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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 07:45 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:33 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:40 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:
Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum. Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced? As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it. 2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town. That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes? I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers.
The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right?
Also nice goalpost moving.
1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions.
2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1.
So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch???
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 07:47 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:45 Steveling wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote:
yes please do
##unvote
##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise) On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote:
if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS. Oh wait, except me. ^^^ case in point anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng
And if this game had no newbies in it, I'd take your statistics under advisement. Also in games like 7 town 2 scum (which it ypically use) you'd expect a 25% chance of getting scum anyways, 40% is pretty close.
On May 21 2014 07:47 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:39 marvellosity wrote:On May 21 2014 07:38 Blazinghand wrote:
So Marv, you gotta admit, these whole steveling/holyflare thing is pretty silly and not worth your attention. What do you think about the possibility of an rng lynch in this setup? Could be good, yes? As you're probably well aware, I've never RNGed, never supported RNG, and never will. Draw your own conclusions :p I know you disagree with me philosophically about the usefulness of RNG, I just figured maybe in a massively multifactional setup you might find it alluring. Well, next time then! On May 21 2014 07:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 06:38 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:36 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:
Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum. I was going to yell at you for the RNG nonsense but then I realized that you're right and even if you're scum, your plan has a decent chance of hitting other scum. HOWEVER, this is my first game in forever so fuck yo RNG, I'm gonna choose my vote the old fashioned way. Or Instead of the old fashioned homeopathic non-vaccinated way, you could use your vote in the scientifically correct way and vote OdinofPergo! Vaccines cause autism tho /s seriously though, the story you're going with is "I realized you're right, and even if you're scum, your plan will probably work and we'll probably hit scum... but I'm not gonna follow your plan, because of ill-defind reasons"? Actually yeah, I'm not even gonna argue with you. I play mafia for fun and us all picking an RNG then sitting back and seeing what happens doesn't seem fun to me. Plus I at least have enough faith in my own deduction and reasoning skills to think that I have just as good a chance of finding scum with analysis as RNG does. Ok, so that's a reason. I will note though that historically, TL towns tend not to statistically significantly outperform RNG on D1. I'm not proposing RNG for no reason; I think lynching OdinofPergo is our best chance today. If nothing else, I guarantee that pulling this off will have two results 1) it will be legendary 2 ) it will cause a massive shitstorm because everyone hates RNG. this shitstorm will give us lots of things to base reads off of for D2 What reads do you hope to garner? Like based upon the lynch of Odin? Like who defends/pushes him? Why not just do that on someone who actually does something scummy. I think that I'd rather lose to being bad that win to RNG... I'm not playing a slot machine I'm playing mafia. RNG is bad and you should feel bad.
Why not someone else? Because RNG. RNG is the best and I feel good.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 07:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:44 Valenius wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2014 07:42 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:17 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I'd lynch HF in a heartbeat if he aligned with mafia. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:23 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Oh I'd lynch tamburini in a heartbeat regardless of his alignment. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry HF you've broken my heart too many times. ![[image loading]](http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120309173425/goldensun/images/thumb/b/ba/GSHeart.jpg/240px-GSHeart.jpg) Chalis (ハート Heart) is an antagonist in Golden Sun: Dark Dawn. Together with Blados, she is one of the commanders of a secretive military nation named Tuaparang. All three are bad guys taunting us in the thread. I rest my case. LOL ##unvoted koshi btw Yo so anyone else wanna sheep me on this guy? @BH RE Shitstorm: personally I hate shitstorms because they scare away townies and allow scum to control the agenda. Yes it provides an environment for scumslips to happen but my concern is that they get swamped and it takes literally days of ingame time to fully flesh out what happened, at which time scum will be in total control of the game. I understand where you're coming from but I think the costs outweigh the benefits.
You merely adopted the shitstorm. I was born in it. I didn't see a quiet D1 until I was an adult.
