Normal Mini Mafia: Episode I

On January 20 2014 09:15 kushm4sta wrote:


how about we be realistic about the uncertainty inherent in this game, put our egos aside, and go with the most protown course of action?

On January 20 2014 09:22 kushm4sta wrote:
rayn... read op maybe?
there is a difference between named vt and regular vt in this game.

You are claiming a pr of sorts without realizing it.

On January 20 2014 09:25 kushm4sta wrote:


Why is it dumb?? this is a conversation i wanted to have pregame btw but no one talked.

VE it's demonstrably a bad move for scum to fake claim named VT. No scum is ever going to fake claim named VT unless it's as some last second thing to save their ass for another day.

On January 20 2014 09:32 kushm4sta wrote:
I think the likelihood for our second lynch choice flipping scum is pretty close to our first choice.

Also if they are scum and they claim blue, they are just postponing their lynch.

On January 20 2014 10:01 VisceraEyes wrote:

Yeah I'm mostly indifferent to the matter. I can see the argument for it not being needed and it giving scum information, but I think it could help us in the future by 1) eliminating scum's ability to fake-claim it on the block and 2) forcing scum to decide now whether they want to fake-claim the role.

On January 20 2014 10:22 thrawn2112 wrote:
yeah kush is right, pretty close to confirmed that one of kush or thrawn is scum

On January 20 2014 10:47 thrawn2112 wrote:
rayn do you really think town kush would ever type this

...for using scum mindset to form opinion on boxer claim

On January 20 2014 22:32 kushm4sta wrote:
I'm pretty sure I can tone read thrawn. more inquisitive, less formal as town

On January 20 2014 22:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
There isn't much to them. After reading through I can at least say that he weakly agrees that I look bad (though I don't know why) and he believes the boxer claim and he thinks other boxers should not claim.

I wouldn't mind some elaboration on his issue with me.

On January 20 2014 17:32 bumatlarge wrote:
We'll, No one else should claim. One named VT doesn't actually tell us or the mafia anything. I have my doubts that Wile is lying unless he's being a very intentionally hard to understand smurf. "Chez" or no, it doesn't hurt that bad. Anyone voting for him for that reason is being awfully hasty.

On January 20 2014 18:23 bumatlarge wrote:
I'm assuming boxer means Named VT?

On January 20 2014 18:29 bumatlarge wrote:


The scum hunt is strong with this one. I'd like VE to explain his thought process on the first part, he seems to be changing his mind mid post, then it would make more sense as town.

On January 20 2014 18:33 bumatlarge wrote:

I disagree, the only reason you think it's reasonable is because he is holding back because he probably wrong about you. I'm just working out what I can remember from VE if he posts like this as town.

On January 20 2014 22:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't believe the claim. He said he doesn't think boxers should claim and immediately claims? He was either lying then or he is lying now... his play makes more sense if he is scum.

On January 20 2014 22:46 VisceraEyes wrote:

Dude he was absolutely against boxers claiming and claimed on TWO VOTES. After someone is on record saying we should NOT EVER lynch blue claims.

On January 20 2014 23:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ski I'm literally ignoring your posts friend. If you have an actual accusation I'll respond to that.

On January 20 2014 23:15 kushm4sta wrote:


you make a good point. That would be the most difficult scenario, as any one of them could technically be a fake claim. But there will probably be other factors in the game which will help us figure out the setup or some extreme townreads from some of the claims etc.

On January 20 2014 23:19 kushm4sta wrote:

because if they claim earlier in the game they won't know how to make it the most difficult scenario yet
BTW rayn this is the last time you bait me into talking about this. Save it for post game. IF you put me at l1 i might talk about it more if you want.

anyways
##unvote
##vote balla

On January 21 2014 02:02 JonnyLaw wrote:
rayn this is exactly how kush plays though.

What's telling you he's scum?

