[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia - Page 8

On January 25 2014 01:35 gonzaw wrote:
Actually it's the anti-LI.
Did VE tell you to do that? If so he's a boss lol

On January 25 2014 01:40 kitaman27 wrote:
On a side note, I hate the fact that the name Foolishness can't be easily shortened. I suppose I could start calling him Fool, but then people wouldn't know if I'm referring to him or VE.

On January 25 2014 01:44 gonzaw wrote:
WOS, what worries me is your lack of doubt.
You are just assuming VE is town. The stuff you posted is not alignment indicative at all basically, but you attribute subjective value to it. Your wording shows that basically.
Then you have lots of people with cases on VE, posting stuff about him, telling you "Hey, maybe VE is not town".
I'd think you'd reconsider VE, take into account town sentiment, etc. But you straight up jump to "VE is so so town" (even if you aren't saying it, you are heavily implying it).
I don't understand how you don't even leave the possibility of VE being scum open, again, considering how unconvincing most of your defense of VE was.

Your defense on VE is based on nitpicking some posts of his, and showing in a contrived manner how, maybe, perhaps, in your opinion, from your own experience, can come from town VE. Every single one of your points is like that.

I find it kind of hard to believe WOS, unless you are having some of weird anxiety attack or something? Dunno

On January 25 2014 01:31 gonzaw wrote:

Yes it is. But with good reason.

That's misdirection. The current discussion has nothing to do with you defending VE or whatever, it's you pushing that ridiculous scumteam.

Anyways, you still think those 3 are scum? Did my "reality check" make you try to rethink it or anything?


I prefer AC/DC to be honest.

On January 25 2014 02:23 austinmcc wrote:
I do but I also need to get brussels sprouts. So I run errands.

Also, you're doing a lot of talking and a lot of "this is too much talking."

If you want to chat about hypothetical Gonzaw-scum world, yippee. If you want to pick marv or kita, and read a little of them, or grill ME about them/one of them, mostly yippee. I've come up with some topics, promise, you just think they silly/too much work.

On January 25 2014 02:26 marvellosity wrote:
Be more interesting if he did you tbh.

On January 23 2014 04:01 austinmcc wrote:
WoS, you around?

Gonzaw, I don't think we can be sure what nobody defending HolyFlare means, but I think in the bigger context of this game, we can't get too much from that. Nobody is defending Foolishness either (I might, yeah, think I will), nobody really popped up to defend WoS or Prome while they were getting more attention, and for the most part it's people dropping off "x is scummy" after they've posted more, not actively pushing "WoS or Prome super town."

Just not a ton of defending this game in general, imo.

Gonzaw, 2 question to start off since you're active right now.You keep poking at Foolishness's past games. Do these things, dinky votes, horrible entrances, pointless posts, fit with scum Foolish? Also, honest question, if someone did these things vs did NOTHING, no votes, no real posts to be scummy or townie, etc, which player would you find scummier?

On January 25 2014 02:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, I would contribute, but I've been told that my suspects are off limits so I'm kinda at a loss as to what I even CAN do to prove my innocence. Maybe a story?

On January 21 2014 22:05 Holyflare wrote:


You used a post from a player that has had 0 contribution to the game as a platform for you to further your paradigm of VE. Not only is that strange but you do not question HOW he could have those reads (something you absolutely should because how else do you learn about another player's mindset?) The only thing you question is his read on wave. You should absolutely not be happy when someone calls you or someone else town for no reasoning and should be questioning it as you have been questioning mostly everything for the entirety of the game.

---

As for the rest of the thread:





I don't understand why this conversation was ended around here. We absolutely should be pushing everyone and not letting them ignore posts and accusations directed at them. It's a team game where we have to demonstrate our townieness to each other. Why should we let a player not participate in the game just because he gets better later when in fact we have the potential to learn more about his alignment today? This sentiment was echoed by hapa BUT THEN TOTALLY CONTRADICTED AS WELL.





I don't understand the mindset behind this. You suggest we find his alignment by way of pressure but then give into the sentiment of other players of which you do not know the alignment of and say that we should not pressure him because he won't respond instead of taking the initiative of your confirmed alignment to yourself and pressuring sandroba yourself. This isn't something a townie mindset does at all. I'm interested to hear your reasoning before I put my vote down on you though because there's no reason being hasty.

