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On January 26 2014 04:48 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 04:46 austinmcc wrote:VE, I read back over your filter. I read back over Hapa's. Hapa StuffHapa may have wanted to kill WoS today, but he was on your nuts D1. A ton of his D1 is back and forth with you and suspicions on you. HE DID CHANGE HIS MIND. Come N1, he didn't post on you as much, but he appears to be less certain on you, trollpost but also indicates that he doesn't think it's an awful idea to lynch you or find you scummy - + Show Spoiler +On January 23 2014 09:18 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 09:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever just lynch me next, I'll help you guys decide who to lynch after me. Who do we lynch after you? . Hapa has good points on wave, but all of that is AFTER the deadline. So from what I can see, he's scummy on WoS and appears to have come back to scummy on you? He certainly doesn't spend ANY posts defending you during N1 when you were catching some flak for absence. Your FilterI was townie on you D1. But if I'm LOOKING for strange stuff, your reads/votes stuff come off a little janky. You're suspicious of Prome. With reasons. With posts. Also somewhat suspicious of Foolishness, sometimes toying with suspicion on HF. You've got stuff like this: On January 23 2014 02:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't know man, the catchup posts seemed disingenuous, but I'm afraid I'm biased. Based on the posts I'm more willing to admit that I could be wrong about Prome, and yes the alternatives are looking better.
The thing about Prome is that there's no POP to his posts - when he's town, when he thinks he's found something suspicious something clicks and his confidence shoots up and you can see it in his posts. I didn't get that feeling when he was posting about you. But again, I'm not sure how much of it is my own bias speaking.
Foolishness/Sandroba/HolyFlare are three targets who are, in my opinion, well equipped to prove their worth D1 if they're town. That none of them has been able to do this is troubling to me. that indicates you might be worried about Sandroba as well, but you never fully vocalize that for a long time. You're start bugging prome about sandroba shortly before the lynch: On January 23 2014 07:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh man and he comes in in the eleventh hour too. Unreal.
Prome is sandroba scum for that meta thing? Is anyone scum to you? On January 23 2014 07:41 VisceraEyes wrote:
What ranks him higher than sandroba who is A) a lurker and B) trying to get you lynched? Is it just the fact that he's set to be lynched? You think prome is scummy, or are pushing that, yes yes yes. But you've barely said a word about sandroba yourself, AT ALL. You say he can prove his worth, but you never even add the other half of that at any point in the day", he has/hasn't proven his worth. Even BEFORE the voteswap at 10 minutes, there were posts on sandroba. Foolishness's comments on Sandroba got poked at. Sand caught a couple vote/unvotes iirc. And i KNOW you can be asking prome those questions from a townie standpoint, but it feels awkward for you to be bringing up sand without ever speaking YOUR mind on sand, despite, from your earlier post, you probably having a clear scumread on him for not proving himself. I dunno. I don't like those sand posts even though I know they can be read from both sides. I know this post doesn't go anywhere, but I think if you want to vote VE for inactivity/giving up, that's a policy matter. If you want to say he's mafia for his posts, you can do that too. But some people are overconnecting the activity/quitting to scumminess, imo, and they need to find some real justification in his filter for votes. Does that mean you won't be voting for VE, austin? Opposite. Right now I'm mind-voting him.
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On January 26 2014 05:18 VisceraEyes wrote:
I DO TOO HAVE THE BALLS TO DIE FOR MY TOWN! YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU CAD!!! ![[image loading]](http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/410016/sam-cassell-testicle-dance-o.gif)
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I suppose mindvotes do not count
##vote: VisceraEyes
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Mostly afk while cooking delicious foods. Still considering. I don't think I'm straying from VE and Foolishness today. Don't want to vote Toad right now, so if I strayed it would be possible WoS (weird townread on VE, some posts with a small quantity of meat (same applies to Foolishness), and he also +1ed Foolishness's "sandroba active now so he's probably townie" statement).
