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On March 20 2014 00:36 Holyflare wrote:
-.- -.- -.- -.- -.- -.- it's NOTHING to do with that "case" because those posts were troll posts, he's referencing the scooby doo game that YOU were in and I was town but using another game where I did the same thing as scum as his point to use against me without mentioning i did it as town in really small! Nuh uh. Earlier was the time to say "those were troll posts."
I'm also not buying that you start the game trolling, choose two people to troll, and they both just so happen to be mafia and you're gonna tunnel tunnel tunnel.
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rayn i'll get into this more in a moment. I think you're overvaluing whether someone knows the meaning of a made up term "scooby dooed", and I think there were pictures and crap of scooby doo that someone could see without actually reading the thread. I'll look back over that.
but you're discounting other reasons to think someone is scum, like bad trolling or making a bunch of reads based on bad bad bad logic
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On March 20 2014 00:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The point about Scooby doo is that there is no fucking reason for Hopeless to bring up the Cultured argument in thread in the first place if he does not think it makes Holyflare mafia and the argument is either forged as fuck or totally incorrect and Hopeless is the laziest guy on the planet because he does not even bother to to check the validity of his arguments. Neither of the options makes any sense from town perspective!! I don't understand this.
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On March 20 2014 01:04 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:00 Palmar wrote:On March 20 2014 00:56 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 00:48 Palmar wrote:On March 20 2014 00:46 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 00:43 Giggletummy wrote:On March 20 2014 00:36 Holyflare wrote:
-.- -.- -.- -.- -.- -.- it's NOTHING to do with that "case" because those posts were troll posts, he's referencing the scooby doo game that YOU were in and I was town but using another game where I did the same thing as scum as his point to use against me without mentioning i did it as town in really small! Nuh uh. Earlier was the time to say "those were troll posts." I'm also not buying that you start the game trolling, choose two people to troll, and they both just so happen to be mafia and you're gonna tunnel tunnel tunnel. um no it really wasn't? You think I make a legitimate case on someone that says "if im scum i'll kill coag" "if i'm town i'll kill coag" without trolling for reactions? You think I don't know that telling someone to sheep me because I bus/or am right is trolling? You can quite clearly see in my posts that I jump to serious as soon as he mentions scooby doo He mentioned scoopy doo before you made the "sheep me cause I bus or right" post. yes but I didn't read into it until he mentioned it as a reason for calling me scum based on the game that didn't include scooby dooOn March 19 2014 07:08 Holyflare wrote:How does that apply here at all? In that regard I am thus bussing DP because that's what I do in my scum games. Therefore the case is in fact not horrible and you should sheep it. If I am town, I am generally correct and thus in fact you should sheep it. Either way, painting me in a negative light based on 1 game (whereas dp has stated anti policy things in numerous games, check the DB and past game filters) but still does it here. Furthermore, his overdefensive nature was seen very heavily in vengeful where he went full blow retard overreaction. This game is a much toned down version of that but still defensive because he doesn't like being critiqued. It is easy to find scum DP and I have done it. Follow me. Oh scummy number 2. God I hate talking about all these games I have no clue about. If I understand you correctly, the point still stands, the "sheep cause right/bus" is after he mentioned that game and thus you had already gone serious mode when you posted that, and thus you can't claim it's a joke. you think someone says sheep me because i'm bussing or right as a legitimate "case"? because that's what giggletummy is saying i'm doing You're wrong on the turning point of why I think you're mafia. The early trolling can be a townie trying to draw reactions and get reads or it can be someone just trying to appear like they're contributing and doing that. It's the followup that matters, and figuring out which you were doing.
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On March 20 2014 01:16 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:11 Giggletummy wrote:On March 20 2014 01:04 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 01:00 Palmar wrote:On March 20 2014 00:56 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 00:48 Palmar wrote:On March 20 2014 00:46 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 00:43 Giggletummy wrote:On March 20 2014 00:36 Holyflare wrote:
-.- -.- -.- -.- -.- -.- it's NOTHING to do with that "case" because those posts were troll posts, he's referencing the scooby doo game that YOU were in and I was town but using another game where I did the same thing as scum as his point to use against me without mentioning i did it as town in really small! Nuh uh. Earlier was the time to say "those were troll posts." I'm also not buying that you start the game trolling, choose two people to troll, and they both just so happen to be mafia and you're gonna tunnel tunnel tunnel. um no it really wasn't? You think I make a legitimate case on someone that says "if im scum i'll kill coag" "if i'm town i'll kill coag" without trolling for reactions? You think I don't know that telling someone to sheep me because I bus/or am right is trolling? You can quite clearly see in my posts that I jump to serious as soon as he mentions scooby doo He mentioned scoopy doo before you made the "sheep me cause I bus or right" post. yes but I didn't read into it until he mentioned it as a reason for calling me scum based on the game that didn't include scooby dooOn March 19 2014 07:08 Holyflare wrote:How does that apply here at all? In that regard I am thus bussing DP because that's what I do in my scum games. Therefore the case is in fact not horrible and you should sheep it. If I am town, I am generally correct and thus in fact you should sheep it. Either way, painting me in a negative light based on 1 game (whereas dp has stated anti policy things in numerous games, check the DB and past game filters) but still does it here. Furthermore, his overdefensive nature was seen very heavily in vengeful where he went full blow retard overreaction. This game is a much toned down version of that but still defensive because he doesn't like being critiqued. It is easy to find scum DP and I have done it. Follow me. Oh scummy number 2. God I hate talking about all these games I have no clue about. If I understand you correctly, the point still stands, the "sheep cause right/bus" is after he mentioned that game and thus you had already gone serious mode when you posted that, and thus you can't claim it's a joke. you think someone says sheep me because i'm bussing or right as a legitimate "case"? because that's what giggletummy is saying i'm doing You're wrong on the turning point of why I think you're mafia. The early trolling can be a townie trying to draw reactions and get reads or it can be someone just trying to appear like they're contributing and doing that. It's the followup that matters, and figuring out which you were doing. well i'm not because the entirety of your point on me on hopeless is about the poop soup "case" on him about bussing? when in fact the real case was that he mentioned a game where I did something as town but only used the game where I did it as scum as a reason for calling me scum you have also failed to answer my questions, why is your gameplay so much more different here than it is in really small mafia? you had to ask so many questions and be pushed so much to vote or be convinced on someone that was very scummy and even then you were asking them questions. Right off the bat here you are making accusations and putting down votes without doing any of the inquisitive things you were doing in really small mafia I think that the entirety of this scooby doo thing is clogging the thread and is not helpful to anyone. People who continue to argue about it should be lynched or shot.
