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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Wait, how is it bullying someone into looking elsewhere when it's the truth?
That's like saying someone who says, "there's no way the government would plan the attack on 9/11", is bullying you into becoming a slave to society.
But also, your analysis fails to comment upon the numerous vote information I brought to the thread during the night (all made before your post keep in mind), the clear evidence that Promethelax is town, the mindset the mafia had during day 1 and the first lynch, and an outline of a plan for the town to win the game based on the lynch, votes and interactions.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Also, the meat of your argument seems to be that I lack a 10 page essay on why someone is mafia. I'll tell you right now that you certainly aren't getting one about any player in the game the next few days, and probably not for the entire game. I don't have the time in my life to do such a thing so I can only give you what I got with the time that I have to play this game.
You can take that for what you will, but if you are honestly convinced that I am mafia based on that fact while ignoring the boatload of evidence that I have brought forth and while ignoring that shadier suspects in this game then you are not going to win this game and you will never find mafia.
I'm out for the night because if I see anymore of this I'm just going to be calling people retarded, and that's not what this thread needs. I've laid out the information, I suggest you reread my posts instead of just cherry picking what is or isn't there. It's clear what happened day 1 and what the mafia were doing, and it's immediately clear who should be pressured and lynched today.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 05:22 gonzaw wrote:
Foolishness, are you around?
Depends on what you mean by around.
If your vote is on WoS I will 100% respond to any questions you ask. If your vote is on VE I'll probably respond as long as it's a good question. If your vote is on me then I probably won't care as I need to figure out whether it's mafia pushing on me or just paranoid townies so you guys have sufficient information for the next few days.
What's up?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
And in case it isn't clear I still maintain that WoS is a better lynch than VE. VE I can see as being town, WoS not so much.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 06:38 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 06:35 Foolishness wrote:
And in case it isn't clear I still maintain that WoS is a better lynch than VE. VE I can see as being town, WoS not so much. You better come up with a 10 page essay about this if you want to convince me you really believe this.
Because VE actually seems like he's trying to figure things out and is listening to arguments brought forth. WoS seems very headset on lynching a few people (he's pushing what could be a mafia agenda) and seems to be ignoring critical information brought forth about the lynch yesterday.
But I could very well be wrong on both accounts.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 06:45 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, can someone tell me why Wave isn't town based on his activity so far?
Need I remind you he has the 2nd largest filter (after me)? And 10 pages of it happened this D2?
You guys think he can still be scum based on that?
Maybe he wants to prove a point as scum, that you should never surrender and keep going on? Or something?
Like I really want to know.
At the very least I want to know how he's a better lynch than Toad, or VE, etc
This goes...for everybody basically (Foo, Toad and austin)
To be honest there's 12 pages or so I haven't read yet. Was making myself known in case someone had important things to ask me before they lynch.
Quality over quantity?
I mean I stated this before and that I'm happy with either lynch. When I say that I think WoS is better lynch it's a difference between "95% would lynch WoS, 90% would lynch VE".
I just have a feeling that VE has a chance to flip town, call it a gut read or instinct or what have you. There's not a huge basis for it, just a feeling. Even after reading his filter again I'm struggling to explain why.
Remember the four people I said that if we lynch the town wins? Yeah he's on it so no problems if he gets lynched.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 06:51 gonzaw wrote:
"VE actually seems like he's trying to figure things out and is listening to arguments brought forth" ....
Wha...
How is VE wanting to lynch ANYBODY other than him (from the "unconfirmed"), not really caring (and explicitely stating so), being "trying to figure things out"?
"WoS seems very headset on lynching a few people (he's pushing what could be a mafia agenda) and seems to be ignoring critical information brought forth about the lynch yesterday." ...
WoS "seems to be ignoring critical information brought forth about the lynch yesterday", "he's pushing what could be a mafia agenda"....wtf?
Is he just ignoring everything WoS is doing this D2? Like being active as fuck, pressuring everybody, trying to figure things out (hey! Isn't that what VE was doing?), etc.
Is this guy serious?
/ignore
Still 11 pages behind kitaman
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 06:56 gonzaw wrote:
Then don't post stuff like that if you still haven't read the thread...
...still, it doesn't really make sense.
But whatever
What doesn't make sense?
I told you I will respond to questions. You just saying I don't make sense is not productive, not contributing information, not generating information, and not helping the town. Instead it is distracting the town, and pissing people off.
I will be here for the next hour, if you want stuff from me, don't be sarcastic and don't be egotistical.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
This post is me talking as co-runner of the TL mafia forum, and should not be taken seriously regards to what is happening in this game.
