, Vivax. I think you made a good catch here. If I didn't I wouldn't have taken the time to try to verify it, even if I did make a mistake in doing so. I think this is a better case than OWS.
I still want to hear what people think of Glowingbear. Especially those who have played with him before. Is he always this...absent when he plays?
##unvote
##vote Xatalos This is a much better response. @FF: Xatalos made up reasons to hop on the NB wagon.
So rsoultin removing his vote from Obi and sheepvoting me instead is a "much better response"? That makes no sense unless Obi means that it's best when people sheepvote on someone that's not him. I don't even.
Also the last part "Xatalos made up reasons to hop on the wagon" is a gross misrepresentation of both my play and even Vivax's case. What Vivax said was that I didn't vote for 27ninjabunnies when the arguments were strongest and voted when they were less strong. I don't really agree with that argument (since the only possible argument for 27ninjabunnies being town by then was a sketchy explanation to her listpost, and HTS had posted better which made 27bunnies relatively more scummy than before), but even if that argument was true, ObiWanShinobi's summary of the case is an exaggeration. Not only does he sheep but he also spreads misinformation.
Also, looking at Obi's filter, it's really atrocious overall.
OMGUS:
On December 09 2014 23:40 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Holyflare might be mafia for thinking I'm mafia.
Baseless town passes:
On December 10 2014 11:42 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Working on them now. Tempted to call you town for holding me accountable for posting them. Give it some time because I'm going to post on a bunch of people I find important/interesting.
On December 10 2014 11:52 ObiWanShinobi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 11:49 kitaman27 wrote:On December 10 2014 11:35 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Can you guys stop calling me mafia because I work during the day?
I mean really. ^ Found one Disgruntled Christmas Worker lol Also inclined to townread this stud because he made me giggle.
Pure sheeping:
On December 10 2014 13:49 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Vivax is town.
Xatalos is scum.
Let's go.
##vote xatalos
Yeah. He could definitely be scum.
FF's vote is bad. So is the vote from rsoultin. Tubesocks' vote is probably the most ridiculous. At least he removed it soon enough.
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Tubesock: So you just sheeped Vivax even though you didn't believe in the case at all? What exactly happened there?
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Also Tubesock I asked this from you yesterday:
"Tubesock: could you explain further HTS leaning town / null? I got the impression from your post that HTS was looking bad (or null at best) and that 27ninjabunnies was just worse."
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Well, it's not that terribly relevant anymore when I sort of view her the same way now.
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EPT
