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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387&user=marvellosity&view=all And there is a notable difference between that game and him this game. In that game where he is mafia he's much more trolly and has a very notable attitude: lots of swearing, calling people idiots, and quoting a post and responding "lol". Now I know his attitude has improved on the whole, but the fact that he's taking this game seriously probably does say something about him. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 06:27 marvellosity wrote: kita: I think your first and last paragraphs contain your best points, I'm going to reread on that basis now I think So what is it saying, Fool? Well it did say you were town. But now you're nitpicking over something about sandroba, and when your vote comes down on me you're definitely going to have a lot of explaining to do on why you caused a town to be lynched after not pushing anyone day 1. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 06:34 marvellosity wrote: How is that nitpicking? Why don't you seem vaguely interested in sandroba and instead only some murmurings? What were his strong posts? The one on Prome? Would you kill sand today instead of Prome? It's nitpicking cause I said that his opening was fine (when he first started posting). And I posted that not too long after he was here and posting (check the timestamps). Now you're claiming that I am, but am not but maybe I was interested and oh here's a quote from Liar Game with some analysis that is only tangentially related to my argument. At least Gonzaw's tunneling has conviction behind it (which is why he's town and you aren't). Show some conviction if you think I'm mafia. I would not bat an eye if sandroba died. The problem is is that Promethelax is mafia and there is solid information on why. What's the information saying sandroba is mafia? oh he's inactive. Well great, welcome to day 1 sandroba. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 06:38 gonzaw wrote: Foo, do you think maybe both sandro and marv are town? Care to answer that? Initial response is no. If they are both town then who is mafia? Promethelax, HolyFlare, and like, VE I guess? That doesn't make sense as there is no other third to put in. WaveOfShadow's vote might be sketchy, but watch the people who hammer this (marvellosity and company). And yes I'm actually saying that now because it needs to be said in case you guys are that incapable of reading my posts. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 06:45 gonzaw wrote: All of you guys are officially mindfucking me right now. Foo, please PLEASE tell me one thing: WTF is up with your first posts? Why: 1)Vote someone without posting any reason behind it, then AFKing before doing so 2)Randomly call 2 guys town, again, without posting any reason behind it, nor having any kind of previous interaction with them nor context to make us know why you think so. 1) To see how people would respond to it, but mostly to see how he responded. I quoted his first post (which is suspicious as I've already explained) so that you would know where I saw the evidence before I revealed my whole hand. 2) Which 2 guys? I'm pretty sure I explained everything here. + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote: Here's what I think is going on this game. There are quite a few questionable people in this game, but by eliminating some obvious town players things start to make more sense. Towniest of towns Hapa VE Kitaman Hapa is by far the most town person in this game? Why, put simply if you read his filter he is here, he is active and he is pushing pro-town agendas. This is seen because he is generating conversation, trying to organize the town and get everyone on the same page, and questioning suspicious players where appropriate. This is not a matter of debate if you have read the thread. Kitaman is similar in matter and this has already been brought to light by a few players. Actually when I started reading the game yesterday his posting reminded me a lot of myself. Slight trolly attitude to try to get things moving, but when push came to shove he was there to call people out on their shit. Now, if you want to read into that and say, "But Foolishness, Kitaman is usually a strong analyzer, posting paragraphs of information and analysis about a person's behavior and actions" I got nothing to say back about that yet. Though I'm sure time will confirm what I think here. The thing with VE is that yes, on his own some of his posts are suspicious. This one in particular made me raise an eyebrow: + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2014 01:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Morning guys. Marv no, I don't think it's the same kind of Prome that I'm used to seeing. What it reminds me of is that game I was the mayor and lynched the piss out of Prome D1. He was a lurky little shit that game, but I caught him on something very similar to what I noticed this game. Like I think it's awful that I have to ask this, but