As far as meta, that game was instant majority where 4 votes got someone lynched. There are other reasons, but the two setups are wildly different.
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On March 19 2014 22:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 22:04 Holyflare wrote:
Other than that i think koshi pretty town Well this is pretty fucking annoying because i think this too. I have no idea what am i missing here because the Coag situation actually does affect to my reads. I don't think anyone should have had a townread on him and if they say "because he posted so much" is not a reliable tell considering they were something like 5-headed hydra. I have no idea why someone thought Coag was town at that point and if that's the case and it was reasonable to assume he was town please someone tell me why. coag as mafia not only doesn't post but he doesn't even interact with the thread. There's some old game where he replaces in as mafia and essentially just made 1-2 posts a day, sometimes claiming not to know when lynch is or what day it is. coag posting a bunch and getting incensed is unlike that and more likely town coag. am i the only person who didn't know early on that coag was actually a boatload of people on his account?
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On March 20 2014 01:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:36 Giggletummy wrote:On March 19 2014 22:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 19 2014 22:04 Holyflare wrote:
Other than that i think koshi pretty town Well this is pretty fucking annoying because i think this too. I have no idea what am i missing here because the Coag situation actually does affect to my reads. I don't think anyone should have had a townread on him and if they say "because he posted so much" is not a reliable tell considering they were something like 5-headed hydra. I have no idea why someone thought Coag was town at that point and if that's the case and it was reasonable to assume he was town please someone tell me why. coag as mafia not only doesn't post but he doesn't even interact with the thread. There's some old game where he replaces in as mafia and essentially just made 1-2 posts a day, sometimes claiming not to know when lynch is or what day it is. coag posting a bunch and getting incensed is unlike that and more likely town coag. am i the only person who didn't know early on that coag was actually a boatload of people on his account? So you did not read the thread at all or you are making shit up now. You are saying you had a scumread on me based on my interactions with Coag but this post clearly shows you have not even read my posts or the thread at all because there are multiple times i / other people reference to Coag as multiple people and even ask which head of the hydra was posting. Stop misrepresenting crap and stop believing that people can only be thinking one or two things. yeah, i'm absolutely saying you looked bad for just arguing and arguing with coag. it didn't go anywhere, it didn't help the thread, and it just spammed useless pages. just like all this scooby doo stuff.
as far as coag, every reference i saw was to coag or kush. people asking which they were talking to. there's a big difference between coag being "a hydra" and asking "which head was posting" versus "hi i am coag and kush and also some other people that never got revealed"
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On March 20 2014 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How can you say someone "looks bad for their interactions with someone else" when you have not even read the interactions or the thread??
I can quote 20 posts where it's really clear Coag is hydra for anyone who has read the thread.
am i the only person who didn't know early on that coag was actually a boatload of people on his account?
there are a bunch of people who go "that post must have come from kush" or kush saying "yes this is me." If you point out 20 posts where coag says "i am a ton of people and you don't know us" before my comments on you and coag, be my guest.
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On March 20 2014 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:Fuck you, you literally just said this: Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:36 Giggletummy wrote:On March 19 2014 22:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 19 2014 22:04 Holyflare wrote:
Other than that i think koshi pretty town Well this is pretty fucking annoying because i think this too. I have no idea what am i missing here because the Coag situation actually does affect to my reads. I don't think anyone should have had a townread on him and if they say "because he posted so much" is not a reliable tell considering they were something like 5-headed hydra. I have no idea why someone thought Coag was town at that point and if that's the case and it was reasonable to assume he was town please someone tell me why. coag as mafia not only doesn't post but he doesn't even interact with the thread. There's some old game where he replaces in as mafia and essentially just made 1-2 posts a day, sometimes claiming not to know when lynch is or what day it is. coag posting a bunch and getting incensed is unlike that and more likely town coag. am i the only person who didn't know early on that coag was actually a boatload of people on his account? It doesn't mean shit if there is one or a thousand people with him on the account. The fact that there is even one other person makes your argument invalid. it absolutely does mean something. kush signs some posts, coag signs some posts by calling out kush, when the hydra is just kush and coag, coag is identifiable as both coag and "not-kush". when there are way more people, "not-kush" doesn't matter and also
On March 20 2014 01:47 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:46 Giggletummy wrote:On March 20 2014 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How can you say someone "looks bad for their interactions with someone else" when you have not even read the interactions or the thread??
