EPTNewbie Mini Mafia LV - Page 2
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On April 29 2014 11:33 mtamburini wrote: Good qualities in a leader is keeping town on the right track and not derailing conversation. Putting pressure on people when you can smell the scum coming off their posts. And the most important part is always be right and pray to god your not wrong. The best part of being wrong though is you can reevaluate why you lynched that person and see what direction the previous day was going. Also seeing who dies in the night helps us take into consideration what they have said before they died and take them as genuine reads. Why do you want to lead the town? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On April 29 2014 11:40 27ninjabunnies wrote: @Eden: Reaction testing: yes. Cunning: absolutely. Am I rescinding? No. So what did you learn from this? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On April 29 2014 10:54 Epishade wrote: I got a heavy scumread on MysteryMeat guys. Thoughts, Eden? Depends on whether you mean "scum" as "mafia" or "scum" as in "terrible person." | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On April 29 2014 11:47 27ninjabunnies wrote: As I stated earlier, I don't like how he reacted. He claimed mafia, which yeah, I get seems trolly. And sure he may be town, but I've played games where a person has claimed mafia, even voted on themselves, and has lived til final mafia and won as mafia. So as of now, I don't like Yell0w, and until he proves otherwise, I'm keeping my vote on him. What did you learn from this? That you're new to forum mafia and have a chip on your shoulder. This doesn't tell me anything about either of your alignments. You seem genuine enough so far, so I suppose it's not all bad. But you didn't really answer my question. Maybe we're not referring to the same thing. What was your reaction test, and what did it teach you about the game state? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm not sure why you think I have a chip on my shoulder. Intuition. Don't worry yourself over it. I'd not have volunteered it but for your asking what I learned. So that was my reaction testing. I see. I thought the vote was the test. You're making the right moves by asking questions and digging into the responses you get, but remember to read the responses you get from both town and scum angles. I think it's pretty clear that Yell0w wasn't serious. @Epishade: I think you're pushing this case too strongly, I agree. and, if anything I'm getting more of a scum read from you than anyone else yet. I disagree. bunnies is my best town read not involving my role PM right now. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On April 29 2014 12:10 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Wait, Eden, why do you mention your role PM? It's how I know I'm town. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##VOTE: Sweetfrost | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##UNVOTE ##VOTE: Epishade | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On April 29 2014 12:27 27ninjabunnies wrote: I mean, I'm all for reaction testing, but can someone explain to me why this is okay to do, and what I did apparently is scummy as fuck? Especially when I havent seen sweetfrost talk once? Sure. What you did isn't scummy at all, and the people telling you as much are fools or worse. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Back to work. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE: dfs The other non-posters are in Western/Central Europe so I'll give them a chance to show me when they wake up that they mean to play. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
@bunnies: Do you still think mtamburini is scummy? And if so, how do you feel about the fact that he's been pushing Yell0w harder than everyone else except for you? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##VOTE Yell0w I reread his filter and I don't like it at all. I put my vote down while I was writing this. Here's what I've got. N.B.: I've only thoroughly read his filter so far, haven't fully caught up in the thread proper. I've read a few things here and there to get context on his posts, but that's about it. - Initial interactions with bunnies: Upon rereading his filter, I don't like the tone of this post: On April 29 2014 12:18 Yell0w wrote: Well I am glad this issue got resolved rather peacefully, I now unfortunately have to sleep, but I will see you all tomorrow. Also I'm pretty convinced bunnies is town now, probably epishade too, the rest I don't know. bunnies certainly didn't seem to think the issue was resolved, for one. Seems like he's a little eager to sweep aside bunnies's initial prodding. His reaction also doesn't line up with his words before. He called bunnies "insane" for her line of questioning, then is immediately okay with her 20 minutes later. There's some other stuff that's wrong too, namely... On April 29 2014 11:33 Yell0w wrote: And in how many games have you been where somebody claim town and ends up being mafia? I think that happens more often than people who claim mafia and are mafia, therefore I'm statistically innocent. Please. "I think X is more likely than Y, X clears me, therefore I'm statistically innocent" is a self-evidently terrible argument. On April 29 2014 11:46 Yell0w wrote: @bunnies: Why would I need luck? Are you that convinced I'm mafia? Or is it that you just want to lynch me anyways for other reasons? Like, you actually are mafia and you're just jumping on any reason to lynch a town? This an agonizing 30 minutes before townclearing her, and 10 minutes before telling Amiko that he thinks she's town. This guy is way too defensive in the face of a bad initial