Don't bring Shadows into the argument or the fact that this is a coaching game when you are talking to someone. This is a game being played primarily for educational purposes so that everyone (including us playing right now) can learn something and get better. Posts like these:
On January 26 2014 04:20 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 04:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
If you want. Am I going to take it the wrong way? Be prepared for me to take it the wrong way. I don't actually want you to post anything, but wtf does your shadow QT look like if you're going to be apathetic already on D2? You're not just town or scum, you're town or scum and sharing your thoughts on the game with someone this game. I think that makes it markedly different than any normal game you could ragequit or be apathetic in. You're not coaching, but you're...at least opening up your thoughts to someone. But you're content to just...give up?
are not and will not be tolerated (and this isn't the only post I've seen so far).
This kind of attitude will not be tolerated from anyone, and you should be ashamed of yourself for bringing up these kind of arguments. We all respect each other here, and any sort of disrespect not only makes you look bad but also sets a bad precedence for the future.
We all love each other, so be loving when talking to someone else <3
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 07:04 gonzaw wrote:Okay. Can you give reasoning and proof behind these two statements? Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 06:42 Foolishness wrote:
VE actually seems like he's trying to figure things out and is listening to arguments brought forth. Show nested quote +WoS seems very headset on lynching a few people (he's pushing what could be a mafia agenda) and seems to be ignoring critical information brought forth about the lynch yesterday.
1)
2) I'm referring to his posts where he calls VE town (at least I think he calls him town cause I was never actually quite sure) and Promethelax mafia. Here is the post (he made about 5 at the time, I'm referring to all of them).
Now keep in mind I'm still reading the thread so his opinions might have changed since then. But at the point there was good evidence to show VE is mafia (for example, lack of aggressive day 1 posting, not pushing a case, being strangely absent at the lynch time, and perhaps an unwarranted vote on me). Furthermore I made posts showing that people on the sandroba vote are very likely town, and everyone else should be under scrutiny.
However WoS seemed to ignore this information I brought forth and his thinking is going in the opposite direction. I still haven't seen a reason why my post that proves Promethelax is town here has faulty logic. People, such as kitaman, seem to quote this post and say "why is Foolishness spending so much time proving that Promethelax is town instead of defending himself or doing a 10-page analysis?" That is because by confirming him as town I now have a better idea of who is mafia. Furthermore that argument is a Jub-Jub argument (you should all know what this means).
Why was WoS so intent on saying Promethelax is town, especially after saying he was okay with him on day 1? This isn't the only post he made where he said that Promethelax is okay. Sure we all change our reads over the course of the game, but the progression of his change doesn't make sense. He thinks the case on Promethelax is bad on day 1 and votes me instead. There isn't anything wrong with that fact. However after sandroba gets lynch Promethelax looks really town (put simple, why would sandroba vote on Promethelax when the vote count for him and myself was tied?) Also I think Promethelax's night 1 posts had a town mindset (for instance this post here shows a town mindset of analyzing the votes after a lynch).
No, WoS turn around on Promethelax is not congruent with a town mindset, and this is what I meant by he's ignoring key information about the lynch. That is a mafia agenda to push, he doesn't want to bring light to the things the day 1 votes say (such as the 5 people voting for sandroba should be confirmed town).
On January 26 2014 07:10 Toadesstern wrote:
I've voted WoS earlier on and should be on that list canceled out if that matters
Foolish, how about you explain how WoS + me being mafia makes any sense whatsoever when you've been saying that it's probably VE+WoS all the time
Yes so as you've heard me say I think the town wins if the following four players die: VE, WoS, Kitaman, Toad (if you want to be really technical you can add me to that list but the day 1 events should show that's not likely. If you don't know what I'm referring to let me know and I'll explain some of my previous posts again).
In terms of actual connections between I haven't done a thorough analysis to say "these two players could be a likely pair". One thing I did take notice of was that in day 1 Kitaman was pushing hard for sandroba (and voted for sandroba twice during the day). I think this says something because why would Kitaman be drawing so much attention to his obviously semi-inactive mafia teammate (especially on day 1, and especially on a player who is known for being inactive as mafia)? Because of this I don't find Kitaman likely to be mafia with sandroba.
For the remaining three players I could potentially see any of them being together at this point. I haven't read Toad's filter closely, and everytime I read HolyFlare's I go back and forth on whether I think he's mafia or town. At the moment I think Toad is least likely mafia out of the three. I still think it could make sense for you (Toad) to be with either VE or WoS or sandroba but I don't have anything hard to give you in regards to that.
Yeah sorry didn't answer question 1 yet, wanted to get this out there before it's too late. Remind me later I will give you what I was thinking.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Let me clarify again that I am perfectly happy with VE getting lynched. I just have a strong read on WoS and VE's frustration makes sense as a town frame of mind.