I can quote 20 posts where it's really clear Coag is hydra for anyone who has read the thread. am i the only person who didn't know early on that coag was actually a boatload of people on his account? there are a bunch of people who go "that post must have come from kush" or kush saying "yes this is me." If you point out 20 posts where coag says "i am a ton of people and you don't know us" before my comments on you and coag, be my guest. talking about futile conversations, goes on to talk about even more futile conversations! who do you actually think is mafia? if you disregard me because I am actually town and other people actually see that, what does that leave you with? not actually futile. coag's identity is actually wrapped up in rayn's reads.
On March 20 2014 01:50 Palmar wrote:
Giggle, why did you not post even a summary or a hint of your thoughts on holyflare before leaving the thread last night? All you left was one quote from HF you "liked" I'm not even sure if that's meant to say you think it was a legit or a sarcastic "like". planned on actually posting my case. Not gonna go, "next time on giggletummy posts a case, we took a look at holyflare's reasoning in post 458 and you'll be shocked at what we discovered!"
On March 20 2014 01:55 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hopeless who do you think is mafia? No good answer atm. I wouldnt lynch Holy but I dont like him much. Giggles: Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 08:58 Giggletummy wrote:On March 19 2014 08:56 Koshi wrote:On March 19 2014 08:47 Giggletummy wrote:On March 19 2014 08:44 Koshi wrote:On March 19 2014 08:37 DarthPunk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 19 2014 08:32 Koshi wrote:
The red reply thing? That was good.
3 people were saying rayn case was good. He had to reply.
rayn kept up pressure.
Coag kept replying. With more caps.
I don't see overdefensive. Really. The all caps thing was not over defensive? But you agreed that I was over defensive. On March 19 2014 07:18 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 07:13 DarthPunk wrote:On March 19 2014 07:12 Koshi wrote:On March 19 2014 07:11 DarthPunk wrote:On March 19 2014 07:10 Koshi wrote:
If anybody is interested I am following Holyflare atm. What does that mean? I think you are scummy scum. Why? You need to provide reasoning or your position is meaningless. I liked what Kush said. On March 19 2014 07:19 Koshi wrote:
pointing out overdefensive post. Could be Coag. But it looks like Kush. For this post: On March 19 2014 07:00 DarthPunk wrote:
You realise that policy thing was like over a year ago HF? I said I was going to policy vote coag before the game started and I did.
Further I don't think it is a shit policy. I literally would prefer the game to not have a 10 plus member Hydra in it.
I would think you were scum but you, you know, did the same thing last game as town so yeah. I want to know how on earth you though I was scummy/over defensive for that post, but Coag ragingin all caps was NOT over defensive. That seems like a very arbitrary decision for one thing to be over defensive and another far more defensive thing to not be. I didn't like your early posting. I didn't like the non committal stuff. I didn't like the defensive attitude of other posts. I was reading the thread and I was actually looking at your posts strangely and then people put pressure on you and I simply +1 on everything. because I felt that needed to be done and they had a point. Out of everybody I really believe you had a really weak-ass start and I gave you a scummy point. The point is already put down and cannot be erased. -Koshi his judgement- replying for reasons Also what is this? It is me noting something for reasons. Will discuss later, want to talk to Flare I want this followup followup is in Flare case. if flare's response was like that, "my read on DP is that he did this thing, got a scummy point, he's scum, who cares what he's done since," then I would have found it townie. it would show that his bad reasoning early on was likely fishing for reactions because the reaction really mattered to him.
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On March 21 2014 00:38 Holyflare wrote:
Djod, hopeless, giggle, vivax, VE, HF, ________ mafia
I'm fine with vivax. What you guys are missing is a particular reason for him to lie, nobody just lies without an agenda. Vivax calls me mafia early, then decides to backtrack and call me town. I think mafia was comfortable with the number of votes on me and me being so absent, figured I was an ezpz lynch, and wanted to slip off me. I have not looked for other players that did this same thing, but it's worth checking into.
Also, I altered HF's post above. Here is why.
VE is mafia.
(1) I checked into the votes on me, will post more about that in a sec. VE's was the one I liked least.
VE votes me without having read my filter - + Show Spoiler +On March 20 2014 04:00 VisceraEyes wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jkuWEdg.png) On March 20 2014 04:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's not even in the game. Look, I'm not at computer right now, but when I get to one I'll take a look at GT's filter and give MY OWN reasoning for wanting to lynch him. I'm down with the lynch because I'm presuming you and rayn are town and you both feel strongly and there was some weirdness I don't recall right now earlier on so let's do it. I have NOT read his filter, so I'll do that and then give an actual read on him in a bit. Fair? Not a fan of this. I don't have a giant filter. He's read rayn and palmar and other players to know that he thinks they are town, or just the thread in general, but he hasn't looked at my filter, yet votes me.
The specific reasoning he provides is misrepresenting my posts in a really scummy light. On March 20 2014 05:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
The reason I want to lynch Giggletummy is that he claims that the whole scooby-doo nonsense is not productive to the thread, but the fact of the matter is that it had to do with something about /this/ game - primarily Holyflare's read on Hopeless - so the point actually /is/ relevant to this game. That he's calling it "not productive" indicates to me that he's either scum trying to buy credibility later if/when Hopeless flips town or scum trying to deflect off of a scumbuddy in this situation. There's a possibility that he's just tunneled in on Holyflare if he's town, but judging from his posts to and about Holyflare I don't see this as possible. Hell in his case on Holyflare he never even says he thinks Holyflare is scum - just does a play by play of the whole Holy/DP scenario and gives a non-conclusion.
