EPTDoctor Who Mafia 2
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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![[image loading]](http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzAzLzMwL2VhL0RhdmlkQ3J5LmI1OGM3LmdpZgpwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/df4aa4e0/5f3/DavidCry.gif) | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On March 30 2014 06:16 kitaman27 wrote: Hello! ##Vote: raynpelikoneet this is a lynch cycle...i can at least understand the slam lynch. This, not so much. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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maybe he wants to vote rayn for @Slam theres a vote thread | ||
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because the alternative means i need to be a dick to kita and i dont wanna do that right now. | ||
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On March 30 2014 06:25 kitaman27 wrote: I don't mind. i do. Why did you vote rayn? | ||
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big whoop, wanna fight about it? | ||
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On March 30 2014 08:28 Amiko wrote: @kitaman27 or @Hopeless1der: I don't really get the interactions between rayn & slam, if it's important can you explain it to me (or if it doesn't matter can you let me know)? I can't vouch for slams blabbering about meta reasons for his 1vs1 with rayn but slam is largely unreadable/incomprehensible around 95% of the time and it generally becomes necessary to burn a lynch on him...before lylo if possible. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Toad you want to explain why I'm scummy? Foolishness-hydra modkill bullshit notwithstanding you've quotes 2 posts and said "lynch dis" | ||
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On March 30 2014 19:36 kushm4sta wrote: Worst reason for voting someone I've ever seen. kush making sense...I like this | ||
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On March 31 2014 06:13 thrawn2112 wrote: i'm down with lynching hopeless cool, you guys can face rayn's ire when i flip town. | ||
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I will take it into consideration. | ||
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On March 31 2014 06:21 thrawn2112 wrote: you are absolutely useless and sadly probably town for it  On March 29 2014 00:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: 17. Hopeless1der - usually looks scummy regardless of alignment i really don't know why I have a meta to maintain | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On March 31 2014 06:24 Tehpoofter wrote: @thrawn yeah I saw after I already sent the previous post. And wait his little fit there about not caring and saying "you guys deal with rayn" makes you think hes town? I'm not compelled at all. How can he be so discouraged so early in the game we have no flips no known information for all he knows were onto all the scum and going to stomp if hes town. I hate the acting like a child and saying "i give" cause someone calls you mafia making someone town defense. I never said I give up, but I'm not going to "defend" myself from anything when rayn is out for slam's blood and will likely get his way. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On March 31 2014 06:27 Tehpoofter wrote: See thats a bad attitude Imo Rayn is only one person and he might be scum this game. Hes not the town hero he was in titanic this is a new game boys and you shouldn't just sheep rayn. The only way rayn gets what he wants is if you act like its a forgone conclusion. Yeah but maybe one day rayn will learn to tone it down a notch instead of pulling stuff like telling everyone they're bad/shit/stupid for simply disagreeing with him. In the meantime, he insists we can totally scumhunt while we circlejerk around slam's impeding doom. | ||
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On March 31 2014 06:32 Tehpoofter wrote: Do you think rayn is doing a good job of scum hunting? not particularly. | ||
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On March 31 2014 06:34 thrawn2112 wrote: right there hopeless. you just called rayn town. no i didnt, i said rayn gets what he wants because he is pushy. | ||
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On March 31 2014 11:29 Alakaslam wrote: What, is this going to be a pack of modkills? Where are these people? I'm content to drown in my sea of apathy. No idea about jjd or Austin. | ||
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On March 31 2014 21:46 Vivax wrote: Don't be so self-centered, maybe I'm hung up on Toad? could be true. alright, carry on. | ||
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 ##Vote: Alakaslam | ||
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On March 31 2014 21:58 Vivax wrote: Yeah but why do you tell him he has not to fear since you called him town and later you call that "townread" a joke post when I ask you about it? I was summarizing my play, slam thought I called him scum when I didnt. | ||
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On March 31 2014 23:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: He has done absolutely nothing in this game, has not tried to solve anything and i am the only lynch he can get. He literally just analyzed your play and asserted that you are scummy by working through your motives related to "web of disruption" and lack of followup. In what universe is that "doing nothing" or "not trying to solve"? He could just as easily coast along on the slam lynch. | ||
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On March 31 2014 23:52 kitaman27 wrote: Yep, assuming I don't come to the conclusion that you're not pushing a town vs town. rayn is guaranteeing and promising that I am mafia after a 10 sec response to my post. I am presenting a case why he is likely mafia after objectively attempting to lead him down a path to show he is town, reading through his past games for things like mass claim policy and mentioning my reservations showing that I am not 100%, and reading through other players filters to make sure he is the best lynch before deciding. Who do you guys trust more? In my currently preferred scenario, we lynch rayn. If he flips town, hope a vig can get you or slam and probably end up lynching the other one. If he flips scum, ##Unvote: Alakaslam ##Vote: raynpelikoneet | ||
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On April 02 2014 07:05 Vivax wrote: Hopeless who would you lynch today? You dont have any recommendations do you? Because at the moment* I would just lynch kita to avenge rayn. *I am only now starting to open filters, let alone read them. | ||
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On April 02 2014 07:45 Vivax wrote: (1)You make it look like kita alone is responsible for the lynch when you clearly should understand where he was coming from according to those earlier posts where you found his points on rayn valid. (2)Why kita and not slam btw? 1- I did find those points valid. I also have the ghost of confirmed rayn-"LYNCHSLAM100%_unlessyoufind100%mafia_ohlookKitamanismafia"-pelikoneet whispering in my ear. Again, this is not my own read, its sheeping the dead man. 2- The nuke that JJD is about to launch? | ||