On May 21 2014 07:50 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 07:33 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:40 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:
Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum. Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced? As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it. 2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town. That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes? I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers. The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right? Also nice goalpost moving. 1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions. 2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1. So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch??? From OP: "Town-Wincondition: Eliminate all Factions, which endanger town!" Not necessarily all scum aligned?
Good point, also it doesn't matter, we need to kill them all. So are you on board, jampidampi? or are you busy thinking of another excuse not to lynch your scumbuddy odin?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 07:50 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:49 Steveling wrote:On May 21 2014 07:48 Valenius wrote:On May 21 2014 07:47 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 Steveling wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote:
yes please do
##unvote
##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise) On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote:
if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS. Oh wait, except me. ^^^ case in point anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng If you add in newbie games, we just lynch town/any claimed power roles. ezpz And yeah I was about to post that, this is retarded by HF. wtf is your problem?? bh wants to rng which is usually a 25% chance to mafia normal lynching by poe has a 40%+ chance to hit mafia i'm the retard right 
Ok, but also this game is different. Pay attention to what i'm saying about RNG. This game is massively multifactional. If we RNg, we're much more likely to hit scum. Even moreso, not all the scum will be aligned in resisting an RNG onto one of their members. Also, this is a big game with a bunch of different players, we can't expect the kind of coordination needed to get a good lynch off D1. It's the PERFECT time for RNG.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 07:54 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 07:33 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:40 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:
Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum. Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced? As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it. 2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town. That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes? I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers. The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right? Also nice goalpost moving. 1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions. 2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1. So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch??? I don't see how my wording implies I thought all or most of the factions to be scum factions. My orginal assumption was that there would be only one scum faction, since that is how it usually is.
ok, now that you know according to the op all factions threatening town have to be eliminated, are you ready to lynch odin?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:01 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:50 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:47 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 Steveling wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote:
yes please do
##unvote
##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise) On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote:
if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS. Oh wait, except me. ^^^ case in point anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng And if this game had no newbies in it, I'd take your statistics under advisement. Also in games like 7 town 2 scum (which it ypically use) you'd expect a 25% chance of getting scum anyways, 40% is pretty close. On May 21 2014 07:47 Tehpoofter wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:39 marvellosity wrote:On May 21 2014 07:38 Blazinghand wrote:
So Marv, you gotta admit, these whole steveling/holyflare thing is pretty silly and not worth your attention. What do you think about the possibility of an rng lynch in this setup? Could be good, yes? As you're probably well aware, I've never RNGed, never supported RNG, and never will. Draw your own conclusions :p I know you disagree with me philosophically about the usefulness of RNG, I just figured maybe in a massively multifactional setup you might find it alluring. Well, next time then! On May 21 2014 07:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 06:38 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:36 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:
Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum. I was going to yell at you for the RNG nonsense but then I realized that you're right and even if you're scum, your plan has a decent chance of hitting other scum. HOWEVER, this is my first game in forever so fuck yo RNG, I'm gonna choose my vote the old fashioned way. Or Instead of the old fashioned homeopathic non-vaccinated way, you could use your vote in the scientifically correct way and vote OdinofPergo! Vaccines cause autism tho /s seriously though, the story you're going with is "I realized you're right, and even if you're scum, your plan will probably work and we'll probably hit scum... but I'm not gonna follow your plan, because of ill-defind reasons"? Actually yeah, I'm not even gonna argue with you. I play mafia for fun and us all picking an RNG then sitting back and seeing what happens doesn't seem fun to me. Plus I at least have enough faith in my own deduction and reasoning skills to think that I have just as good a chance of finding scum with analysis as RNG does. Ok, so that's a reason. I will note though that historically, TL towns tend not to statistically significantly outperform RNG on D1. I'm not proposing RNG for no reason; I think lynching OdinofPergo is our best chance today. If nothing else, I guarantee that pulling this off will have two results 1) it will be legendary 2 ) it will cause a massive shitstorm because everyone hates RNG. this shitstorm will give us lots of things to base reads off of for D2 What reads do you hope to garner? Like based upon the lynch of Odin? Like who defends/pushes him? Why not just do that on someone who actually does something scummy. I think that I'd rather lose to being bad that win to RNG... I'm not playing a slot machine I'm playing mafia. RNG is bad and you should feel bad. Why not someone else? Because RNG. RNG is the best and I feel good. Obviously you don't really believe in the strategy. If someone thinks they're not better than RNG then they should just vote and leave the thread and come back in 48 hours and see how they did. But you clearly said you think you're a good player aka better than RNG so you don't even believe in an RNG lynch. And I'm going to vote on who I think is scummy. Hopefully its right but even if its wrong then I will be happy that I had some influence over it and not just randomness  Last time I'm commenting on this btw as its silly and unhelpful to town.