did you read my post on him? That being said, I at least dig one of his targets. I asked Foolish about his thoughts on this same matter and what I got is "lol you and Hapa townies" which is definitely NOT what I was after. He answered my question as if he'd read the exchange between us, but left me with a feeling that he hadn't actually read anything at all. If I see one more person say they're going to ignore my posts, I won't be responsible for the outcome. You have been warned. where the first two paragraphs seem really out of place and forced, though the last two sentences of the post read very town. However I think if you just read through his filter and analyze it as a whole there's nothing to be afraid of. Is he pushing any sort of mafia agenda? No. Does it feel like he doesn't have the town's best interest in mind? No. Does it feel like he's actually trying to figure things out? Yes. Now I can see why some people have shed some suspicion on him (unlike anyone calling Hapa or Kita mafia), but he just does not feel mafia, and he's definitely interested in the game. Questionable players Austin sandroba marvellosity Holyflare Gonzaw This is roughly in order of most to least town. Austin and sandroba might as well be afk until 3 pages ago, but since coming to the thread both have had strong appearances. I'm okay with them right now because they have brought things to the thread, and it is also obvious that if they continue their activity then they are town. If they keep going afk for long periods of time then start to worry. But I don't feel like that will happen. The following 3 people are all in the ? category. Marvellosity and Holyflare in particular because for all that they have said I don't feel they have really contributed much. Even as I'm writing this I'm thinking back, "what has marvellosity or holyflare done this game", and I cannot remember a single post they have made. That's a bad sign. Anything mafia indicative off the bat? No so much, but then seem to be here without actually being here. Gonzaw is only questionable and not mafia because of his recent vote on me. As kitaman properly pointed out, gonzaw brought up a lot of new information about the case on me. That's good and productive. But as he also pointed out, gonzaw just kinda did nothing with it. "Oh here you go I did some research, now don't mind me anymore let me go be trolly and lurk some more" is that kinda vibe I got from that. mafia Promethelax WaveOfShadow I will go into a little more detail here. What about this post is good? He says generic things that anybody can say. Also the "Let's do something" seems incredibly forced. What does he hope to accomplish by saying that? I don't know (most likely he's mafia) and it feels like he's trying very hard to sound like he's vested in the game (when all he would have to do is just post whatever his thoughts are). And then there's this post as well. Which fails to do nothing but ask more questions of which he never followed through on (neither of them really followed through on to be honest), when he could do have done something like actively push Promethelax to say something of substance. The thing about Promethelax is that his first post is a big pile of words and nobody said anything about it besides WoS which was just a passing remark. Here's the post again: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 11:35 Promethelax wrote: Okay broskis, this is just silly. We know how to start a game and it isn't this Mafia Scum inspired baseless lynches shall we discuss policy? Why yes we shall because you all will actually have to commit to something. Since we aren't the run of the mill hokey dory TL types I think its time we set a few ground rules: there should be no discussion of policy lynching lurkers. We simply lynch them. If everyone is good enough to be shadowed everyone is good enough to play the game and we cannot tolerate lurkers. It is my hope that this particular policy doesn't come into play since, obviously, we are the best that TL has so we should play the best as well and lurking simply isn't the best. We are all good enough to carry a town and I would like us all to be that good this game. Play your hearts out gentlemen. I would also like a non-aggression pact. That is we all agree to play nice since I'd rather like to be good role models for our newbies. And yes, I know I'm scummy for posting this, does someone want to come out and say it so that I can defend myself and we can move on with this game and make actual cases on each other and find scum. Unlike WoS I was excited to roll scum in this game, I figured I'd have an excuse to be steamrolled but if I did a good job it would be a huge accomplishment but no, I'm town, I have to figure things out. I would much rather lie to you all but fuck me, I don't get to lie to you. I gotta work for my money. So get it together boys, we are policy lynching lurkers, we aren't going to be mean to each other and we are going to catch scum. And we'll start with Hapa making a case on me, why? Because its tradition is why. Promethelax