In no way is it "entirely false". Suki points out multiple lapses in VE's thought process. You can change your mind, but throwing phrases out like, "that's dumb" or "I'm indifferent" are strong blanket statements to lay down. Clearly VE is either rapidly changing his mind throughout his posts, giving us no indication of where it's going, or he is not thinking his posts through, which he shouldn't be doing as town. I say point out that VE is capable of doing this as town.

Interpretation is key. I clearly mean "I think VE is scum, and the only thing making me reconsider is if he actually posts like this as town." I have played quite a few games with VE, but they were a while ago. All in all, I think Rayn misconstrued what I said here, an possibly purposefully. Townies do do this with analysis, because they want to be right, especially if an ego is present, and interpretation is where alot of analyses hit speed bumps. I do think Rayn is scum here though.

On January 21 2014 02:37 bumatlarge wrote:


If you thought I was going to go back into another game I played with him and provide examples of this, I am sorry. It was a mental meta in the back of my head from ages past. I actually can't remember anything concrete, just a foggy notion that he can do this as town.

On January 21 2014 01:47 bumatlarge wrote:
You'd think I'd vote for him, BUT THERE IS ACTUALLY SOMEONE EVEN WORSE. VisceraEyes ladies and gentlemen!



Rayn's inane posting visibly having its effect on people. I'm allowed to be somewhat reserved in the first hour I enter the threa suki. And even then, if you read my posts, I am clearly not on the fence. The only thing holing me back from lynching VE is that I know he can be silly sometimes, but even afterwards, it perpetuates in all his posts even after the fact.



I'm assuming this is referencing rayn's post.

I have to restrain myself from calling this the worst post, because I've witnessed townies doing this. Rayn makes a post about me. All of it is wrong. VE in the most generic and assuming way possible, agrees with it. Again, I've seen a townie do this, and I want to be sure about this. I mean, VE might have just skimmed it an be reconsidering agreeing-




Alright, I can't ignore this blatant display of anti-town.

1. Blinly agrees with bad analysis. Maybe that's subjective, and I'm biased because it is against me. I'd make this point null.
2. Fails to support his own view, AND PROCEEDS TO ASK SOMEONE ELSES OPINION ON THAT. Looks like he wants to talk about it, but has no interest in actually doing that. Why not ask someone else to do it for you while doing nothing yourself? I don't even think VE planned it out that way, it was just instinct.
3. This asinine persistence to post about VT claims that have nothing to do with day 1. WHO CARES WHOS CLAIMING IT. It one of the most dead-end conversations I have ever seen. And it's WIFOM. Anyone can say it with 0 detriment, and I would have no opinion on it as of right now.

PSA: BUM IS A CLAIMED VT. THAT IS ALL, CONTINUE SKIMMING THIS BECAUSE I KNOW YOU AREN'T ACTUALLY READING THIS POST. YOU DUMB BASTARDS

##Vote VisceraEyes

On January 21 2014 03:25 suki wrote:


Because Rayn is tunneling him and twisting his words and I think it's unproductive.

On January 21 2014 03:18 suki wrote:
@Rayn
I agree that he's not making strong statements and that he seems to be overthinking the 'what if I'm wrong' part of his argument. However, I had a peek at bum's previous games and he plays the same sort of non-commital game as townie.

I think his case makes sense minus the wishy-washiness, and I agree with him that VE has been playing scummy (kush being second on my list).

On January 21 2014 03:31 bumatlarge wrote:
Do you have more on Kush rayn? If you have something more, I'd like to hear it. I find him difficult to read.

And I believe Barristan is the last person that needs to post. I'd suggest people start to vote now so we can see where we are at. I think there is enough content that people should be able to make some reasonable reads.

On January 21 2014 03:32 suki wrote:


- - -



Perhaps it's just a difference in interpretation, but you start grilling bumatlarge for being 'inconsistent' when I don't see one.

On January 21 2014 03:41 suki wrote:


I agreed that it was wishy-washy, but I disagree with your statement that his reads were inconsistent. I think his 1., 2., 3. points were clearly points towards a VE scum theory, wishy-washyness aside. You were making it sound like he was going back and forth without a clear reason and then just randomly voted against VE without providing evidence.

