[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia - Page 5
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WaveofShadow
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:54 gonzaw wrote: kita is not untouchable You have my permission to touch kita all you want Yours is the only permission that matters. | ||
WaveofShadow
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On January 24 2014 06:56 gonzaw wrote: I also doubt you'll find VE town.. ....well...you did before (and it baffled me then).. ....ehmm..just read more carefully okay? See when you talk to me like that, how am I supposed to believe you truly want me lynched? <3 Again, there's things about VE's play earlier that REALLY led me to believe he was town. Of course I am going to re-read and consider, however. + Show Spoiler + One of these games I'm going to have to try and go with the opposite of what my reads and gut tell me---it's often in these cases where I firmly believe something that goes WAY against the grain of the rest of the entirety of town that I am wrong (see Vanesco in WC2 or Seuss in....## I think? Though those were 'noobie reads' and I often get burned on those specifically). I will read VERY carefully Gonzaw, this I promise you. | ||
WaveofShadow
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On January 24 2014 07:21 Toadesstern wrote: EBWOP I don't recall anything WoS said during that period, which isn't anything good that was supposed to be "the fact that nothing stood out is bad", not "there wasn't anything that wasn't good" Phoneposting just to say this is horseshit and pissed me off as I read it. You don't remember anything I said from around the lynch BECAUSe I WaSNT rTHERE for it | ||
WaveofShadow
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On January 24 2014 07:48 kitaman27 wrote: Not being present for the lynch isn't exactly a strong defense. I won't be apologetic absolut that, its not a defense. When I can be around ill be around simple as that. If toad is reading casting doubts on me and wanting to lynch me let it at least be for legitimate reasons | ||
WaveofShadow
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On January 24 2014 08:09 gonzaw wrote: ##Vote: VE I guess Wifom and unsubstanntiated for now but this may be why hapa instead of you (if VE is actually town) Its what I didn't post earlier with all caps. Sorry for more spoeculative shit I promise ill tone it down for wjhen I'm back Eta 4 hours | ||
WaveofShadow
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Two things I can say with the utmost confidence right now: 1) I am NOT getting lynched today. 2) I will be spending the rest of my evening posting reads and responses to whatever I feel is necessary, whether or not people are around right now to read them. If they go ignored then so be it. If there are people around right now, I'd love to talk with you, but just know it may be difficult for me to do two things at once. | ||
WaveofShadow
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On January 24 2014 12:48 gonzaw wrote: Oh....now you just make me want to test that! It would be a pleasure. To you I say, bring it! (But in all seriousness I say that in the sense that I will prove my innocence and you will not want to lynch me, rather than goading you into simply lynching me to prove me wrong. ) | ||
WaveofShadow
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Post 1 The above is so I can keep track of where I am, what I've put into each post, and possibly make it easier for other people to dig stuff up in what is sure to be a LONG series of posts I'm going to start with Prome and VE since I promised reads/dives of those two yesterday. VE: On January 21 2014 11:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Counterquestion Promethelax. Why VE and not WaveofShadow, who posted this at approximately the same time as the post in question. I'm starting from way back here. I know this one has been done to death but this was the stat of where my townread of VE came from. May have been an obvious point but both VE and I came up with this at the exact same time. I know I am town. Usually when you have two people of similar mindsets in a given scenario, coming up with things independently, it means they are of similar alignment. I know I am town, ergo, VE must be town. Moving on: On January 21 2014 11:22 VisceraEyes wrote: If we're talking meta, pressure won't mean anything to sandroba. He'll either play or he won't, and if he's town he'll probably find some scum. People like kita voting for him as a joke will probably not pressure him as much as you seem to think. Now this one is slightly more interesting. VE and I again both came up with this at the same time. One must ask oneself here, given that we know now the alignment of one sandroba, do you really think VE and I would both defend him at the exact same time with basically the exact same post? Originally this was simply another thing to add to my believe that VE was town (see thought process above this one), but now I believe this proves that VE and I cannot both be scum. (Never mind us both leaving votes on Foolishness and 'disappearing,' that would be ludicrous scum play). Once again