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On April 02 2014 07:55 Amiko wrote: I think Vivax is asking this: Your preference was to lynch rayn. If rayn flips town, vig and next lynch take care of slam & kita. Vivax's question is, why not lynch slam and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & kita? Or, why not lynch kita and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & slam? Also, in my earlier post I questioned what Vivax quotes there - you write "If he flips scum, " then nothing else. What were you going to write? I dont remember...I typed the vote, copied it to vote thread then forgot to finish that train of thought. Probably something along the lines of "I will need to reconsider the thread" or some similar malarky. On April 02 2014 08:00 Amiko wrote: @hope1essrider: I am tempted to sheep dead rayn and feel like usually it's a good idea. But, I have trouble seeing how rayn could be so confident in his vote d1. Have you played with rayn before, do you know if he always presents a d1 read as a sure thing? Or does he only do so when he is sure? I could read rayn's games a bit but I'd like to be in thread a little longer before I disappear to reread something else, and it'd be nice to hear from some of the players who have been with him before since they may disagree on rayn's meta. the short answer is: Yes, rayn will often exaggerate a read to look far more confident than he actually is. However, I believe that if he were given veto powers on the lynch, he'd have had kita hang based on his posts. I thought Vivax was asking why lynch kita instead of lynching slam today. | ||
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On April 02 2014 08:15 Amiko wrote: You may be right and that could be Vivax's question. But, could you answer the question I thought asked? ( for ease: ) Your preference was to lynch rayn. If rayn flips town, vig and next lynch take care of slam & kita. Vivax's question is, why not lynch slam and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & kita? Or, why not lynch kita and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & slam? I think there is a straightforward answer anyway but eh maybe you'll surprise me I preferred to lynch rayn partially for "information" purposes, the wagons and peoples reads etc, and partially because I was more inclined to believe he was being a huge bully, creating a toxic environment and refusing to do anything productive. As it turns out rayn is just as capable of being demoralized as anyone else, but I guess I just hold him to a higher standard than other players. Slam imo is a bad lynch because he's likely 3rd party. You're never going to get a useful discussion surrounding his alignment. That meant that for me the lynch was between kita and rayn, and at least on D1 I thought rayn was scummier and worth lynching. | ||
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On April 02 2014 08:25 Djodref wrote: @ Hopeless Do you think that kita is scum at the moment ? Did you finish to read his filter ? havent read him yet. lost in austin's filter at the moment. | ||
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On April 02 2014 23:10 Vivax wrote: The question was: You say something about lynching kita, I ask you why you prefer to mention kita when you said we should also lynch/vig slam in one of your previous posts. Another thing I want to know of you is why you're so against lynching slam. Leaving the survivor survive is bad play if the mafia knows they can convert him cause nobody wants to lynch him cause he claimed 3p. No player should be given definite outs in a game where anyone could suddenly turn scum, and slam should have been lynched D1 already. You don't give clues as to what you think of rayn's alignment throughout having your vote on him. You only seem to do it for the 1 v 1 he had with kita. Another thing is: You voted for Alakaslam D1 before going onto rayn based on his fight with kita. What was the reason for you voting Kaslam if today you say it's bad play to lynch 3p? Did you believe Kaslam was mafia? Cause here's the jist of things: - If you voted for Kaslam thinking he was mafia, it would not make sense for you to vote rayn for information purposes. - If you voted for kaslam thinking he was 3p, then it doesn't make sense for you to say that voting 3p makes it a bad lynch. I'm keen on this one. 3P lynch is bad, but leaving slam alive is worse. I wanted slam vigged, and now we have a nuke for him. If JJD doesn't fire his nuke at slam without having an ironclad case and/or hitting scum he's being tunneled until one of us dies. | ||
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On April 03 2014 00:02 Vivax wrote: So you chose to vote rayn for information purposes instead of doing something that would finally get slam out of the way? Of the people on rayn at the end of D1 I think you have a thin reasoning for ending up on him over Slam. You don't say why you thought he was scummy, but you understood what Kita meant in his post here In the 1 on 1 situation between rayn and kita, you chose to lynch rayn first. You did so for information purposes, so I take it you didn't actually agree with the stuff kita wrote? Cause I don't see you calling rayn scum for anything. i did agree with kita. i thought rayn was scum @jjd probably not tbh | ||
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I CLAIM CHUPAZI | ||
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I dont like JJD's accusations against kitaman. "Kita knows I'm town" when kita essentially said he'd push the low tier players and gave examples of who those players would be. "Kita retconned his case on rayn". I fundamentally disagree with this statement because Kita's case relied on the fact that he tried to get rayn to look into his meta and rayn refused to do so. It was an ongoing process that rayn never pursued him and that is what kita found scummy about rayn. So I'd want to lynch JJD for tunneling kita while being completely sure that he's right every step of the way. He never wavers, never reconsiders. I'd also lynch gumshoe for actively refusing to play this game. This should be self explanatory. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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What is the problem here? That I dont explain myself sufficiently? That I didnt have reasons to begin with or I wasnt taking stances? My filter isnt big, I dont have long convoluted posts. What is so difficult here? | ||
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Hopeless1der
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- rayn could fakeclaim. I thought rayn was scum. I continued believing rayn could be scum and left my vote accordingly. - slam could fakeclaim. I thought slam was(is) 3rd party. I dont think LYNCHING slam is a good idea. kita accepts 1v1 - Null, this seems to happen a fair amount when rayn is involved. - "avenge rayn" - I hadn't formed my own scumreads yet - suddenly against JJD - Guess what, I formed a scumread!! HURRAY FOR ME! | ||
