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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 07 2014 08:44 ObiWanShinobi wrote: So you think that BH's RNG lynch strategem can only be purely scum motivated? This is a fairly relevant question. I'd like to take this moment to note, liancourt, that I do this all the time as town because it is objectively a good strategy. I'm pretty sure I've done it as scum too (Though I can't think of the game where I did it now) but that's cause as scum I try to play to my town meta, not because this is something I do as scum. RNG is, in my personal opinion, very good. You may disagree, but unless you can demonstrate that I personally don't think RNG is good (a hard thing to demonstrate given that I always use it) I don't see how you can paint my choice to use this scumhunting tactic as scum-motivated. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 06 2014 12:53 ObviousOne wrote: first On October 06 2014 13:02 ObviousOne wrote: que pasa con sus consuelas hijoles fritas On October 06 2014 13:04 ObviousOne wrote: p.s. bedtime nitenite On October 07 2014 02:09 ObviousOne wrote: Oh shit we're doing an RNG vote? Fuck yes, where's the vote thread? On October 07 2014 02:15 ObviousOne wrote: Okay good, now that's out of the way. #1 oats is prob town he's too frustrated and sticking around despite it. By corollary I like HF and batsnacks based on that discussion. #2 don't know what to make of Grack, he was present and participating in a conversation but I don't really see anything alignment indicative after almost a full page of filter #3 interested in the reply from storr re: liancourt On October 07 2014 05:33 ObviousOne wrote: Lol holy shit self voting is literally against the rules I should have read at some point. Someone asked bout my oats read and it was cuz he stuck to defending his claim as a joke an participated in tomfoolery ironically aaaand that's literally everything this guy has posted. Surely everyone agrees with me here that someone like this can't possibly be allowed to live. Anyone complaining that people voting for an RNG target are opting out of the discourse, look at OO's filter and tell me with a straight face that he isn't also opting out of the discourse. In any case, let me know if you guys have any questions or anything you want me to focus on as I catch up. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 08 2014 01:36 Damdred wrote: BH could you look at storrs case/lian and hf and tell me what you think? Sure! I like some of storr's case on lian. I agree that lian hasn't taken strong enough positions, and seems to have attempted to do weird things on the OO wagon. That being said, the fact that he and KSC are dubious of RNG does not imo make them scummy. I think Storr's case would make for something interesting to follow up on after the OO lynch. I don't want to draw associative tells between unflipped players, but basically I don't find doubting RNG to be inherently unreasonable. Trying to throw lots of doubt on it, then saying that "rng is a method for scum to be using", seems to be something a new player could reasonably believe. If OO flips mafia scum, I'll be much more suspicious of lian. I think storr raises a good point that lian doesn't have aggressive reads. An important post to focus on is this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/468053-fantasy-football-ffl-mini?page=28#544 On October 07 2014 18:00 liancourt wrote: At first I was thinking of BH because of his RNG but then obi and slam says it's his original playstyle so I'm a bit reluctant to think of him as scum and BH's posts seem legit also. Then there's grack who voted for OO. Following a random vote in my eyes is pretty scummy to me, but then he switched votes so I'm back to null. And then you have obi and HF. HF does have valid points and I think obi is just voting HF just because HF is voting for him. In my eyes it's two townies fighting. We have the overreacting oats I town read him earlier if i recall correctly due to his reactions in the earlier part of the thread. The iffy hopeless, I haven't been paying attention to his posts for some reason so I need to see his filter. I'll come back on this. Although I hate to admit it OO does seem strange the way he was reacting. It'd mean I'd have to vote for a random vote which I'm reluctant in doing so because it'd go against my principles. Bats the trapper seems pretty townie to me deducing from his earlier interactions with oats. I think this leaves damd, palmar and storr? Damd is asking questions here and there kind of like an out fighter not giving away too much. Palmar and storr haven't really done anything worth mentioning. So assuming there's 3 scum I'd pick these three. But I'll wait until tomorrow until they post to be sure. Maybe they'll bring in some fresh content that we're missing. Lastly there's you, I also need to look at your filter so I'll comeback on this. Basically, KSC asks Lian, "what are you scumreads", which is a reasonable question (KSC gets some points for this). Lian's reply is a rambling list post that doesn't have a cohesive read to unify it, or a case. Storrzerg accurate points out that the post doesn't specify a top scumread very well. Storrzerg says it already, so I won't bother repeating: Storrzerg The question is, who does he think are scummy? 