On January 21 2014 03:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Other than my last post I haven't trolled at all this game though. There was intention behind my posts. Apparently you're also not interested in finding out my alignment or trying to start conversation with me so I guess I'll just make my intention clear.
##vote Raynpelikoneet

On January 21 2014 03:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I'm calling you scum because you're not engaging me in conversation when you have had a myriad of possibilities to do so which I can explain only from a scum point of view. You don't want me to get a correct read on you.

On January 21 2014 03:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

So why don't you ask any questions to me? You seem completely uninterested in my alignment and are throwing down arbitrary barriers just to prevent a conversation from taking place, which points to you being scum.

On January 20 2014 09:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Hey guys.
I'm Mafia. What roles did you guys get?

On January 20 2014 09:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I was expecting a counterclaim. I'm very disappointed

On January 21 2014 02:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

---

What is different in these two scenarios?

On January 21 2014 02:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I don't understand why no one addressed my atrocious return into the thread.

On January 21 2014 04:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
No I'm not happy, because other than refusing to engage me in conversation you're now also attempting to destroy town atmosphere. I have found scum in you, and you are who I want to lynch.

On January 21 2014 04:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

It isn't, I put the ball in your court with the joke at the start and you refused to take it. I attempted to start the conversation that you were unwilling to partake in. The fact that you're making a massive problem out of it when asked displays your lack of a townie mindset. It shows your lack of interest in my alignment. The joke was intended to be a conversation starter and I don't believe that you're dumb enough that you didn't see that.

On January 21 2014 04:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

No one's directly attempted to start a conversation with me. I did with you and you knew that comment was meant for you.

On January 21 2014 04:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

It's not just that, it's also the way how you did joke with Thrawn and how you've responded to the rest of my posts since then. What's the last Mafia game you rolled scum in?

On January 21 2014 04:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Kush's plan was dumb and he stepped off it pretty quickly after pressure. Liked Suki pointing out his inconsistency with giving town reads then questioning others on giving it out. Suspicious.
VE has a good chance of being scum as well. His posts seem to mostly go with what's convenient rather than any real reasoning behind them. I think his vote on bum is really bad. Bum feels very townie to me. I don't think he'd go after both Rayn and VE in the same post if he were scum and antagonize them that badly.

I find it hilarious how both your points already counter one another. In the first you say you pointed out a mistake in Kush's reasoning so you can't both be scum, in the second you say a scum should lay into you.

On January 21 2014 04:59 VisceraEyes wrote:

Wait why does Artanis get thoughts on Bum but I don't? When I asked you "it depends on what he does next" but for artanis you're green-reading him? WTF?

On January 21 2014 06:37 kushm4sta wrote:
How much experience does zreapth have

On January 21 2014 06:39 kushm4sta wrote:
Is ! Not equal or equal?

On January 21 2014 03:46 zarepath wrote:
I am thinking VE is scummy based off of a few things:

1. Lots of early discussion about the two plans
+ Show Spoiler +

2. Immediate attack on Wiley for blue claiming
+ Show Spoiler +

3. Defensive tone

+ Show Spoiler +

4. Wishy-washy demeanor

+ Show Spoiler +

5. Wants others to discuss things, not himself

+ Show Spoiler +

6. "Giving up" on his Wiley scum read and switching to a more convenient target

+ Show Spoiler +

VE is scummy in tone, content, and voting patterns, and my top scum read now.

##Vote VisceraEyes

On January 21 2014 06:45 suki wrote:


Sheeping/agreeing with someone doesn't make anyone mafia, but VE has failed to contribute anything to the game aside from OMGUS and policy talk.

So VE is town in your eyes purely from a meta read.

On January 21 2014 06:45 suki wrote:
Sheeping/agreeing with someone doesn't make anyone mafia, but VE has failed to contribute anything to the game aside from OMGUS and policy talk.