When you say things like, "VE didn't push a lynch day 1, he wasn't accomplishing anything with his posts, he has since been not contributing" I have nothing to say except, "yep, I agree". I am not deflecting off his lynch, I just think WoS is slightly better and will tell us more. If you guys are convinced that VE needs to die now and that WoS is town I will gladly ablige; I've even admitted I could be wrong on both accounts.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 07:44 gonzaw wrote:
Up to what page are you reading right now Foo?
Like 85, but I'm f5'ing and responding back, so it's slow and I'm mostly skimming.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 07:46 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:40 Foolishness wrote:
[... snipped out for thread's sake...] only talking about the part that answered me. Than what about this: Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 10:15 Foolishness wrote:On January 25 2014 10:09 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 25 2014 10:06 Foolishness wrote:On January 25 2014 09:57 WaveofShadow wrote:I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1. I see absolutely zero reason why this section of your post is relevant, and I've said it multiple times before. I don't ever see mafia members actively trying to push lynches off their scumbuddies. However if you actually do think this way, maybe it explains why you as scum were trying to save sandroba? As I said above, if you and kitaman want to run down the conspiracy theory hole even after there's a boatload of evidence proving my innocence and very little evidence proving yours (and VE's, and Toad's, and Kitaman's) then that's cool when you lose the game for the town. I win games. Silly question then in regards to your last post: Which two of the four of us are scum? And 'it doesn't matter' doesn't cut it because there is no way in hell the rest of the players in this game will simply follow your instructions and lynch those 4 without considering all options. That's not a silly question. I believe it is you [note: you=WoS] and Toad. Though I go back and forth on whether it's Toad or VE. Kitaman went after sandroba a lot on day 1. He called him out early, voted on him (twice) and pushed his case. I don't see him doing that to his own scumbuddy (moreso since sandroba was inactive so his case just kept looking better over time). I might add that I've been voting WoS ever since the start of D2, you seem to be pretty certain on WoS, you see me voting WoS as well, you're torn between VE and me and you think I'm the better candidate for the 2nd mafia seat than VE becaaaaause?
I didn't even realized that happened my bad lol
I gave my thoughts at the time. I already said I could be very wrong on VE. I'm confident about my read on WoS. If you have the same read and gave good opinions then I got no reason to think you're mafia. As I said I've not closely read your filter because I've been focusing on WoS and the day 1 votes. I did say that I think you can prove your innocence to us by the end of night 2, and from what I've seen I don't really doubt that at this point.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 07:49 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:46 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 07:40 Foolishness wrote:
[... snipped out for thread's sake...] only talking about the part that answered me. Than what about this: On January 25 2014 10:15 Foolishness wrote:On January 25 2014 10:09 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 25 2014 10:06 Foolishness wrote:On January 25 2014 09:57 WaveofShadow wrote:I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1. I see absolutely zero reason why this section of your post is relevant, and I've said it multiple times before. I don't ever see mafia members actively trying to push lynches off their scumbuddies. However if you actually do think this way, maybe it explains why you as scum were trying to save sandroba? As I said above, if you and kitaman want to run down the conspiracy theory hole even after there's a boatload of evidence proving my innocence and very little evidence proving yours (and VE's, and Toad's, and Kitaman's) then that's cool when you lose the game for the town. I win games. Silly question then in regards to your last post: Which two of the four of us are scum? And 'it doesn't matter' doesn't cut it because there is no way in hell the rest of the players in this game will simply follow your instructions and lynch those 4 without considering all options. That's not a silly question. I believe it is you [note: you=WoS] and Toad. Though I go back and forth on whether it's Toad or VE. Kitaman went after sandroba a lot on day 1. He called him out early, voted on him (twice) and pushed his case. I don't see him doing that to his own scumbuddy (moreso since sandroba was inactive so his case just kept looking better over time). I might add that I've been voting WoS ever since the start of D2, you seem to be pretty certain on WoS, you see me voting WoS as well, you're torn between VE and me and you think I'm the better candidate for the 2nd mafia seat than VE becaaaaause? Add to that, that when you answered that question and showed explanation you showed explanation on WoS + VE when VE is the guy that dropped out of your list and was replaced with me. Shouldn't you have at least some kind of explanation for why I got into that #2 position in favor of VE when you make such a bold statement as to say that team mafia is WoS and me bussing each other while hoping that whoever survives skates through until lylo?
I've explained that my read on VE is just like, a gut feeling and not much more. I can see his actions from a townie mindset. I would not lynch you until both WoS and VE are dead (unless I was able to get a really good case on you of course).
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Also please realize Toad that I firmly believe the game ends if the following four people die: WoS, VE, Kitaman, Toad.