1. bh. Null 2. grack Null 3. obi hf 2 town fighting 4. oats town 5. hopeless is iffy, hasn't been paying attention to him. 6. Back to OO being strange 7. bats town So "damd palmar storr" as mafia? (yes he puts it in a question mark. Is he unsure he walked through everyone? is he sure he picked the right people to call mafia? 2 people fairly inactive. ) His scum read on damd is "not giving away to much" since he only asks questions and scum read on palmar + storr "haven't done anything worth mentioning" And of course ends with "but ill wait until tomorrow until they opst to be sure" he is leaving himself an out, an escape to make sure people don't read to much into what he is saying. The main point is that it was an awful list post. Yeah, this is good stuff. I like the storrzerg case. It's reasonable and liancourt doesn't look good. If I weren't so sure on this OO thing I'd consider voting liancourt. As it stands, I think we can deal with liancourt tomorrow. I'm gonna not focus on KSC for a moment except to say: On October 08 2014 01:40 KelsierSC wrote: @bh i don't think anyone is seriously considering oo for the lynch because of the rng but because of his lurkiness and bad posts. When OO flips scum you can apologize to me for ever doubting RNG. I realize things got a bit rambly there so I'll summarize real quick 1. I still think OO is the best lynch, as I've outlined. 1.5. I think it's pretty clear OO is doing some kind of lurk / low energy thing this game. We can anticipate him coming back sometime near the end of the day and claiming he was busy or something. 2. Storrzerg's case on liancourt points out liancourt's very scummy response to "what are your scumreads", making me interested in lynching liancourt tomorrow | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
tbh RNG doesn't land on scum most of the time, but sometimes, it actually does! | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 08 2014 03:21 Palmar wrote: I kinda wanna lynch BH for that post. But you won't, because I'm too right and too useful :D | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 08 2014 04:48 liancourt wrote: Well I agree with BH's post and like I said before his posts generally smell of townliness despite his RNG. If he doesn't use the RNG then I'll be content. Not sure if you're aware, but we're lynching my RNG target today so nya nya nya. On top of that, I literally wrote a case against OO entirely because I RNGed him and there's nothing you can do to stop me from saying that. Granted, OO happens to also be scum, but the REASON I'm voting him is because of my slavish devotion to D1 RNG. Bear in mind, I never use RNG after D1. So you don't have to worry about that. But this is RNG. Once again, I have pushed an RNG lynch. I am god. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 08 2014 05:04 liancourt wrote: So basically, if I put one name down as scummy and gave a valid reason for it I wouldn't be scummy for it? You and storr have very similar play tactics. Pressure one person. Yea it's good and all, but don't try to influence others into playing the way you two play. And then calling them scummy if they don't play to it. I.. what? I'm sayin you made a waffley list post. If you don't take stances, it's easy to wiggle out of things as scum, and hard to coordinate as town. Flipsy-flopsy list posts are generally considered scummy On October 08 2014 05:12 liancourt wrote: It seems like a pattern here you have to put stamps on everything. Town stamp Null stamp Scum stamp People don't seem to be satisfied if I don't use one of these stamps. I'm giving my honest opinion in most of the discussions whether or not I strongly feel about them. The only discussion I felt strongly about was the one with BH and I was pushing him for scum hard, you guys don't think this is relevant because you got this prejudice/stereotype of BH's RNG as not "alignment indicative" and just flatly ignore the whole discussion as null. Yea if you just ignore that whole segment I'm so unsure of everything and I can't pressure anyone. if by "stamp" you mean "playing the game by telling us what you think of people's alignments" then yes, I am not satisfied unless you use a "stamp". please "stamp". | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 08 2014 05:24 KelsierSC wrote: So just read your filter when you were discussing BH and I don't really see you pushing hard scum on him. You disliked the RNG, but then you