I'm the best player in TL Mafia and I believe in RNG lynch because it's objectively the best tool. The definition of being a good player is basically using RNG lynch, in a setup like this. You don't just vote randomly and leave the thread, because most people don't do RNG lynch. You make sure everyone else follows you too. By your logic, if I have a scumread on someone, I should just vote them and leave the thread, my job is done.
Typical poof.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:01 kitaman27 wrote:
Also, if we start ignoring Blazinghand, maybe he will go away.
You haven't explicitly weighed in on the RNG lynch on Odin. Please do so!
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 07:50 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 07:33 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:40 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:
Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum. Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced? As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it. 2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town. That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes? I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers. The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right? Also nice goalpost moving. 1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions. 2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1. So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch??? From OP: "Town-Wincondition: Eliminate all Factions, which endanger town!" Not necessarily all scum aligned?
Thanks for the support, but you haven't explicitly stated what your thoughts are on the Odinofpergo lynch are. Now that the tide is turning against you, this might be your only chance to do so. So what's the deal?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 07:59 WaveofShadow wrote:
Steve v HF mafia on mafia fight calling it now
Kita y u gotta do that every game
You make my heart sad
You haven't weighed in on the OdinofPergo RNG lynch. Given that this setup is uniquely suited to RNG lynch, what do you think?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 07:41 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:38 Blazinghand wrote:
So Marv, you gotta admit, these whole steveling/holyflare thing is pretty silly and not worth your attention. What do you think about the possibility of an rng lynch in this setup? Could be good, yes? I actually laughed out loud at this post. GJ BH
Laugh as in, I' made a good point? You have to admit, Odin hasn't done anything of note, and since there's so many scum factions, there's actually a solid chance he's scum. Good RNG lynch, yes?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:09 Xatalos wrote:
##Vote: OdinofPergo
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:11 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 08:08 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:59 WaveofShadow wrote:
Steve v HF mafia on mafia fight calling it now
Kita y u gotta do that every game
You make my heart sad You haven't weighed in on the OdinofPergo RNG lynch. Given that this setup is uniquely suited to RNG lynch, what do you think? I did weigh in already. You know very well it's not going to pick up enough support. Even that time I actively pushed for it and we almost got there it ended up failing in the end. I know it's your thing BH but 'tis old already IMO. I'll tell you what. If you can convince enough people that a lynch seems even remotely likely, you'll have my axe.