So VE is town in your eyes purely from a meta read.

On January 21 2014 09:52 suki wrote:
......

I'm going to lay off VE for a bit. Pressuring him is going nowhere and I think he's defended well.

On January 21 2014 10:02 suki wrote:


"Because he (is) probably wrong about you"
VE is accusing WileE of being scum.
Bum thinks WileE is probably town.

-> VE is probably wrong about WileE being scum.

I don't think it's a slip.

If you assume that bum is mafia, then why would he add in 'probably'? To put it another way, if bum had instead said '... he is holding back because he is wrong about you.' that is what I would call a slip, because bum would have just given away the fact that he knows what WileE's alignment is.

On January 21 2014 10:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Rayn have a peek at Balla's filter and tell me what you think.

I think there's a distinct lack of anything productive. Almost a full page of filter, and not a single scumread. A few light +1's, but nothing that constitutes an actual opinion.

On January 21 2014 11:31 kushm4sta wrote:
nah i have looked. it's just after the scumslip i was like lolol this guys so scum and I didn't read as close after that

On January 20 2014 21:44 zarepath wrote:
I thought VE was talking about the two different plans, kush's "don't lynch anyone who claims blue" plan and the Boxer claim plan. I don't know what he was talking about with the "2 is pretty potent" quote, I have no idea what he's saying. But I didn't think he was inconsistent while reading him because he had two different opinions on two different plans.

On January 20 2014 21:48 zarepath wrote:
@Thrawn, VE's vote seemed premature to me because I didn't really see a super early blue claim as scummy, but not wholly unreasonable considering Wile WAS directly contradicting everything he had said earlier.

On January 20 2014 21:48 zarepath wrote:
@Thrawn, VE's vote seemed premature to me because I didn't really see a super early blue claim as scummy, but not wholly unreasonable considering Wile WAS directly contradicting everything he had said earlier.

This seemed like another very easy thing to do, but in his accusation he doesn't really explain why it's scummy, just that "it's all bad." It's easy to attack someone for being obviously contradictory without actually calling them scummy, and that's what he did.

I also dislike the sentationalism in this, "his little act," etc., especially in combination with a lack of explanation as to why this means he's scum. It reminds me of Mocsta scum from when I played with him a year ago.

On January 21 2014 12:06 thrawn2112 wrote:
Rayn why did you change your mind? Previously kush's post about the slip is what made you go from thinking he's super scum to town reading him.

On January 21 2014 12:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
you didn't really answer the question

but surely you have an opinion one way or the other?

On January 21 2014 12:16 thrawn2112 wrote:
I think this is the least effort you've ever town read me for...

why so sheepy? I know you don't think i'm better than you

On January 21 2014 12:24 thrawn2112 wrote:

he sheeped me the entire last phase of WC2 and let me lead town to it's death

On January 21 2014 12:31 thrawn2112 wrote:
rayn. if he is town that is not going to happen, why would you even think he'd agree to that after all the past game quotes you just pulled?

On January 21 2014 22:28 kushm4sta wrote:
That last post seems more honest than scummy

On January 21 2014 23:13 suki wrote:
Balla's early game as town is a lot more questioning and posturing and not really scum hunting. In his mafia game he locked onto a target early and stayed on him.

On January 21 2014 23:17 kushm4sta wrote:


I see what you are saying. You want him to say why each of these points make someone mafia?
But he is saying why it makes VE scum.

He is saying that these things he is doing are easy to do as scum. The traits he is pointing out are more commonly seen in scum.

On January 21 2014 23:43 kushm4sta wrote:
no im saying why your argument why he's scum isn't valid

On January 21 2014 23:48 suki wrote:


Balla questions people in both his scum and town games. He isn't questioning people in this game - I blame whatever is causing him to be less active.