though, thinking of this in context of a flipped sandroba, I agree this makes the both of us look bad---it is very easy as scum to toss this out as an innocent reason to remove suspicion from him early in the game, but I would look more closely at the formatting here. VE simply says that sandroba will not respond to pressure, whereas my post (that has been much maligned) On January 21 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote: As far as I can tell, he doesn't respond to pressure on himself this early so it wouldn't matter. I only offered that as an aside anyway, my main reason for not wanting to vote him is because I literally don't see one. Hapa, do you see yourself getting shot N1 in this game? actually talks about my own personal reasoning for not voting him---I am actually holding myself responsible here. IF VE is scum and my earlier inference was wrong, I think this post arguably implicates him more than myself. On January 22 2014 01:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Regarding Wave, I mostly have a townread on Wave, but am biased because I'm super town to him. It's a failing. This post belies a towny mindset. Nothing much more to say about this one---I believe a post like this probably isn't easy to fake as scum. It's a known fallacy to gutread someone who thinks you're town as town, an obviously doesn't always apply given the people in this game life Foolishness who were suspect for throwing out random-ass townreads, but as scum it's certainly easier to throw out those townreads without coming up with a specific reason such as this. It's all in the mentality. For most of the rest of D1 aside from the time around the lynch, VE didn't do a great deal. I could point out some more posts that make me think he could be town but they'd be weak proofs to add to the above. I do want to point this out: On January 22 2014 10:03 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not trolling - that was a genuine thought I just had. Town gonzaw is well familiar with my play, and I honestly can't remember a game he was scum in. But in the games I've played with him before he's been able to correctly deduce my alignment (generally town, but he's caught me as scum AND SK before) pretty much every time that I recall. So this game is an anomaly because he's NOT correct about my alignment this game. You think maybe you can stop being hyper critical of like everything I do please? <3 The beginning of some conspiracy theory business, a type of post he continues with into N1 upon his return. People are overly critical of conspiracy theory-posting and I can understand the basic reasons why (cluttering up the thread, conjecture, etc) but others have mentioned that they offer a unique thought process and bring information and ideas to the thread that may not come up otherwise. This may help to jog an idea from another townie, or they could even possibly be right every once in a while. I don't believe conspiracy theory-ing is inherently scummy, and I personally do it all of the time or the above reasons (and also because I generally tend to toss into the thread whatever comes into my head). There is a scum reason for VE to toss random conspiracy-ish suspicion on gonzaw, obviously, but I believe as scum he would be aware it looks like shit. As town he's not worried about how bad he looks, he just wants to get possible ideas and info out there. Here he also begins to complain about gonzaw's beginnings of what for most of the day and night has been a vicelike grip on VE, which came to a head when VE ragequit the thread earlier. I'll come back to that. | ||
WaveofShadow
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Post 2 On January 23 2014 02:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I could MAYBE vote for HolyFlare. I'm teetering on the cusp of voting for Foolishness. This is VE's return nearing the end of D1. Where in all that is holy did this even come from? He started to suspect Foolishness a little bit but Holyflare? And what happened to Prome? On January 23 2014 02:51 marvellosity wrote: I'd very much like to hear from VE as well re: Prome Seems kita and marv noticed too, and they get a couple townie pts imo. On January 23 2014 02:57 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't know man, the catchup posts seemed disingenuous, but I'm afraid I'm biased. Based on the posts I'm more willing to admit that I could be wrong about Prome, and yes the alternatives are looking better. The thing about Prome is that there's no POP to his posts - when he's town, when he thinks he's found something suspicious something clicks and his confidence shoots up and you can see it in his posts. I didn't get that feeling when he was posting about you. But again, I'm not sure how much of it is my own bias speaking. Foolishness/Sandroba/HolyFlare are three targets who are, in my opinion, well equipped to prove their worth D1 if they're town. That none of them has been able to do this is troubling to me. Here some ideas of his have begun to resurface and I remember agreeing with this post, but in context it seems really weird and out of place. I think the absolute worst thing VE has got going for him in his filter is his 