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On April 03 2014 03:41 Vivax wrote: Kita explaining why he scumread rayn isn't consistent with the fact that he didn't find him very interesting at a previous time where the trap already should have sprung according to his later reasoning. the "trap" was not realized until kita reviewed the fact that rayn SHOULD have reviewed his meta but didnt. | ||
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##Vote: gumshoe | ||
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Toad because he keeps saying stuff like "i havent read that yet" but he's all up in thrawns grill for his read on rayn. | ||
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1) invoking foolishness I find completely unfair, especially as I am the target. This seems to be a huge factor in rayn not giving a shit and yet Toad is still alive and not doing that much. He also mentioned that he disagreed with foolish on how to read slam. It seems that Toad actually had a conversation with foolish about this game. ----- Actual Scumhunty things: 2) In light of the above, Toad accuses rayn of "knowing he's town" (i.e. Toad is telling the truth therefore he must be town). He also notes that Kita is obv town at a time when it didnt seem like a very reliable read and that rayn was "to watch". 3) Completely hung up on Thrawn supposedly having a 100% townread on rayn. I dont think thrawn was that confident, nor is it thrawns responsibility to save rayn. Furthermore, any time anyone brings up ANYTHING else, Toad's default response is 'dunno, havent read that" 4) Who really thought Toad would have been a decent bluesnipe? I do not. 4a)Perhaps he was trying to cover for the fact that gumshoe hero-docced amiko? (Complete conjecture) | ||
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On April 03 2014 06:40 Vivax wrote: Oh snap, didn't think of that, why do you call him cleared green when you caught up that notion though? It does make me feel less sure about his claim. Ignore kush for the moment. Your thoughts on Toad? | ||
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On April 03 2014 07:01 Vivax wrote: I prefer to focus on your thoughts, as in, if you think Toad is lynch-worthy then you shouldn't be asking me questions about him but rather trying to lynch him? Anyway, I wanna go over the bits you posted with you. ad 2) Can you point it out cause I couldn't find that accusation in Toad's filter. ad 3) If you read carefully you see it's not about thrawn just having a townread. Toad's main concern is that thrawn feels like saying first: "Hey, this guy is posting bullshit on a supertownie" and then he says "but I wouldn't lynch him cause of that because he went for strange trap play". Rehashing Toad's point, thrawn WOULD have considered a bad case on rayn lynch-worthy on its own, but he didn't scumread kita cause of his trap play. in Toad's own words: 2) On March 30 2014 15:44 Toadesstern wrote: well duh, that's not against the rules though and it's pretty common and happens all the time. The first part at least. The second part, who cares I've said so pregame anyways so you would have known. The second part yeah, but you don't know if I'm telling the truth, unless for some reason you do? That's the whole point of mafia, you shouldn't be able to tell if my reads are really my reads or if I'm making up some bullshit. It's literally the same thing, except that you apparently seem to know that I'm not lying about this? 3) Player K makes "bad" case on townread R. Thrawn is suspicious of K (reasonable). Thrawn thinks "bad" case is scummy. (reasonable). Thrawn assesses the relationship between "bad" and A, concludes A is not that scummy for "bad". Moves on to actual preferred lynch G. I don't see a huge scumread jumping out at me there. | ||
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On April 03 2014 08:02 Vivax wrote: This isn't even about you defending thrawn cause you actually can claim you aren't since you simply have shown why you disagree with Toad's case. But the point of it is that in all of this I don't see how you come to the conclusion that Toad could be scum. On April 03 2014 05:25 Djodref wrote: Could you tell me more about Toad ? I wasnt making a case, I was talking more about things I found interesting about Toad. Do you think I dont realize I didn't reach a conclusion? All of my points are pretty open-ended statements, more of a summary of things Toad has done that I maybe find scummy but didn't explicitly say that. | ||
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On April 03 2014 08:14 Vivax wrote: Toad doesn't have a vote. Or maybe kush stole his vote. All arguments I see as of now against him are 1. activity 2. he didn't push hopeless enough for your liking 3. some conclusion-less observations from hopeless which are more about his arguments on others rather than why he should be scum Until he gets in here and goes through my hermeneutic endless circle of being questioned to death until I'm satisfied I'm not scumreading him for that. 2. is pretty goddamn scummy if you ask me. | ||
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On April 03 2014 08:29 JarJarDrinks wrote: I'm gonna nuke you if you dont. empty threat | ||
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On April 01 2014 05:08 austinmcc wrote: The OP says everyone can request fake claims. You can request one and see what powers you are given. HAS NOBODY ELSE REQUESTED A FAKE CLAIM JUST FOR FUN? WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE DOING? GO GETCHER FAKE CLAIMS!!! If slam is a survivor, which we can't prove and he can't prove to us, and has a power which he can be forced to use in a pro-town way or can be confirmed by, which we don't know right now, then I believe he would have already said something about that. If people don't believe your crap, and you have a way to verify your crap, you don't keep doing this. You say "no guys, I can prove it. Ta da!" Your scenario is basically "What if slam can confirm he's not anti-town or not going to act anti-town, but ... hasn't noticed that." | ||
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Vivax, why is it okay for you to keep flipping the question when I ask you about Toad? Not EVERYTHING I do needs to push my agenda. I dont like cramming a case/reads down peoples throats. I think Toad is scummy. People think I am scummy. It doesnt matter that people are less retarded than we'd like to believe, logical fallacies will occur. If I phrase a statement without implying a conclusion it forces the reader to try to determine what my point is and also whether that point is more relevant to a scum or town mindset. | ||
