Newbie Mini Mafia LVI - Page 6

On June 24 2014 01:27 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok, I'll do more later, including Haru's request. I tried to read the whole thread but it is INSANE to keep up all the information. My head it hurting a lot LOL

On June 24 2014 03:28 GlowingBear wrote:
Hahaha I thought that just right after I posted.
I hate not being able do edit now

On June 24 2014 04:12 GlowingBear wrote:


Hahaha I wouldn't worry if I were you. You have too many spotlights to be the first kill. Mafia will be roleblocked if they try to kill you. They will follow someone else.

On June 24 2014 04:14 HaruRH wrote:


He probably meant jail on me tonight.

On June 24 2014 04:33 Epishade wrote:

I don't think I will. That post wreaks of scum.

On June 24 2014 04:41 Epishade wrote:

When you post like that so carelessly such that it interferes with the game, it shows that you aren't putting as much effort into the game as you are paying attention to other various forum posts.

+ Show Spoiler +

On June 24 2014 04:48 Epishade wrote:

Lol.

On June 24 2014 09:01 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:

Why vote Haru out of the blue when you're so sure that Teemu is scum?

On June 23 2014 05:53 meatpudding wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Templar, my mistake. I was confusing you with something that Nydus said.


I don't have a strong case against Haruhi. But this post seems to be contradicting what he said about not scum hunting on D1. I went with my vote for this and because besides from this he is not being too direct. I'm trying to avoid a mislynch and if you think Haru is not worthy to lynch don't vote.

On being paranoid of Teemu, he has been on my case since I introduced myself and hasn't let up one bit. He is pushing the lynch wagon hardest as well. Teemu strongest scum lean for me but I am not proposing a lynch because he posts a lot and might lead to more info and contradictions in the future.

Teemu, Templar and Haru are leaning scum for me, but sure the case is weak.

That's all for now. If I'm back before closing I can make another post.

On June 23 2014 12:16 meatpudding wrote:
Teemu



Way to jump to conclusions. Anyway I pointed this out before that I was introducing myself and responding to Templar.



Teemu was really quick to start pushing on me at the start and yet 20 mins later making town lean calls on Templar.






To me, Teemu's willingness to make these reads based on one or two posts seems hasty and irrational. I (semi-seriously) pointed out that Teemu and Templar are likely a scum team trying to make false headway. (Hence my reading of Templar's future posts from that perspective.)





Teemu trying to cover his tracks? Who was the first to suggest I should be lynched? - Teemu. I think that he plays too well to make mistakes like this. The only thing that could excuse him is because I'm a new player, his reads are wrong because I'm not playing the normal way.






Teemu would have us believe that his D1 scum reads are infallible. So far he has only made one strong call to mafia (guess who) which seems suspicious to me. He has basically stopped pressuring now that he has made up his mind, and that I have helped convince half of town that I may be scum anyway. Easy lynch for Teemu.



Not the strongest case, all things considered.

On June 23 2014 12:52 meatpudding wrote:


I kind of skimmed it. Seems like your case was just based around how he claimed to have read you? He seems to have drawn conclusions without much interaction. I certainly don't get what Tolkien and MM have to do with one another, and Tolkien is taking steps as far away from him as possible.

Anyway I can't follow MM's process at all. I'm not sure, but I hope you guys know what you're doing.

##Vote: MysteryMeat1

On June 23 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote:


I was going through KotC's posts when the lynch was taking place. I kind of couldn't make up my mind, even after MM flipped.

I was not happy to vote for MM, because the case against him didn't convince me completely. His own reactions caused a lot of suspicion though. I can't call Cats or Tolkien scum based on that alone.

Right now my thoughts are
Teemu - potential scum
Tolkien - potential scum
Cats - fence
Templar - town

On June 23 2014 09:28 Lord Tolkien wrote:

Alright, reviewing it from the top, I really just don't feel he's been forward with his opinions in the second half. The majority of his posts have been pressing questions and opinions from people, which is fine, but he hasn't done much after that.



Some explanation for some of the reads would be greatly appreciated. Specifically jabber.





Also, quick response to Glowbear:


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/301748-a-general-guide-to-mafia


If you are lurking as a blue, YOU'RE NOT PLAYING WELL. All you're doing is drawing attention to yourself by conspicuously not posting anything. There is no tangible benefit to lurking for town, as we can't figure out alignment and shit. PLAYING BLUE IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR PLAYING BAD. So if I have to light a fire under your arses, fine. For D1, this is a perfectly sound policy.

Anything regarding my push onto Scott is well-tread ground, so unless you have anything new to ask or to add, that's a beaten horse.