said he was town because of a different post. then you said he felt towny but the RNG was mafia indicative. This isn't a hard push imo You also made a post saying "from D1 I got....." but BH wasn't mentioned on that list. I think one of the main issues isn't that you don't stamp everything but you haven't stamped a single thing. Even now I am not sure who you think is town or mafia. KSC knockin it out of the park. woot woot | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 08 2014 05:58 Palmar wrote: Like the one thing that makes me not want to lynch BH is that the scumslip thing was so monumentally stupid (it's 200% reasonable to assume 3 scum in a game of this size) that I just don't want to lynch him to spite the idiots who thought it was relevant. Even if BH is mafia, that was not a scumslip. I love you for this, Palmar. I promise to not be scum this game just because this reasoning is so glorious. It just makes me so happy that you're in this game. Therefore, I grant you one Limited Wish to use as you want this game, any time between now and game end. I grant you this Wish entirely on principle, because the principle of the matter is strong with you. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 08 2014 06:09 Palmar wrote: BH didn't say that though (and I wasn't aware that OO self voted). I read this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=23075621 and was under the impression BH mostly wanted to lynch OO for basically being uninterested. Oh, sorry, let me be clear. I'm lynching OO basically on policy here. I RNGed him so I'm lynching him. After trying to convince people to lynch him just for RNG reasons, I realized this wasn't very convincing so I started talking about how he's inactive, and people jumped on the wagon. I think I've explicitly stated I've written my case against OO entirely just because he got RNGed. It also happens to be a good case, btw-- my motivations don't change the facts-- but RNG guides me on this one. I take responsibiility for my decision to lynch OO based on RNG because no other case has been suffeciently convincing | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 08 2014 07:56 Grackaroni wrote: I disagree. It's one thing to be open to lynching him and its another thing to just completely ignore the obi suspicion when HF/I were pushing hard on obi. I feel pretty strongly that if OO is scum and Obi is town then there would be some people agreeing with Obi being scum so they have another option to switch to if OO ends up not being the lynch. OK, let's say I grant you that scum would consider other lynches if OO was scum. Let's say that's true, for the sake of this argument. Consider the alternative situation. Let's say OO is town, right? You're scum and you see this apathetic, useless townie going up for the lynch. Do you just hop on the wagon mindlessly (remember, this is a somewhat contested wagon, people are saying things like "people are voting this wagon so they don't have to discuss") or do you try to bring up an alternative lynch candidate? As scum, you want to appear to be that paranoid townie who didn't trust the D1 wagon, if OO was town. It would be like "OO the townie has been lynched!" and then the scum player would be like "ugh, come on guys, look at this long post I wrote (on another townie), that despite my pushing was ignored! Come on, guys! get with the program!" and he'd collect town cred. So, I think we can agree scum would consider other lynches if OO was town, too, right? In fact, I think no matter what OO's alignment is, it makes sense for scum to push other lynches because his lynch, though contested, is inevitable and there's little to be gained by pushing it. Now, does it make sense to raise a huge rabble and draw a ton of attention to yourself as scum in this situation? I think regardless of OO's alignment, the answer is "no". Whatever OO will flip, you want to do a decent effort on pushing another wagon (or at least one person on the team should), but in a quiet D1 like this rocking the boat will only draw attention. In any case, I guess the point I'm getting at here is it's reasonable to say that scum will push OR not push another wagon, either way, at some moderate amount, regardless of OO's alignment. Your statement, which is that scum would push another wagon if OO was scum, is also true for if OO is town, and so isn't useful in determining OO's alignment. God, I hate associative tells between unflipped people | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 08 2014 08:10 Palmar wrote: So basically what you're saying BH is "it don't even matter bro". I guess my point is kinda useless now that there's an actual counterwagon, but the point I was trying to make is "absence of a counterwagon could happen on both a scum or a town lynch" | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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