A Quiet Game of Mini Mafia

On January 01 2014 08:14 Coagulation wrote:
/replacement

unless I get
WAFFLED ON THE COUNTER

Hope I dont get

WEINERED OVER TINY CRITICISMS

On January 01 2014 10:40 kushm4sta wrote:


it's a backdoor to avoid getting WotC because no onewould bother to WotC a replacement

On January 07 2014 11:03 iamperfection wrote:

why dont you read and tell us? Just an idea

On January 07 2014 11:08 gumshoe wrote:

I get what he's saying, he means the act of prodding the sleeping lion doesn't say anything about Iams alignment but is in of itself pro town, because it encourages Yamato to play, which I don't neccecairely agree with, because the way iam called out Yamato was in A very accusatory tone that suggests he wouldn't actually listen to what Yamato would have to say, despite how scummy he finds him not saying anything to be. Also going by this and earlier dialogue it feels like Artanis and iam are pretty chummy / :

Artanis how is Iam more townie than me in this game? What has he done to earn your subtle approval?

Also welcome to the game Wos, what do you think of the way cheese pushes Artanis and soft defends me?

On January 07 2014 11:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
WaveofShadow why are you not pissed off for rolling town?

On January 07 2014 11:40 gumshoe wrote:


Not this time, does that make him scum you think? Or is Yamato waiting for the last possible moment to regale us with his glorious reads?

On January 07 2014 11:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


I see those games as well, problem is nobody ever gives any fucks about it. Every game there is a discussion whether to lynch lurkers and then it fades away like a distant memory so the lurkers just do what they do.

On January 07 2014 11:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's this lurker discussion? There is not going to be lurkers in this game, right fuba?

On January 07 2014 11:47 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


meta as fuck, as such just lynch all of the lurkers and win the game. You take their post count for the game, minus any posts that say "hi just got home catching up" and divide it by the number of letters in their TL username, then you have a concrete way of numbering one's inactiveness. Then you lynch the dude with the lowest (highest?) score.

On January 07 2014 12:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah that's what at least (unfortunately) gumshoe does as town, he did the same thing in Extractor trick mafia start aswell. Dunno why Artanis went with it - that's slighty suspicious.

On January 07 2014 12:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
gumshoe you really should not compare voice mafia "meta" to forum mafia, those things are totally different.

On January 07 2014 12:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Not really WoS, no.

On January 07 2014 13:48 thrawn2112 wrote:
wow what a tough crowd...

On January 07 2014 23:44 iamperfection wrote:
also that fucker kush hasn't graced us with his presence despite being able to i believe. so we still have to figure him out.

On January 08 2014 10:09 iamperfection wrote:
well im gonna say bugs is town considering he basically for the last few pages has told everyone to look at me and seems to care way to much if he were scum. Plus he did that thing were he says im picking up my ball and going home and decides to post anyways. That's a townie thing to do in my view as scum are more apt to try to have an excuse to leave the thread.

that said chill out bugs lets catch scum

but ill even do the work for you because yamato is scum. If you look at his filter there is nothing of value come join me on the wagon of justice

## Vote Yamato

On January 08 2014 10:18 kushm4sta wrote:
yeah id lynch wos

On January 08 2014 10:21 Corazon wrote:
Wait can someone explain to me why that post was scummy? I'm not too familiar on WoS' town play so I'm not sure what you two see in his post.

On January 08 2014 10:20 iamperfection wrote:
anything to say wos

On January 08 2014 10:23 wherebugsgo wrote:


I'm sorry, what?

Most of this shit is just blatantly wrong or misleading.



Yamato, please. I want to hear your thoughts on him.

On January 08 2014 10:25 wherebugsgo wrote:


what do you think of this?

On January 08 2014 10:26 justanothertownie wrote:

I started the conversation with bugs you know...

On January 08 2014 10:33 justanothertownie wrote:

Well, if I am not mistaken I was prodding bugs for reads at least as hard as the other way round. How come you paint the whole thing this one sided?