---

That being said the thing that stuck out to me the most was VE's posts and vote on Prome. I actually agree with much of what he has said and I do not get the motive behind happa's line of questioning.

Hapa mentioned:



Why do you assume that it is retroactive justification instead of new evidence coming to light after a troll vote? What he was saying made sense and prome's opening post seemed like it was pre-written before he even read any of the game. I'll get into this later when I have the time and get back but for now I'll leave you to talk about what i've said above.

On January 21 2014 23:07 Holyflare wrote:



Why Foolishness over sandroba? They have both posted nothing. Your goal is clearly to lynch a lurker today so why are you going to ignore the rest of what has happened on day 1 when your intentions are already set in stone?

On January 22 2014 06:13 Holyflare wrote:


I do not want to participate in a discussion based on a person with 4 posts, it is futile. Foolishness has posted nothing and gonzaw is spending his entire time focusing on that person. I want to know what Gonzaw is like in other games, does he tunnel like that, does he declare he is not reading the thread till he gets home only to still spend his time on futile research? These are all questions I would like to know the answers to based on people's previous games with him. Just because he has put effort in and has posted does not make him towny. I asked that question specifically to kita because I think me and him are on the same wavelength (he asked gonzaw how long it took him to do the foolishness meta post - what I assumed to be seeing how he was allocating time) and I would like him to elaborate on his thoughts.

I have no attitude towards foolishness other than my dislike for his unexplained reads. It's not scummy, it's not towny, I want to know his reasonings before I take my read further. Could he be scum? Yes. Could he be town? Yes. I do not know and cannot know until he posts, so of course my attitude to him would be a net null read.

On January 23 2014 03:08 Holyflare wrote:
I don't get why people are picking up on me attacking hapa who "looked towny", he had contradictions in a thought process that I picked up on and questioned.

Either way, I apologise for my lack of playing this game. I fully expected to be able to contribute time but my circumstances changed on the day the game started and so each and every single one of my posts has been posted from my phone, I was just picking up on points that I thought were contradictary and the such, no "aggression" is intended it's just how I post (Hogwarts I got called out for being aggressive as scum so there is no way I would ever try and look like that in a game again as scum).

Either way, my initial read was on gonzaw being scummy because of his time allocation, that subsequently changed based on his responses and although I mention the repeated bastardisation and misconstruing of my posts that increasingly (as he kept doing it and still is) looks more and more like a tunneled towny and so I used my time to defend myself from him so as to divulge my thought processes and vindicate myself to the person that I think is towny (from the people that I have focused on). I thought hapa was looking scummy because of his contradictions but his response to me made me back off of that.

I can't delve into quotes and things like I normally would but please please look at when gonzaw posted that "case" (that I said was heavily misconstrued) on me. The responses that meekly followed that said "yeh, that's true" and "hmmm yeh I can see that" should be heavily scrutinised as they were, like was just said, not backed up by votes.

Like I said at the start, you shouldn't let people who get better later "sandroba AND foolishness (although he has posted now)" sit back, they should be entirely pressured. Sandroba even went so far as to get a good ++ (I think?) from foolishness??? despite his less than 1 page filter with nothing contributary in.


Either way, I've asked to be subbed out so have fun.

On January 25 2014 02:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
And I'm not even going to be around to be all "NAH GUYS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WE'RE BROTHERS!"

On January 24 2014 06:26 Toadesstern wrote:

like I said, I'm reading. Time spent posting is time spent not reading right now...

But we can talk a little if you want, I spent the last hours and I'm getting a headache so I need something else to do for now or I'm going crazy. I read everything from the point I replaced in. From the people that seem to be worth looking into I really don't see foolishness being mafia.
As far as I've come, I liked his posts and agreed with most of it, I liked his thought process when he pointed it out and when he didn't I found myself knowing what he's getting at because I had the same idea when reading something.
VE is weird but I'd lean town on him so far. Town-VE is a man who likes to go on an adventure and posts like he doesn't give a crap. He posts weird, he posts stuff that makes people go "wat?" and all that kind of stuff. Mafia VE restrains himself more because he knows he has to and I'm not seeing that.
Not sure about Kita yet, he's all over the place.
WoS certainly the one I'd want lynched the most atm. Some stuff I didn't like about him.

So pretty much start from the bottom and work my way up.
Other than that I do have some beef with Hapa but he seems not to be an option right now due to votings so I'll trust you guys on that one until I'm done reading.