Sounds good. I'll ping you again once I have a few more votes.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:11 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 08:04 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 08:01 Tehpoofter wrote:On May 21 2014 07:50 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:47 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 Steveling wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote:
yes please do
##unvote
##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise) On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote:
if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS. Oh wait, except me. ^^^ case in point anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng And if this game had no newbies in it, I'd take your statistics under advisement. Also in games like 7 town 2 scum (which it ypically use) you'd expect a 25% chance of getting scum anyways, 40% is pretty close. On May 21 2014 07:47 Tehpoofter wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:39 marvellosity wrote:On May 21 2014 07:38 Blazinghand wrote:
So Marv, you gotta admit, these whole steveling/holyflare thing is pretty silly and not worth your attention. What do you think about the possibility of an rng lynch in this setup? Could be good, yes? As you're probably well aware, I've never RNGed, never supported RNG, and never will. Draw your own conclusions :p I know you disagree with me philosophically about the usefulness of RNG, I just figured maybe in a massively multifactional setup you might find it alluring. Well, next time then! On May 21 2014 07:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 06:38 Blazinghand wrote:
[quote]
Or Instead of the old fashioned homeopathic non-vaccinated way, you could use your vote in the scientifically correct way and vote OdinofPergo! Vaccines cause autism tho /s seriously though, the story you're going with is "I realized you're right, and even if you're scum, your plan will probably work and we'll probably hit scum... but I'm not gonna follow your plan, because of ill-defind reasons"? Actually yeah, I'm not even gonna argue with you. I play mafia for fun and us all picking an RNG then sitting back and seeing what happens doesn't seem fun to me. Plus I at least have enough faith in my own deduction and reasoning skills to think that I have just as good a chance of finding scum with analysis as RNG does. Ok, so that's a reason. I will note though that historically, TL towns tend not to statistically significantly outperform RNG on D1. I'm not proposing RNG for no reason; I think lynching OdinofPergo is our best chance today. If nothing else, I guarantee that pulling this off will have two results 1) it will be legendary 2 ) it will cause a massive shitstorm because everyone hates RNG. this shitstorm will give us lots of things to base reads off of for D2 What reads do you hope to garner? Like based upon the lynch of Odin? Like who defends/pushes him? Why not just do that on someone who actually does something scummy. I think that I'd rather lose to being bad that win to RNG... I'm not playing a slot machine I'm playing mafia. RNG is bad and you should feel bad. Why not someone else? Because RNG. RNG is the best and I feel good. Obviously you don't really believe in the strategy. If someone thinks they're not better than RNG then they should just vote and leave the thread and come back in 48 hours and see how they did. But you clearly said you think you're a good player aka better than RNG so you don't even believe in an RNG lynch. And I'm going to vote on who I think is scummy. Hopefully its right but even if its wrong then I will be happy that I had some influence over it and not just randomness Last time I'm commenting on this btw as its silly and unhelpful to town. I'm the best player in TL Mafia and I believe in RNG lynch because it's objectively the best tool. The definition of being a good player is basically using RNG lynch, in a setup like this. You don't just vote randomly and leave the thread, because most people don't do RNG lynch. You make sure everyone else follows you too. By your logic, if I have a scumread on someone, I should just vote them and leave the thread, my job is done. Typical poof. So lets say we had an RNG shot and a lynch. BUT you could only base one on RNG. Who do you find scummy in this thread so far that you would have to way in on for the non-RNG portion?
We don't have an RNg shot and a lynch though, we just have a lynch. Let's RNG it.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:11 Xatalos wrote:Sorry BH 
Jampi could easily be scum for the "filler posts" reason, but you gotta admit, that's a pretty weak reason to vote someone D1. It might _feel_ better than RNG lynching, but I think RNG lynching is more likely to hit scum. Don't you?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:14 Valenius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 08:07 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:50 Valenius wrote:On May 21 2014 07:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 07:33 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 06:40 jampidampi wrote:On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:
Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum. Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced? As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it. 2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town. That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes? I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers. The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right? Also nice goalpost moving. 1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions. 2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1. So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch??? From OP: "Town-Wincondition: Eliminate all Factions, which endanger town!" Not necessarily all scum aligned? Thanks for the support, but you haven't explicitly stated what your thoughts are on the Odinofpergo lynch are. Now that the tide is turning against you, this might be your only chance to do so. So what's the deal? In short; I'm okay with either or yours, or Yellow's method (if followed fully) From some of the responses so far; Yellow's method wouldn't work due to enough unwilling players, which when votes would be spread wide not tall would nullify any effect of the random voting. Yours I'm okay with. Obviously oop hasn't posted yet, so he'll probably be pretty salty, and it would require probably.. 14 of the players signing on to it? My first post that the steve carell posting guy got upset with was saying im shit at day 1's with 9 players (newbie games). I'll stand by this, regardless of whether he thinks its scummy or not. For me, RNG is about as good as me picking a d1 lynch target.