On January 08 2014 10:37 iamperfection wrote:

why did you wait so long to do this considering you said the same thing yesterday but didn't bother to vote?

On January 08 2014 10:38 wherebugsgo wrote:


While this is true, there are other, more important things that I think you might be missing.

Do you actually think JAT is scum or would you say that his lack of reads is disconcerting?

And if you had to name an alternative to yamato who would it be?

It's in your best interest to be forthcoming with your reads, since your last few posts haven't looked so good if you are town.

On January 08 2014 10:41 justanothertownie wrote:

How convenient. The problem is you are trying to throw suspicion on me by saying bugs had to forcefully wrench reads out of me when it was exactly the same the other way round. He did not give any reads before that. How does that make any sense?

On January 08 2014 10:44 WaveofShadow wrote:

Nope.
Wrong.
The way I see it, WBG reveals a great deal about himself in the way he defends his policy lynch and most importantly puts himself out there. Everything you had posted up until that point was simply an attack or criticism of somebody else. You know, I'll give you that you're right I suppose in that it is not a read in the proper sense but at least it allows the entire thread to attempt a read of him. His posts are not guarded, careful. Yours reek of it.

On January 08 2014 10:48 justanothertownie wrote:

Holy mother of shitlogic.
WBG reveals a great deal of himself by talking about POLICY the whole time? Surely you can enlighten me why scum would not be able to comfortably talk about policy how much they want?
Also he is clearly putting himself out there with this while I certainly don't do so by getting in a fight with him. Your posts reek of Sherlock...

On January 08 2014 10:49 wherebugsgo wrote:


Okay, fair enough.

I'm just saying that because I think the votes today are probably going to be split between you and yamato unless something changes pretty drastically. If you are town then it's obviously in your best interest to stay active and provide your reads. You've been doing that so far, I have no complaints on that front. It's just that a couple of your posts over the past page have been somewhat scummy. In overall context they're definitely not the worst, though. I'd have to agree that Yamato is a better choice than you for now, particularly since both kush and iamp sort of reflex voted you.

On January 08 2014 09:06 kushm4sta wrote:
k now this is starting to get fun for me because apparently im pissing you off.

i posted "so whos scummy" because i was curious about who was scummy obviously. in fact all of my posts had a reason.
I was telling you my thoughts about the game. If you dont think they are sufficient then say that, but there is no excuse to call me a fuck, to call me cancerous. sir that play is illegal and it would bring me great pleasure if you were modkilled.

On January 08 2014 11:14 wherebugsgo wrote:


everyone has this problem with me, because I am "good" at scum.

If you read any of my past games (and you can take my word on it if you want to, though if you really wanted to be thorough you can actually go back and check) I rarely, if ever, take any suspicion on day 1 as scum. It's often to the point where not even a single person will vote me on day 1.

I am not afraid of pressure or anything like that as scum but I purposely make my scum play "townish" and I will throw in heaps of aggression or "unexpected" scum play just to throw people off, but I am very self conscious about how much pressure I am under and generally on day 1 I am under none as scum-I don't let it get there because I spend the time coordinating my team instead of posting lots.

+ Show Spoiler [wherebugsgo] +

If you note I've played mafia 6 times. In minis, 3 times; in all of those minis I survived to at least lylo. I won two of them by living to endgame. In the third, I lived to lylo, finally got lynched and then our team lost because I was basically the only one playing (it was a hydra mini, 7 town hydras 2 mafia hydras, so 18 players total. Endgame was controversial because of the way the last lynch went.)

In the other three games, one was a game in which everyone was a vig. I got shot by a spam vigi in Responsibility on N2. In Arkham a 3P who had the ability to make himself look like anything made himself look like mafia. He then chose to shoot me N2 because I tried to get him lynched on D2, but it was highly unlikely that I ever would have been lynched that game based on how it was progressing. In Storm Mafia, similarly to Couples Therapy I was fairly safe until my teammate died d4, and then our entire team got lynched 4 days in a row.

