EPT
maybe like a department store?
TL Mafia Community Thread - Page 94
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
maybe like a department store? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I gotta say, I'm pleased that TL Mafia still pulls a big enough player base that a game like LXXI: Gaiden can fill up and run. I think the new Student format for newbies is working out well since my initial push for it a while back. Now that a full "generation" of players has come through the system and made their way out into regular games, I thought I'd solicit some feedback from those players about the format. For those of you who didn't know, for a long time "Newbie" games were exclusively open to newbies. You'd have a 9 player or 13 player game, and every player in that game would be a newbie. The newbies would be assigned coaches etc like happens now with Student games, but there would be no slots reserved for experience players and experience players were in fact prohibited from signing up. the new Student format is designed so that half the game slots are reserved for new players, and the other half can go to either experienced or new players. Depending on the level of interest, a game might be mostly new players, or mostly experienced players. Student games seem to fill up more quickly than newbie games, and it seems like players are a little less lost in them. It also gives people a chance to interact with the experienced players more, which could be good or bad depending on your point of view. It gives less opportunity for things like a new Meta to develop, since people are immediately put in contact with existing players. On the other hand, I think it lets people get integrated into the TL Mafia community more quickly, and the games themselves are more fun with experienced players on hand to guide new players. What do you guys think? I'd love to hear back from people who have played in Student games, either as new players or experienced players (or as both!), or who have coached, hosted, or observed these games. What have we done well, and not done well, with these setups? What could we do better? Even if you don't have a solution in mind, if there's anything that can be improved, feel free to bring it up and we can brainstorm something. Hosting Games One of my main goals is to make sure lots of people get an opportunity to play in and host games they're interested in. A lot of great game ideas have come from new players who became hosts and co-hosts. A while back, I had a regular stream of players who were interested in hosting, and I think I did a decent job of having them co-host games with me then graduate to moving on to hosting. I've noticed recently most of my co-hosts have been drawn from existing hosts/co-hosts. I doubt that the latest crop of new players are less interested in hosting than average, so I'm trying to think of what to do to introduce new players to hosting, or identify what makes them not interested now. Is it a lack of exposure, with people just not aware of the opportunity? New players, if you've been interested in getting involved in hosting and haven't, let me know what you think. | ||
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
On July 07 2015 09:03 Blazinghand wrote: Student Games I gotta say, I'm pleased that TL Mafia still pulls a big enough player base that a game like LXXI: Gaiden can fill up and run. I think the new Student format for newbies is working out well since my initial push for it a while back. Now that a full "generation" of players has come through the system and made their way out into regular games, I thought I'd solicit some feedback from those players about the format. For those of you who didn't know, for a long time "Newbie" games were exclusively open to newbies. You'd have a 9 player or 13 player game, and every player in that game would be a newbie. The newbies would be assigned coaches etc like happens now with Student games, but there would be no slots reserved for experience players and experience players were in fact prohibited from signing up. the new Student format is designed so that half the game slots are reserved for new players, and the other half can go to either experienced or new players. Depending on the level of interest, a game might be mostly new players, or mostly experienced players. Student games seem to fill up more quickly than newbie games, and it seems like players are a little less lost in them. It also gives people a chance to interact with the experienced players more, which could be good or bad depending on your point of view. It gives less opportunity for things like a new Meta to develop, since people are immediately put in contact with existing players. On the other hand, I think it lets people get integrated into the TL Mafia community more quickly, and the games themselves are more fun with experienced players on hand to guide new players. What do you guys think? I'd love to hear back from people who have played in Student games, either as new players or experienced players (or as both!), or who have coached, hosted, or observed these games. What have we done well, and not done well, with these setups? What could we do better? Even if you don't have a solution in mind, if there's anything that can be improved, feel free to bring it up and we can brainstorm something. Hosting Games One of my main goals is to make sure lots of people get an opportunity to play in and host games they're interested in. A lot of great game ideas have come from new players