The problem with Yellow's method is it requires everyone's participation to be truly random. Scum could just see where the rngs are landing, then either join or not join to push the votes onto or off of people. As long as some poeple don't participate or paritcipate selectively, it's not truly random.
Mine, on the other hand, has been 100% random. How many people participate affects is success rate, but not whether or not it is random. That's the advantage to my method. Even better, since this is a plurality lynch game, not a majority lynch game, we don't even need like 16 players. All we need is more than anyone else. The fact that a lynch needs votes is not a good argument, that's a general coutnerargument to like, the concept of a lynch, not to RNG lynching.
Join me. Let us be glorious together.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:19 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 08:12 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 08:11 Tehpoofter wrote:On May 21 2014 08:04 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 08:01 Tehpoofter wrote:On May 21 2014 07:50 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:47 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:45 Steveling wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Holyflare wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:
Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice
[quote]
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise) On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote:
if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS. Oh wait, except me. ^^^ case in point anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng And if this game had no newbies in it, I'd take your statistics under advisement. Also in games like 7 town 2 scum (which it ypically use) you'd expect a 25% chance of getting scum anyways, 40% is pretty close. On May 21 2014 07:47 Tehpoofter wrote:On May 21 2014 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:39 marvellosity wrote:On May 21 2014 07:38 Blazinghand wrote:
So Marv, you gotta admit, these whole steveling/holyflare thing is pretty silly and not worth your attention. What do you think about the possibility of an rng lynch in this setup? Could be good, yes? As you're probably well aware, I've never RNGed, never supported RNG, and never will. Draw your own conclusions :p I know you disagree with me philosophically about the usefulness of RNG, I just figured maybe in a massively multifactional setup you might find it alluring. Well, next time then! On May 21 2014 07:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2014 07:36 Blazinghand wrote:
[quote]
seriously though, the story you're going with is "I realized you're right, and even if you're scum, your plan will probably work and we'll probably hit scum... but I'm not gonna follow your plan, because of ill-defind reasons"? Actually yeah, I'm not even gonna argue with you. I play mafia for fun and us all picking an RNG then sitting back and seeing what happens doesn't seem fun to me. Plus I at least have enough faith in my own deduction and reasoning skills to think that I have just as good a chance of finding scum with analysis as RNG does. Ok, so that's a reason. I will note though that historically, TL towns tend not to statistically significantly outperform RNG on D1. I'm not proposing RNG for no reason; I think lynching OdinofPergo is our best chance today. If nothing else, I guarantee that pulling this off will have two results 1) it will be legendary 2 ) it will cause a massive shitstorm because everyone hates RNG. this shitstorm will give us lots of things to base reads off of for D2 What reads do you hope to garner? Like based upon the lynch of Odin? Like who defends/pushes him? Why not just do that on someone who actually does something scummy. I think that I'd rather lose to being bad that win to RNG... I'm not playing a slot machine I'm playing mafia. RNG is bad and you should feel bad. Why not someone else? Because RNG. RNG is the best and I feel good. Obviously you don't really believe in the strategy. If someone thinks they're not better than RNG then they should just vote and leave the thread and come back in 48 hours and see how they did. But you clearly said you think you're a good player aka better than RNG so you don't even believe in an RNG lynch. And I'm going to vote on who I think is scummy. Hopefully its right but even if its wrong then I will be happy that I had some influence over it and not just randomness Last time I'm commenting on this btw as its silly and unhelpful to town. I'm the best player in TL Mafia and I believe in RNG lynch because it's objectively the best tool. The definition of being a good player is basically using RNG lynch, in a setup like this. You don't just vote randomly and leave the thread, because most people don't do RNG lynch. You make sure everyone else follows you too. By your logic, if I have a scumread on someone, I should just vote them and leave the thread, my job is done. Typical poof. So lets say we had an RNG shot and a lynch. BUT you could only base one on RNG. Who do you find scummy in this thread so far that you would have to way in on for the non-RNG portion? We don't have an RNg shot and a lynch though, we just have a lynch. Let's RNG it. Dodging productive questions is dumb and scummy and you know it. ##Vote: BlazinghandContribute or die.