I also played in a couple others that are not on this list, Space Station and (I think?) The Game. I was definitely mafia in SS mafia and I was never suspected d1 or ever, really. I was shot by a vig in the town circle after the rest of the players in the game had basically been confirmed to be town and my team had already been decimated.

Fact of the matter is that I take a shit ton more lynch attention as town/3p than scum. I really didn't get lynched as town all that often until my more recent games, though.

On January 08 2014 11:39 wherebugsgo wrote:


Cora, on the other hand, did (and really didn't post much of anything while he was here anyway).

I'm interested to see what happens if I switch as well. WoS will probably switch too, so yamato will have some pretty serious momentum before anyone else arrives back in the thread.

##unvote

##vote yamato

On January 08 2014 11:37 wherebugsgo wrote:


seemed to me like Artanis had a natural focus on Cheesecake (sort of how i have a natural focus on Corazon) simply because they were interacting. I could sort of follow the conversation from both perspectives; i.e. if you were to pretend to be town Artanis or town Cheesecake, do you think their actions make sense? For the most part they seem to make sense.

I haven't read into Cheesecake too heavily, but as far as Artanis goes the major thing that concerns me is his lack of presence today. It probably doesn't mean anything, but if he's still not present tomorrow I'd be worried. His posting tone so far seems fine to me. Another thing is that he sort of deflected giving an opinion on Yamato (IIRC he said something about not having played with scum yamato in a long time) and a bit more minor is that I don't really agree with his opinions, but I think they can reasonably be justified from his perspective.

Sadly it's a "let's wait and see" on him, Cheese, yamato...basically everyone in the filter list that is not a townread to me for now. I would rank yamato at the top of the scum list, though.

Why should I let scum have a head start into knowing whom I suspect so early, if it doesn't particularly benefit me? It only changes their behaviour when they know who is specifically under scrutiny.

On January 08 2014 13:03 yamato77 wrote:
We're not lynching me.

On January 08 2014 13:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I dunno if you are reading closely but i think i have explained why i think yamato is town.

On January 07 2014 23:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Not really.

He didn't say "hi" to the thread. That's like a scumclaim. j/k, i dunno about JAT.

Actually no, i think yamato is town. There is some sort of a process going on in his head on his read on me. When he is scum there is no process, he just posts some stuff and tryhard reads or does not post anything.

Dunno about bugs either, have never played with him.

I have some super secret scumreads but i am waiting for all people to post.

On January 08 2014 13:10 yamato77 wrote:

You'll see.

On January 08 2014 13:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On a sidenote i love bugs, that's exactly how you play mafia and JAT and Corazon are being dumb. That does not mean they are scum though.

On January 08 2014 13:25 Corazon wrote:
Stop stop stop stop stop Rayn and Thrawn.

Thrawn - lynching Rayn D1 is a bad idea. If Rayn is town, he is going to be a great asset to us going forward. He should be a policy lynch if he lasts longer than N2.

Rayn - you need to stop OMGUSing and overreacting when people vote for you. This debate isn't going to help anyone. This is exactly what derailed the game in BttB.

I'm begging for you to please drop this silly argument and resume it D2 or D3. We don't need this right now. Let's focus on actual scummy people like WBG, Yamato, and the inactives (in my opinion, CC, Yamato, Artanis (to an extent), Kush (to an extent, and mkfuba).

On January 08 2014 13:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
thrawn:
Well then you should not post when you are under influence. I stopped posting drunk when i realized that's a fucking terrible idea. yamato even asked you to stop posting last night when you told us you are stoned.