argument from bunnies. - Worrying Way Too Much About Being Suspicious: I'm of course referring to this post. Who cares? What good does it do to know what rikory wanted to hear? If you're town you shouldn't care. It gets worse in his next post: On April 29 2014 21:47 Yell0w wrote: Just woke up, first thing I see is clearly the discussion on me restarted because I asked a question to ritoky( I think I got your name right this time), and just to make it clear here, I wasn't asking how to be more towny, I was asking him how he would have responded, because he said my response wasn't ideal, so I was curious what the ideal response, in his opinion, was, didn't know asking questions was frowned upon. I was actually really happy with my response and wouldn't have changed it in any way, I think it created a big conversation really early in day 1, which is pretty great. And I have a coach if I have questions like "how to be more town?", I wouldn't ask that in the thread. Still catching up though, will probably post more. So for one, straw men like "didn't know asking questions was frowned upon" raise my red flags immediately. This isn't a genuine question or remark at all. Secondly, again, why is he so worried about what ritoky thinks? This is silly if he's town (as it's distracting from scumhunting with useless conversation) and sensible if he's scum (as it's attempting to gauge why ritoky finds it suspicious in order to change behavior and become less suspicious). It gets better, believe it or not... On April 29 2014 21:55 Yell0w wrote: Just to point it out, how is this question better? She's basically asking the same thing, wondering what she did that was scummy so she can stop doing it. I'm just saying. Now he's whining about how bunnies isn't getting asked about the same thing, as though (a) both questions are the same in the first place and (b) in all other respects their play has been identical. I think the questions are similar but coming from different places -- bunnies is wanting to know why I'm not getting negative attention for my votes when people are calling pressure voting suspicious (town-motivated), Yell0w is just whining about how people are paying attention to him (scum-motivated or at best not-pro-town). bunnies has also separately been very proactive, Yell0w isn't (see next point). - Reactive Behavior: Yell0w hasn't done anything to be proactive this game. Part of it is being on the defensive early, but he's had plenty of time since then to build his own cases or even question people without being questioned first. This hasn't happened as an overall trend. He's hopped on the "Eden is weird" bandwagon, conveniently mentioning that he thought me "most suspicious" last night without doing any questioning either to develop his suspicions into a coherent case or to dispel them. Just like his "suspicion" of bunnies which was dropped in about a half hour (see above), he goes from "Eden was my top suspect last night" to "His behavior was really... weird [...] but it doesn't necessarily strike me as being mafia plays, so I don't know" in about an hour. Then immediately afterwards he jumps on "Sweetfrost is weird" when Epishade said it. This post is terrible: On April 30 2014 04:25 Yell0w wrote: @Epishade Just wanted to say that I agree about everything you said on Sweetfrost, and I also wanted to add that I feel like he didn't even read the entire thread when he says something like: When I really don't think I made any sarcastic or joking remarks since I became a suspect, I think he just went with what tamburini said to say I'm the prime suspect without actually reading what I said. Also, unrelated, but that is actually something I wanted to talk about and forgot, I do think it's really important to act town if you're town, so other townies know you're town too, if no one believes you're town, they won't listen to you, won't lynch with you, it can lead to a mafia win just because the townies weren't being obvious townies so nobody trusted anybody. He "wanted to add" this factoid about Sweetfrost not reading the thread, but at the same time he doesn't actually do it until someone else expresses suspicion of Sweetfrost. OK. And then this passage at the end is just full of applause lights. tl;dr: - interaction with bunnies isn't good at all - way too defensive - not proactive or scumhunting at all Vote Yell0w. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On April 30 2014 05:28 sqrtofneg1 wrote: And where were you the last couple of hours? You were active during that time last game. It's the most wonderful time of the year. Finals and a big career move are eating a lot of my time. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- Still feeling good about bunnies. I'll get back to what I was asking her about mtamburini when I'm done rereading (assuming where I was going with it is still relevant). - Sweetfrost's filter is horrendous, but I'm not sure what it means yet because it's hard to envision Sweetfrost and Yell0w both being scum right now. - mtamburini is... ehh. His more recent posts have been okay, and he's been on Yell0w's case a lot, which is good, but there's not a lot of useful content in his filter. Not sure I want to call him town yet but he's trending that way in his filter. - dravernor is sketchy, and I think he makes sense as Yell0w's teammate. Aside from "my that Yell0w fell0w sure seems to be the topic of attention wouldn't you say my friends" and "I really don't think the Yell0w fell0w is mafia chaps" he's not taken firm stances on people and has made it a point to say that no one is really acting suspicious (which I think is patently false). - ahswtini had a good post here but I don't like the lack of commitment to any stances on people. Kinda