It's a difficult vote for me right now. Until I get an acceptable defense that isn't an OMGUS, meatpudding is a pretty scummy candidate no matter my potential misgivings of Teemu. The only other option for me I is jabberwocky given the aforementioned discrepancies in his filter and shifting opinions. I want an explanation for it, but it's far less egregious than meatpudding's posts. Which are basically just OMGUS, and pretty useless from a town standpoint. A vote on meatpudding would additionally clear up my muddled picture of Teemu, and a few others, who are currently on him, based on his flip.

But it also feels bluntly plausible that' he's just a poor newbie who's struggling to learn the game, since he's pretty blatantly OMGUSing here. But then again he'll be useless in that case so...




Well, actually I really like Cats' recent posts and I agree with him on MysteryMeat's apparent discrepancy about our lynching policy towards non-contribution and lurkers. I'd like him to respond to it, because it's a pretty glaring difference when I was way more over the top with my stance on the issue. Probably a D2 case to bring up overall, but I actually VERY much like the case Cats brought up.

I also didn't notice that we both proposed the same policy, him bringing it up first. Outside of the apparent frenzy over his introduction, he's leaning town to me now.

Noticeably:



Ok you know what, fuck it.

It is a VERY glaring inconsistency for MysteryMeat1 to condemn Cats for the possibility of a mislynch and not my push. The post is too reminiscent of my experience with N1k0 in my first TL mafia game. As much as I hate it since I really do want to lynch meatpudding for being a useless fucker, but...

##Vote MysteryMeat1

It's a tough choice, honestly. Moderately strong scum read vs. scummy read/pretty useless contributor. But this is what my gut says.

Also, glumly awaiting modkills on the 2 inactives (or a swap; 2 modkills is fucking brutal).

On June 23 2014 13:02 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I will probably be going to sleep/doing other shit after the flips. I've sunk way too much time into this today. One note:

REMEMBER GUYS, talk and post at night. Obv don't talk about stupid shit like WHO'S BLUE, or WHO SHOULD COP CHECK/MEDIC PROTECT/CAPTAIN PLANET SMASH? But talking at night is something that town should absolutely still be doing.

I'll do what I did in my past newbie games and post a comprehensive night analysis post just as it's about to end.

On June 24 2014 06:37 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Alright, I'll be back watching this thread sporadically, and I'll post the brunt of my analysis towards the end of the night.

That being said, I have a few clarifications to make for Teemu, and an addendum to the (failed) case on MM1.


To fully elaborate on the reasons I pushed it:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/450895-newbie-mini-mafia-lvi?page=23#459

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/450895-newbie-mini-mafia-lvi?page=24#461

In his initial reads list, he said this:


But later, when pressed on me by Haru, said:


At this time, I had already made my case on Scott at least 12 hours ago I think.


KotC points it out, and I agreed with him wholeheartedly. He finds KotCs his top scum for being fine with a lynch of a non-contributor yet said he didn't have any feelings about me, when I start a lynch of an effective non-contributor (and push for a lurker lynch policy), and stated that a mislynch is an acceptable risk in D1 without a strong scum read. When I actually noticed KotCs state this, it seemed eminently impossible to me that he would be able to hone in on KotCs for that policy and make him his top scum choice, while completely ignoring me, as I was far louder telegraphing my intentions about it in the thread than KotC did. I, and apparently others, didn't notice KotC make that statement either.

I felt at the time that this was far to glaring to ignore, given there were votes onto KotC and he was under suspicion and, at the time, everyone had read me as on the fence. I considered it a very plausible motive, and a clear explanation for why he didn't vote for me (he was scum hoping to blend in). At the time, my only other major scumread was meatpudding, and I had a stronger read on MM1. It was, as I noted, a very tough choice and I wondered if MM1 could've been a better D2 case.

I stopped pushing after I made my initial case to support KotC after I pushed this theory and case, since I didn't want to tunnel it completely onto him, as meatpudding was also an acceptable lynch and I REALLY wanted to hear from both of them. I made some unnecessary cutting remarks, but really from that point on, he hung himself with his own posts, and it was Cats and everyone else who did most of the pushing.

There's quite frankly not much else I can say when he posts really confusing shit like me and him having a potential relationship; as I stated, wat is the relevance to anything if you're speculating about a potential relationship on D1 about a period of time between when you made your first reads list and when I pushed the case on you. I think we spent at least a good 30 minutes trying to figure that out, which unfortunately detracted from his defense to the point where enough people decided his flailing was too confusing as I did.