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On April 03 2014 09:50 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's what I'm getting @ w/ my line of questioning w/ hope. The way he words it sounds like he's saying everyone already received fakeclaims.Well I'm blue and I only received my role. I was not given any fakeclaim. Here he again seems to hint that he already has a fakeclaim: I think he read this from the OP and assumed everyone was given fakeclaims to start the game. I dont hint that I have one, I hint that I knew THIS is exactly where you were going with this line of questioning. It is completely transparent, but trying to claim I dont have a fakeclaim after saying "everyone has fakeclaims" looks stupid, so I had to run "no comment". I should have said "everyone has access to fakeclaims", but I typed that in the moment to point out why rayn's claim is in no way a reliable piece of information. | ||
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On April 03 2014 10:04 kitaman27 wrote: oh god, gumshoe XD yeah i laffed, then just smh for a while. At least it semi confirms kush | ||
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On April 03 2014 10:15 kitaman27 wrote: Last thing for tonight....what's Vivax's alignment hopeless? I'm biased...I havent been reading him critically because he's been a pain in my ass in recent memory. If you want me to OMGUS him, I can do that but I dont think it'd be productive. | ||
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rayn flipped town and wanted us to mass claim, so he thought it was a good idea. It worked out in handslaps PYP, though that was semi-open. btw that was shortly after Day2 started, not the lynch. And for the record I'm still FOR a mass claim if we can agree to it. Re: Shrink Claim In my defense, everyone else just kind of brushed it off and went along about their business the same as me. No one panicked and yelled OMG Y U LYNCH DOCTOR?! and I wanted rayn lynched...why would I draw attention to that fact? In hindsight yes this may make me look scummier but I had a scumread and felt that pointing out that the claim could be fake would cause people to scrutinize it and possibly swap over to gumshoe or slam, contrary to my preference. Re: response to kita -> kush 1-I think you mean Vivax 2-I found Vivax to be asking a lot of questions and refusing to put up his own discussion. Since the game opened I feel like he's been casually painting me scum, but someone (maybe you or thrawn) said that the fact that he's doing stuff instead of not doing stuff probably points to him being town, so I kind of disregarded him. However i think his questions are really open-ended and basically kush hits things pretty square with this conversation: On April 03 2014 10:57 Vivax wrote: Cause the question like it is doesn't say anything about what kita thinks or what he wants to achieve with it? On April 03 2014 11:01 kushm4sta wrote: ah.. kind of like all of your questions that you have been constantly asking this entire game It feels like Vivax is just quoting stuff and asking different people "and how does that make you feel?" like he's some glorified therapist. | ||
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On April 03 2014 13:18 austinmcc wrote: For the main thing there above, here is the timing so people don't have to go hunting. Hopeless's last post before claim Claim, 37 minutes to lynch Hopeless saw the claim 8 min ago, saw the discussion about the master, has been reading thread/is around. We are ~30 minutes to lynch here. Hopeless's next post. 1:10 later, 40 minutes after lynch Uhh April Fools? Thats 25:10 later | ||
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I'm going to bed, 'night. | ||
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On April 04 2014 01:55 kitaman27 wrote: Hope, what led you to this vote compared to when I asked last night? Opportunistic posturing. I'm not trying to avoid responsibility for my vote but I am not all that confident that I am able to read Vivax, I'm mostly sheeping thread sentiment. People seem less inclined to vote Toad which means its between me/Vivax. My choice would be to lynch Toad if I get the chance. | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:17 Vivax wrote: No, he never asks you a question but thinks you are worthy of today's lynch. Okay well... On April 04 2014 02:09 Amiko wrote: Right now my vote preference is hopeless1der. I will read vivax's defense more when I get back. If I still think hopeless is the best lynch I will try to convince when I get back @hopeless1der If you are in thread please comment on kita's case so I have more of you to read ##vote: hopeless1der something is amiss here | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:19 kitaman27 wrote: <3 Nope, working on one though. What about Vivax is scummy to you? Or are you simply voting him over Toad for self-survival? Mostly survival. I didn't like the way Vivax was assaulting me with questions and seeming completely oblivious to how my explanations could come from town. It didnt feel like he was trying to reconsider, he was trying to bury me or catch me slip up. However, I'm concerned about Amiko now despite gumshoes save. Whatever, I'd still prefer to lynch Toad. here: ##Unvote: Vivax ##Vote: Toadesstern | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:52 Amiko wrote: still workposting so short @hope I was talking about kita's case on vivax, You voted vivax but I want comments- do you agree with everything kita said? comments on other people's comments on kita's case? etc Also @all hope's comment here feels really bad to me. The first half of my post (which he omitted, so he must have read) is talking about kita's case on Vivax, it should be obvious that's the case I am referring to It clearly was NOT obvious to me when you end the post by voting me for what I assumed to be related to kita's (at the time non-existent) case on me. I'll comment on kita's case momentarily. | ||
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Vivax during the day spent a lot of time discussing me/Toad to no avail and otherwise tossed around a bunch of questions that again didnt seem to lead anywhere. Also on the vote-steal notion, it doesnt make sense to me because Toad knew immediately something was up with his vote. It adds to the stack of things I think are relatively useless/not constructive from Vivax. My opinion on Vivax being largely not useful stem mostly from my conversations with him where I thought I was being mostly reasonable and direct with my responses and he got nothing out of those discussions and kept tunnelling. Why not do that D1? | ||