who became hosts and co-hosts. A while back, I had a regular stream of players who were interested in hosting, and I think I did a decent job of having them co-host games with me then graduate to moving on to hosting. I've noticed recently most of my co-hosts have been drawn from existing hosts/co-hosts. I doubt that the latest crop of new players are less interested in hosting than average, so I'm trying to think of what to do to introduce new players to hosting, or identify what makes them not interested now. Is it a lack of exposure, with people just not aware of the opportunity? New players, if you've been interested in getting involved in hosting and haven't, let me know what you think. So I liked it quite a bit. A couple of the suggestions I would have would be more of about the setup - and have it be a bit more consistent (We had a game with two masons, town RB, and another blue) and then we have the A/B/C/D setup (Which in ways I do like, but if you get the Vigi/Vet one and since the vet can be RB'ed, it's kind of meh) - beyond that I liked them a lot and had a nice mix of types of players. The other would be some others have had is if a game takes a month plus (or a reasonable time) to fill, then maybe drop some restrictions on who can join, but I believe one game already had this happen. I watched the champion games on 2+2 - and saw the 9 vanilla 1 cop with a n0 free green check vs 3 goon - mafia couldn't talk in their QT during the day (which seemed to make it town favored and I think they should be able to talk anytime in the QT) - is this a bad setup for NSM games? On hosting - I would like to co-host a game in the future - but my schedule can be really wonky and IF the host isn't available at a certain time and neither am I - I would feel bad (I guess you can have three co-hosts or have a neutral player do the flip etc.). I think maybe a little more explanation for a co-host How do you RNG? How do you decide the number of roles? How do you use random.org into the rolelist? Do you make it first on google docs? How do you communicate with the other hosts (a QT I assume?) How do you do vote counts? Do you do them by hand or is there a program that helps you with vote counts? If by hand, why hasn't some nerd on TL made something that automates vote counts?) There's a lot of questions that seem to remain "hush hush" , in my opinion. Maybe a post explaining a lot of the levels of hosting/co-hosting I mentioned above I believe would be helpful. (I guess you could think like OBS'ing a game first, but for hosts - But if you asked to co-host with that stated ahead of time, I wouldn't see an issue, right?) | ||
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 08 2015 09:20 scott31337 wrote: So I liked it quite a bit. A couple of the suggestions I would have would be more of about the setup - and have it be a bit more consistent (We had a game with two masons, town RB, and another blue) and then we have the A/B/C/D setup (Which in ways I do like, but if you get the Vigi/Vet one and since the vet can be RB'ed, it's kind of meh) - beyond that I liked them a lot and had a nice mix of types of players. The other would be some others have had is if a game takes a month plus (or a reasonable time) to fill, then maybe drop some restrictions on who can join, but I believe one game already had this happen. I watched the champion games on 2+2 - and saw the 9 vanilla 1 cop with a n0 free green check vs 3 goon - mafia couldn't talk in their QT during the day (which seemed to make it town favored and I think they should be able to talk anytime in the QT) - is this a bad setup for NSM games? On hosting - I would like to co-host a game in the future - but my schedule can be really wonky and IF the host isn't available at a certain time and neither am I - I would feel bad (I guess you can have three co-hosts or have a neutral player do the flip etc.). I think maybe a little more explanation for a co-host How do you RNG? How do you decide the number of roles? How do you use random.org into the rolelist? Do you make it first on google docs? How do you communicate with the other hosts (a QT I assume?) How do you do vote counts? Do you do them by hand or is there a program that helps you with vote counts? If by hand, why hasn't some nerd on TL made something that automates vote counts?) There's a lot of questions that seem to remain "hush hush" , in my opinion. Maybe a post explaining a lot of the levels of hosting/co-hosting I mentioned above I believe would be helpful. (I guess you could think like OBS'ing a game first, but for hosts - But if you asked to co-host with that stated ahead of time, I wouldn't see an issue, right?) i think scott is town | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
