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You sure you've been reading this cycle? I spelled out my reasons for not finding WoS scummy earlier.
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On January 28 2014 08:10 Promethelax wrote:Filter page count Toad: 5 Fool: 5 Marv: 13 Austin: 9 Kita: 10 Me: 5 WoS: 14 Based on this I'd say at least one of Fool/Toad is scum. It is a rough measuring stick but since I have reason to town read the four players with double the post count of myself and the above players it isn't a bad reason to start there. I know that some scum make sure to have at least as many posts as the bottom tier townie and since there are three of us with 5 posts everyone can see that at least one townie has that post count. Since I have my own role pm I can eliminate me from the proceedings. This chart shall dictate the order I read filters in 1. Toad 2. Fool 3. Kita 4. + Show Spoiler [WoS] +Again by sheer dint of effort I find it very unlikely that WoS is scum. He said some things about VE which were so out of left field dumb (as scum) that he has to be town. + Show Spoiler +His comments that at most only one of them was scum are telling, when he, as scum, knows VE will flip town those bet hedging posts are awful. He wasn't sure enough of a town VE for him to be scum. He hedged his bets to save face, to be able to say "well, I had my doubts" if VE flipped. Not to gain towncred from his correct read In my head WoS is cleared. I may not bother to read his filter but instead interact with him
I didn't say anything else on day two. His activity was enough reason not to lynch him that day.
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On January 29 2014 00:50 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 00:30 Promethelax wrote:On January 29 2014 00:25 austinmcc wrote:On January 29 2014 00:20 Promethelax wrote:
I need the insight into you and some help from my favourite conspiracy nut in determining whether my insanity is reasonable. To the extent you're looking for non-kita there, I'd disagree. I thought your conspiracy was headed somewhere else when you first asked it. where was that? Towards marv being a sneaky snake, and a possible marv/foolishness team. I thought I was being asked cuz I've been making paranoid comments about marv, not in my capacity as a generic conspiracy theory aficionado.
Interesting. Talk to me about why a scum marv pushes Sand/Fool d1 over me when he could have orchestrated a me lynch. Obviously this assumes I'm town. Assume it for a moment.
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On January 29 2014 00:55 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 00:50 Promethelax wrote:On January 28 2014 08:10 Promethelax wrote:Filter page count Toad: 5 Fool: 5 Marv: 13 Austin: 9 Kita: 10 Me: 5 WoS: 14 Based on this I'd say at least one of Fool/Toad is scum. It is a rough measuring stick but since I have reason to town read the four players with double the post count of myself and the above players it isn't a bad reason to start there. I know that some scum make sure to have at least as many posts as the bottom tier townie and since there are three of us with 5 posts everyone can see that at least one townie has that post count. Since I have my own role pm I can eliminate me from the proceedings. This chart shall dictate the order I read filters in 1. Toad 2. Fool 3. Kita 4. + Show Spoiler [WoS] +Again by sheer dint of effort I find it very unlikely that WoS is scum. He said some things about VE which were so out of left field dumb (as scum) that he has to be town. + Show Spoiler +His comments that at most only one of them was scum are telling, when he, as scum, knows VE will flip town those bet hedging posts are awful. He wasn't sure enough of a town VE for him to be scum. He hedged his bets to save face, to be able to say "well, I had my doubts" if VE flipped. Not to gain towncred from his correct read In my head WoS is cleared. I may not bother to read his filter but instead interact with him I didn't say anything else on day two. His activity was enough reason not to lynch him that day. Okay. But in reading my filter to make a case on me/unmake a case on me, you should have noticed this series of posts. + Show Spoiler +On January 27 2014 07:25 austinmcc wrote:gg VE Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 11:58 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 26 2014 06:29 Toadesstern wrote:
hey VE, if you're still there, do what WoS asked you to do.
Start quoting what got you angry. I don't care what it is, start doing so. This and one of Toad's posts earlier struck me as buddying considering I was nigh unlynchable at that point, but I am going to leave that thought behind and move forward, because more than anything he was right. On January 26 2014 06:35 austinmcc wrote:Yes. On January 26 2014 05:39 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 26 2014 05:35 austinmcc wrote:
Mostly afk while cooking delicious foods. Still considering. I don't think I'm straying from VE and Foolishness today. Don't want to vote Toad right now, so if I strayed it would be possible WoS (weird townread on VE, some posts with a small quantity of meat (same applies to Foolishness), and he also +1ed Foolishness's "sandroba active now so he's probably townie" statement).