In this game, he has a lot of policy talk and 'helpful' posts where he explains things, which in my mind is more of a townie Balla trait. He also goes on Crossfire who has minimal pressure on him at the moment, which is against your meta read of 'no real pushing of his own ideas'.

On January 21 2014 23:51 kushm4sta wrote:
rayn i quoted reasoning he gave why ve was scum.
he did give a lot of evidence, more than any other case. the problem is none of it was that strong. and his play has reflected that

On January 22 2014 00:08 suki wrote:


Right. Why indeed? I feel a scum Balla would be more inclined to scum hunt right away and post reads, while a town Balla is more likely to sit back and digest the thread before posting a case.

I'm not saying Balla's play is good by any means, what I'm saying is that I'd rather wait until he's contributed more before solidifying my read on him.

On January 22 2014 02:29 suki wrote:
This game is stupid because there's been so much tunneling, despite there being so much activity. It's like everyone decided 'hey lets just be anti-town and focus on one person and not comment on anything else'. Zarepath (on VE), Balla (on Crossfire), Bumatlarge (VE and maybe rayn), Artanis (rayn), Barristan (Zarepath), Thrawn (kush). Crossfire and WileE are ridiculously quiet as well. That's over half the players in the game.

On January 22 2014 02:35 Balla24 wrote:
Also lets be honest here, my activity on day1 most of the time last game was spent pressuring newbies who were scared to post into posting. There's no reason for me to do that here.

On January 22 2014 03:01 zarepath wrote:
Okay, again, two different things. suki's case was based off of not knowing the difference between when VE was talking about the two different plans.

That particular point in my case was a little bit tunneled, but the idea was that all of his opinions are tempered -- he's "KINDA okay," he's "mostly indifferent," he's "giving benefit of the doubt." When I said "wishy-washy" I think a better term would have been noncomittal or "meh."

Again, as I said earlier, this was digging a little deep and maybe I was subconsciously tunneling. But that argument is different than the one suki made (and I had corrected).

On January 22 2014 03:05 zarepath wrote:


We're not voting for an entire mafia team at once, we're voting for who we think is most likely mafia. It would be stupid to not think someone's mafia because they targeted the same guy as you once

On January 22 2014 03:22 suki wrote:
On the flip side I don't think scum zarepath would jump on bum either. If you're mafia why would you jump on the person who has the most heat on him? Especially for all those reasons that you stated why a 'town zarepath wouldnt go on bum'. There are plenty of other decent targets for a scum Zarepath to choose.

I also think Bum's retraction from VE is super scummy and don't fault Zarepath for thinking so as well.

I thought VE was talking about the two different plans, kush's "don't lynch anyone who claims blue" plan and the Boxer claim plan. I don't know what he was talking about with the "2 is pretty potent" quote, I have no idea what he's saying. But I didn't think he was inconsistent while reading him because he had two different opinions on two different plans.

Lots of early discussion about the two plans, wishy-washy demeanor, Wants others to discuss things, not himself

@Thrawn, VE's vote seemed premature to me because I didn't really see a super early blue claim as scummy, but not wholly unreasonable considering Wile WAS directly contradicting everything he had said earlier.

Immediate attack on Wiley for blue claiming:
This seemed like another very easy thing to do, but in his accusation he doesn't really explain why it's scummy, just that "it's all bad." It's easy to attack someone for being obviously contradictory without actually calling them scummy, and that's what he did.

The ideal townie would pursue his read no matter what, but a non-ideal townie isn't necessarily scum. What shouts scummy to me is the transparent motivation of focusing on how everyone else perceives his arguments, and not on his arguments themselves.

On January 22 2014 06:34 JonnyLaw wrote:
I say 100% for fairness' sake we cannot change the vote. It's shitty but I think it would have passed regardless. Hell, he could still be lying but rules 11 and 12 make me believe scum did not receive at a role pm to fake claim.

On January 22 2014 06:34 JonnyLaw wrote:
I say 100% for fairness' sake we cannot change the vote. It's shitty but I think it would have passed regardless. Hell, he could still be lying but rules 11 and 12 make me believe scum did not receive at a role pm to fake claim.