WoS:
I try to elaborate as well as i can onto yamato. What yamato does as mafia is two things. He does not play for an all game plan. He plays for (1) survival, usually lurks, and (2) fuels arguments between townies. 1 and 2 are important, usually lurking is something that's not so important as he is able to change that if he wants to.
1) This can be seen in GoT, where i played scum with him. We had a game plan from the beginning but yamato's mindset was pretty much "i won't get lynched on D1". I don't remember he was doing much else than trying to survive D2.
2) This can be seen from 4 Persona, where yamato's pure purpose was to fuel me vs you argument until it ended up in a townie lynch. After that he discredited me for all D2, but when i basically solved the game on N2 he had no other option than to night kill me, even though i lynched a cop on D1 and had a red check on me. That's how "confident" yamato feels his scumplay is.

What he has done in this game is neither of those things.

On January 08 2014 13:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:

It's not scummy, it's "not caring". That's not necessarily scummy, especially for yamato who has been not caring as town many times at the start of the game.

On January 08 2014 13:40 Corazon wrote:
I don't know Rayn, it's hard to be cooperative with a gun down your throat.

On January 08 2014 13:52 Corazon wrote:

Then stop fucking lying about every single post I make.

On January 08 2014 13:57 Corazon wrote:

It's infuriating to have you twist my words. This is a two way street, brother.
I'm trying my hardest to be nice, but when you do this shit to me, it's hard to be cordial.

On January 08 2014 14:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
before I forget and go to sleep, I want to make this clear:

it's important that people look at the way players enter and reenter the thread. Yamato's reentrance is scummy as shit. iamp's is towny as hell. This is pretty easy to see, but there are instances where this is quite difficult.

Today, I didn't see any of the following four:

Cheesecake
Artanis
gumshoe
mkfuba

From towniest to scummiest, in that order. Both CC and Artanis look fine, and gumshoe is a bit iffy to me, but mkfuba in particular looks awful. I know he tends to play what I like to call "scummy town" but his posts in particular are very on-the-fency and generally quite nebulous. His only attack so far has been on Cora, and it was quite weak. After his initial small amount of activity he has since disappeared.

What's important is that we note the reentrance into the thread of all 4 of these players. If you are around when they come back I implore you to question them. I will do so myself if I'm awake at the time.

On January 08 2014 14:12 thrawn2112 wrote:


This is a pretty tame variation of what you'd normally get but the attitude is the same. I have known him to fudge his explanations as town to avoid suspicion and other "scummy" stuff like that so you need to approach with caution. TBH I kinda expected him to blow up at some of the things people have already said, so I need to read some of his scum games to see if the more passive, instead of hostile, woe-is-me attitude fits his scum play.

On January 08 2014 14:18 wherebugsgo wrote:


actually it's worse than that, it's akin to setting up a lynch for later.

Let's pretend he's scum for a second and he wants to push me as a lynch today. Assuming I don't die and his team doesn't find rayn a threat, he'll just leave rayn alive, right?

So then let's say I do end up dying at some point, then all he has to do is turn around on his old read of rayn and push that on a later day. Easy pickings.

I do this all the time as scum.

The problem is that this requires an assumption about Corazon's play that I am not comfortable with making right now. I'm not so sure how to read him atm.

On January 08 2014 14:24 thrawn2112 wrote:


I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that you don't think he was as hostile as town Corazon would have been? But you don't know how to reconcile this judgement with how he may or may not have changed after recent drama?

If you are, then sadly that's not really a productive conversation we can have out in the open so we'll just have to decide for ourselves.

On January 08 2014 14:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439654&currentpage=27#537
Another question to you;
Why don't you jsut go to my filter and check it? Why am i doing your work for you?

On January 08 2014 14:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439654&currentpage=27#537
Another question to you;
Why don't you jsut go to my filter and check it? Why am i doing your work for you?

On January 08 2014 14:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
WoS can i lynch you if i find you doing this in Les Mafia?

On January 08 2014 14:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Like this is literally one of the towniest thought processes there are in thread and incredibly hard to fake as scum, especially considering we are talking about fuba here, who's not played scum much (maybe once or twice?).

On January 08 2014 14:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Okay so do you think it's reasonable to lose your train of thought in 14 minutes as thrawn is suggesting happened?
Also do you buy his explanation of being too stoned and how does it make sense because before the argument yamato politely asked thrawn to not post if he does not have a clear head?