I was fairly certain he was scum up until the flip, but by that point, I was fine with him dying even if he was town because I couldn't understand his arguments by that point. <_<;

In hindsight, he likely simply didn't read the thread where I started the wagon on Scott well enough and pushed onto KotC with the most concrete piece of "evidence" he could've. But again, I stand by my reasons for voting MM1 at the time.



As for a pre-emptive defense of myself, where do I make such posts? I don't recall making such posts at all D1, but I might've done so. It was an exhausting 1/2 of the day for me. Partially why I stopped seriously pushing the case on MM1.

I'll be quite honest, I would rather have heard from you, Teemu, before the flip. Accusations are easy now after flips have been made, so I would've much rather have heard from you while the case is in-progress; it would be much more enlightening to your motives and your opinions. Grilling me is a natural position after I had such a heavy hand in the MM1 lynch, so I really can't read anything off this. But time constraints and timezones, I understand.





The initial reads list, he didn't at all after he decided to decry KotCs for being top scum for an lynch-of-non-contributors policy, when he says absolutely nothing about me, except something confusing about me thinking Cats was scummier than meatpudding and that's it. He decided he was NEUTRAL on me, which made no sense given the context of his vote. In hindsight it was just a major glaring error on his part, but the major lapse of consistency made me eminently suspicious at the time. Think about it yourself. If you had read his initial reads (+ what Haru pushed for) at the time, what would you have thought?



?????

I was referring to MM1, not meatpudding (and IF he's bad town, parts of it still do).

I should've quoted the post I was referring to, but I was tired, but here's the context post I was responding to.



By "fine" I was referring to his conduct, which is fine. Mafia can be pretty aggressive, and he didn't do anything out of line.

(If anyone did, it was probably me)


I clarify that later too.



My stance on meatpudding didn't change throughout the entirety of D1: he would've been an acceptable lynch for me as well, I just felt I had a stronger read on MM1. I would've preferred it if they both died, and have/had nothing against lynching him.



And as you mentioned Haru, the cases on both of them were certainly very similar (why I spent so much time debating which one to move my vote to after pressuring Scott [who now appears to be AWOL]), I simply felt that MM1 was more likely scum.


Ill answer any questions as I see them from now until the end of night.

It's a tough choice, honestly. Moderately strong scum read vs. scummy read/pretty useless contributor.

On June 24 2014 12:50 meatpudding wrote:
Templar why do you think Tolkien should go after me D2, and not, for example, Cats?
I don't think it would be weird if he decided to go after someone else if he had a good reason.

On June 24 2014 23:24 GlowingBear wrote:


Your post strike me as odd.
It's because the scenario you've brought isn't the only one possible.

Possible scenarios are:

1) Tolkien was on the right track and asking the right questions, so it was better for Mafia to make him shut up. This is too simplistic, it would easily lead townies to lynch the right people. I don't think Mafia would do this.
2) Tolkien wasn't on the right track but being shot would lead town to misread other townies. This one seems more plausible to me.
3) My stupid mistake made them change their top townies change targets to someone who had more scumreads
4) Top townies are actually very good scums and they killed at random (I think this is too much)

As I think (2) is more plausible, your post striked me as odd because you seem to push (1) as the only possible interpretation, leading townies to misreads and, therefore, to mislynchs. I'll keep an eye on you.

On June 24 2014 21:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:

First of all you're assuming that scum shot Tolkien, it's possible that scum got jailed/roleblocked and the vig shot Tolkien.

Tolkien being shot because be suspected the right people makes little sense but lets analyze it a bit.
If me or meatpudding are scum it would be pointless to shoot him for suspecting us because half the game does, if either of us were to shoot him it wouldn't change anything for us and it would actually be detrimental for us to do that as scum because Tolkien was looking scummy to a lot of people too and he would've been one of the easier people to push for a mislynch. seeing as him, me and meatpudding were the main lynch candidates today we wouldn't kill one of our most valid chances to escape a lynch. Teemu, well this one's simple. If he was going to shoot someone for being "on" to him it would've been meatpudding because meatpudding's been on him more. Why would he shoot Tolkien over meatpudding? Why would he shoot either of them for that matter? They were both suspicious to a lot of people and he wasn't. As for Jabber...i dunno. He seems to be on a few peoples radars if i remember correctly, it would make more sense to shoot one of them for being "on" to him as opposed to one of the lynch candidates. It really doesn't make sense for scum to shoot him especially for the reason you posted. Personally i think the less likely situation of scum's NK being blocked and a Vig targeting Tolkien is more likely.

On June 24 2014 22:12 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:

Thank you. That means you townreading Templar so quickly isn't scummy.

I'll be looking through your and everyone else's filters a bit later (i started looking through your filter yesterday and that's what made me ask meatpudding all those questions). I just came in to check the thread after waking up, effort will be applied in...lets say 3-4 hours.

