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syllogism
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On April 03 2014 15:36 Tehpoofter wrote: Why haven't we pushed the button yet? Seems like a good idea. Naa its just joey you're have to excuse him he's canadian. Ask him about numbers that gets his pee-pee going. Only when he's mafia. O really? Can't lynch you huh? ##Vote: Raynpelikoneet This post feels awkward to me even as a troll. In the subsequent post you postulate that, based on your video mafia experience, robik is really excited as town and you aren't seeing that here yet. You have at least some previous forum mafia experience, so I've a hard time believing that you can't see the difference between the formats. Was your genuine expectation that Robik's post would immediately convey the same kind of excitement and do you actually think that he has "quit"? That is, do you think that Robik was serious when he said he "would be back on day 2"? | ||
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On April 03 2014 11:36 Balla24 wrote: I did not claim this to be the case. Being fair is always nice though, for the people of course. What is interesting is not the fairness of the lynch but the attempts to make the lynch unfair. Can you elaborate on what you mean by the last sentence? | ||
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On April 03 2014 19:41 marvellosity wrote: I think Greymist could do this. More pertinently, it seems like a fuckton of effort to go through to write everything backwards. It's not something I'd ever see myself doing unnecessarily (as mafia presumably) because fuck that shit. It takes no effort at all. In fact, if you go here, copy paste his post and choose "flip wording", you get a perfectly normal post with no errors at all, spacing and all. That suggests it was done automatically rather than manually. Did this not occur to you? It is reasonable to believe that Greymist would realize such tools are available and I don't think it's likely he that would make a role with a posting restriction that takes no effort on the part of the person with the role. It also just makes the game more annoying to read and as far as I know, there are no previous Greymist roles with posting restrictions. If you agree, do you think this says something about Paperscraps? | ||
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On April 03 2014 14:23 austinmcc wrote: Hello, friends! I believe you'll find that I am currently Quetzacoatl, Bird God of Lightning and Other Things I Decide to be God Over. You can find my credentials elsewhere. yamato's bit on rayn not making townreads 5 minutes in reads like yamato town, silly thing to say if scum, and not in a good-silly way. Carefree comment, nonsense read based on nonsense reads, town. Especially since rayn thinks/thought that yamato might be mafia for being serious, yamato super town. keirathi hello! + Show Spoiler + I believe it's a piece of cake, if the way is hazy. I was once told that I had to "do the cooking by the book" and also ordered to "break it down bitch ... drop dat ass down low then pick that muthafucka up" gumshoe remarkably overzealous. everything else when skimmed does nothing for me or my pee-pee. Did you intend to imply that gumshoe being overzealous is alignment indicative and if so, does it make town or mafia? | ||
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On April 03 2014 22:59 IAmRobik wrote: I mean. If you are town then you're trying to lynch another town, so that's playing against your win-con. I know mine says something along the lines of I win with town. I don't need to win anyone's favor. I'm not here to make friends. I'm not here to make anyone feel good about themselves. I'm here because I like competition and because I want to win. I am town, thus I'm trying to solve the game. I don't think you're a strong player. I was told by Mattchew that you're good, but I didn't see any good town play from you in Foundations and I was able to determine that you were mafia based off of one measly sentence in Heavyweight Champ. You are clearly smart so you know mafia is a game of incomplete information and thus townie attempting to lynch a townie is unavoidable. So why are you saying something like this? It looks off to me; something a carleess mafia is more likely to say than a smart townie. As for the rest, the best way to win as either alignment is by making friends, even if just for the duration of the game. | ||
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On April 03 2014 23:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Lets lynch balla! syllo, why are you spending so much time coaching/buddying robik? I've made my motives quite clear. | ||
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Are you reading the thread or just skimming? I asked you a questione earlier. | ||
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On April 04 2014 01:18 marvellosity wrote: We can possibly deal with Palmar tomorrow (as in Friday). I'm curious as to what syllogism thinks of his behaviour. Based on my recent discussions with him and how he played as mafia in Titanic Mini, I don't think his play so far makes him mafia. You followed along that game so it should be fresh in your mind. What about his play so far makes him mafia? When you say we can deal with him tomorrow, do you mean to imply that he is your strongest read right now? | ||