'round-the-lynch' shenangians, Vote-swapping all over the place with zero justification. In my opinion however, that is the ONLY scummy thing he has going for him at this point in his filter. It's not small, but it is enough to ignore everything I've posted about thus far? Marv may have had the right of it here...the fact that VE didn't in fact care at all about the lynch. This could mean it was because he is scum and didn't care, town and didn't care, and/or was simply too engrossed in his other business or the other game. I'm not sure how alignment indicative it is for VE, but I think it makes marv look even better as an aside. The beginning of VE's depressed/martyring stage. On January 23 2014 09:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Whatever just lynch me next, I'll help you guys decide who to lynch after me. On January 23 2014 09:18 VisceraEyes wrote: Whichever one looks the worse of Prom/Foolish is where I'm at now, I'm going to reread the thread when I wake up tomorrow. I think this is where I was at here as well, but I digress. It was mentioned that a scummer who just had a buddy get lynched is going to show up angry and depressed in thread; this was even a point brought up against me when I raged at the end of D1 in the aborted LXIV. I find this to be ludicrous. If a scummer is being browbeaten by people like gonzaw and Prome into submission before the second day even begins, why bother to respond at all? Why bring a negative attitude into the thread where people are likely to pick up on it and say the things they have? This may be WIFOM, but way more often than not, I find emotion such as this is not faked, and does not come from a fake place either. I've seen it come from scum (DrH in Bluelightz) and I've seen it come from town (way too fucking many to name). At the very least I can say that VE is pissed off here because he is telling the truth. It does not 100% mean he is town telling the truth, but I personally believe it to be so. The idea that VE may be well aware of his meta and is faking the rage is certainly prevalent but it certainly doesn't appear to be fooling anyone (aside from me) if he is scum so why bother? DOES VE ragequit as scum? His discussion with Prome at the end is one thing that really doesn't make him look good since Prome was actively REALLY trying to engage him and get something good out of him and he quit on it, whatever his reasons may have been. Ultimately when gonzaw said it was VE's 'trial by fire' he has the right of it---his actions and behaviours don't always quite line up but if he doesn't show up to steer us in the right direction (one way or another) he is going to be lynched today. I for one would be very glad to talk with him to figure him out and prove things to the thread once and for all. The only way I will be voting VE today is if he gives up entirely; until then I consider him town. VE doesn't always do things well, and doesn't always do things right; Prome mentioned that he's 'not bad:' On January 24 2014 05:59 Promethelax wrote: I just don't see it. This is so not the reasonable conclusion to come to from this day one. I can't balance out VE being not dumb and ve believing this. I get that you'd consider it because paranoia happens to all of us and I've considered a lot of weird stuff this game, I just don't that this theory is the one you think is most likely and most worth pushing. You've been convinced since early day one that I am scum and haven't updated that read at all through the game, it isn't evolving instead you are working a crazy conspiracy theory to make sense of me still being scum after essentially being the hammer on a scum lynch, So VE why is this the most likely situation for you? Why am I more scum than fool? Why was Kita mentioned but dropped? but I believe that it is entirely possible for a town VE to play this way. | ||
WaveofShadow
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Stop calling 'fluffy' shit mafia-indicative. It's null. Everybody posts 'fluff.' Some people more than others. Some people don't even really realize when they're posting 'fluff.' I think one of the only times I can think of where mafia actively tried to post fluff to shit up a thread was BH as Wade Fell in The Game. Otherwise mafia have plenty of other ways to ruin a thread, and that's by injecting false reads, misleading the thread and looking good themselves. Why would anyone actively post arbitrary bullshit if they're constantly going to be called out for it? Two reasons: 1) They don't believe it's bullshit. You know, 'cause the idea of what's bullshit and what isn't is PURELY SUBJECTIVE. 2) It's fucking IMPOSSIBLE to keep every post full of perfect content that will please everybody. In this game and in a lot of others, people are always getting called out for posting things that other people don't find important or up to their standards. Sometimes people actually do post nonsense but it ends up being for no other reason than they feel like it. It may shit up the thread a little bit but that alone is not enough to derail a lynch or mislead a town. No, shitting up a thread is things like long-drawn out arguments, attempting to actively steer discussion off-course, things like that. Things that are often accomplished by non-fluff-type posting. Sometimes I post fluff. Sometimes austin posts fluff. Sometimes kita posts fluff. Sometimes VE posts fluff. SOme people post higher frequencies of it than others, depending on game timing and circumstances. For the people who don't (or believe they don't), I guess you're all just better people than me. /rage /fluffpost | ||