On January 08 2014 14:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:

But you just said you have never done so.
I believe you that you have not done so in your town games as lying about it as mafia does not make sense if you have in fact done so as town. If you are however mafia and have done that as mafia before you might intentionally or sub-consiously repeat the behavior.

On January 08 2014 14:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No you actually do the opposite and answer all the cases there are and give opinions on them so definitely does not make you scum based on meta.

On January 08 2014 15:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:

And i have only been lynched as mafia because i was too drunk.

On January 08 2014 15:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I read your D1 in Les.

On January 08 2014 15:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You are either lazy or scum and you should stop being lazy if you are town.

On January 08 2014 15:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Because town players are interested in figuring out stuff and commenting on most interesting topics there are in the thread. Regardless of your alignment you either think my case is not good or for some other reason you did not want to comment on it. When i specifically asked you to comment on it you didn't even remember the case and wanted me to point out where the case was.

That suggests to me you are not reading the thread closely (as you did not remember the case at all) which means you are lazy, or that you for some reason didn't want to either +1 my case or tell me you think the case is bad or does not make thrawn mafia. If it is "for some reason" i can't think of a townie reason and if you were not lazy i think you are scum.

On January 08 2014 15:35 yamato77 wrote:
Let's see here:



This is accurate.



Makes sense once you elaborated. As an aside, I do find Cora a somewhat decent lynch target for today given the way he's ridden his "attack" of me as a real contribution to the game. But more on that later when I elaborate on my reads.



I do love WBG, I'm pretty confident he's town. He could be tryharding mafia, but there's no point in him getting worked up and putting in so much effort when so many players in this game are not doing so UNLESS he is town.



This is an absolute shit reason for voting for me. He doesn't think I'm mafia (nor will he call me mafia), but he's content voting me, and perhaps even lynching me, as punishment for "poor play". This is the second time he's mentioned this exact reasoning, yet it now comes with a vote attached as other players begin to jump on the wagon. Coincidence?

WoS will join Corazon in an exposition post later on. Also joining them will be the surprise secret guest, whom I will push a lynch on! Because he's mafia!

On January 08 2014 15:42 yamato77 wrote:

Plenty of people had called me mafia or stated suspicion of me by the time you decided to vote for me.

But still, the main point is just how scummy your reasoning is. You don't even necessarily think, that how i'm playing makes me mafia, you just want to lynch me for it. It sounds like a circular way for a mafia player to justify voting for a player they know is town.

Plus, I'm apparently your only read in this game and the rest of your posts have been extraordinarily useless, as Rayn has been nice enough to point out.

On January 08 2014 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On a sidenote i really don't think WoS has made a lot of sense.

On January 08 2014 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Not really WoS, no. You're not getting lynched today either way so i'd rather not waste time on it now instead of the people i see possibly getting lynched.

On January 07 2014 11:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
For the record if you want to get yamato to contribute, just threaten to lynch him for a really bad reason.
Works every time.
^.^

Welcome Rayn and Cora.

Cheese I as well have seen that happen multiple times. Sadly I have seen games where most of the inactives are town just as often if not more often than the ones where the inactives are scum.

On January 09 2014 02:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I want to policy lynch. kushmasta or Corazon, i don't care which one. We lose the game if they live even if they are town.
##unvote

On January 09 2014 03:01 thrawn2112 wrote:


no i think kush is town and tbh he's not annoying or disruptive or anything. half of the "anti town" shit he says I can see coming before you even poke at him... you guys make it so easy for him to troll you

On January 09 2014 03:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You mean this?

He said it was not a push but a converation starter - 10 pages into the game. That's all he has done, "started a conversation".

Cora is using sihtlogic and apparently will not stop using it and kush refuses to play the game.
Both will lose the game for the town regardless of their alignment. I am done with incredible stupidity in games.

On January 08 2014 16:01 kushm4sta wrote:
still want to lynch wos lol. im pretty much going to leave my vote on him for the whole game until he gets lynched.