Kita is entirely off my radar in a bad way, I have not chatted with him today like I wanted to, and when I think of his filter this game, nothing particularly good or bad springs to mind. He's also still the probably candidate for a Foolishness partner, i THINK. Can you show me that? On January 23 2014 04:41 WaveofShadow wrote:
And for the record I probably am probably scummier on inactive Foolishness than inactive sandroba. Could be bias because I have precedent in PYP for sandroba in terms of an early game lurk then blasting onto the scene, but as was mentioend before (I forget by who atm?) sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around, whereas Foolishness basically hasn't talked to anyone, he just threw stuff and fucked off multiple times.
It's not about saying one scummier than other. It's about saying "like someone else said, sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around." I was the guy he was talking to. I got a couple posts from him, all of them not quite about what I was asking, and then he dipped. Not so much a +1 as I LOVE THIS, but a +1 like..."someone brought this up and it carries weight with my read." At this point, On January 26 2014 06:07 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 06:03 gonzaw wrote:
So Toad, you are happy with any of VE or Foo getting lynched today then?
I'd really like your thoughts on VE I haven't looked into VE yet and like I said, I want to see how he changes tomorrow. But VE makes sense given the situation we're in assuming my read on Foo is right. I'd much rather lynch Foo before lynching into VE because of nothing but "because he'd make sense together with Foo" if Foo hasn't even flipped yet... I haven't looked into VE yet is NOT AN OPTION/EXCUSE/WHATEVER. If you want VE alive tomorrow, you gotta do something about it. If you don't care, you're fine not to read him. But not looking into one of two main lynch candidates because you want to read his posts tomorrow is smelly. Why do you care if he changes tomorrow if you haven't looked into his D1/N1/D2? How are you going to know if ANYTHING changes? What sort of change are you looking for if you have no basis/read to work from? So austin, does that mean I am your primary target now that VE is gone? I'm honestly shocked at how you have me so high up on your scum list after our talk last night. On January 26 2014 06:51 austinmcc wrote:On January 26 2014 06:45 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, can someone tell me why Wave isn't town based on his activity so far?
Need I remind you he has the 2nd largest filter (after me)? And 10 pages of it happened this D2?
You guys think he can still be scum based on that?
Maybe he wants to prove a point as scum, that you should never surrender and keep going on? Or something?
Like I really want to know.
At the very least I want to know how he's a better lynch than Toad, or VE, etc
This goes...for everybody basically (Foo, Toad and austin) A lot of his filter is his GIANT posts. The size doesn't necessarily equate to content though. His giant giant posts are VE is town, Prome is scum. But his reasons for VE being town are kinda murky, and he spends boatloads and boatloads of time on all these little things that make Prome scum, despite Prome being pretty much off the table (it would seem for WoS as well? I have not seen him pushing Prome lately). So while there's a lot, a bunch of it is stuff that nobody really believes, and it picks up after we lynch a mafia. You can say he's responding to pressure by posting a bunch, either side can do that (I know not all mafia do, but I know I've gone post-crazy as mafia, and we don't have a good example of WoS's scumplay so it's unknown). Maybe it's knowing that town lynched mafia D1 and WoS/buddy need to kick things into gear and take control. Add in Hapa and others finding his D1 scummy. Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists. Also just minor nitpicky stuff. Putting some credence in the argument that sandroba was around and active. You're 100% right that the giant posts don't necessarily equate to good content. The point wasn't for them to necessarily be solid airtight cases, they were to showcase thought process. I would have hoped I've gotten that across by now but apparently not because there are still a LOT of doubters. As for Prome I mentioned I wanted Foolishness and Toad lynched before Prome so there was no point in pushing him the rest of the day as he wasn't getting lynched. It's in my filter somewhere. Does all of that stuff you've talked about really overshadow my effort and contributions for the past day enough to put me as the number 1 scum suspect going into day 3? There isn't a whole lot more I'm going to be able to do than what I've done already, so if no amount of effort is going to prove anything to you, then I would posit that you're not properly considering the most simple case scenario, which is that I am town, I am not concerned with what people read in my filter (hence the massive amount of posting) and I am putting forth the utmost effort to win this game. you are considering only the mafia options and what's unfortunate is you're not even the worst offender in that regard. 'Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists.' My D2 was DAMN good, and you know that. Leave the bias at the door and help me lynch scum. Don't believe you're my primary target. I think Foolishness's post on you is legit, but you don't jump that high. If your calling VE town was a bit stranger, or I didn't know you guys have played a bunch together, then you might get top billing. Effort = townie only goes so far with me. We don't have ANY comparison of recent scum play for you. I know that, personally, I can get REALLY active as scum. I know I'm not the only person EVER to do this. Especially when my team is in a terrible spot (last guy alive in PTP Demon's Run, late game in Chrono Trigger, etc.), a bunch of posting is easy because you post or you die. I think people are making too much of your activity, and should judge you on your actual contributions and not post count or post length, because they have pretty much no idea how you would normally play scum. I think you're ... going way too far with this. "Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists" is an ENTIRELY valid statement, it's true, and people shouldn't scumhunt day by day and forget anything old. I assume that you agree with this, yes?
Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 23:21 WaveofShadow wrote:
He said his weekend activity suffers; I don't have huge reason to question that since his activity in this game WAS better during the week.
Alright so if there was one (or for bonus derp points, two) scum on sandroba, which would be the most likely and why? marv gave his answer, which is good as far as answers-from-marv go, but at least for me personally, marv is a much better answer than I am to this question. He's more than happy to kill off scumbuddies when he thinks he needs to, a marv of EITHER alignment is not really expecting scum sandroba to be of much value to the scum team (and so scum marv would be OKAY with killing him off, cuz if Sandroba had an AFK N1/D2, he was very likely to be lynched D2). On January 27 2014 07:29 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2014 07:28 gonzaw wrote:
austin, you think WoS had no contributions on D2? I mean, I think when we all said "he put lots of effort" we meant "he put lots of meaningful effort". I think he had some good contributions. I think he has a lot of filler-y contributions. I think that everyone is happy to say "active/contribute-y" and nobody yet has really dug into what % of posts falls into which category. Heck, SOME of the posts swapping reads on WoS weren't "he had a lot of good contributions," but were instead specifically billed as "he's putting in too much effort to be mafia." On January 27 2014 07:44 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2014 07:42 marvellosity wrote:
austin, question for you: do you think Fool's certainty on Wave is warranted? No, I can't go that far. Especially with foolishness also being iffy on alignment at this point, but even if we knew he was town, I'd be less certain than Foolishness and unsure how foolishness can be so certain. I just have a love affair with the unpopular opinion, and so the one guy going "no, there are some legitimate reasons WoS could be/is scum" appeals to me, whereas, even if Gonzaw isn't, there HAVE been posts that purely equate WoS's filter length/effort with townieness. On January 27 2014 07:54 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2014 07:50 marvellosity wrote:On January 27 2014 07:44 austinmcc wrote:On January 27 2014 07:42 marvellosity wrote:
austin, question for you: do you think Fool's certainty on Wave is warranted? No, I can't go that far. Especially with foolishness also being iffy on alignment at this point, but even if we knew he was town, I'd be less certain than Foolishness and unsure how foolishness can be so certain. I just have a love affair with the unpopular opinion, and so the one guy going "no, there are some legitimate reasons WoS could be/is scum" appeals to me, whereas, even if Gonzaw isn't, there HAVE been posts that purely equate WoS's filter length/effort with townieness. it's a lazy way of saying something. gonzaw gave reasons well enough. You could say "he has a massive filter and that is townie purely for effort". Or you can extrapolate a little and say "he has a massive filter and on balance his posting within this have left me feeling pretty good" or "he has a massive filter and his posts feel townie and i can't see him pushing an agenda" Also in a vacuum, 95% of people who post that much in a phase/cycle are town. Now I pulled that figure right out my ass, but you get the idea. Oddly it's actually one of my weaknesses. rayn in ## was one of the few times i lynched a really active mafia, because in general i tend to find filter length a massive town indicator, and early in games I tend to go for quieter, lurkier scumplayers, and later in games i tend not to be alive. It's a lazy way of saying something, but given the choice of "effort = townieness" and "these contributory posts = townieness", the first is not just lazy but is ALSO the more likely thing to come from mafia that were happy with where WoS was going into N1/D2 and then unhappy when he started getting super post happy and reads started changing. I know either alignment can say it, it's shorthand. But if you want to hand-wave a scummy lean on WoS away, you can just say "MINNY POSTS GG TOWNWAVE," and when a couple people do that, maybe scum is in there.Besides, it's lazy of ME to just say "no, some people just said # of posts = townie" and not actually go find those posts. I don't have any non-lazy ground to stand on.
yes and? Would you argue that the player with the most posts in the game is the best lynch when compared to the guy who did some scummy shit d1 and followed it up by doing scummy shit d2? WoS/Ve were pretty interchangeable from d1 in my eyes but d2 WoS went balls to the wall efforting it up while VE went balls to the floor sad sacking around. So WoS became unlynchable that day. I do not in any way see your problem with him not being a lynch option that day.