WaveofShadow
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Post 3 (Oh I can;'t edit but I wanted to mention in there something about the act of martyring itself---an extremely townie trait considering recent trends.) Moving on to Prome: On January 21 2014 11:41 Promethelax wrote: I have but you guys had to go and produce actual content while I was bitching about having no content. Stellar start to the game, eh? In all honesty everyone is suspicious given how little content came about in the time when I couldn't post (couldn't = had to eat sushi with the girlfriend) the fact that the vettiest vets in vetland couldn't figure out how to start a game of mafia gives me the willys. Again, the sort of stuff that's been rehashed over and over but I bring up some of it anyway. VE originally suspected Prome because of his townread of me and not of him---difference between VE and I was that I believed that kind of thing possible whereas VE did not. VE also (correctly in my opinion) brings up the example of mafia Prome in LX with his 'conversation starter' business (which VE didn't even attempt to debunk). Maybe it's not the fact that Prome is putting in effort to create a conversation starter here, but why does he feel the need to brag about it, and shit on the rest of town in the process? 'LOOK AT HOW TOWN I AM, STARTING STUFF WHERE THE REST OF THE VETS COULDN'T!' Unnecessary. The talk about policy early on I originally had issues with but ultimately I let it go as it doesn't appear to be particularly alignment indicative. Before disappearing for a day, he calls kita scummy and says he doesn't like Foolishness for obvious reasons. Prome then returns triumphantly, defends himself from VE and votes kita. I then join him (which was called a sheep vote by someone + Show Spoiler + who shall remain nameless right now but oh boy am I gonna get to him VE seemed to think these reads were forced but I didn't then nor do I now think so. He came back, provided reads as he was catching up, and I found them useful. On January 23 2014 00:20 Promethelax wrote: 20-22 Bro bro, bro. BRO! WoS asked Hapa a question in a 'tone' that seemed curious to me. Which didn't do. That made VE more worth pressuring than Wave. It isn't a big point. It doesn't say a lot but I happen to believe that the question WoS posed Hapa is more likely to come from a town WoS than a scum one. So I went after VE. Along with that attacking VE was more likely to generate content in the thread which was my real goal since WoS is more likely to have a reasonable conversation with me while VE is more likely to do silly things and go crazy. Crazy VE says crazy things. Those things can cause thread interaction to happen which is good. Two reasons to accuse VE over WoS 1. VE seemed slightly more suspicious because WoS said one thing I liked while VE said 0 things I liked. and 2. VE is more likely to respond with OMGUSes and strange ideas which would, I hoped, jumpstart the thread. because I was pressuring VE who felt wrong and not WoS who did not feel wrong. I really don't understand what it is that I need to explain more. WoS had the same thoughts as VE but had a thing that made me think he was WoS there was nothing to suggest that it was VE and not VE so I pressured VE and not WoS. /logic okay, I'm done responding to this point because I think I've explained it enough for you to get. If you have another reason to accuse me I'm happy to hear it but this one is played out either you buy my explanation or you don't. I can't explain it more because I've done it two or three ways already and, well, that is all I've got. If you don't believe me lynch me and if you do believe me stop trying to lynch me over this. Find something else worth lynching me for or don't. I was writing up a thing but I'ma just +1 this post instead. Right now, no order within the lists: Hapa Marv WoS Gonzaw VE Sandroba Austin Kita Holy Fool Looking at the reads section of this post, I'm kinda wondering now what has made Prome completely drop his townread of me and reverse it. All I found upon looking was this: On January 23 2014 14:47 Promethelax wrote: But he is thinking like town. Lynch VE I think. No interest in lunch. Also: maybe WoS? He thinks I could be s um with what in my mind was hammer vote. I think you'll agree that me+fool =/= scum pair so if I was scum I could have left my vote on fool and lynchedvhim overs and. So because I refuse to immediately consider a bunch of people (who frankly don't deserve it) confirmed town I'm instantly scum? Odd. He doesn't even bring up my posting re: sandroba which I would argue is more incriminating. He focuses mostly on VE for the rest of his filter but I'm pretty shocked that #2 on his scumlist gets no consideration whatsoever. Anyway backing up: On January 23 2014 07:22 Promethelax