I think Giggletummy is the lynch today guys, and I like both rayn and Palmar who are both on GT for different reasons. My reason is the best reason though and everyone should vote for GT. There was a big argument in thread about whether I can call something useless and still use it as part of a read, but that misses the real point.
Nobody seems to have gone back and read my filter and those pages. Here is my actual post:On March 20 2014 01:28 Giggletummy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:16 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 01:11 Giggletummy wrote:On March 20 2014 01:04 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 01:00 Palmar wrote:On March 20 2014 00:56 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 00:48 Palmar wrote:On March 20 2014 00:46 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 00:43 Giggletummy wrote:On March 20 2014 00:36 Holyflare wrote:
-.- -.- -.- -.- -.- -.- it's NOTHING to do with that "case" because those posts were troll posts, he's referencing the scooby doo game that YOU were in and I was town but using another game where I did the same thing as scum as his point to use against me without mentioning i did it as town in really small! Nuh uh. Earlier was the time to say "those were troll posts." I'm also not buying that you start the game trolling, choose two people to troll, and they both just so happen to be mafia and you're gonna tunnel tunnel tunnel. um no it really wasn't? You think I make a legitimate case on someone that says "if im scum i'll kill coag" "if i'm town i'll kill coag" without trolling for reactions? You think I don't know that telling someone to sheep me because I bus/or am right is trolling? You can quite clearly see in my posts that I jump to serious as soon as he mentions scooby doo He mentioned scoopy doo before you made the "sheep me cause I bus or right" post. yes but I didn't read into it until he mentioned it as a reason for calling me scum based on the game that didn't include scooby dooOn March 19 2014 07:08 Holyflare wrote:How does that apply here at all? In that regard I am thus bussing DP because that's what I do in my scum games. Therefore the case is in fact not horrible and you should sheep it. If I am town, I am generally correct and thus in fact you should sheep it. Either way, painting me in a negative light based on 1 game (whereas dp has stated anti policy things in numerous games, check the DB and past game filters) but still does it here. Furthermore, his overdefensive nature was seen very heavily in vengeful where he went full blow retard overreaction. This game is a much toned down version of that but still defensive because he doesn't like being critiqued. It is easy to find scum DP and I have done it. Follow me. Oh scummy number 2. God I hate talking about all these games I have no clue about. If I understand you correctly, the point still stands, the "sheep cause right/bus" is after he mentioned that game and thus you had already gone serious mode when you posted that, and thus you can't claim it's a joke. you think someone says sheep me because i'm bussing or right as a legitimate "case"? because that's what giggletummy is saying i'm doing You're wrong on the turning point of why I think you're mafia. The early trolling can be a townie trying to draw reactions and get reads or it can be someone just trying to appear like they're contributing and doing that. It's the followup that matters, and figuring out which you were doing. well i'm not because the entirety of your point on me on hopeless is about the poop soup "case" on him about bussing? when in fact the real case was that he mentioned a game where I did something as town but only used the game where I did it as scum as a reason for calling me scum you have also failed to answer my questions, why is your gameplay so much more different here than it is in really small mafia? you had to ask so many questions and be pushed so much to vote or be convinced on someone that was very scummy and even then you were asking them questions. Right off the bat here you are making accusations and putting down votes without doing any of the inquisitive things you were doing in really small mafia I think that the entirety of this scooby doo thing is clogging the thread and is not helpful to anyone. People who continue to argue about it should be lynched or shot. As far as meta, that game was instant majority where 4 votes got someone lynched. There are other reasons, but the two setups are wildly different. Here is the part referencedI think that the entirety of this scooby doo thing is clogging the thread and is not helpful to anyone. People who continue to argue about it should be lynched or shot. That post is on pg 63, "the entirety of this scooby doo thing" and why is it bad? Clogging the thread, not helpful. Read pages 61, 62, 63, and further if you'd like. This is when things really picked up with hopeless/HF/rayn and who had read what game, when things were said, etc.
If you believe those pages are productive to the thread, easy to read, led to solid reads on people, then we are not reading the same thread. Not even the people posting were speaking the same language, half the problems were because of misunderstandings or expectations about who read what scooby doo sections and what the term "scooby doo" means.
Go read those pages. Read my post. Read VE's reasoning.
VE was happy to sheep earlier and vote me without reading. But when asked for specific reasoning as to the sheeping, who he agreed with, he gave his own reasoning that super misrepresents my post there. Those pages of scooby doo stuff were not productive, they were incredibly confusing for all parties.
Anyone who can make perfect sense of 61-63, be my guest.
(2) This is associative, and only worthwhile if Vivax flips mafia
Search VE's filter for vivax. VE gets asked by rayn about tehpoofter. Responds here, first mention of Vivax - + Show Spoiler +On March 20 2014 03:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm going to give you my thoughts on his entire filter because he has one and I can.
His intro post is odd because on the one hand it gives "content" which he then needs to explain if asked, but on the other hand it's content that is easily dismissable because A) it's so early and no one has done anything and B) the reasoning he gives is so nebulous and largely non-alignment-indicative that it can pretty much just be taken for what it is - an MSPaint drawing in a forum game. But he /does/ give reasoning so meh.
The weird part is where he states explicitly that he doesn't have a read on me, that he's pinging for a reaction and that you can ignore it. Like, okay fine. So he was pinging me.