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Sorry forgot about this. I was hoping someone would call me out for the reasons you stated because they'd likely be town, knowing blues didnt get fakeclaims to start with. I havent reviewed the thread at that point yet to see if anyone might have been thinking that. | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:24 Djodref wrote: This one is my favorite. It's just after Vivax realized the claim was fake. It's very spontaneous and I don't imagine scum write something like this at a moment like that. As scum, I think it was a WTF moment, not a LOL moment. Also, as I said in my post, Vivax was trying to offer kush a way-out. Vivax cares, Vivax is likely to be town. Alternatively Vivax wants to know if he should convert Kush? | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:25 kitaman27 wrote: This post really seems like he's made his mind up ahead of time. He literally posts the kind of behavior that he would expect from me as town, gets ninja'd by me completely replicating the behavior he is saying he would expect, and then votes me anyways moments later. This is the same vein that I am talking about when I comment on my own conversations with Vivax. He already knows the answer and is looking for pieces to fit into his solution. | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:42 kitaman27 wrote: When I was talking about wanting a claim from slam, even for the sake of finding out what a fake claim could possibly sound like, austin pointed out that anyone could request one if they wanted it. With this knowledge in the thread, it really doesn't make sense that hope would decide to use the fakeclaim knowledge as a way to identify town like he is suggesting. Sure it is, blues didnt start with claims. Not that I know whether scum did =\ | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:43 Djodref wrote: @ Hopeless Why did you start to vote Vivax with opportunistic posturing ? You didn't believe in Toad lynch ? I didnt think Toad would get lynched. At this point I'm probaly gonna get lynched. | ||
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On April 04 2014 04:48 Djodref wrote: Are you town ? Do you have anything to claim ? I'm going to vote you. This is your last chance to change my mind. Here's the real reason i wanted ot lynch vivax: I'm a modified watcher A targetted B Vivax Targetted B I know the role name of A. I do not actually know who A is or who A targetted. | ||
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You win with the Town." Rose targetted "someone". Vivax also targetted "someone". This is all i know | ||
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On April 04 2014 05:12 Vivax wrote: Ok I thought you knew who we targetted :s. And how did you get the conclusion that I'm mafia from that information? I didnt, it was completely selfish information mongering. I was hoping to get you to claim who you targetted if you were liable to be lynched. | ||
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Yes. | ||
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JJD very likely town based on role speculation. Kush very likely town based on reaction to gumshoe. No hesitation, immediate shot. I feel scum would have tried to go to their QT all "wtf he claimed my role do I kill him?" before pulling the trigger. Thrawn good activity Vivax I dunno Toad is a useless pile of garbage this game. Kita seems like he's working towards a town-oriented goal. BIRDGOD goes #squak, very town. no idea about djo or poof. | ||
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On April 04 2014 05:23 Djodref wrote: Well, if you both targeted the same person, Hopeless i somehow cleared, if you didn't, we can lynch him without remorse. But it's Vivax decision at the end. Hopeless, did you hint somewhere in your filter that your power sucked ? no, but i kind of sort of breadcrumbed my "check?" here On April 02 2014 07:29 Hopeless1der wrote: You dont have any recommendations do you? Because at the moment* I would just lynch kita to avenge rayn. *I am only now starting to open filters, let alone read them. Its worthless tbh, I could quote myself asking anyone a question and say oh yeah totes breadcrumb | ||
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On April 04 2014 05:27 JarJarDrinks wrote: Is that so when U see our targets are different u can say vivax is scum? receipt of nuke + non-cc'd claim of Rose who I as town am stalking. The only way my role is useful is if you are also town. Why would both mafia target the same player ever? That seems foolish. (this all assumes my role/names work as i've stated) | ||
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If good, chances that we can 1:1 scum with it? | ||
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I'd prefer Toad tbh... | ||
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On April 04 2014 05:47 Djodref wrote: ok thanks Now it's JJD turn. I'm ready to switch on Hopeless, and I hope everyone is ready as well !!! stop getting ninja'd | ||
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On April 04 2014 05:56 kitaman27 wrote: Wait, so how does Vivax targeting austin make him town? it doesnt. nor does it make him scum. | ||
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On April 04 2014 12:47 Amiko wrote: To be clearer about the above post- It sounds to me like if Rose targets someone, hopeless1der only should get informed about the people who visited the target, but doesn't see Rose. This makes sense because this limitation (not seeing Rose) means he doesn't know if there is a Rose in the game or if he was given a random player. However, he claims that Rose targeted someone. JJD claimed Rose...JJD confirmed that his target matched Vivax's target (austinmcc). What is the discrepancy here Amiko? I'm headed to bed, I'll check back in the morning. | ||
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Vivax visited your target. what the fuck is coagulation doing in this thread. I hope thats kush accidentally on his account from OMGUShydra | ||
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On April 04 2014 22:12 JarJarDrinks wrote: Are you scum w/ hopeless? Where's the 3rd choice of JJD is rose and hopeless is scum? And how in the blue hell can you even have that 2nd option there? You're saying that as scum: - I pushed and pushed a town hopeless all day - He was close to being lynched and forced to claim - I immediately fakeclaim rose, which not only could get countered by the real rose, but clears hopeless, the townie that I've been pushing all day This is really something you think is possible? Its so stupid I cant even call Amiko scum for it | ||
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Because an unknown entity appears to be playing the game. Why should I NOT freak out about it? | ||
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Vivax visited your target. | ||
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On April 04 2014 22:03 Hopeless1der wrote: what the fuck is coagulation doing in this thread. I hope thats kush accidentally on his account from OMGUShydra ^its in there, if not explicit that it was my check. As to assuming Rose is here...My fucking role TELLS me that my check is dependent on Rose being in the game. My role is beyond retarded if Rose isnt around to begin with, it is just a clusterfuck of ridiculous nightactions if I have no way to confirm my findings with from a second source. | ||