On January 09 2014 03:07 kushm4sta wrote:
not true rayn. like im gonna unvote beceause wos is being pretty townie.
##unvote wos

On January 09 2014 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I don't know because he has not been here.
The difference is i expect gumshoe, fuba and CC to actually play mafia later.
I don't expect kush and Cora play mafia, it's pretty self-evident from their posts.

On January 09 2014 03:20 Corazon wrote:
I would love to hear WoS' explanation for why he had to lie about what I said to make me look scummy. It's pretty interesting that he's just letting it slide under the rug.

While he hopefully faces what he has done, I'm gonna go make a post about Yamato. Brb.

On January 09 2014 03:34 iamperfection wrote:
you seem overly concerned about what everyone thinks about you cora. doesn't seem like a townie mind set to me.

On January 09 2014 03:39 justanothertownie wrote:
This is for rayn:
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 09 2014 03:42 Corazon wrote:

Wave. You called me scum because of a lie you made about what I wrote. It looks ridiculously scummy to me. You blatantly did it and you are still trying to say that it is not important. Just admit that you lied about what I had said. You don't even have to say why.

On January 09 2014 03:48 justanothertownie wrote:

Because what both of you are saying is bullshit and I hate being misrepresented this way. But we can drop this if you want. I don't think stupidity makes you scum.

On January 09 2014 03:50 Corazon wrote:

No that's not the post you twisted my words. It was the one below my first post "Wave that post looks so bad..."

On January 09 2014 03:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I giggled.

On January 09 2014 03:53 justanothertownie wrote:

Sue me. I think you know well that I am not voting anyone right now and I think you also know how this has nothing to do with this post in any way.

On January 09 2014 03:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
Ok I have no idea who to vote and I have to leave in an hour and I won't be back before deadline.. please give thoughts. I don't like any of the kush/corazon/iamp/wos wagons. Undecided on yamato.

On January 09 2014 03:57 Corazon wrote:

You said that I was simply sheeping on the reactions to your first post that Iamp and others said was bad. You called me scum for it and it would have been scummy had I actually been talking about that post. I was talking about the first one that I had quoted in response to mine.

Your story:
You make a post
Iamp/others call it bad
I ask why
You say you are always town
I suddenly realize that your first post was bad
You call me scum because I suddenly realized that the original post was bad, hence I was sheeping Iamp

Real Story:
You make a post
Iamp/others call it bad
I ask why
You say you are always town
I say that the post I mentioned in the point directly above this looks scummy
You call me scum because you lied about which post I called scummy

That is my problem with you.

On January 09 2014 04:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Corazon talks about some irrelevant misunderstanding and still refuses to tell me where thrawn's ultimate contributions to scumhunting were. Lynch with fire.

On January 09 2014 03:57 justanothertownie wrote:

I would LIKE to vote Kush but I have no idea about his alignment. I am undecided about the other wagons.

On January 09 2014 05:24 wherebugsgo wrote:


Sure, everyone gauges reactions, but the manner matters.

Most townies will often confidently push their lynch, even if sometimes they are not truly completely confident, because if their argument is persuasive, then it will gain momentum on its own merits. I do not believe that you are an exception to this.

You pushed a weak case on a player who was obviously not being suspected by many players, if any at all. That he was unsuspected was pretty obvious even though no one actually outright said so. As town, if I had a dissenting opinion and I thought it was important enough to vote the target more than 24 hours into the day I'd probably come back yelling at people to not become complacent and let someone like iamp slip through the cracks as "towny enough". Yet, you didn't do that. You even knew the vote wasn't valid and you didn't bother reaffirming it.

A person's vote in the game is pretty much the only thing we can truly hold them accountable for, because regardless of what they say the vote is what ultimately matters. This is just basics, anyone who has played the game as much as you should know it. I don't think you're a bad player and thus the avenue you took regarding iamp is really scummy.