But I have to wonder. What is he expecting from me that I must be scum because I'm not already tearing it up. After all, I'm among the first people in the thread in spite of my early disappearance. I was the first to Paint a Painting. THAT early in the game, I'd say most of that stuff is more town-indicative than scum-indicative.
Anyway moving on, he then interjects into the HF-DP discussion to ask HF if DP's read makes him scum, in a way that seems like he's on the DP-town side of things. This is...fine to me. He doesn't ask in a way that makes you think HF looks worse, he feels like he thinks HF and DP are BOTH town, which I sort of agree with.
And he then pockets Vivax hard. Not sure if intentional, but Vivax has said some townie things and I agree that he looks town, so he may have just been overstating it or whatever.
Ultimately I think Banks is PROOOOBABLY town. I just agree with a couple of the things he's saying in what he's not saying, and in spite of him consistently calling me scum I think he's probably town.
Then we get VE's little list:On March 20 2014 03:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
Just so we're clear, I'm going AFK again for a while but will return in several hours.
Here's where I stand right now:
Hopeless1der, Giggletummy, Djodref, thrawn <----------- would maybe lynch possibly.
HF, DP, Vivax, Palmar, rayn, tehpoofter, Oats, Koshi <----------- don't even ask - won't do it today.
and when asked about VivaxOn March 20 2014 03:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
His thought process in his intro post seemed fairly logical, and to come from a townie. He wanted explanations based on his observation of a situation he described, explained why he thought it was more likely to come from scum and that was it. He also seems to have followed up with a read after he got what he was after.
Vivax is on VE's don't even ask list, and when questioned as to why, he knows exactly what Vivax has posted. This is at the same time he drops a vote on me without reading my filter.
VE is intimately familiar with Vivax's posting, but has not read the (short) filter of the guy he votes for. Why is VE so concerned with Vivax's filter? Because scumbuddies
VE is oddly townie on Vivax, he's straight up do-not-ask, but can't provide a specific anything as to why in either explanation.
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HF is still mafia (Yes. Mafia. I don't vote for people and write cases on people that I don't think are mafia)
Besides the early stuff that nobody likes, some more specific items. Holyflare loves comparisons to past games, meta, catching people because they aren't playing like they did here or there or whatever. Read his filter here, read his filters elsewhere, he's a big big big fan of comparing games.
He uses that to slip in awful comparisons. One of the major things he was in my arse about early was really small mafia. For those who didn't play in or read really small mafia, there were seven players. In an instant lynch game. 2 mafia, 4 votes = dead on D1.
Flare is really concerned about me writing a case on him and voting him, despite being more hesitant there.On March 20 2014 00:06 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 09:55 Holyflare wrote:
Also giggletummy, you agree with part of my post and then vote me? What are you doing? Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 10:25 Holyflare wrote:Giggletummy most probably: In really small mafia: Hist filterdespite the amount of stuff I was saying and pushing and the amount of crap that was going on, he was really hesitant to put down votes without questioning people (in really small mafia) in this game he has pretty much done nothing, agreed with part of my post on DP and then voted me despite agreeing with me...? Without asking any questions at all. Completely different play. for these reasons On March 20 2014 00:15 Holyflare wrote:
Why did you vote me and build a case without questioning me intensively like you did to other people in really small mafia? What's with the drastic change in playstyle? On March 20 2014 01:16 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:11 Giggletummy wrote:On March 20 2014 01:04 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 01:00 Palmar wrote:On March 20 2014 00:56 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 00:48 Palmar wrote:On March 20 2014 00:46 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 00:43 Giggletummy wrote:On March 20 2014 00:36 Holyflare wrote:
-.- -.- -.- -.- -.- -.- it's NOTHING to do with that "case" because those posts were troll posts, he's referencing the scooby doo game that YOU were in and I was town but using another game where I did the same thing as scum as his point to use against me without mentioning i did it as town in really small! Nuh uh. Earlier was the time to say "those were troll posts." I'm also not buying that you start the game trolling, choose two people to troll, and they both just so happen to be mafia and you're gonna tunnel tunnel tunnel. um no it really wasn't? You think I make a legitimate case on someone that says "if im scum i'll kill coag" "if i'm town i'll kill coag" without trolling for reactions? You think I don't know that telling someone to sheep me because I bus/or am right is trolling? You can quite clearly see in my posts that I jump to serious as soon as he mentions scooby doo He mentioned scoopy doo before you made the "sheep me cause I bus or right" post. yes but I didn't read into it until he mentioned it as a reason for calling me scum based on the game that didn't include scooby dooOn March 19 2014 07:08 Holyflare wrote:How does that apply here at all? In that regard I am thus bussing DP because that's what I do in my scum games. Therefore the case is in fact not horrible and you should sheep it. If I am town, I am generally correct and thus in fact you should sheep it. Either way, painting me in a negative light based on 1 game (whereas dp has stated anti policy things in numerous games, check the DB and past game filters) but still does it here. Furthermore, his overdefensive nature was seen very heavily in vengeful where he went full blow retard overreaction. This game is a much toned down version of that but still defensive because he doesn't like being critiqued. It is easy to find scum DP and I have done it. Follow me. Oh scummy number 2. God I hate talking about all these games I have no clue about. If I understand you correctly, the point still stands, the "sheep cause right/bus" is after he mentioned that game and thus you had already gone serious mode when you posted that, and thus you can't claim it's a joke. you think someone says sheep me because i'm bussing or right as a legitimate "case"? because that's what giggletummy is saying i'm doing You're wrong on the turning point of why I think you're mafia. The early trolling can be a townie trying to draw reactions and get reads or it can be someone just trying to appear like they're contributing and doing that. It's the followup that matters, and figuring out which you were doing. well i'm not because the entirety of your point on me on hopeless is about the poop soup "case" on him about bussing? when in fact the real case was that he mentioned a game where I did something as town but only used the game where I did it as scum as a reason for calling me scum you have also failed to answer my questions, why is your gameplay so much more different here than it is in really small mafia? you had to ask so many questions and be pushed so much to vote or be convinced on someone that was very scummy and even then you were asking them questions. Right off the bat here you are making accusations and putting down votes without doing any of the inquisitive things you were doing in really small mafia I answered this, but want to push it a little harder. rayn may not want to be a teacher, but I'll stand at the blackboard and ask the class, "Class, why would someone be more hesitant about cases/votes in a 7 man instant lynch mini than in a larger non-instant game?"