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On April 04 2014 01:59 marvellosity wrote: It means I don't particularly know what to think. As far as I can see, he's trying to play along with his persona from the pre-game. The problem is that all of his reads (mafia ones) don't make sense and/or seem wrong to me, and don't fit into what I'd think "neutral good" would mean as a persona. I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you suggesting that he isn't role playing/messing around because it doesn't seem to match his D&D alignment? | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:07 austinmcc wrote: I don't think it's alignment-indicative, but I don't know gumshoe well. It's a stark contrast from what I know off-the-top-of-my-head about his recent play, and everyone else seems to be doing normal stuff (Palmar is being Palmar-y, people are being themselves-y, gumshoe is going ham on people). I like syllo for asking this question, he grabs a strange part of one of my posts, asks about it, in a way that indicates he probably wants to get a read on me. Why mention it at all if it's meaningless? Palmar hadn't even posted when you made that remark, and you using later content to explain why you singled out gumshoe at previous point is suspicious. Does no one else really feel different from how they usually play? | ||
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On April 04 2014 07:17 marvellosity wrote: All Palmar's reads are terrible and he's not even playing the game properly, so Paperscraps saying he's sheeping a trolling spammer while at the same time saying spam is making his eyes bleed is just stinkywinky. I agree with this, but him insisting on maintaining his supposed PR even after pressure doesn't strike me as mafia. Agreed? Sandro: HF does seem uninvested in the game so far. Not sure if that makes him mafia. Any thoughts on austin? Besides the things I mentioned earlier, his interactions with gumshoe overall seem random/forced. From my experience austin is quite paranoid and in this game he doesn't seem to be suspecting anyone so far. | ||
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On April 04 2014 16:54 Koshi wrote: Should I kill marv. No. Even if you suspect him, he is someone whose alignment will be abundantly clear after, at the latest, a few night of flips. | ||
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On April 03 2014 20:28 Tehpoofter wrote: @those awake currently what are your thoughts on Oats/ WoS? This looks strange given that Oats is/was one of your strongest town reads. What were you hoping to gain from asking this question? Robik: As I understand it, you are a bit more familiar with tehpoofter's play. He understandably was fixated on you early on, but hasn't really been doing anything since then besides asking, from my perspective, unfocused questions. On the other hand, he seems carefree; what do you think? | ||
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On April 04 2014 20:29 marvellosity wrote: sandroba/syllogism - honestly Paperscraps' filter looks quite different from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/422720-titanic-mini-mafia?user=Paperscraps which was his last town game, where he was lynched Day 1. He was more interactive, less sheepy, and had his own opinions There's actual insight and thought here. This seems totally absent from this game. Regarding the first quote bolded - it seems Paper is confident enough in himself when he's town to not give a shit about how he's perceived when he's town, and self-describes his mafia play as unruffling of feathers. In this game he's just sheeping what's convenient, there's no thought or insight, and he's not ruffling any feathers. It does look very different. I may have been too generous in giving him credit for standing firm on his PR. His Tehpoofter read changing based on seemingly nothing is also suspicious. As for Austin, I don't really have anything to add as my issue is mostly with his post-hoc justification for singling out gumshoe. I looked at some of his town and mafia games and his play here so far doesn't resemble either. That's probably a good reason to give him more time, but can you point me to a game in which he "pointlessly bumbled through day 1 as town"? | ||
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Gumshoe: I'm not expecting miracles from your answer, but could you attempt to enunciate as to why this game doesn't interest you? | ||
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I'm leaving in 30 minutes and it doesn't look like paperscraps lynch needs any help to reach majority, so that's where my vote is going. ##vote Gumshoe | ||
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On April 05 2014 04:47 kitaman27 wrote: gumshoe made a whole ton of posts in cell while making like 5 in Dr. Who as town. You think this still holds? I'll take a look. The issue is the allocation of time and effort between the games rather than just the notion that he always has to post tons as town. | ||