Kita is entirely off my radar in a bad way, I have not chatted with him today like I wanted to, and when I think of his filter this game, nothing particularly good or bad springs to mind. He's also still the probably candidate for a Foolishness partner, i THINK.
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Yes.
On January 26 2014 05:39 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 05:35 austinmcc wrote:
Mostly afk while cooking delicious foods. Still considering. I don't think I'm straying from VE and Foolishness today. Don't want to vote Toad right now, so if I strayed it would be possible WoS (weird townread on VE, some posts with a small quantity of meat (same applies to Foolishness), and he also +1ed Foolishness's "sandroba active now so he's probably townie" statement).
Kita is entirely off my radar in a bad way, I have not chatted with him today like I wanted to, and when I think of his filter this game, nothing particularly good or bad springs to mind. He's also still the probably candidate for a Foolishness partner, i THINK. Can you show me that? On January 23 2014 04:41 WaveofShadow wrote:
And for the record I probably am probably scummier on inactive Foolishness than inactive sandroba. Could be bias because I have precedent in PYP for sandroba in terms of an early game lurk then blasting onto the scene, but as was mentioend before (I forget by who atm?) sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around, whereas Foolishness basically hasn't talked to anyone, he just threw stuff and fucked off multiple times.
It's not about saying one scummier than other. It's about saying "like someone else said, sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around." I was the guy he was talking to. I got a couple posts from him, all of them not quite about what I was asking, and then he dipped. Not so much a +1 as I LOVE THIS, but a +1 like..."someone brought this up and it carries weight with my read."
At this point,On January 26 2014 06:07 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 06:03 gonzaw wrote:
So Toad, you are happy with any of VE or Foo getting lynched today then?
I'd really like your thoughts on VE I haven't looked into VE yet and like I said, I want to see how he changes tomorrow. But VE makes sense given the situation we're in assuming my read on Foo is right. I'd much rather lynch Foo before lynching into VE because of nothing but "because he'd make sense together with Foo" if Foo hasn't even flipped yet...
I haven't looked into VE yet is NOT AN OPTION/EXCUSE/WHATEVER. If you want VE alive tomorrow, you gotta do something about it. If you don't care, you're fine not to read him.
But not looking into one of two main lynch candidates because you want to read his posts tomorrow is smelly. Why do you care if he changes tomorrow if you haven't looked into his D1/N1/D2? How are you going to know if ANYTHING changes? What sort of change are you looking for if you have no basis/read to work from?
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On January 26 2014 06:45 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, can someone tell me why Wave isn't town based on his activity so far?
Need I remind you he has the 2nd largest filter (after me)? And 10 pages of it happened this D2?
You guys think he can still be scum based on that?
Maybe he wants to prove a point as scum, that you should never surrender and keep going on? Or something?
Like I really want to know.
At the very least I want to know how he's a better lynch than Toad, or VE, etc
This goes...for everybody basically (Foo, Toad and austin) A lot of his filter is his GIANT posts. The size doesn't necessarily equate to content though. His giant giant posts are VE is town, Prome is scum.
But his reasons for VE being town are kinda murky, and he spends boatloads and boatloads of time on all these little things that make Prome scum, despite Prome being pretty much off the table (it would seem for WoS as well? I have not seen him pushing Prome lately).
So while there's a lot, a bunch of it is stuff that nobody really believes, and it picks up after we lynch a mafia. You can say he's responding to pressure by posting a bunch, either side can do that (I know not all mafia do, but I know I've gone post-crazy as mafia, and we don't have a good example of WoS's scumplay so it's unknown). Maybe it's knowing that town lynched mafia D1 and WoS/buddy need to kick things into gear and take control.
Add in Hapa and others finding his D1 scummy. Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists.
Also just minor nitpicky stuff. Putting some credence in the argument that sandroba was around and active.
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On January 26 2014 07:08 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, who will be active here until deadline?