wrote: I keep wanting to think you are town but you come up with bullshit like this that isn't even remotely true. I cannot believe that town foolishness actually believes these things as they are not remotely true. ##unvote ##vote: foolishness I simply cannot connect the idea of foolishness being a good town player and him being town while saying things so blatantly false about so many players in this game. This sounds familiar. That's right, it's the exact same rationale he uses against VE later on in the day! Now while this doesn't indicate scum, I'm not sure of the viability of applying the same heuristic to multiple people like this---essentially every time somebody doesn't perform to your liking, you try to call them scum? I maybe should give it a little more credence because this heuristic is entirely meta-based and I know Prome is good at meta, but where is the proof? For us laypeople, how do I know that Foolishness is better than this? This kind of thing falls into 'stuff that doesn't pop out' territory. I can throw this back at him; I've seen Prome play, and I know he is capable of blasting people away with insane cases. He hasn't done it this game. Scum? (See how easy that was?) On January 23 2014 07:35 Promethelax wrote: It's because I'm kinda confused. It is what sand is pulling out in my filter. In pyp I had to do something to move town in the right direction (and had 140 pages of thread to work with) and things popped out to me. I had sheep to lead and scum to find. Here no one has made me really hard for their lynch. Although sand bringing in meta from my strongest ever town game is a little funny, I wish I was that good all the time. Here he is 100% right and honestly this would probably be one of the main reasons I would have found Sandroba scummy at the time: that case he made was terrible. Would a scum Prome be the one to drop the perceived final vote hammer at lynch time, but also be the one that began to set that lynch in motion? Kinda stretching it. Hmm. Actually... On January 23 2014 07:26 austinmcc wrote: His filters are markedly different from the two games, yes. But that's just a single game and he replaced into PYP LOL but didn't here. I feel the exact same way about the difference, but I discount that as solid evidence more than you seem to. You basically just chopped out a single thing that Prome has done this game, pasted it next to a thing from one past game, went NINETY FIVE PERCENT SCUM. All while, at least to me, you two are the leading candidates for lynch. Talking about someone else who might be scum, or talking about why Prome is scum beyond his kita vote + comparison to a game he replaced into, might go a ways towards making people more convinced on Prome or less convinced on you. Austin brings it up. Wayy fewer townpoints for Prome, sorry dood. | ||
WaveofShadow
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On January 24 2014 14:25 austinmcc wrote: WoS, if you're still up, can I ask you to undertake a funky made-up task for me? Pretty please? If your answer is yes and you're up and active, when you finish going through whatever you want to go through, I'd like for you to play along with this scenario. I am a cop. I have a red check on gonzaw. I tell you this. You smack your head and go, "Aha! It all makes sense now. I should have known Gonzaw was mafia, because __________." If you so choose, you can keep going and add, "Also, now that I know the mafia team was sandroba/gonzaw/?, the third member is almost certainly _______." EVERYONE ELSE I'M NOT A COP. I DON'T HAVE A RED CHECK. Just curious. If it were to turn out that Gonzaw is mafia, when you look at his filter, what would give you that, "man, I should have seen this thing because it points towards mafia Gonzaw" feeling? You know how I feel about your funky made-up-tasks, but at least this one doesn't involve you being a female hot-dog vendor and actually appears to be relevant to the game somehow, so let me finish Prome then I'll do it. | ||
WaveofShadow
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On January 24 2014 14:25 austinmcc wrote: WoS, if you're still up, can I ask you to undertake a funky made-up task for me? Pretty please? If your answer is yes and you're up and active, when you finish going through whatever you want to go through, I'd like for you to play along with this scenario. I am a cop. I have a red check on gonzaw. I tell you this. You smack your head and go, "Aha! It all makes sense now. I should have known Gonzaw was mafia, because __________." If you so choose, you can keep going and add, "Also, now that I know the mafia team was sandroba/gonzaw/?, the third member is almost certainly _______." EVERYONE ELSE I'M NOT A COP. I DON'T HAVE A RED CHECK. Just curious. If it were to turn out that Gonzaw is mafia, when you look at his filter, what would give you that, "man, I should have seen this thing because it points towards mafia Gonzaw" feeling? Actually let me give a preliminary answer to that right now: I would say Gonzaw got framed. There is no way in hell I can believe that the way he has been playing currently points to a scum gonzaw---that's one conspiracy-theory-rabbit-hole I just won't fit my fat ass into. I'll read his filter *shudder* once I finish what I'm doing just to be absolutely certain but I don't see my answer changing. | ||