On June 25 2014 00:42 GlowingBear wrote:
I'll answer you soon, Templar. Before that:

are there any clues on mod posts?

On June 25 2014 03:29 Epishade wrote:
I had a feeling I might get some flak for my post earlier, albeit, not in the way I expected.

People are saying that my post is a little scummy for leaving out other scenarios. I did make it before Templar said he was jailed, and also before Haruhi said she was roleblocked. I honestly just didn't even consider that mafia would miss a shot and instead the shot might be from vigi. I also didn't really expect mafia to shoot someone at random, as I don't really think they would shoot someone without putting any thought into it just to screw with us.

I did consider (but didn't include) mafia using wifom in their shot decision in my post, such that we'd think they shot Token for being on the right track, when instead they shot Token because he was on the wrong track and they wanted us to think he was right. But I really didn't think that was the case either. I don't really see that happening in a newbie game, where they might expect that some people might not have even theorized that Token was shot because he was on the right track.

You guys realize too, that if mafia did, in fact, miss their target and vigi shot Token, that either Templar or Haruhi would be scum then, right?

On June 25 2014 03:35 The_Templar wrote:

It's also possible, in this scenario, that medic (if there is one) healed the mafia target, or they targeted me and jail protected me.

On June 25 2014 03:45 Epishade wrote:

There is no medic in this game.

Actually, I didn't think of that. It does go both ways. I was thinking that if you were jailed and handed the gun, that you wouldn't have been able to shoot somebody while vigi shot Token. You're right.

That would also take Haruhi off the table then too, since mafia still could have wasted the shot on you and Haruhi just gets side-roleblocked.

On June 25 2014 07:26 Solar424 wrote:
Hey. Sorry for being so inactive. I'll try to be more active from here on out.

On June 25 2014 05:57 Tehpoofter wrote:
GOOD NEWS FOLKS I have come to save this village from imminent fail. I never should have left Teemu and Nydus in charge. I will give mafia an hour to concede. At which point if our town surrender demands are not met I will begin referring to mafia as wolves to further degrade them and calling them out one by one.

I have linked the hero before me's beautiful filter for full analysis:




RIP Solar424 2014-2014.

On June 25 2014 06:09 Tehpoofter wrote:


You may have said it before but who is your top wolf/village. (<<<<<<<<<Please use the following format.

Top Town: Tehpoofter
Town: Mr.White, Colonel Mustard
Wolfy: Professor Plum, Mr. Green
OUTTED WOLF: The Candlestick

On June 24 2014 14:35 Epishade wrote:
Ermm, I was really not expecting Token to get shot, of all people. I expected either myself, Haruhi, or Templar to die tbh, as we've all been townread for the majority of the game by most people. Token could have been a potential case if someone were to call him out, so I have a hard time rationalizing why mafia would shoot Token over someone more townie.

The only way I can see Token's shot being justified is if mafia thought he was on the right track and shot him to get rid of him, because objectively, that looked like a bad shot to me. You usually shoot people that have little chance of getting lynched for reading townie, but there seemed to be enough suspicion on Token (or at least, more than the three people I listed above) for me to think that that wasn't the reason he was shot.

There are a few people that Token scumreads over day 1, and I think that probably played a part in his death.

His scumreads:
JabberZerg (initially, then changed his mind to a townread at 4:00, which wouldn't have given mafia time to change their shot if JabberZerg wanted to keep Token alive for townreading him, assuming that Jabber is mafia)
meatpudding
Teemursu
Cats

His townreads:
Haruhi
Templar
me
Hobbit (only in his post at 4:00)

Fence reads:
Nydus

Dunno reads:
GlowBear
Other peoples

So I think the cases should probably be focused on people in his scum list at this point. I mean, he did say for people to look at me, GlowBear, and Nydus day 2 in his 4:02 post, but I'm not considering these specifically right now because they came too late to be able to influence mafia, and I'm only looking at the reasoning for shooting Token here over someone else.

He also asked me to post my reads on him, Cats, and meatpudding at this point, too, but I woke up too early today and am dead tired. I'll post my reads on everybody I have reads for sometime tomorrow after I wake up.

Night all.

On June 24 2014 03:19 GlowingBear wrote:


Haha don't worry, I have good feelings towards you. You sound greeny, even blueish to me. I just like to cover all possibilities. I'd be too naive if I didn't.

On June 25 2014 06:26 Teemursu wrote:

Great. More posts that I don't want to read.

On June 25 2014 07:57 The_Templar wrote:

Oh good, I guess mafia is surrendering in a few minutes.