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On April 05 2014 00:49 JarJarDrinks wrote: No, the roleclaim you posted specifically says that your check is NOT dependent on Rose being in the game. And I'm telling you that if Rose isnt in the game then my role is useless. In what universe does knowing that a player visited a RANDOM target help town? I DONT KNOW WHO WAS VISITED. There is no confirmation, there is no way to stop the person I saw from lying through their teeth and I WOULDNT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. My role REQUIRES Rose to be in the game for it to be even REMOTELY useful. | ||
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Austinmcc visited your target. | ||
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Austin says he visited Kita I watched Kita(assumed) and saw austin show up...What the fucking fuckity fuck is wrong with you people? | ||
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Night Action Resolution Order: - Roleblock - Jailkeeper [Simultaneous?] or [Order of precedence?] | ||
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I realized that I messed up your result last night lol. No one visited your target | ||
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On April 05 2014 07:11 Vivax wrote: If anyone's role didn't work tonight except for me and kita then hopeless is scum cause I jailed austin and hence he wouldn't have showed up otherwise. Do I need to start spoonfeeding this stuff to people? I realized that I messed up your result last night lol. NIGHT ACTION RESULTS FOR NIGHT 2: No one visited your target i.e. Vivax has apparently been successful in jailing austin. | ||
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I'm fine with a check on kita/me | ||
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On April 05 2014 09:15 Vivax wrote: I mean, he has me, Toad and hopeless as scumreads. When he comes back he votes kita when that vote doesn't have any effect, doesn't try to move people from Toad to him. And most of all he says he's not convinced that all roles have to be blue but that's the reason he doesn't want to lynch his former scumread. I really like what Vivax posted on tehpoofter, especially since his suspicions are on what I believe (atm) to be 3 townies (Vivax, me, Toad) I'd also like to note that Kita isnt mentioned at all in that first quote which is fishy all on its own. | ||
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I need to give thrawn a proper reread, but my PoE for scum are poof thrawn kush. | ||
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On April 07 2014 07:44 thrawn2112 wrote: i dont see how hopeless can have a fake role. didn't he announce his results before other people confirmed them? so the actual role mechanics have to be true right? and i'm still not seeing how his role can be useful to mafia Someone argued I could be like scum rolecop or something with my role? Was that kita? | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:38 Amiko wrote: @Hopeless1der: Can you think of situations where your role benefits town? I think there are some. Can you think of situations where your role benefits mafia? I think there are some. My role, as claimed, is not useful to mafia. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:52 Vivax wrote: You catch any blue that visits the same target as Rose. And I know nothing about them, just that they exist. Have you seen the number of blues flipped? Technically you're right, but based on the flips that "knowledge" isn't particularly valuable. | ||
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On April 05 2014 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote: Like ffs, you'd think you guys would know how to read, you've been playing forum mafia for how long now? On April 05 2014 07:19 Hopeless1der wrote: Do I need to start spoonfeeding this stuff to people? NIGHT ACTION RESULTS FOR NIGHT 2: i.e. Vivax has apparently been successful in jailing austin. ------------------ On April 05 2014 06:31 Hopeless1der wrote: Formal Request: Night Action Resolution Order: - Roleblock - Jailkeeper [Simultaneous?] or [Order of precedence?] On April 05 2014 06:34 Xatalos wrote: Uh... sorry, I think the order of operations is secret. But it follows common sense. On April 05 2014 06:39 Crossfire99 wrote: It's secret On April 06 2014 01:05 Crossfire99 wrote: What happens in PM land is between the hosts and the person we are PMing. <s>I clearly never once attempted to improve the transparency of my check.</s> | ||
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[Big post from Kita] -> This post was a summary/list post of roles claimed, it wasnt a particularly impressive post....but kush responds: On April 06 2014 00:48 kushm4sta wrote: that's not a good sign It takes kush more than an hour to come back after a mod posts On April 06 2014 01:05 Crossfire99 wrote: What happens in PM land is between the hosts and the person we are PMing. for him to report his claim On April 06 2014 02:37 kushm4sta wrote: i assumed its instant because of how its written and it is. check is town. I don't like how muted this was, I dont like how quick and simple kush seemed to "know" kita was town before he had his check, I dont like how it took so long for him to report his "instant" check. | ||
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On April 07 2014 12:27 Vivax wrote: So if kita is scum and TP is scum and you don't know of any alternatives, why TP first? Because...nuking tehpoofter twice is funny? | ||
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On April 07 2014 13:13 Amiko wrote: @Hopeless When did you first think kush might be scum? When he was being reasonable talking to rayn. Why did you find Austin's case more compelling than Kita's given your game-long town read of kush? BIRDGOD Why not defend kush since you had been townreading him? Because he was scum. Also are you in a zombie army? No | ||
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On April 07 2014 13:45 Vivax wrote: Precisely, that's roughly 30 minutes after that post. He uses a connection based argument that involves a supposed null read. That read had nothing to do with my read on you, it had to do with my perceived read on JJD and what a scum-JJD might do vs what a town-JJD might do. Scum JJD lies to get one of us lynched. Town JJD does not. | ||
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On April 07 2014 13:59 Amiko wrote: @hopeless I know Vivax answered these for you but I would actually appreciate if you can chime in on them. I did just very poorly formatted, fine I'll fix it. On April 07 2014 13:51 Hopeless1der wrote: When he was being reasonable talking to rayn. BIRDGOD Because he was scum. No | ||
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On April 07 2014 14:01 Amiko wrote: Also @hopeless Sorry if we are overwhelming you a bit, but what is this post trying to say? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21139682 Reading it, it felt like you were scumreading kush but I didn't understand why since he had already flipped. I don't see it as particularly scummy so this is a lesser priority for me, but I want to make sure I didn't miss a point you were trying to make. Reasons to be suspicious of kita: the entire "claim" and use of the scumometer was a planned scum event to fool the town. (possibly) | ||