in the same boat as dravernor if not for the post I just highlighted. He's not really distinguishing himself from the crowd. Null. - MysteryMeat1 is inactive as hell and hasn't posted anything but applause lights when he has posted seriously. I'm fine with frying him. - dfs seems fine. Wish he were more active but otherwise I don't have any real complaints, nothing's jumping out. His initial summary post irked me but he's since developed it and asked some questions based off of it. - Yell0w is scum. - Epishade still feels like he could be Yell0w's partner, but he's active and I think I read too much into his posts last night and saw something that wasn't actually there. The only major mark I have against him is that he's remaining noncommittal about Yell0w. It's weird that he says he's "not against the lynch yet" wrt Yell0w, but he was already actively defending him against the lynch last night. If Yell0w is town (and I don't think he is, but for sake of argument), then I'll move Epishade to my town pile. If Yell0w is scum then I can't ignore my intuition telling me "kill this guy." - Amiko is town, just wrong about me. I think this one's pretty self-evident, he's asking good questions and making cases. If anyone actually disagrees with this then I can elaborate but I don't think this merits a lot of discussion right now. sqrt's filter is too long and ritoky's too substantial for me to break down right now, I'm about to be gone for a little while. I'm not lynching sqrt today anyway (rule of thumb: never lynch the most outspoken person). I'll read through ritoky's stuff later. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
tl;dr: - kill Yell0w - kill Epishade if Yell0w is scum, otherwise he's probably okay - dravernor, ahswtini, MysteryMeat1, Sweetfrost are good other scum targets - mtamburini needs to do more - everyone else I'm fine with | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
So I thought about Eden's post a little bit and basically most of what he says is really inconsistent with his behavior last night where he didn't seem to think I was mafia, yet half of his points are things I said during that time, I mean why didn't he bring it up then when I was under fire? I didn't give a clear statement about your guilt or innocence last night because I wasn't sure about it at the time. On rereading, I saw things I missed the first time, and I'm voting you now for them. What's the issue here? So few things, first I already talked about bunnies and my reasoning as to why I think she's town, you didn't bring anything more that wasn't already said here. Second, you were the first to move off the conversation about me when bunnies unvoted me and you started voting other people and stuff, so I have no idea how you could possibly bring up that as an argument against me. Also, I didn't say she was insane and I see no issue with disagreeing with someone's reasoning and still thinking they're town. Third, you actually think knowing what other people think isn't important as town? I think it's primordial to the game, if you know what they think you know what alignment they are. I do not understand your logic here. You said "it's insane to me that you would think X," I don't really see where that's any different from calling her insane, but that's not really the point. Here you soft-accused her of being scum, here you start to back down, here is the "insane" quote I mentioned and then here you call her a strong town read. This entire sequence occurred in a 30-minute span without any explanation at all. You can't credibly say you "disagreed with [her] reasoning while still thinking [she's] town." I didn't say it's unimportant to know what someone's thinking, either. That's another sweeping generalization of someone's argument that you've made in here. Your logic is sloppy, probably deliberately so. I did say you shouldn't be worrying about what others think about your alignment if you're town. As town, it's not important to know why someone thinks you're town or scum, no. You know what your alignment is. Whatever someone else is saying about your alignment shouldn't matter to you. They're either right or wrong, and if they're right, who gives a shit, and if they're wrong, you can always prove them wrong by finding scum. Why waste time defending yourself (which doesn't catch scum) when you can catch scum (which does defend yourself)? Instead, you seem content to do nothing but attempt to dissuade others' concerns about you. This doesn't advance the town's goal of catching scum. It advances the scum's goal of not getting caught. The reason I haven't been proactive is, well first I was being attacked, but also I don't like telling all my reads early in day 1, I think it's counter productive because if I say this or this thing that person did seemed mafia to me, they can easily change their behavior, so I don't say everything I think. This boldface part is great, considering the extent to which you've been asking questions about how to look more town. So it's okay for you not to be productive because you don't want to tip off the scum to your suspicions and give them the chance to change their behavior to be less suspicious, but when others take issue with things you say, you're going to ask questions that would allow you to change your behavior to be less suspicious? How does any of this help the town? Again, it looks like you're just trying to look good and stay out of trouble instead of getting into it and finding scum. That's the only decent argument you have, and if that's just it, there are better targets here, in my opinion. Name them, and then tell me why you haven't been doing anything to catch them. | ||
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