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On April 05 2014 05:02 Holyflare wrote: are you disregarding paperscraps who literally just said "i can't be bothered to defend"? No, paperscraps is a good lynch, but that remark was in the context of the best use of my vote given that that lynch isn't going to need any help and I won't be here to switch later. | ||
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On April 05 2014 05:41 sandroba wrote: Still not liking the paperscraps lynch. I'm inclined to go with tehpoofer if we can get enough support. That exchange with him and marv where he says he doesn't trust marv, therefore won't be voting paper is already a mafia tell, making assossiative reads with imcoplete information and not even reading the content of the case. But then he goes and does a complete 180 votes paper and vanishes after marv pressures him a bit. His initial Robik read also feels disingenuous. On April 03 2014 15:53 Tehpoofter wrote: As for really non-trolly reads. I think that iamrobik might be scum. In video mafia when hes town hes really excited and throws out town reads left and right and he started to do that but then he had his mafia tell where he just quits... I think if he rolled mafia it would be a good cop out for not posting a lot as mafia to have this fight with Dand(although robert does just have a temper we will see). I also wasn't terribly swayed by his case on iamp. This was very early into the game and the bolded doesn't actually have anything to do with this game. Could he have genuinely felt that robik had started giving out town reads, but then quit doing that at that stage of the game? That just seems like a blatant misrepresentation. ##unvote ##vote Tehpoofter | ||
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On April 06 2014 03:34 Tehpoofter wrote: I finally caught up with the thread. I can't decide if Robik started playing like hes town because hes town or because I called him out on not playing his town game. ^^more town posts like this please robik so I can stop feeling uneasy about you (note this is a read on robik only cause this is how he talks in these definite statements and he does as town play to clear town first) I'm reading Robik's early game filter, and he is making the same kind of definite statements. I think the better question is whether you changed your tune on Robik due to the flak you got for it or because you genuinely changed your mind. On April 06 2014 03:25 yamato77 wrote: Again, we see his vote leaving the majority pack and heading off to no-man's-land. Why would he switch now instead of earlier, when he noted the weakness of his gumshoe read and the possibility of poofter being a better lynch? Overall, I don't feel that he's made a strong read on any one person. His attempts at finding a lynch seem weak, and I don't like the timing of his voting. Fairly suspicious of syllo right now. I was reading filters for as long as I had time looking for alternatives. Why are you attempting to paint something clearly towny as suspicious? Furthermore, in the post you quoted Sandro states that he, too, finds tehpoofter suspicious as had many other players. What do you even mean by that "again" my vote is leaving the majority pack and "heading off to no-man's land"? Your own vote was on HF at the time. Actually, now that I look at your filter, you didn't even discuss paperscraps before the lynch. The only justification you gave for voting gumshoe was that he was playing "bad". Eagerly awaiting your first actual thoughts on him. | ||
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On April 06 2014 04:10 yamato77 wrote: I don't but the OMGUS here, bro. Not one bit. Answer the concerns instead of dodging. You are attempting to cast suspicion on me for something that could be doubly said about your own play. Hypocrisy or malice? Why were you ignoring the main wagon? | ||
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On April 06 2014 04:15 yamato77 wrote: I didn't ignore the main wagon, I saw people switching to gumshoe, and I voted him because majority. Why did you not want to keep your vote on the majority wagon and secure a lynch? I've explained that already. A lynch is going to happen on day 1 no matter what and I wanted to keep options open so we wouldn't be forced to default to paperscraps due to not being there to switch. Your claim about not ignoring the main wagon is not consistent with your in-thread actions. Perhaps you did actually form an opinion about the paperscraps lynch, but the only evidence for it so far is your word right now. What do you think about paperscraps? | ||
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On April 06 2014 04:25 yamato77 wrote: I ignored paperscraps and most of the action about his lynch happened Friday, for which I was gone. My only impression is that his backwards posting is unnecessarily retarded. Haven't filtered him yet, taking a break atm to watch LCS. What is your opinion on him? I noted almost nothing in your filter of substance on this matter, despite your insistence on the importance of me giving a read on him. I've stated my opinion of him. You have not explained why you are trying to frame something you yourself were doing as suspicious. | ||