Anything you want to talk about in specific?
I'm not going to ramble or hypnotoad this game if you're looking forward (?) to that. Kind of got myself lynched as town (like actively, not passivly...) in the last game I played on d1 because I couldn't stand talking to rayn anymore and he kept tunneling everyone no matter what... so main goal right now is to make sure that doesn't happen again.

On January 24 2014 08:22 Toadesstern wrote:

well I'm missing out on some 10 or so pages inbetween but yeah I guess.

I don't really see a conundrum on Foolishness to be honest. I'd rather lynch into one of you five guys than Foolish atm. I really do not think he'd behave the way he did before deadline if he knew Sandro was mafia so either he played withough knowing his alignment or he's just town.

On January 25 2014 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:

I'd actually like to take that back. No idea what I was thinking yesterday... Had the whole voteswitch happening over a longer time period in my head and after rereading some of the posts Foolish did I just don't think they're that alignment indicative as it seemed on first look.

Like when he mentioned that if he's mafia he has no plan to win because he's limiting the lynch candidates. Same thing can be said about Kita and myself and VE certainly doesn't look like he's having any kind of longterm plan whatsoever either. The exception here's WoS as he still holds firmly on this prom lynch he wants to get, only ever so slightly hinting at maybe being willing to lynch Foolishness a little more but not actually doing so.

checking out his filter atm, you'll get something from me in a while.

On January 25 2014 01:32 Toadesstern wrote:


what's the truth. VE being mafia and you being wrong? Why didn't you say so from the beginning instead of doing those 2 wall of texts telling everyone how town he is for things that are in your opinion most likely not alignment indicative.

On January 25 2014 02:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Kita has a few big posts that have very little in the way of conclusions. Any that do have conclusions have the word "null" attached to them...."leaning townie null" or "scummy null" etc. Doesn't make him scum, but doesn't make him contributory either.

He was NOT on sandroba, but WAS around.

His largest post in the thread is his combinatrics post.

Flashes onto minions to steal farm.

Could maybe lynch.

On December 24 2013 13:57 gonzaw wrote:
Hello guys. Nice to finally start the game! :D

I think marv is being very suspicious, here:



Everybody knows Hapa was just trolling, like all trolling town do on early D1. You know, have some banter, some chats, random vote, etc, the usual stuff. It happens every game, we all know townies who do that to try and pass the time and have some fun early D1, or maybe to even get the ball rolling and get people to post and react.
Marv should know this. Like...it's part of the TL Mafia "meta": derpy townies on D1. Yet marv instantly jumps on Hapahauli the first instance he can, just because of that? And he seems so sure about it?
Really? I don't buy it



This is just hilarious.
Trust me, this is not "Classic scum Foolishness". If Foo' was scum, I'd know by now. Or at least, I wouldn't have such a strong townread on him. He's been posting very actively, being part of discussions, and in general trying to enforce some order in this D1. Scum Foo doesn't do that. Scum Foo lurks a little bit, posts some (kind of bad) suspicions on people and that's it.
Even more, marv doesn't even attempt to defend himself against Foo's accusations (which I agree with, see previous quote), he just OMGUSes him and tries to deflect attention.

Yeah...this is no town marv.

I think the bonfire does not want green blood today marvy-marv. Would you like to get closer to it a little bit? Why? Oh, nothing, I think I saw a coin in there....yes....go closer....yes more more.

##Vote: marvellosity

Oh, btw, yeah any Self-Aware Miller should obviously claim. Don't waste pages and pages discussing that shit, everybody knows that by now.
Also, yeah blabla "lurkers are bad", "we should policy lynch lurkers and inactives" bla bla, we all heard it before so let's cut the crap and lynch marv.

On January 25 2014 03:31 gonzaw wrote:
Here Wave, I'll make your Foo+Holy/Toad case for you:



Holy is like 100% scum for him initially.



However Foo doesn't talk or do anything regarding Holy for like 24 more hours, where he backs out ONLY based on the sub thing, and nothing else (i.e forgets the previous case)

+ Show Spoiler +

But now he wants him lynched as well? Second to Prome in a wishy washy manner of course.



In the italics, he calls him "good lynch", yet in the bolded he backs out again in a wishy-washy manner?
How can you say "I could also just be reading too much into this" if you just called him "good lynch" and are saying "He's a very good lynch I wouldn't mind him dead" and the like all the time?