WaveofShadow
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Post 4 I do so love talking to myself. This will be the last one until tomorrow--- I'm exhausted and I think I will have given people enough to consider/talk about in the few hours I am not here without flooding the thread TOO much. On January 23 2014 08:06 Promethelax wrote: Yes you see I had a policy I was hoping not to enact because we are all better than this. You see? But we had to lurker lynch, it ended up being right but I'm pissed at sandroba about it. I wanted a high quality game with crazy good scum and town play. Scum (or anyone else) getting lurker lynched d1 is disappointing to me. So, on one hand Prome DOES kinda look bad for this, but it's such a minor point that, even were he contradictory wouldn't be something to nail him to the wall for. Foolishness goes for it anyway...it's little things like this that may have me looking at Foolishness as my D2 lynch, but I'll get to that eventually. On January 23 2014 14:51 Promethelax wrote: Fuck. English hard. VE isn't interested in the lynch, let it go with even votes, just doesn't seem right. Which is why he might be scum. WoS keeps pressuring me after a lynch that should look really good for me. He isn't terrible (though he isn't top rung in this game in particular) and so he should know that hammer voting scum d1 usually indicates town. And yeah, I didn't actually cast the deciding vote but I thought I did. Already brought it up but yeah, it's this again. "So and so isn't bad but look at what they do here, must be scum!" Here's Prome's reason to apparently drop me to #2 lynch and once again, the SAME REASON AS ALL OF HIS OTHER SCUMSPECTS. Now we have an issue on our hands. On January 23 2014 15:22 Promethelax wrote: To the bolder: hohoho. Scum calling out their own tactics. Sand defends fool, Kita. Attacks prom, gonzaw Buddies WoS Between me/fool I'm trying to think of who I'd see as an easier target from a scum perspective if both were town. I think I'm harder to lynch thn fool since I have more thread or essence and a better excuse to be bad while fool has poor thread presence and less excuse to be bad. Thing is I'm pretty sure sand is one of those player who has a vet hard on and would know fool way better. Than he knows me (though in three games with him I've voted him d1 twice when he was scum and bossed the fuck out of pyp once). Still think he'd respect fool more than me so I'm not sure his choice to attack me over fool is deeply enlightening. You know, the bolded is the same thing I've been considering with me/VE. But I find issue here with the fact that he thinks that scum sandroba actually would think to take on one of town Foolishness/Prome and push them all the way to a lynch. I believe this was just a bandaid post by sandroba trying to get SOMETHING out there before the end of the day but it's what did him in precisely because it was it so weak/forced/bad. He comes to a similar conclusion as I come to in the end (the post is useless to try and gain info from) but I don't see the fact that sandroba chose to 'attack' him with such a shoddy case as proof of Prome's towniness. Prome's long case on VE (not gonna copy it here) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=51#1002 Some of it is fairly decent---he;s right in that VE around the lynch looked crappy and he didn't do a whole lot in the day, but then he is MASSIVLEY hypocritical with the stuff that compares the two of us: Prome: Again people have already commented on VE's early defense of Sandroba but it is worth bringing up again now that Sand has flipped. This preemptive defense of Sand's play seems a little too aware; while Sand could do this as both alignments if I were scum with him this game I'd be worried that he would play his usual shitty scum meta (as he ended up doing) and would be hyper aware of people talking about it. Bringing up the defense of Sandroba to call VE scum but not me. I stated earlier how this can actually be reconciled (in my VE post) yet Prome doesn't bring me up AT ALL. AND STILL THINKS IM SCUM. Prome: So this post happened. VE thinks I am biased and that makes me more likely to be scum. And yet, for no reason, I am town to him. Hapa said he thought this was indicative of a townie who was bothered at being accused for something that didn't make him scum but I see it as just as likely to come from a scum mad at a townie calling him scum for a reason that he feels could be equally applied to a town player. The above having been stated I don't think WoS and VE can be scum together because if I was right to call VE scum for something that WoS did too and both were scum it would be a valid read on both of them. If VE flips scum I'd say WoS is not scum. So while I agree with the conclusion again, the way he got about getting there is so massively wrong I don't even know what to say. There are MULTIPLE things that both VE and I do throughout this game that can be compared, yet Prome doesn't even bother talking about them, he simply cherry-picks what he wants to refer to here and just lazily