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On April 07 2014 13:58 Vivax wrote: You say he's town cause he doesn't want to lynch me. That implies scum would want to lynch me. That implies you knew or at the very least knew I'm town, after a post where you call me null. So no, the read didn't have nothing to do with your read on me. Next you say TP is scum for not mentioning kita after you said he was working towards a town objective. I didn't intend to infer anything about your alignment, I wanted to infer that scum love chaos and pitting town against itself, which is achieved by calling my check/your actions into question, something that JJD did NOT do, hence town points. | ||
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This is the only thing I saw on a quick glance through kush's filter. | ||
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If I were a betting man, I'd say kush knew poof was town when he said "makes no sense". Thats as much thought as i've put into that. I'll give things a better look tonight after kita flips and whatnot. | ||
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On April 08 2014 04:47 Amiko wrote: Not happy that tehpoofter isn't in thread - I'll try to look through interactions myself regarding him tomorrow. On the other hand, feeling relatively good about the kita nuke since he hasn't chimed in. We'll see. My preference is that tomorrow hopeless claims what he saw before anyone confirms their night actions. Since according to his role, as claimed,  the watched person should be randomly selected, this information has a fair chance of being useless. But, if he does see anyone I'd like to have that information handy since maybe it'll be inconsistent with other actions and help us get potential scum down to two or three people.Stay safe and stay town :3 I'm fine with reporting my claim asap | ||
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On April 09 2014 01:04 Amiko wrote: @hopeless1der If original scum is likely between you and thrawn, is there anything specific in thrawn's filter that you feel most suggests that thrawn being scum? I promise to do this within the next 12 hours. If I dont, lynch me without remorse. | ||
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On April 09 2014 04:14 austinmcc wrote: Can you just give me like....rough sketch of where everyone is? You are currently of the belief that Poofter is le mafia? Or someone but unsure? I still have it PoE'd to thrawn and poof, poof is winning in my mind atm. You are too BIRDGOD, Amiko addresses almost everything, gives thoughts and is basically completely transparent. To me one of them has to be original scum for things to make sense. Otherwise, I expect Kita would have vigg'd N1, so yeah...poof or thrawn. | ||
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On April 09 2014 06:23 thrawn2112 wrote: what does lxiii have to do with anything? we didn't try to abuse it, i tried to abuse it, you weren't even reading the qt qhen it happened. and you didn't get upset in there, you got angry. ->From LXIII Fuck it, Yolo ##Vote: iamperfection | ||
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##unvote ##Vote: thrawn2112 | ||
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hey hopeless, really go crazy on my "u mad" post remember the town tell I'm looking for is sadness or depression, not anger. town hopeless gets sad in these situations | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On March 31 2014 16:52 thrawn2112 wrote: idk. i think tehpoofter is more involved in the thread than a lot of people. he's definitely more engaged than he was in that last game. i'm not getting the same 'newbie town' vibe that I instantly got from him last game but traces of it are still there. like i think he's town, but he might just be more confident now and that's interfering with my noob reading abilities. and you think he is scum because his read of you is based on poor meta reasoning? lol would you expect him to have a good understanding of meta? On April 05 2014 11:39 thrawn2112 wrote: also, I can no longer feel that special "tehpoofter" tingly feeling that lets me know he is 100% townie On April 06 2014 05:33 thrawn2112 wrote: except that I love poofter's D1 and don't like him too much since On April 08 2014 15:21 thrawn2112 wrote: Yes, tehpoofter's D1 looks incredibly townie. I think there's no possible way for him to be original scum. I played with him in a game right before this, and I immediately recognized him as town based off his first post. His D1 in this game felt close enough to that other game for me to give him the same read. Not only that, but his activity in this game was like 3x his activity in the other game. He's a new player and I don't think many new players are capable of having a more active scum game than town game. I haven't looked much into hopeless filter yet but that's just because of how strongly I feel about tehpoofter's D1. BTW. There is no way that I'm original mafia and I make this post during N1: note that I was the first person to notice and call out the extra vote mechanics. i talked about the extra vote for much of N1, talking about how scummy it was and how the person who did it needs to claim, etc. do you really think I would do that if I were kush's scummate? I know that when he finally announced that the extra vote was his, I townread him for it even after saying the extra voter is probably mafia. But I think my reasons for doing so were justified, and if you read the post where that happens it should come across as pretty honest because I was speaking very directly about the weird state of my read on kush. Stuff about Kush's double vote + fake scumometer + Show Spoiler + Initial reaction to Kush's doublevote claim On April 02 2014 09:53 thrawn2112 wrote: -> Kush town for doublevote claimso my read on kush is kinda fucked 1) going into N1 i was more interested in hearing from him. i town read him early, but he hadn't done much so I needed to see him post more. AND since I was townreading so many other people and felt more confident about those reads, I thought he muight just be scum because of PoE 2) i thought that the hidden vote mechanic must come from mafia 3) kush claims the hidden vote 4) now I think kush is town again lol it was the way he claimed it that made me think he's town. he wasn't defensive about it and didn't seem to understand that people would find him suspicious for using a hidden vote to lynch town rayn. if he was scum he probably would have not claimed it or the claim would have been at least a bit defensive Later on On April 05 2014 05:56 thrawn2112 wrote: i'm most interested in hearing kush's full claim. in fact I think i will be policy voting him until he posts it, becasue I don't think the sneaky extra D1 vote sistuation has been resolved adequately On April 05 2014 10:43 thrawn2112 wrote: why didn't you inform town that your vote was going to count twice on D1? note that its like 3 days later before thrawn