You think a newbie like you has a snowball's chance in hell of pushing a lynch on a vet like me? How cute
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 07:57 27ninjabunnies wrote:
@BH: I'm not sure tbh. RNG seems like an okay thing to do, especially with factions and the huge amount of possible scum we could have. But then again it's COULD have. But I like to lynch based off of reads and whom I find scummy or pretty certain are mafia. I don't even know if Odin has talked today, so I'd prob won't lynch him yet.
If RNG really seems okay to do, you'd do it regardless of whether or not someone else talks. The whole point of RNG is it's just based on that.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:47 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 08:43 Tehpoofter wrote:On May 21 2014 08:26 27ninjabunnies wrote:
What happened to completely ignoring BH?
BH is more likely town here. Putting himself in the spotlight of town would be stupid as mafia unless he has many partners or knows he can get multiple mislynches within the next couple of days if he has town support and it's worth his lynch.
But BH is pushing a losing cause here. He doesn't have much of support at all. You've seen me play mafia before bunnies on video mafia I come out and just take over and do silly stuff because like BH here I think its very hard for me to get lynched as either alignment... clearly he is quite certain of himself and his playstyle so I think someone who has his persona might do something like this regardless of alignment because he can. Do you see that correlation? For what its worth I like what you have to say about thrawn his posts so far have been nothing. Yeah, you do silly stuff regardless of your alignment. But I understand what you mean. So BH, if you are so good as you say you are, besides you pushing RNG, what reads do you have outside of that?
OdinofPergo is scum. Let's get him. Why all the resistance? What has he done this game to convince you he's town?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:29 kushm4sta wrote:
bh, do we really need to have this retarded random lynch discussion every game??? I feel like i have heard it a million times and it's hella boring.
You always brag about how great you are at the game, but i never see you hunting scum. You are always creating boring mechanics-drama around yourself.
Look, in this game, unlike many games, it's actually like objectively the right move to RNG lynch. There are multiple factions, they wont' be able to coordinate to shut it down (and probably won't even want to stop it, since it's more likely to hit a different faction), and there will be more than the usual number of scum. This is like the one time it's super super good. You have to admit it: this setup is different.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:53 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 08:49 Blazinghand wrote:On May 21 2014 07:57 27ninjabunnies wrote:
@BH: I'm not sure tbh. RNG seems like an okay thing to do, especially with factions and the huge amount of possible scum we could have. But then again it's COULD have. But I like to lynch based off of reads and whom I find scummy or pretty certain are mafia. I don't even know if Odin has talked today, so I'd prob won't lynch him yet.
If RNG really seems okay to do, you'd do it regardless of whether or not someone else talks. The whole point of RNG is it's just based on that. As I said, I like to base where I vote because of the way I am reading that person. RNG, while could work, I don't want to do it. Like I said, you don't have a lot of support for this. And I'd rather find scum based on their play than a mechanical, statistical "game" you are trying to push here.
So like 5+ poeple are like "yeah I could do RNG, but you don't have support for it"
well yeah cause you guys are all saying that. come on, try something new! This is the best possible setup for this. IF we don't RNG now, in this game, when WILL we RNG?
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