On January 22 2014 06:49 Crossfire99 wrote:

Because they either have 2 goons or not. I figured it was obvious. They then can narrow things down based on that. 2 goons means 1 powerrole and 1-2 named VTs. If not, there's more spread for the options, but they still know things.

On January 22 2014 06:52 suki wrote:
Because I'd rather see the game through by lynching Zarepath like we were 99% about to do before this stupid claim posting thing, than win because town cheated. Okay?

On January 22 2014 06:56 Crossfire99 wrote:

cause I thought is was obvious T_T and didn't realize it was an issue

On January 22 2014 06:58 Crossfire99 wrote:
So interesting thought. If we believe all the named vt claims, we lynch kush. If not we lynch one of them because kush soft claimed a powerrole (or not a vt)

On January 22 2014 07:08 thrawn2112 wrote:
rayn why lynch kush in one sentence?

On January 22 2014 07:28 Crossfire99 wrote:
yeah kush, i don't understand this post of yours if you're not a non vt role. Now I think you're scum.

On January 22 2014 07:38 kushm4sta wrote:
I thought omg rayn is claiming named vt like i am

On January 22 2014 07:57 kushm4sta wrote:
crossfire is attacking rayn for somethign stupid and making a huge case of it for no reason

On January 22 2014 08:40 thrawn2112 wrote:
hi rayn

*hi-five*

On January 22 2014 22:08 zarepath wrote:
No, I mean meta. When people understood he was Alakaslam, it was like everybody gave him a pass because of meta or something. How does he usually play?

On January 22 2014 23:29 suki wrote:


Yeah.. So why the single minded focus on Balla?

Jonny hasn't commented on other people really, aside from the ones that I pointed out. In my game where he was town, he threw out accusations all over the place. Also his cases on people were a lot more involved. In this game he's just like 'Balla is scum I called it give me town cred.'

On January 22 2014 23:32 suki wrote:
JonnyLaw should be all over the place but he's not.

I find it really weird that he had such a strong scumread on Balla from day 1 and pushed it so hard. It doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense that he would stay on Zarepath when Balla agreed with it, or think Crossfire looked bad when that was Balla's biggest case. No?

On January 22 2014 23:34 zarepath wrote:


The way you worded this sounds like you're assuming kush is scum

On January 22 2014 23:35 suki wrote:
Wow really?

I don't think JonnyLaw is playing good. I don't understand his aggression on Balla, I don't see how town Jonny could be so damn sure that Balla is scum, that's the entire point.

I'm getting tired of you calling me bad every time I say anything rayn.

On January 22 2014 23:35 suki wrote:
Wow really?

I don't think JonnyLaw is playing good. I don't understand his aggression on Balla, I don't see how town Jonny could be so damn sure that Balla is scum, that's the entire point.

I'm getting tired of you calling me bad every time I say anything rayn.

On January 22 2014 23:40 suki wrote:


Why the hell would town Jonny not doubt his reads on Zarepath and Crossfire if his number one scum is also on them?

On January 22 2014 06:43 JonnyLaw wrote:
Yeah, fine who do you want to lynch then? I'm taking a short break to reevaluate and gather my thoughts.

On January 22 2014 06:47 JonnyLaw wrote:



Aside from the activity level I'd agree.

On January 22 2014 03:59 JonnyLaw wrote:
I dunno maybe he's frustrated he got no support after putting a lot of effort into a case. Something you did not do.

Hell if it were up to me I'd lynch balla today but that doesn't seem likely. I've played 3 games with him in the last 2-3 months and this is not how town balla should be playing. So, when something's not working find another scummer to lynch. And I think Rayn did exactly that when he found Zarepath.

On January 22 2014 06:47 JonnyLaw wrote:

Aside from the activity level I'd agree.

On January 23 2014 00:05 kushm4sta wrote:
Town changes there minds, nothing new about that