Foolishness, and who else?
Prome, will you be here? Toad, kita, austin? ...VE? Nope. Packing up food now, headed to a cookoff.
I will have pictures to prove, if necessary.
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On January 26 2014 07:14 Foolishness wrote:This post is me talking as co-runner of the TL mafia forum, and should not be taken seriously regards to what is happening in this game.Don't bring Shadows into the argument or the fact that this is a coaching game when you are talking to someone. This is a game being played primarily for educational purposes so that everyone (including us playing right now) can learn something and get better. Posts like these: Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 04:20 austinmcc wrote:On January 26 2014 04:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
If you want. Am I going to take it the wrong way? Be prepared for me to take it the wrong way. I don't actually want you to post anything, but wtf does your shadow QT look like if you're going to be apathetic already on D2? You're not just town or scum, you're town or scum and sharing your thoughts on the game with someone this game. I think that makes it markedly different than any normal game you could ragequit or be apathetic in. You're not coaching, but you're...at least opening up your thoughts to someone. But you're content to just...give up? are not and will not be tolerated (and this isn't the only post I've seen so far). This kind of attitude will not be tolerated from anyone, and you should be ashamed of yourself for bringing up these kind of arguments. We all respect each other here, and any sort of disrespect not only makes you look bad but also sets a bad precedence for the future. We all love each other, so be loving when talking to someone else <3 Understood.
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On January 26 2014 07:11 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:10 austinmcc wrote:On January 26 2014 07:08 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, who will be active here until deadline?
Foolishness, and who else?
Prome, will you be here? Toad, kita, austin? ...VE? Nope. Packing up food now, headed to a cookoff. I will have pictures to prove, if necessary. Quick: You still wanna vote VE after Foo's new "entrance"? Because you, WoS and marvy won't be around. Those are 3 votes we'll lose, which maybe, maybe we could need to decide the lynch more near the deadline Yeah. 100% certain on that answer? No. But right now I think I'm happy with it, despite it not seeming likely that VE and Foolishness are scum together and each having decent reasons for being mafia.
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gg VE
On January 26 2014 11:58 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 06:29 Toadesstern wrote:
hey VE, if you're still there, do what WoS asked you to do.
Start quoting what got you angry. I don't care what it is, start doing so. This and one of Toad's posts earlier struck me as buddying considering I was nigh unlynchable at that point, but I am going to leave that thought behind and move forward, because more than anything he was right. Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 06:35 austinmcc wrote:Yes. On January 26 2014 05:39 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 26 2014 05:35 austinmcc wrote:
Mostly afk while cooking delicious foods. Still considering. I don't think I'm straying from VE and Foolishness today. Don't want to vote Toad right now, so if I strayed it would be possible WoS (weird townread on VE, some posts with a small quantity of meat (same applies to Foolishness), and he also +1ed Foolishness's "sandroba active now so he's probably townie" statement).
Kita is entirely off my radar in a bad way, I have not chatted with him today like I wanted to, and when I think of his filter this game, nothing particularly good or bad springs to mind. He's also still the probably candidate for a Foolishness partner, i THINK. Can you show me that? On January 23 2014 04:41 WaveofShadow wrote:
And for the record I probably am probably scummier on inactive Foolishness than inactive sandroba. Could be bias because I have precedent in PYP for sandroba in terms of an early game lurk then blasting onto the scene, but as was mentioend before (I forget by who atm?) sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around, whereas Foolishness basically hasn't talked to anyone, he just threw stuff and fucked off multiple times.
It's not about saying one scummier than other. It's about saying "like someone else said, sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around." I was the guy he was talking to. I got a couple posts from him, all of them not quite about what I was asking, and then he dipped. Not so much a +1 as I LOVE THIS, but a +1 like..."someone brought this up and it carries weight with my read." At this point, On January 26 2014 06:07 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 06:03 gonzaw wrote:
So Toad, you are happy with any of VE or Foo getting lynched today then?