This is based off of confirming the other players as town. Look at it as process of elimination, not so much I have a scumread on you and evidence to back it up. That's why I said you can prove yourself as town to us over time.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 07:52 gonzaw wrote:Hmmm.... Well.......maybe we should keep the lynch on VE. Toad, I don't get it: Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:39 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 07:32 gonzaw wrote:
Toad, what do you think of Foo's last posts?
Me and kita are kind of on the fence with this lynch, and have enough votes to swing the lynch to either VE or Foolishness. You think VE is town then? Will you try to convince us to lynch Foo, or will you do nothing until deadline waiting for your townread to get lynched? I don't have a townread on VE, if I had one I'd be kicking and screaming. I didn't come to a conclusion on him because the same happened to me like 4 days ago and I happened to be town in that game which is giving me shivers. I'm kind of busy right now and only f5'in inbetween. I've told you guys to get on Foo, I told you multiple times so far and it's been ignored. I don't have the time to make a case right now. I DO think Foolishness is the way better lynch though and I DO think that reading VE tomorrow will be easier than today. That should already be enough if you seem to have the same problems I have with the recent stuff he has posted. Again, there's cookies over here so please come over VE basically gave up a long time ago, and I doubt he'll "pick up" and start putting effort. Why would you think reading VE will get any easier? What if he keeps doing nothing and saying he's apathetic and doing the stuff he did this D2? Will you say "Let's keep him around till D4, SURELY it'll be easier to read him by then"?
I will actually vouch for Toad in that I see where he's coming from about VE being easier to read later on. But you're point gonzaw makes a lot of sense as well. Two different ways of approaching it.
I'm moving my vote now because I actually have no idea what the vote count is. The case on WoS still stands but Gonzaw's point about VE makes his lynch better for the town as a whole.
##Unvote: WoS
##Vote: VisceraEyes
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 07:53 kitaman27 wrote:
Didn't you want to lynch Holy before sandroba? Has Toad's play changed your mind on him or is it just that WoS's and VE's play is just much worse since then?
Yes I did. I thought Holy was mafia based on his posts and his replacement posts. After the lynch I went back and reread them and thought "okay I can see him as town saying these things even if they are suspect". As I said earlier I go back and forth on his posts.
Toad seems like he's trying to figure things out, and even if I don't agree with his arguments he's doing things for the town and VE is not. I can't argue against VE here. I'm very confident about my read on WoS at this point, it will be reevaluated for the following day because he should be lynched asap.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 07:59 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:57 kitaman27 wrote:On January 26 2014 07:54 gonzaw wrote:
kita, you here for a possible switch or something? You believe we should keep the lynch on VE now, or do some shenannies? If VE is unwilling to return to save himself, then I don't think we should bother trying to save him. Do you agree with this?
In terms of what is good for the town yes. Even if I'm sure about WoS and not as confident about VE, a VE lynch is probably better for the town. Hence why I agreed with what Gonzaw said above even though my heart tells me that Toad is right in waiting another day to evaluate him.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 08:00 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:58 Foolishness wrote:On January 26 2014 07:53 kitaman27 wrote:
Didn't you want to lynch Holy before sandroba? Has Toad's play changed your mind on him or is it just that WoS's and VE's play is just much worse since then? Yes I did. I thought Holy was mafia based on his posts and his replacement posts. After the lynch I went back and reread them and thought "okay I can see him as town saying these things even if they are suspect". As I said earlier I go back and forth on his posts.. Why didn't you make any post about this? You didn't care to tell us why you changed your mind on your lead scum suspect? (Remember, your other "lead" scum suspect Prome was town to you after your analysis) Anyways, VE lynched I guess ....welp
Because I was focused on the day 1 vote switched. There was a lot of good information in that, including the timing of the votes on how sandroba voted for Promethelax. That was higher priority since I knew that it could possibly nearly-confirm 5 people as town. Would you rather try to confirm 5 people as town or 1 person as mafia? I went through the votes and all the timing to make sure that that analysis is sound because it sets the town in motion for an accurate plan to win the game.
Also because it was pointed out that VE and WoS were likely mafia because of the votes on me. When this was brought up with compelling arguments I focused on WoS because he was one of my initial suspects day 1. Since HolyFlare got replaced I thought that Toad could have a day to convince us of his alignment, and that seemed okay because town was focused on VE and WoS. And that was good for the town and the right thing for the town to do. If the town spent the entire day debating about HolyFlare and newcomer Toad it would not have been as productive. And that's still true even after VE now flipped green.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 26 2014 08:09 gonzaw wrote:
Foo, right now these are your "scum suspects": Toad/kita/WOS.
Choose the scum between them based on this lynch. Now
WoS/Kita.
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EPT