even admits that his post is awful and that we should call him out on it. Sounds great to me! This kinda bait is definitely a mafia trait and if he thinks he's posting bad then we should definitely lynch him for it. The reason being, if he knows his post his bad why is he making it in the first place? His initial post accomplishes nothing and says nothing and only adds fluff to the thread. I am also bothered by his most recent thread post: Because all his reads feel very convenient. There is nothing in his filter that gives us new information or his original thoughts. I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, honestly Promethelax is the best lynch right now because the case on him is the strongest, but I need to hear opinions on WaveOfShadow while we have the time. Who we are lynching today: Promethelax, WaveOfShadow. If they died probably not a huge loss: marvellosity, HolyFlare, Gonzaw Everyone else deserves to live another day at the least. In case you're talking about something more recent, the mafia are in the following people: Promethelax, HolyFlare, Sandroba, Marvellosity. WaveOfShadow's vote is really meh but he's probably town and I'm over-thinking it (and I'm also probably biased from my day 1 read of him). Everyone else is town, if you want an explanation then ask and say who. I don't have time to respond to all your tunnel arguments. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 06:51 gonzaw wrote: Is there ANYBODY who believes Holy might be a good D1 lynch? Even if you don't believe he might be a good lynch (because of replacement stuff), did that last post of his convince you he's town? Did it have an impact on your read of him? If so why? marvy, you said you would be thinking about Holy after you come back.....so? You are just focusing on Foo now. Yes. No. More sure he's mafia because he didn't bring anything new to the table. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 06:56 marvellosity wrote: Fool in brief. Am I mafia? Is sand mafia? Just based on likelihoods, doesn't need to be certain Yes Yes On January 23 2014 06:56 gonzaw wrote: So Foo. The contradiction I found against Holy made you think he was like 100% scum. Next time you come, you say "oh, Holy made that replacement post, maybe I'm overthinking this" and you keep going against Prome. Did Holy's post really convince you he's not that surefire scum you thought he was before? You mean by calling you scum and tunneling you until your D1 lynch? Sounds like a great plan Foolishness! As I said, my posts always accomplish something (besides the one I posted before this cause you guys frustrate me to no end). You want to run wild theories that's fine by me, but I'm pretty sure you find less mafia than I do. Yes, HolyFlare lynch is good. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:41 gonzaw wrote: There too fucking many coincidences going on. Sandro coming out of getting modkilled to get the 2nd guy with most votes and vote him. Prome coming out of nowhere, yet vote the only guy that would prevent his lynch. Then Hapa coming out of nowhere and apparently voting Prome without having read the thread yet. Or there's a very simple explanation to what's going on here. I don't like the sandroba thing any more than you do I assure you. But he did his research. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Sandroba is still iffy | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:53 gonzaw wrote: Oh yeah why not? He's on your 4 guys likely to be scum right? Are you saying right now that you are FOR SURE sure that Prome, Holy and marv are scum? Do you think Holy is scum after that vote on me above? Why don't you vote sandro Foo vote sandro VOTE SANDRO I'm probably going to have to anyways so don't worry lol Perhaps I'm just that sure on Promethelax, and in these situations my reads get messed up in my head because of all the pressure. So I default to my strongest read before going on crazy goose chases. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Also "Back. Caught up and also read Prome. Fine with a prome lynch." - Austin | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 08:00 gonzaw wrote: If sandro is town I take full responsibility for this. You can yell at me in the thread and Obs QT. Should just move to Promethelax, I'll let you have the credit when he flips mafia. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 08:02 Promethelax wrote: Fucking lurker lynch. I was hoping I wouldn't have to lurker lynch. On January 21 2014 11:35 Promethelax wrote: Since we aren't the run of the mill hokey dory TL types I think its time we set a few ground rules: there should be no discussion of policy lynching lurkers. We simply lynch them. If everyone is good enough to be shadowed everyone is good enough to play the game and we cannot tolerate lurkers. So get it together boys, we are policy lynching lurkers, we aren't going to be mean to each other and we are going to catch scum. And we'll start with Hapa making a case on me, why? Because its tradition is why. Uh oh | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 08:05 Hapahauli wrote: Anyway Foolish, given the flip, how likely do you think it is that Prome is mafia? Hasn't changed a thing. I'm pretty sure his vote didn't mean anything, still looking it over to be sure. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 08:13 gonzaw wrote: Although to be honest, marvs vote on Foo was kind of weird. That's why I said that the sandroba lynch wasn't good. Vote count: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=41#820 At this vote count: Foolishness: 6 Promethelax: 3 Then gonzaw and Austin both vote sandroba. Then Marvellosity votes sandroba. Foolishness: 4 Promethelax: 3 sandroba: 3 Then Hapahauli votes for sandroba Foolishness: 3 Promethelax: 3 sandroba: 4 Then Promethelax votes for sandroba Foolishness: 2 Promethelax: 3 sandroba: 5 Technically Hapahauli had the hammer. But Promethelax voted 1 minute after Hapa did. So yes, Promethelax's vote did not count in the grand scheme of things. Considering that his vote was only a minute after Hapa, he might as well be considered a hammer vote as well. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 08:42 gonzaw wrote: The only thing I'm kind of scared is if actually Prome is mafia with sandro and this was some weird gambit, in which they planned on actually getting Foolishness lynched instead. I mean, you do remember Prome's "We policy lynch lurkers no matter what!" line at the beginning of the game, and he then not doing anything at all regarding sandro right? Oh god....oh god oh man oh god oh man :O O: ...lol. But other than that, I think we are on good tracks I don't think that's actually possible. Look at the order of events. Starting at this point where there are 6 votes on me and 3 on Promethelax (keep in mind this is 12 minutes before the deadline): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=41#820 The six votes on me are (in order of when they occurred): VisceraEyes, gonzaw, WaveofShadow, Promethelax, marvellosity, Hapahauli. Now there is definitely some analysis to be done on how these votes accumulated on me but I will save that for later. At this point gonzaw started the switch on sandroba. Austin immediately joined in. Now only gonzaw was voting on me so I'm still winning by a landslide. It's possible that they did this thinking there is no way a bandwagon on sandroba would start, but I highly doubt they would have that attitude. That is, entertain the thought for a second that gonzaw/Austin are actually mafia. They could just hammer the vote on me to ensure a town lynch (incredibly easy for gonzaw to do, Austin could just toss his vote on Promethelax or somewhere else). But that didn't happen. Then marvellosity switches his vote as well. At this point I have 4 votes and Promethelax and sandroba both have 3. Hapa and Promethelax also follow shortly after. It's definitely clear that the switch to sandroba was started and enforced by towns. This was not mafia bussing each other. The big question to answer here is: what reason would mafia have for switching off of me onto sandroba? If I'm town, there's definitely no reason to. I'm hovering around 50% of votes (HolyFlare's vote isn't going to count), it'd be so easy to just ensure that I got voted. The only scenario where the mafia would have reason to switch is if I'm also mafia (which isn't true). But that scenario, however absurd, would be reasonable, thinking that I'm more valuable to the mafia than sandroba is at this point. Thus I am in the belief that the votes on sandroba were mostly, if not 100%, town. Including my top suspect Promethelax. This seems to make a lot more sense given how that went down. What does this all mean? Mafia could have ensured I was lynched if they were on the vote switch, so why bother vote switching in the first place? No, mafia did not vote switch. What's more likely is that the mafia were voting for me but not on the switch (VE, WoS) or the mafia were all voting for Promethelax (me, sandroba, kitaman). Note that kitaman was going against sandroba during day 1. Remember that assuming Promethelax is town, mafia were in a great position at the end of the day. Town Foolishness has 6 votes and the runner up at 3 votes is also town. This is great for them cause they get to decide who's getting lynched. If I'm mafia why is there not more votes on Promethelax and where is my team to defend me? Sure I got kitaman pushing for Promethelax but I was in a desperate situation there. Things wouldn't have unfolded the way they did if that was the case. So instead this means that mafia were likely already voting for me. But they wouldn't want to go with the vote switch since that was on a mafia. VE is the only person that fits this bill since he was strangely absent during lynch time (and he posted 15 minutes after the lynch). WoS would be gone but I did feel his vote on me was questionable (will look into that later don't worry). Mafia were voting for me and were sitting comfortably, and when a vote switch happened they weren't around for it. | ||
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