I'd really like your thoughts on VE I haven't looked into VE yet and like I said, I want to see how he changes tomorrow. But VE makes sense given the situation we're in assuming my read on Foo is right. I'd much rather lynch Foo before lynching into VE because of nothing but "because he'd make sense together with Foo" if Foo hasn't even flipped yet... I haven't looked into VE yet is NOT AN OPTION/EXCUSE/WHATEVER. If you want VE alive tomorrow, you gotta do something about it. If you don't care, you're fine not to read him. But not looking into one of two main lynch candidates because you want to read his posts tomorrow is smelly. Why do you care if he changes tomorrow if you haven't looked into his D1/N1/D2? How are you going to know if ANYTHING changes? What sort of change are you looking for if you have no basis/read to work from? So austin, does that mean I am your primary target now that VE is gone? I'm honestly shocked at how you have me so high up on your scum list after our talk last night. Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 06:51 austinmcc wrote:On January 26 2014 06:45 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, can someone tell me why Wave isn't town based on his activity so far?
Need I remind you he has the 2nd largest filter (after me)? And 10 pages of it happened this D2?
You guys think he can still be scum based on that?
Maybe he wants to prove a point as scum, that you should never surrender and keep going on? Or something?
Like I really want to know.
At the very least I want to know how he's a better lynch than Toad, or VE, etc
This goes...for everybody basically (Foo, Toad and austin) A lot of his filter is his GIANT posts. The size doesn't necessarily equate to content though. His giant giant posts are VE is town, Prome is scum. But his reasons for VE being town are kinda murky, and he spends boatloads and boatloads of time on all these little things that make Prome scum, despite Prome being pretty much off the table (it would seem for WoS as well? I have not seen him pushing Prome lately). So while there's a lot, a bunch of it is stuff that nobody really believes, and it picks up after we lynch a mafia. You can say he's responding to pressure by posting a bunch, either side can do that (I know not all mafia do, but I know I've gone post-crazy as mafia, and we don't have a good example of WoS's scumplay so it's unknown). Maybe it's knowing that town lynched mafia D1 and WoS/buddy need to kick things into gear and take control. Add in Hapa and others finding his D1 scummy. Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists. Also just minor nitpicky stuff. Putting some credence in the argument that sandroba was around and active. You're 100% right that the giant posts don't necessarily equate to good content. The point wasn't for them to necessarily be solid airtight cases, they were to showcase thought process. I would have hoped I've gotten that across by now but apparently not because there are still a LOT of doubters. As for Prome I mentioned I wanted Foolishness and Toad lynched before Prome so there was no point in pushing him the rest of the day as he wasn't getting lynched. It's in my filter somewhere. Does all of that stuff you've talked about really overshadow my effort and contributions for the past day enough to put me as the number 1 scum suspect going into day 3? There isn't a whole lot more I'm going to be able to do than what I've done already, so if no amount of effort is going to prove anything to you, then I would posit that you're not properly considering the most simple case scenario, which is that I am town, I am not concerned with what people read in my filter (hence the massive amount of posting) and I am putting forth the utmost effort to win this game. you are considering only the mafia options and what's unfortunate is you're not even the worst offender in that regard. 'Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists.' My D2 was DAMN good, and you know that. Leave the bias at the door and help me lynch scum. Don't believe you're my primary target. I think Foolishness's post on you is legit, but you don't jump that high. If your calling VE town was a bit stranger, or I didn't know you guys have played a bunch together, then you might get top billing.
Effort = townie only goes so far with me. We don't have ANY comparison of recent scum play for you. I know that, personally, I can get REALLY active as scum. I know I'm not the only person EVER to do this. Especially when my team is in a terrible spot (last guy alive in PTP Demon's Run, late game in Chrono Trigger, etc.), a bunch of posting is easy because you post or you die. I think people are making too much of your activity, and should judge you on your actual contributions and not post count or post length, because they have pretty much no idea how you would normally play scum.