wants to question Kush for his double vote...but he's already given kush a townread so....what? Conspiracy theory: Since Kush faked his check, this quote looks bad On April 05 2014 10:58 thrawn2112 wrote: i would prefer a check only on one of kita/me, especially if it's an insta-check After Kush fakes his check: On April 06 2014 10:09 thrawn2112 wrote: Seems like a pointless question when the thread consensus was calling for a check on kita.kush why did yu check kita after townreading him all game Also, please click on this for context: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21138271 Discussion around this post gives me pause. Thrawn initially says "lol" at the notion that Kush faked his claim, then seems to come around to kita being scum, then wants to nuke poofter in a very nonchalant, non-committal way. This kind of brings me back to his read on poofter: Currently, poof looks scummier than me, but thrawn's day1 read of poof outweighs everything else. Why was this not the case when the nuke was up for targeting? Why is it reasonable that for Day2 its reasonable to consider poof for scum but Day3 poof's Day1 play trumps everything else? On April 06 2014 15:50 thrawn2112 wrote: i dont remember if i've played with mafia hopeless. i do remember playing with town hopwless, and most of the time I am very very certain about him being mafia at some point in the game until I realize that it's hopeless to scum read hopeless for the kinds of things that town hopeless is capable of saying so it's based on past experience. i basically just gave up and decided that scummy hopeless doesn't equal a scum hopeless... which is a lesson i've had to learn over and over again. and I was sheeping rayn a little Maybe I jogged his memory, but thrawn was pretty quick to recall the details of how he told me that I got angry in LXIII and had to coach me (in the qt that I wasnt even reading at the time) that I should look sadder This post made me sketchy on thrawn, and only recently do I have some proof that he was (kind of?) lying. | ||
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you'd like that wouldnt you. If I find out you are scum, "excuses" are my new policy lynch. | ||
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On April 10 2014 04:32 Tehpoofter wrote: Of course I'd like it if you surrendered as mafia lol. And I'm really sick but that shouldn't affect your read either way. Yes it should because the assumption is that you got sick and thus your ability to play went to hell. If you were not sick, you'd be held to a much higher standard but now we all feel slightly guilty for calling you scummy for inactivity when you have a pretty good excuse. | ||
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On April 10 2014 05:13 Amiko wrote: Feeling ok about this and unlikely to change. Somewhat reassuring that hopeless trusts austin to win the game after austin votes for him (if hopeless sees austin as mis-reading him, I would think hopeless would have less confidence). @Hopeless1der: I think only question I have: you feel pretty certain scum is more likely to be thrawn than tehpoofter? I know I asked you to focus on thrawn the other day, I'm just wondering if you feel that way independently. (If you are scum it's okay if you ignore this; I don't think my vote will move unless someone claims scum, but it's a comment I'd like to have if you flip town and we do end up with another day) You're literally all voting for me. Am I supposed to assume scum will inevitably win because you read me incorrectly? What the hell. Before your exercise (and my flaring up at thrawn about LXIII) I would have said thrawn is almost confirmed town off activity alone, but hadn't considered content. I feel better about thrawn being scum than poof, especially how poof calls us dicks for considering nuking him feels jovial and not at all scummy. | ||
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On April 10 2014 07:51 Vivax wrote: Kush plays well when there's nothing to bus D1  This was a big part of my kush read day1. Turns out there was no one to link to him. So much for that bright idea. | ||
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On April 10 2014 08:47 Vivax wrote: Totally not bragging, but I smelled austin's conversion from miles away in obs qt. As for hopeless it'd be nice if he could work out a way to make himself readable as town. Idk but his style keeps being unreadable to me. I guess the day I'm a mafia god is the day I can read him. I'm usually the first one to be self-depreciating about my play, but my activity for this game was really shitty even for me. I've been working on getting my mom a new car and selling her old one, which finally got done this weekend but then also catastrophe as for the conversion mechanics, i feel like it would have been super useful for the OP to have a little bit more in terms of what scum were capable of. Conversion+KP+rolecop+ literally unkillable? thats just a little bit stacked for kush. I know town was also really heavy on power roles, but general suspicion of lies, fake claims, godfather or bus drive mechanics...I think scum's toolbox was stronger than towns. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On April 10 2014 09:50 kitaman27 wrote: Well the conversion and shot can't be factional on night two so the mafia team has to deal with up to three offensive roleblocks and 3 protective roles just to get their shot through. On top of that, they need to ensure they don't get caught by the cop, tracker, watcher, inventor, vig, or nuker. It's a minor miracle that I survived until night three by avoiding the jarjar check, d3 nuke, and conversion roleblock. If I were to make a few small tweaks to the setup, I would remove kush's immortality at the beginning of the game. Essentially, that's a waste of time for everyone since it's literally impossible to pull off a scum lynch. Essentially I went after rayn because I had a town read on nearly the entire game so he was one of the few players left. Instead, I think that kush should have had the ability to immediately convert a player in the event that he was lynched. I would also probably replace the role cop with a roleblocker to deal with mass claims a bit better and maybe remove the inventor. I thought hope's role was actually pretty cool and I liked the mechanic dealing with becoming immune to roles after one use. Holding off on amiko's nuke until d3 was a nice touch. Overall, real cool setup considering how difficult it must have been to pull off. I wouldn't necessarily remove kush's immune but I would inform town of the ability, or like you suggest, change it such that conversion executes simultaneously with the lynch, as that is reminicent of "im a cop you idiot" as far as mechanics go. Way more manageable from a setup speculation standpoint and I feel would have given me (personally) a much better grasp on what I needed to consider as reasonable for scum. @Austin: #sqwuakt That is all. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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