For anyone who is interested, try reading these following posts and try to guess Yamato's alignment in each. I've pulled almost all of these from day 1s of games in an attempt to keep them mostly homogeneous, though they may come from games of different sizes and types.

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

Many of them only really make sense in context, though (the previous one might be one of those)

With that said, check out his filter from this game as well:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946&user=yamato77&view=all

Notice the tone, try to put yourself in the shoes of the player from both alignments. What makes more sense? The timestamps are also helpful, as they give an insight into activity level.

On January 09 2014 05:43 kushm4sta wrote:
i promise meaningful activity tonight

On January 09 2014 05:46 yamato77 wrote:
@WoS

Did you read Extractor?

That's why I'm demoralized.

On January 09 2014 06:16 wherebugsgo wrote:


Sure, when you yourself analyze your own play you should ask yourself why you got lynched. The blame is not completely on one side or the other, but statistically speaking the onus should be on the voters because they carry more power than the single guy getting lynched. The guy getting lynched is one voice. It's one thing if the lynched player completely failed his own defense, but in retrospect you almost always have multiple townies on lynches. It's just the way the game works.

Also Palmar is historically one of the few, if not the only veteran players on the forum that I know has that opinion. Any good mafia player will tell you to reevaluate your reads after the flip because playing the blame game when the flip happens is a good way to get the town into a downward spiral. You can't blame the player who got lynched because that does not accomplish anything and it does not change anything. Any effort gone into blaming the player would be much better spent actually analyzing what happened and what went wrong, and potentially any pushes from scum that helped cause the lynch in the first place.

As a thought experiment think about what would happen if you have two players who are roughly equal at arguing against one another, but on opposite alignments. This actually seems to occur fairly often in games. I myself have been involved as scum in pretty tense lynch situations. In my first scum game, my team and I managed to prevent me from being lynched by one vote. In almost every other scum game I have gotten into a fight with another townie and successfully gotten him lynched, or helped my team lynch the main wagon (or even control the lynch completely by making only townies the suspects) by exerting my influence. In one game the lynch was between me+Radfield hydra and a hydra of sandroba and chaoser, IIRC, in which sandro+chaoser got lynched. Was it their fault for getting lynched? Definitely not, and I would say especially not given how hard I worked to get them lynched.

This is a bit long-winded but my point is that scum strive for mislynches, that's how they win the game, so often when you have the urge to blame a townie you need to realize that there's lots of information even in a mislynch that will point to where you as an incorrect townie voter went astray and where scum capitalized on these mistakes to carry a mislynch through. The blame game only serves to hide this information so you'll be more likely to repeat yourself again come the next lynch. That's why saying things like "well, we lynch him, and then if we're wrong we just lynch someone else on our list" is fucking stupid, because it's just a very blind and irresponsible way to play the game

On January 09 2014 06:26 wherebugsgo wrote:


I'm not super confident on either side of the lynch, which is sad, but the lynch gives us more to work on than anything else. Supposing he is town, giving Cora time is probably not going to benefit us at all. In fact, the sooner we kill him probably the better at least for town atmosphere regardless of what alignment he is.

on the other hand, giving yamato a day will almost certainly help us read his alignment better, and yamato isn't actively destructive to town. He at worst is about as bad as a scummy lurker-being hard to lynch through subpar activity as opposed to being destructive. And this is all, granted, from what I understand and have witnessed of his play as scum. As town I know he has the potential to be contributory, so assuming he can get over his demoralization he can definitely be an asset. If at the end of night and 12-24 hours into tomorrow he still continues his current trend we can just kill him then.

36 hours is a long time for things to happen, so many things can change by then.

On January 09 2014 06:37 wherebugsgo wrote:


kush is like this literally every game regardless of his alignment.

No one has bothered to provide opinions on kush aside from flaming him, whereas almost everyone in the game has commented on Cora at some point. Regardless of how he flips this gives us something to work with. In addition, I would say that Corazon has been around more often and actually been more detrimental than kush has.