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On April 06 2014 23:27 yamato77 wrote: No, Foolishness' version of the list could be the more accurate version. Minus killing, who I think is townish. Question is, who should we lynch first out of syllo, iamp, poof, djo, or Hopeless? I say syllo. We aren't lynching me ever and in fact are lynching at least one player outside that list. | ||
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On April 07 2014 00:42 justanothertownie wrote: Why aren't we lynching you? I didn't want you to be shot but lynching is a different story. There is no case for me being mafia other than the lack of effort. Fortunately I don't actually have to do anything now that this is a PM game and I can just discuss the game with Sandro. Besides that, for reasons that will be obvious soon. | ||
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Lets hear it then why he decided to target Kita and how that ability makes sense for a survivor who supposedly just wins by staying alive. | ||
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On April 07 2014 01:54 yamato77 wrote: If this is seriously your biggest concern, we are without a doubt lynching you today. I demand better from you than this, syllo, and if you are town you can deliver. If you are mafia you can die. You don't make demands from me. I am just like every other player allowed to invest as much or as little time into the game as I want. He was tracked to a kill and his role is almost certainly nonsense. It makes no logical sense. Look at his supposed abilities. His win con is to survive until the end of the game and he can either steal items or just self-protect every cycle. Then he also has a one-shot that disables item use and swaps items between players. How does any of that, self-protecting aside, make sense for a survivor? Even if he could just self-protect, he could basically claim and afk until the end of the game since no one is going to waste two kp on a claimed survivor. | ||
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On April 07 2014 02:04 justanothertownie wrote: Hmm, Greymist tends to give survivors some abilities to keep the game interesting for them afaik. Marv showed me his survivor role pm from a different greymist game and he had a whole bunch of abilities. The important part here is indeed that his target was a nightkill. Do you mean parallel worlds? In that game Marv's win con was to use all the abilities, at which point he would be removed from the game. He actually claimed that role. | ||
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On April 07 2014 02:34 Killing wrote: I really want to hear from hopeless He basically claimed his role so I want to hear what he did at night. If it's not good, I agree with koshi on the two kills. You agree with koshi on not killing the person who claims third party and was tracked to a kill? | ||
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On April 07 2014 02:37 WaveofShadow wrote: Koshi you are all kinds of wtf this game. Hey SYllo, going to comment about what I said about 3P in these games? It does somewhat weaken the idea that the abilities should be survival oriented, but why would Greymist design a role that can either choose to self-protect every cycle or do random things that aren't likely to further the win con in anyway. The role you linked had a passive ability that helped it to survive and in addition to that an active one. More importantly, why would choose to steal from Kita and do you really think this is just a coincidence? | ||
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##vote Amiko | ||
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##nuke Tehpoofter | ||
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To be fair, I should have pushed you more since you were clearly hinting at it | ||
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FOUR N1 protections on a single mafia | ||
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On April 22 2014 16:27 justanothertownie wrote: Yeah, wouldn't that have been a great idea?! Hey dude, I am 3P and my wincon is to shoot your scumbuddy so let's cooperate! Also I thought I would have won by the end of day2 so why bother. Not my fault that apart from sandroba scummers were scumming hardcore. Must have been someone else who was CONVINCED the game was lost in the obs qt. ^_^ You almost certainly thought Sandro was town on day 2 and cooperating with mafia to kill him was the natural thing to do. | ||
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On April 22 2014 16:49 Koshi wrote: Yeah but that's a big one. Should have saved LSB. Dat role was so strong. I know he said he almost RBed you instead, but I gues he wasn't paying enough attention to what you were doing to realize that you had revealed that you would be delivering the kp. | ||
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I give you credit for Iamp and LSB | ||
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On April 22 2014 21:41 Holyflare wrote: List was made far before any of them claimed mafia. It was a game of clearing people based on claims, roles and activity | ||
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Most themed games yes, I do that too, but I think hosts should give the subject more serious thought. Hopeless, Palmar, you, koshi, WoS and some others were essentially innocent children due to their roles and someone like JAT could almost never be mafia because his claim was too perfect (there really were insane people). The game was very light on analysis after day 1. | ||