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okay, shall we dance the hypothetical dance?
Two players Q and W have done essentially the same thing d1. They played in an objectivly scummy way and failed to vote for scum lynch while hard pushing a townie mislynch.
On d2 Q keeps playing sloppily, hardly posts and mostly gets mad when you try to talk to him. W posts a lot and seems to be trying to figure things out although he does have some posts which suggest that if Q is scum W is also scum.
Which player do you try to lynch Q or W?
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I afk'd for ~24 hours. Of course I need to prove myself townie. I'm not retarded, I know where I stand in the thread and I know that I was a lynch people liked a lot.
Do you have any opinions that are actually...you know, real? Or are you going to say that everyone can scum and you need to wait to see how things pan out.
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What does that mean about me and marv?
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What are marv and I trying to do together we are trying to change things up but, you say Fool is scum. How, then, can me/marv be trying to change things up since we cannot be scum together if fool is scum.
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On January 29 2014 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 02:06 Promethelax wrote:
What are marv and I trying to do together we are trying to change things up but, you say Fool is scum. How, then, can me/marv be trying to change things up since we cannot be scum together if fool is scum. change things up as in, you got in here and you're actively trying to do something about the situation of you guys looking worse right now...
Oh. My bad. That makes sense. I thought you didn't like that I was working to improve my image? Wasn't that a thing you just said four seconds ago?
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But by the time you had an issue with it I had already been doing things as well as having said I needed to do them. So why create an issue there where I had already done what it is you say I needed to do to make that good.
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no, it isn't understandable at all.
You brought it into the thread as an issue by the time you had caught up to the thread. You didn't say "if this had not been followed up on it would be an issue" you said "this is an issue" and three minutes later you dropped the issue and called me town and fool scum.
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marv: does this stuff from Toad make sense? Why is it so damn silly.
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Kita, talk to me about what Toad is saying right now.
He says that I look bad for something silly.
That fool looks good for his huge posts/reads on me/kita/toad
in conclusion Toad votes Fool
does this mean that Toad is scum or can Toad flip this flop so easily? If Toad can be town while saying these things are the things he is saying true? Should Fool be lynched over prome?If so why?
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On January 29 2014 02:49 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 02:46 marvellosity wrote:
This is going nowhere. Are you going to think about anything else austin, or is this somehow the be all and end all? Above post may answer some of that. I'm PROBABLY going to not think about anything else. Fully happy with toadread. Can peek more at WoS and kita, but if reads don't change on either of them, then I'm left with 3 people and one scenario (you/foolish) that looks unlikely, and prome being mafia in ALL SCENARIOS.
So why are you not pushing me as mafia and trying to get me lynched? You are niggling on one silly little thing that doesn't mean anything and not trying to cause my lynch when I am 100% confirmed mafia for you.
WTF
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Essentially yes. He seems more confidant about me being scum than he seems based on his case/vote. I don't see his work today being an attempt to discern my alignment, instead he called me scummy and voted my target who he said was also scummy but I had posted bad posts and Fool had posted good posts. I don't follow.
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On January 29 2014 02:57 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 02:56 marvellosity wrote:
In a not-very-game-related fashion, is anyone other than me suddenly really conscious of how they're writing Wave/WoS ever since Wave mentioned it? YES!
Me three
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Prome sounds right, prom sounds weird.
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We lynch austin tomorrow. This is not even a debate. He had a scummy switch to sand d1 he has played under the radar. He was the only vote not on foolishness d3. Austin's behaviour has been scummy the only reason he wasn't scum is that he and fool were not scum together.
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You remember that case I made that I said couldn't apply because no way were fool/Austin scum together? Yeah. Well Austin is still scum. Fool wasn't so my one objection is gone.
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I fully assume the lynch will be between me and someone else. Don't care. I'm town and if I pick a scum target to be up against I'm pretty sure I can get him lynched over me.
I assume I'll also be the mislynch target for 2v1 Lylo but I don't mind. I've been there before and none of you are stutters so I should be able to convince the other townie of the scum.
I know this is dumb but I'm feeling confidant of a town win still.
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EPT