makes reference to me, setting himself up for what could be a double mislynch if VE flips town. Like...maybe he can come back and explain this himself because I actually don't understand the ligic behind point he is trying to make here AT ALL. At this point despite some decent parts of his cases, this VE case is not the polished triumphant hammer I would expect from Prome (at risk of sounding hypocritical, this is NOT a sticking point for me---I am generally not great at meta). It reeks of an easy case on an easy target which IS scummy. On January 24 2014 06:06 Promethelax wrote: Kita: do scum slips exist? You know who else nitpicks at obviously stupid things? Foolishness. Then comes the prodding of VE, and while I like the attempts to engage him (in that I don't think he expected VE to rage out necessarily) I don't think is necessarily indicative because even as scum it's very easy to pursue the attack on a downtrodden townie---the worst case scenario for scum there is he may find some of his points weakened, the best case is probably what VE did to himself. Conclusion: Prome is scummy. There are things that I liked about his filter: the engaging of the thread, the stream-of consciousness catch-up, but overall there are way too many glaring inconsistencies, and faulty periods of play that can't be explained away simply. I've already explained why in my opinion Prome does not deserve a free pass based on his position in the sandroba lynch. Eventually to come: proper defenses to stuff like Foolishness/Toad. More filter diving (Foolishness/Toad/marv warrant a look in that order) Anything else that may be necessary. | ||
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On January 24 2014 22:12 gonzaw wrote: @Steve WoSniak: Ehmm. Seems you are trying way too hard to justify some of VE's behaviour....when it's basically injustifiable, you just say "it makes him scum" or "I'll ignore it". Actually, yeah, it is. Way more important than "Does VE ragequit as scum?" speculation and "Scum VE wouldn't post shit on gonzaw with shitty reasons because he'd know it'd look bad therefore VE is town" I also wouldn't really talk too much about that "if sandro is scum he'll do good later" stuff you both posted. Yes, if both of you are scum it's weird......but like really it seems to just have no importance at all when looking at the big picture or at stuff that matters (like....the lynch and shit) It's obvious I tried to save my scumbuddy Foo by trying to get him lynched, then get my actual sandro buddy lynched, to make me and Foo look good so then I can fake having a change of heart on him and ride that town cred to victory Of course. Then you and I have vastly differing opinions of what is important and what isn't. We should only be focusing on what happened around the lynch and ignoring everything else? Kinda strange because aren't you waffling on which of 'the five (now four)' are immune or not? (Personally I am of the belief it's only you and probably austin based simply on voting). I could also swear there was talk about how voting analysis shouldn't be the only thing we consider for the lynching today...? I'm not going to dump everything else from a filter (mine, Prome's VE's) just because of what happened in a one hour span of time. Now that I'm up, I think it may be time to move onto defenses and Foolishness, unless anyone else has anything to talk about with me/add. | ||
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On January 24 2014 22:29 marvellosity wrote: Some of this Wave stuff is so bad. Parsing it now. Yeah, expecting this. Not really caring, nor am I going to stop so do as you will. | ||
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On January 24 2014 22:34 gonzaw wrote: So you don't think VE randomly voting Holy for no reason, then randomly voting Foo for even less reasons, then not giving a shit and parking his vote on him, is important? You really think stuff like him shitting on me "coming from town VE who wants to put info out there!" is more important than that? If VE comes here and says "I'm scum we are conceding bye", are you just going to say "Oh, good ol' town VE shenannigans! Ta-ta!" or something? As much as I appreciate your snide attitude, yes of course its important. There are, however behavioral matters that can also be taken into consideration that YOU are ignoring. We are looking at this differently. | ||
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
(Also important to consider, though it's up to you whether you want to or not, but by defending VE and doing what I am doing, not only am I drawing all attention to myself, but I am also attempting to eliminate one everyone's strongest scumreads from the list, forcing everyone to move down the list----to me.) | ||
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Marv I went through filters and I went through what I found to be important one way or another in isolation from voting analysis because it's been done to death, both by me and everyone else in here. No one has been able to draw effective conclusions one way or the other---some people still suspect austin for example, while I don't. | ||
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