I think you're ... going way too far with this. "Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists" is an ENTIRELY valid statement, it's true, and people shouldn't scumhunt day by day and forget anything old. I assume that you agree with this, yes?
On January 26 2014 23:21 WaveofShadow wrote:
He said his weekend activity suffers; I don't have huge reason to question that since his activity in this game WAS better during the week.
Alright so if there was one (or for bonus derp points, two) scum on sandroba, which would be the most likely and why? marv gave his answer, which is good as far as answers-from-marv go, but at least for me personally, marv is a much better answer than I am to this question. He's more than happy to kill off scumbuddies when he thinks he needs to, a marv of EITHER alignment is not really expecting scum sandroba to be of much value to the scum team (and so scum marv would be OKAY with killing him off, cuz if Sandroba had an AFK N1/D2, he was very likely to be lynched D2).
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On January 27 2014 07:28 gonzaw wrote:
austin, you think WoS had no contributions on D2? I mean, I think when we all said "he put lots of effort" we meant "he put lots of meaningful effort". I think he had some good contributions.
I think he has a lot of filler-y contributions.
I think that everyone is happy to say "active/contribute-y" and nobody yet has really dug into what % of posts falls into which category. Heck, SOME of the posts swapping reads on WoS weren't "he had a lot of good contributions," but were instead specifically billed as "he's putting in too much effort to be mafia."
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On January 27 2014 07:29 marvellosity wrote:
hey austin, no hard feelings buddy. Jeez :p
I would say, austin, that some of your last-man-standing type efforts have actually been some of the most unique things I've seen from TL mafia players. So while you may have a sprinkling of a point with your effort thingy, if you're extrapolating from yourself then I'm not sure that's a correct thing to do or expect ^^
I think the only person I've ever see post that many pages in one phase/cycle as mafia is rayn. I may well be. I've seen bursts of activity from other players, but also just not that many last-man-standing situations, tbh.
Nah nah, no hard feelings, but you know that you're willing to drop scumbuddies, especially ones that have...weak scumgames, and you know you're willing to jump on a lynch early if you think that's better than waiting around to see what will happen.
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the answers-from-marv-go means that, as either alignment, you're not going to say yourself. That leaves you just gonzaw/austin/prome, so I'm a logical choice for #1 or #2 on your list.
Same just happens to be true from my point of view 
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On January 27 2014 07:32 gonzaw wrote:
Also about that "effort".
In PTP Demon's run, you ended up with a 14 page filter in 12 days of game.
In this game, WoS has 13 pages of filter in 6 days of game so far
I'd say it's quite different....perhaps Yeah. Most of that filter is the last 3-4 days though. The first...5 or 6 or even more game days, I was pretty horribly inactive. If you remember, I spent an ENTIRE CYCLE afk I think and just posted a dumb vote with 10 minutes or something left in the day. Things weren't bad for my team, didn't have to bust ass.
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On January 27 2014 07:42 marvellosity wrote:
austin, question for you: do you think Fool's certainty on Wave is warranted? No, I can't go that far. Especially with foolishness also being iffy on alignment at this point, but even if we knew he was town, I'd be less certain than Foolishness and unsure how foolishness can be so certain.
I just have a love affair with the unpopular opinion, and so the one guy going "no, there are some legitimate reasons WoS could be/is scum" appeals to me, whereas, even if Gonzaw isn't, there HAVE been posts that purely equate WoS's filter length/effort with townieness.