This is his last thoughts on the matter at the end of the day basically. Prome and Holy NEED to die. Yet his vote is on Prome, never even considers changing it to Holy (only saying "Yeah! If it comes down to it I will surely vote Holy of course!" when pressured and the like), and even backed out of Holy before so is he still wanting to lynch him or not?
Anyways, before sandro died, he wanted Prome and Holy dead.

What about after sandro died?
Here is his 3rd page of his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137&user=Foolishness&currentpage=2
Check from this post basically: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137&currentpage=44#872

Now CTRL+F Holy and Toad.

Here are the results:
Holy:





Toad:

That's it. Those are the ONLY mentions of his 2nd scumread. Sorry, LEAD scumread (after backing out of Prome), all of N1 and D2.

How so? Well, remember this post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137&currentpage=46#914

In this post Foolishness proves Promethelax is town. Therefore, Foo stops chasing Promethelax. Makes sense.
That post, and posterior posts of his though, make little mention of the non-sandro voters though.

So, check this again:

Foo's 2 SUPER HEAVY scumreads are Prome and Holy. Sandro dies, he "exonerates" Prome...
...so what about Holy?
Nothing. He even says stuff like

Foo, shouldn't YOU be advocating Holy is mafia....since you know...HE SHOULD BE YOUR LEAD MAFIA CANDIDATE NOW?

No mentions of Toad either, just in passing.

Woudln't a Foolishness+sandro+Holy scumteam make sense?
Think about it: Holy has IRL issues and can't be active. Holy was AFK for most of the day (just was posting early D1 nothing else). Most likely, in scumland, he was AFK as well.
sandro was AFK too. So, the ONLY active scum is Foolishness.
That does seem to make sense right? Foo is alone to fight town. Therefore, all the votes piling on him without "resistance" isn't really a problem, since only town is active in the thread (sandro and Holy are afk, thus can't do shit) and only town is voting in the thread.
When sandro does come back though, he tries to save Foo somewhat by going against Prome who had 2 votes at the time.

Holy voted me (and not Prome for instance). Here is his vote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137&currentpage=41#807
The votecount at that time was 5-Foolishness and 4-Prome. You could say scum Holy would vote Prome to save Foo right? But then again, that'd basically make him out himself. Holy didn't do anything, had no scum reads. Why the hell would he randomly vote Prome? It would make no sense and out him as scum. This he takes the safe route out and wastes his vote. Foo had the most votes at that time, and even if Holy voted Prome it'd be 5v5, with Foo still getting lynched (because he had 5 votes first).

It could also make more sense of his actions "confirming" the townies and acting pro-town. He says so himself, the only suspects left would be Wave, VE, kita and Toad. But, he, and we as well, are focusing on VE, Wave and kita. Those could be 3 misslynches, before we get to Holy. Scum wins with 3 mislynches, so it's a viable strategy for scum Foo to act "pro-town", make sense, confirm those townies, etc. That way he makes us all believe he is town (so we don't lynch him), and he uses his influence to avoid getting Toad lynched. Hell, maybe after this he backs out of his "these guys are confirmed town" read and goes after marv or Prome again (when town starts to panic and get paranoid)

..........did I just convince myself of this?
Fuck if I know
Fuck this game, I'm going to watch cats on youtube.

On January 23 2014 09:54 WaveofShadow wrote:

Ehhhhh....I see what you mean but then he also sets up his replacement to look like absolute shit in the opposite case. I imagine if he was scum a host would still tell him to vote, and I know I certainly wouldn't lie as either alignment.

On January 25 2014 03:45 Toadesstern wrote:

you didn't even read it. IT had nothing to do with him being unmotivated but with him faking.

He SOUNDED unmotivated in that one specific post, his entrance post when he should not have. He should have sounded delighted to be town, like he said. What he said and how he said it didn't add up.

I'm not making a case on him being unmotivated, I'm making a case about how he's not making sense in the way he's talking and constantly has posts that read like a farce, like the two big posts about VE, like the opening posts. What he posts and how he reacts are completly off in those posts.

On January 25 2014 03:50 Toadesstern wrote:

how is
not unmotivated. That's the most whatever-post I've ever read. If he actually is happy to have rolled town he would have posted something different, probably even something stupid just to express that, instead he just goes with his "usual" opening without anything at all.

He's either lying about being happy to have rolled town, which I don't see a reason for either alignment to lie about.
Or this post doesn't add up with what he's saying.