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On April 23 2014 00:17 WaveofShadow wrote: How so? Oats killing me would have been a scumclaim either way I think, and it's not like BH being alive for the short time he was actually influenced anything at all (aside from forcing LSB to use his 'wish) Edit: A funny thing to consider is if I hadn't been so hell-bent on getting BH vigged town would have been in a much better position (assuming BH actually was going to play/use his role) throughout the game as well. Oats would have gotten the invention and we would have resurrected someone. Surely town would realize that something is up when mafia steals both inventions in one cycle? Right? | ||
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On April 23 2014 00:34 Crossfire99 wrote: The invention could only resurrect the first person alphabetically, hence BH was guaranteed to be resurrected. You could have asked LSB to change that restriction though. As for town realizing about something being up; if oats did exactly the same thing he did (trapping WoS) but did it a few hours earlier, I doubt people would have seriously suspected (probably will still be suspicions) because assuming if everything was the same, people would have seen oats flip and seen that he was telling the truth. Yeah extra suspicion would have been put on people in the circle, but that probably would have been better because you could have used LSB's favor to get another scum back in the game. It's completely different to do it after the invention has been used, but I suppose I'm giving town too much credit. | ||
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On April 23 2014 00:40 Crossfire99 wrote: Not sure what you're saying here, but all I was getting at was that if Oats trapped WoS a few hours earlier, he kills him the night he uses the item, but he steals it before he uses it. What I'm saying is that killing him afterwards doesn't make Sandro look suspicious, while killing him before does (not that we wanted Oats to kill WoS at all, definitely not when he did) | ||
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On April 23 2014 00:48 Amiko wrote: Just wondering syllo, why did you want to fakeclaim me visiting kita? I just figured you would gain more by mislynching someone who was likely town over 3p. I thought it would be easier to get a third party lynched (initially I thought you were lying about some aspects of your role and possibly couldn't win with mafia). Sandro was bussing me already over PMs and I thought I couldn't survive a PM day without insane effort or a claim like that. I didn't want to fake claim to anyone else as coming up with a reasonable fake claim takes effort. "Claiming" to Sandro on the other hand took no effort and possibly gave Sandro some town cred. Another issue was that I could only use my nuke within the first 24 hours of the day, so I had to know by that point whether I'm likely to get lynched or not. I initially wanted to utilize Oat's role for my claim. That is, claim a third party who has to kill Gandalf to win, but we went with the tracker idea instead. e: also my decision to track the person I claimed having tracked had to make sense. I could only choose either a suspicious looking townie (who might get mislynched later anyway) or a third party. In addition, the townie role claiming could have convinced town that I was lying. | ||
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On April 23 2014 01:30 Amiko wrote: Thanks for explaining syllogism  Also I was sad reading the scum QT that you didn't pass on the 'pumpkin pie' password (this was supposed we coordinated in PM to be something scum could use to verify that they were scum if they wanted to joint win)... I made myself search for it on every page to make sure I didn't miss a signal. @VE: I was just wondering did you think any of the other horses were not town? (from your PM I mean it sounded like they weren't scum, so could potentially be 3p) Essentially all my communications with Sandro were on skype, not on the QT. I didn't pass it on to anyone else since I didn't think anyone else could survive long enough for that to matter. I wish I had made the password a bit more subtle so Sandro could have hinted you that he is mafia earlier, although I'm not sure how you would have reacted to that. | ||
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On April 23 2014 05:46 Acrofales wrote: Well, it's not as if prince of darkness has any use for town. You got one invention each. Under other circumstances it's quite possible neither of the inventions would've been allowed, but as it is, we allowed them both. Town had 3 potential inventors though and the odds of mafia ever inventing anything in this setup were dismal. Unless mafia gets really lucky with n1 kills, there are going to be several almost confirmed townies on d2 and town could have just let those players assemble the invention. I'm not sure if I agree with the notion of allowing or disallowing inventions based on what is going on in the game. | ||
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