Well garsh teacher, maybe because those two styles of games are entirely different. Maybe votes mean more in an instant lynch game, especially a tiny one. Maybe the comparison is quite flawed, because the differences are easily explained by setup differences.
Again associative, but HF also just slipped during this Vivax stuff. Not "no why does this mean anything", but a really specific post he made.
On March 20 2014 23:16 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 23:14 DarthPunk wrote:On March 20 2014 23:13 Holyflare wrote:On March 20 2014 23:08 Holyflare wrote:
He has thepoofter as scum for being a confirmed liar to him and that was a 100% scum read but he isn't voting him because the afk scum tell that he has on the guy that posted the same logic he used on me was obviously stronger than 100% to then speedy unvote because page numbers didn't match up If rayn was correct which I see no reason to doubt at the time, he slipped. why would I not vote for him lol?| HOW IS IT A SLIP WHEN A TOWN DID THE SAME THING IN TITANIC 2 NOT TO MENTION 60 IS 40 PAGES IN NOT TO MENTION YOU ARE SCUM Look children, a mafia post!
(1) "How is it a slip when a town did the same thing in titanic 2"
read that. Read it read it read it. How is lying about timings scummy when one time a town did the same thing? HF knows better than this, 100%. Everyone does. Sometimes townies slip, lie, do dumb things, get lynched. But more often than not, when someone gets caught lying in a read, or lies about their reasoning, it's because they're mafia. You lynch most liars because most of the time, lying serves mafia more than town, they're more likely to lie, blah blah blah.
Mixed in with the rest of HF's response is this. How is lying about your reasoning behind something a mafia trait when here's this one instance of a townie doing the same. If we didn't lynch anyone for things that a single townie had done ever, we'd never lynch anyone.
This was an off-the-cuff post, not well thought out, and it shows that HF is trying to use terrible logic when things go awry today for mafia (if vivax mafia).
(2) "Not to mention 60 is 40 pages in"
This means nothing, and is just pure speculation about what someone meant by the number 40.
(3) "not to mention you are scum"
Followed an hour later by DP now being town.
Mafia are most likely to slip up when shenanigans happen or some giant bomb gets dropped in thread. HF slipped up here, not by just half-defending vivax, but by doing it entirely wrong. Here's a 100% empty post, with a bad comparison to a single past game (a townie can lie so don't lynch for lying when there's not a townie reason to lie), some nonsense about what 40 maybe means, and then (and no, this doesn't really matter, but for the sake of neatness I like that this whole post is invalid) a continued tunnel of DP that then gets reversed.
It's very, very likely that HF slipped up here. Which means it's very very likely that Vivax is actually mafia, even if the timing stuff weren't very very damning.
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Actually, screw the associative stuff with HF. Cuz he is actually mafia. If vivax is town, it's still all about timing and reactions. Something big happens in thread, and HF is the guy who responds incorrectly, not because he disagrees with people and doesn't see why the lying = scummy here, but because of the specific points he's bringing up that aren't applicable or are just poorly reasoned.
As scumHF townVivax, scumHF could still be surprised that all of a sudden thread is jumping on vivax, while HF knows vivax is town. So he does one of those scummy little half-defenses, because he's caught off guard and knows the guy is town.
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On March 21 2014 01:40 Holyflare wrote:
Um what? If it's a slip then he is town because i say "a town did this in titanic 2" so your point is redundant unless you imply i am doing that but insinuating he is scum by saying a townie did this in titanic 2 so why would my scum partner do it here? Which is completely wifomy.
It's weird because this is a titanic game abd exactly the same thing happened in the last titanic game that is why people being hasty and accepting Rayn's point before fact checking was weird especially as there are instances in this game where rayn has been wrong on wording and misread.
If rayn agreed with my point on you why are you not applying the same logic and calling rayn scum too because he agreed with the same point. If in fact you think rayn is town then by definition his agreeing with that point means that townies agree. It's not even an actual point on why i am scum it's just... Holyflare pointed something about me out! Aha! First red, vivax's alignment is actually irrelevant, realized that. What's important is your reaction, which was off, and also the fact that you're a lover of comparisons to past games, specific things, but your comparison here is just air. A townie did this thing once. Great. That says nothing, has no bearing on what someone else's alignment may be, and fails to mention that a whole lot of scum, more scum than townies, also have lied about things.