As for gumshoe at this point I don't even know if the mods will let him live. You can't read a player when they haven't bothered to play the game at all. Lynching them is worse than a coin flip.



Okay, let me be blunt.

Your play so far has led me to label you "dumb town".

There are lots of things you've said that have led me to think you are town, but it's more because very few scum would be so careless as to say things so blatantly...well, scummy.

If I had determined that you had that attitude based on an inference, e.g. reaction to a flip or something like that, rather than something you just came out and said, I'd be more likely to label you scum than bad.

On January 09 2014 06:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Yes, and because i am confident i could get him to vote with me even if i could't read him.

On January 09 2014 12:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
Hi WoS. I feel like the thread needs some fresh air.

On January 09 2014 12:27 gumshoe wrote:


Wos, I swear, I literally have nothing on you XD I just feel your scum, dont hate me T_T

On January 09 2014 12:30 thrawn2112 wrote:
At the beginning of all of this I thought gumshoe was scum, but now I don't know. He's displaying the normal townie traits of rudeness, stupidity, and tunnel vision.

well I literally have nothing nice to say, so I'll see you guys later

On January 09 2014 12:32 gumshoe wrote:


Yeah, but thats not the reason Cora didn't vote for him XD

On January 09 2014 22:16 marvellosity wrote:
Calling the Cora lynch a policy lynch or whatever is kinda belittling what the lynch was (or should have been about).

Corazon is a stubborn motherfucker as town and yet in this game he just wasn't.


1.Yes
2.Do what he did
As town he sticks hardcore to whatever his guns are

On January 09 2014 22:28 marvellosity wrote:

Oh yeah! I vaguely remember.

I think I remember seeing Cora make a post about yamato and when iamp (?) asked him why he wrote what he did, he talked about how he didn't want to be suspicious.

These were all good reasons to lynch Cora.

It's why I posted this in obsQT:

marvellosity was signed in when posted
01-08-2014
04:45 PM ET (US)
WoS keeps saying dumb things

"who would you rather have at lylo - kush or cora" is a terrible way to be deciding the lynch at this point

On January 09 2014 22:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Wave you literally laughed my ass off when you posted about kush. haha.

On January 10 2014 11:23 kushm4sta wrote:
Also, a lot of people don't read. They are busy one day, 30 pages behind, and it's just not an effective use of their time to try to read all that. Especially when most of it is spam/conversation.

On January 10 2014 11:57 kushm4sta wrote:
chezinu
oatsmaster
cheesecake
yamato

and that's bs fuba..

On January 11 2014 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
But WC2 was probably one of your best town games i have seen and you were one of the few townies who should not be blamed about the loss. There is no reason to feel demotivated because of that.

On January 11 2014 01:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I can tell you WoS if you are looking for big lynch / play games be prepared to fuck up royally in at least 70% of the time. That's annoying, at least if you are not able to laugh at yourself after the game.

On January 11 2014 01:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:

You were obviously town. I don't have a problem of defending my team on D2, i am more afraid of people i can't possibly lynch in any way. And you being wrong on N1 does not mean you will be wrong at the end of D2.

On January 11 2014 01:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:

We shot ObviousOne because we thought you and him were the most obvious townies for people (at least after the night kill and when people actually re-evaluate D1 and N1). The reason we did not shoot you was because i thought you 100% won a blue role with me & Umasi and i blue-vigged you. But lol, Cephiro?!?!?

On January 11 2014 01:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Well this is what at least i do every game.
It usually also works, if not for my team then for the opposite team. haha

I think in mafia games the biggest flaw for people is that they are afraid to make mistakes.

On January 11 2014 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah i agree with the Desert thing. That was stupid.
But i am impatient and i can't help it.

This is an interesting point. I have always considered it (obviously) from only my perspective, as i assume people are capable of thinking about scum/town motives and i feel like when i do stuff like that i am ALWAYS able to explain why, and why that is the only explanation (town motive) for what i do. But i know, you have a point, different people think differently. I should probably take that into account too.