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On January 27 2014 07:50 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2014 07:44 austinmcc wrote:On January 27 2014 07:42 marvellosity wrote:
austin, question for you: do you think Fool's certainty on Wave is warranted? No, I can't go that far. Especially with foolishness also being iffy on alignment at this point, but even if we knew he was town, I'd be less certain than Foolishness and unsure how foolishness can be so certain. I just have a love affair with the unpopular opinion, and so the one guy going "no, there are some legitimate reasons WoS could be/is scum" appeals to me, whereas, even if Gonzaw isn't, there HAVE been posts that purely equate WoS's filter length/effort with townieness. it's a lazy way of saying something. gonzaw gave reasons well enough. You could say "he has a massive filter and that is townie purely for effort". Or you can extrapolate a little and say "he has a massive filter and on balance his posting within this have left me feeling pretty good" or "he has a massive filter and his posts feel townie and i can't see him pushing an agenda" Also in a vacuum, 95% of people who post that much in a phase/cycle are town. Now I pulled that figure right out my ass, but you get the idea. Oddly it's actually one of my weaknesses. rayn in ## was one of the few times i lynched a really active mafia, because in general i tend to find filter length a massive town indicator, and early in games I tend to go for quieter, lurkier scumplayers, and later in games i tend not to be alive. It's a lazy way of saying something, but given the choice of "effort = townieness" and "these contributory posts = townieness", the first is not just lazy but is ALSO the more likely thing to come from mafia that were happy with where WoS was going into N1/D2 and then unhappy when he started getting super post happy and reads started changing.
I know either alignment can say it, it's shorthand. But if you want to hand-wave a scummy lean on WoS away, you can just say "MINNY POSTS GG TOWNWAVE," and when a couple people do that, maybe scum is in there.
Besides, it's lazy of ME to just say "no, some people just said # of posts = townie" and not actually go find those posts. I don't have any non-lazy ground to stand on.
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I don't expect to die tonight. If I do, I'm mostly waiting to see the NK before messing hard with any reads.
Just gut stupid stuff right now:
If I die, take marv SLIGHTLY scummier on your lists. In terms of "people who might kill austinmcc," he's up there. I'm almost always suspicious of him, I almost always fight him on things. I don't see any PARTICULAR reasons for people to kill me, and as far as anyone who gains from me being dead, marv who thinks I might be on his ass later gets that out of the way.
I DO think Foolishness's post on WoS has some legit points. No, I don't want to lynch WoS tomorrow right now.
Brussels sprouts + bacon + bourbon/apple cider vinegar reduction sauce is GOOD. Everyone go cook.
That's...not a lot of thoughts.
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On January 27 2014 07:55 gonzaw wrote:
Arggh I read Prome's filter and get confused. I can see the stuff Wave and VE posted about him, some stuff can be constructed as scummy. His lack of activity this weekend (based on IRL) doesn't help.
But then it confuses me because of the sandro shit, his jump on sandro's vote, and the fact that if Foo flips scum he just has to be town.
Dunno wtf to think of him. Just leave him be until LYLO I guess, then get all tin-foil hat wonky Eh. It's not all tinfoil hat. To some extent, sandroba is just KNOWN as a lazy scum player. He's GOING TO DIE in a game like this.
The best thing scum sandroba can do, if he's not going to play, is to maybe try and make a scumbuddy look good? It's not PURE conspiracy, it's not pure confusing, would be interesting to see who scum sandroba normally targets, town or mafia.
On January 27 2014 07:57 gonzaw wrote:
Anyways, before the clock hits midnight, you guys have any thoughts about the shit I posted last page? Mostly about that stuff I said about Holy back on D1. Austin, do you still believe it doesn't really matter much?
Marv, you used it as a good argument to think Holy was scum, then backed out when he made that "I sub out" post. After reading what I posted again, do you still think it's valid or not? I still believe it doesn't really matter much. Some of the townreads I get in games are based off specific things a person does, and no matter what ELSE happens, they still did the thing that I think only comes from town. It's not QUITE that strong in this game as some townreads have been in recent games, but it's strong.
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On January 27 2014 08:02 marvellosity wrote:
austin, you know that brainz thing is a big load of bullshit, right? You know that I don't
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EPT