Second red, no. You and rayn are different players. It's both a thing specific to you because you make so many comparisons and are slipping in these bad ones as well, and also rayn is being townrayn. Lying to alakaslam in order to see how alakaslam reacts, and then quickly explaining the lie and why he did it and what he learned, is exactly townrayn. Him agreeing with your bad comparison, liking your bad comparison, makes him wrong. But his actions this game make him town overall. Yours don't.
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On March 21 2014 01:41 Holyflare wrote:
The point* is referring to your play in really small.
Also in regards to ve, i agreed with him about vivax's early game i thought it was towny, as did palmar as did a few others. Why is it only ve that takes the scum biscuit for that? You have been reading the game and posting. Palmar has been reading the game and actually posting a lot for Palmar.
VE has not been reading the game in full. He specifically states he hasn't read my filter when voting for me. And he provides 0 specifics of what he likes or dislikes.
Plus the entire other bit that doesn't rely on Vivax's flip. Do you believe that all the scooby doo stuff was clear and that everyone followed along? Or do you think it actually did clog the thread and make a couple pages hard to read?
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On March 21 2014 01:50 Holyflare wrote:
I have like 15 pages of filter and your scum read hasn't evolved on me at all, you've just picked out 1 new instance from the events that just happened. So you've missed out 13 pages of filter and content. Yes, I called you out for doing something particularly scummy.
Are all of your posts particularly scummy? No. But when you screw up, you screw up.
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On March 21 2014 01:55 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 01:54 Giggletummy wrote:On March 21 2014 01:50 Holyflare wrote:
I have like 15 pages of filter and your scum read hasn't evolved on me at all, you've just picked out 1 new instance from the events that just happened. So you've missed out 13 pages of filter and content. Yes, I called you out for doing something particularly scummy. Are all of your posts particularly scummy? No. But when you screw up, you screw up. You just said "it doesn't really prove vivax's alignment" which means it's wifom which means that what o said isn't scummy by nature... Lol Yup. He's fantastically likely to be scum for lying like this.
But as you just noted, sometimes townies lie and do ridiculous things. That doesn't mean vivax is town, that means that lying for no discernible reason is like 95/5 scummy.
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HF, how about instead of just flinging accusations, you comment on VE. I assume you will continue to say that you yourself aren't scum, but how about VE?
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On March 21 2014 02:05 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 01:59 Giggletummy wrote:
HF, how about instead of just flinging accusations, you comment on VE. I assume you will continue to say that you yourself aren't scum, but how about VE? Flinging accusations lol? You JUST made a case on why I'm scum which was terrible, full of wifom abd showed you hadn't really updated your read on me since your last thread entry. I do not know about ve's alignment, i agreed with his vivax point that his opening looked towny and i agreed on his point about you and you are doing it again. I am your scum read and you tried to get discussion about your scum read dropped and then had 0 more discussion about your scum read but then wasted time discussing about coag with rayn (your town read) who you called out for misrepresentation but never scum No. Read pages 61-63. Read stuff like this:On March 20 2014 00:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Now here is what Hopeless says at the start of the game about Holyflare: Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 06:58 Hopeless1der wrote:
That's not very scoobydoo...I'd rather lynch holy based on that casework. Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 07:02 Hopeless1der wrote:On March 19 2014 07:00 DarthPunk wrote:
You realise that policy thing was like over a year ago HF? I said I was going to policy vote coag before the game started and I did.
Further I don't think it is a shit policy. I literally would prefer the game to not have a 10 plus member Hydra in it.
I would think you were scum but you, you know, did the same thing last game as town so yeah. when was this...stupid and terrible holyflare is scum Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 09:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On March 19 2014 09:43 Palmar wrote:On March 19 2014 09:35 Holyflare wrote:
First and foremost, these 3 things do not go together. Palmar likes DP's post, thinks it's good logic (wut?) and then states later that it had nothing to do with rayns alignment, it was an observation from DP that he liked. He still sticks by this despite me saying that this is something rayn does as either alignment and DP SHOULD know that. It was super weird to point out from DP and even more weird for Palmar to like despite everything that had already happened. Not to mention, DP further calls that post a "joke" but Palmar still likes it despite him admitting it said nothing of value.
You pointing out rayn does this as either alignment is completely irrelevant, I already said it wasn't alignment indicative which is essentially the same thing. Remember that story I told earlier about refusing to lynch a townie based on a post 5 minutes into the game? The post's contents were "lolol". There was literally nothing else in the post. There is no connection between "Palmar likes a post" and "Palmar thinks this post provides something of value". If I thought DP had a good point, I'd have said so. All I said was that I liked the post, it looked like something written by a townie. The "solid logic" is a tounge in cheek post. why are you so serious HF? he's either buddying (scummy) or inferring things about your posts that aren't there (possibly scummy). whats your game history like with HF? Now Hopeless thinks Holyflare is mafia. What are the possible reasons for thinking this based on his posts: - Bad meta-case on DarthPunk (which was a joke)
- His behavior matches with Cultured where he made a mini-game and bussed his teammate based on it (why else he would make the post about Cultured game?)
- Post about Palmar that is bad logic
Based on Hopeless posting there is no other reason why he should think Holyflare is mafia or he is not telling us everything. Now this is what he says later on: Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 10:39 Hopeless1der wrote:
for the sake of transparency, I did not read the game holy is talking about. I know that he "caught" his scumbuddy off of "scooby doo" and completely fooled rayn and the rest of town in cultured. In that game it was both true and a moderately reliable tell that he used. This game he did not have that in his push on either DP or me. Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 11:13 Hopeless1der wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 26 2014 10:26 suki wrote:Someone tell me what HolyFlare is doing. In the meantime: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1qmRs4h.png) so you are saying this was the post you "scoobydoo'd" suki with in culture? I dont know what scooby doo means, i inferred that it simply meant caught a scummer. At any rate, all this results in is that Really Small (i think, whatever game you caught GGTemplar in referred to below) and Cultured both show you using this "method". There was a reason for it, and afaik it came down to On February 26 2014 21:52 Holyflare wrote:On February 26 2014 21:48 WaveofShadow wrote:
Phoneposting:
So HF suki was your scoobydoo read? Can you go into a little detail?
Mocsta I'm not sure how you get that HF is provoking you. I've seen him provoke people and that isn't it.
Also re:Mocsta's flipping reads-list
Who is more likely to either forget or flip flop on reads with little to no reasoning?
I can say right now as scum I had airtight reads throughout, justification where I needed it and I kept track of who I had my 'reads' on.
I definitely need words with some people today---figuring out suki seems especially key.
Also I might lynch JJD.
Well in really small mafia I did the scooby doo thing and the way I caught GGTemplar was from his joining in with the mini game while questioning what the hell was going on and perpetuating that I was clogging up the thread. Suki did a similar start to this but didn't perpetuate it, hence why I wanted to let her post more to see if she would. Either way, her posting style was quite evident in her town games and I haven't seen it here yet but she's promised to deliver more later so I can only wait and see. My initial comments were that your case on DP hinged on him /outing due to hydras then policying hydras (i.e. bullshit pregame stuff). Its stupid and terrible and by no means should anyone have considered it a scumtell. Now look at the blue, red and green part of the posting history of Hopeless: - In the blue part he clearly references to the games where Holyflare has used a mini-game.
- In the red part he says he has not in fact read those games closely (which can't be true because he directly references to Scooby Doo which was the original mini game Holyflare created as town, here)
- In the green part he contradicts himself by saying he does not know what Scooby Doo means. That cannot possibly be true because again, in this very part, he directly references to the game (Really Small mafia) Holyflare did it. He also contradicts the blue part because in the blue part he clearly implies Holyflare is mafia based on a mini game he did as scum. But he has done that as town too and Hopeless does not address this at all until here.
TLDR;- The blue-red-green part is an obvious contradiction and there is something that does not make sense. Most likely the blue part is to try making someone look bad with using only partial information (only referencing to scumgame and not looking the whole picture) while knowing (green proves that) something is not alignment indicative.
- Other reasons for calling Holyflare mafia are not good as stated before. The meta-case on DarthPunk was a joke and Hopeless does not follow up on this in any way when Holyflare answers him. The Palmar post is a stretch because Holyflare is not inferring anything, at least Hopeless never points anything concrete out. he just says Holyflare does something without explaining where.
- I still stand behind my statement that you can't say "rayn is likely town" unless you have a read on me and therefore i conclude Hopeless made a baseless read on me, did not give any real reasoning and when thrawn questioned him about it he could not answer and instead he just changed his story because he did not have real answers or thought process.
- There is nothing else he has done in this game besides given some reads that are worth nothing because there is no reasoning behind them.
And that's why i think Hopeless is mafia. On March 20 2014 00:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The point about Scooby doo is that there is no fucking reason for Hopeless to bring up the Cultured argument in thread in the first place if he does not think it makes Holyflare mafia and the argument is either forged as fuck or totally incorrect and Hopeless is the laziest guy on the planet because he does not even bother to to check the validity of his arguments. Neither of the options makes any sense from town perspective!! On March 20 2014 01:03 Giggletummy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 00:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The point about Scooby doo is that there is no fucking reason for Hopeless to bring up the Cultured argument in thread in the first place if he does not think it makes Holyflare mafia and the argument is either forged as fuck or totally incorrect and Hopeless is the laziest guy on the planet because he does not even bother to to check the validity of his arguments. Neither of the options makes any sense from town perspective!! I don't understand this. On March 20 2014 01:04 Palmar wrote:
no one does. On March 20 2014 01:13 Holyflare wrote:
Ok hopeless. You didn't read really small mafia but you know what scooby dooing is, so how was that relevant to the "case" on dp? If you read cultured and knew the explanation for what scooby dooing meant then you know it was legitimate and worked in those games. So why mention "that's not a very scooby doo case" when it didn't apply to that case at all? You scum read me because I make "useless posts as scum" or whatever but then you claim that I'm scum for not making a scooby doo case? The only game you referenced was culture where I used scooby doo and got my gf lynched.
So how do those 2 things add up together? Either you wanted me to scooby doo on DP because it works and isn't useless but i didn't do that so you thought I was scum or you think in culture I posted useless things and therefore am scum because I was doing that here too? How can you try and determine my alignment from something that you only referenced me doing as scum that was based off of a town game? On March 20 2014 01:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holyflare eats bananas as town, Does anyone know if he does that as mafia too?
Yeah Holyflare eats apples as mafia and as town. On March 20 2014 01:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hmm i kinda get what Hopeless is saying here.
I still don't get the read on me, it just does not make any sense.
Everyone was talking past each other. You, rayn, and hopeless, the people posting, were all talking past each other. There were assumptions about what scooby doo means and who read what and hosted what and modded what and gave birth to which norse god, and it was generally painful to read because you guys didn't understand each other at all.
Me saying to lynch/shoot people who keep talking about scooby doo isn't trying to shut down discussion on you. It's trying to read the thread.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3lonp2z.png?1)