It's been so long since I've been a non-host that I've forgotten what it's like to not know! So as a host, basically the requirements for activity are similar to playing in the game. You need to read every post in the game to make sure people are following the rules, though obviously you don't need to figure out who is mafia or whatever. Your main responsibilities are: pregame, you manage the player list, handle signups, set up the setup, RNG the roles, and start the game. During the game, you do vote counts, make sure people play nice, handle the day/night post and flips. AT the end of the game, you close the game, handle ban list actions, and notify Foolishness of game completion. You basically need to check in the thread 3-4 times per day and get caught up on reading, then post a vote count. Generally, the last 1 hour before the deadline you have to spend in thread doing vote coints. Since your'e the host, you can set the dealdine to whenver you want, so set it to a time when no matter what day of the week it is, you're available for that hour. If you can't be available for most of your game's deadlines, then you should set a different deadline or be a co-host. Alternatively, find a very trusted co-host who you know will be able to handle the day/night posts for you. To answer your questions RNGing I RNG using an online dice roller. So I do something like this "My setup is 5 VTs, a Cop, a Veteran, a Mafia RB, and a Mafia Goon. Therefore, I need to RNG 4 roles: Cop, Vet, Mafia RB, Mafia Goon. Everyone else is VTs. Here is a list of players, numbered 1 through 9. I am going to use a tool to roll 9-sided Dice 4 times. Let's see what I got. I rolled a 4, a 2, a 7, and another 2. I reroll the 2. Now it's a 4, a 2, a 7, and a 1. Player 4 is cop, 2 is vet, 7 is Mafia RB, 1 is goon." Some hosts like to fiddle it around so one team isn't too strong. I dont' do that. I always let RNG decide the teams. Setup Balance Setup balance is complicated. Generally, your basic setups are 7 vs 2 (9 players) and 10 vs 3 (13 players). Bigger games or themed games have different setups. In 9-player mini mafias, town has 1.5 blue roles. In 13 player mini mafia, town has 2.5 blue roles. If you want to host a game, you PM someone on the balance team with your setup info and they'll help you. I'm on the balance team and am the most active person who is there so I'm usually a good bet. GreyMist is more knowledgeable about themed games than I am so he can be the right choice if your'e going that way. How do you use random.org? I do not use random.org. I use an RNG generator to generate my RNGs. I assign the players numbers, then for each role I use RNG to determine which player it goes to. Host communication? For me, I do this via a QT. Generally speaking there's very little to communicate about; the QT is just to store info like roles and night actions in case I get sick or something and a co-host needs ot take over, or if I need to tell someone to handle a day or night post for me. If we're having trouble dealing with player behavior, sometimes we consult there. Most hosting that's done is just vote counting and phase posts. Vote counts? Most people use a tool. I do it by hand. How do you become a host? What's the deal? Anyone can become a host who has played on TL Mafia. If you go to the Active LIst of Mafia games sticky, every now and then you see a host say "hey, I'm hosting a new game and I need a cohost." Then you say "I want to cohost" and he says "excellent. I, Blazinghand, and super cool and will show you the ropes". Alternatively, just post in there saying "next person who needs a cohost, let me know and I'll be your cohost" and then the next guy who needs a cohost will PM you. Once you've co-hosted a game, you can apply to be a host. Send a PM to Foolishness with a link to a couple games youv'e played on TL Mafia, and the game(s) you're cohosted. Say something like "I want to be a host" and a sentence or two about how you'll be a good host. Foolishness will say "ok, you're now a host. You can add games to the Active Games queue like all the other hosts" and your'e part of the club! I've noticed most of the co-hosts nowadays are people who have already co-hosted which is why I brought this up. I try to include new people as my cohosts whenever possible so that we can get new people hosting games, since that means I don't have to host as much. I'm super lazy and so the less work I do the better | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18485 Posts
Didn't read them, so puhhhh | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On July 08 2015 13:20 Acrofales wrote: Wtf. Isn't this the thread where ppl meet to play Dota? Why are there walls of text? Didn't read them, so puhhhh Obvious scum is obvious. ##Vote: Acrofales | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On hosting I think BH covered most of the key points - there are a few misconceptions though I think might put people off - 1 Time commitment - setup requires the most amount of time, and after that it's vote counts and then EoDs/EoNs. Larger games - slightly more. Obviously delegation is key. 2 Communication - I use a combination of QTs/Steam if I have to talk with a cohost more in detail. Some hosts prefer NOT to use QTs but it's mostly preference. 3 Vote counts - I know there are a few python scripts out there, but I generally do these by hand. Either way it's not hard and just make sure you don't do it too infrequently. This may require having another host in a different timezone. 4 Team picking - same as BH. I know others may have different philosophies but I think host WIFOM is out of game information and pure RNG eliminates that. Of those newer players/newer hosts I've worked with, the biggest hesitations/worries I've seen from people are: 1 Shennanies This takes time and experience. Honestly just prompt the people in game to stop posting and then TAKE YOUR TIME re-counting the votes. I think nearly every player understands that when there are significant vote switches the results simply cannot be up right away. I would rather take an extra 15 minutes counting the votes than get a lynch wrong because the latter just screws everyone over, and I have done this in my larger games. Accuracy above all else. And most of the time you are counting with a co-host/host. You're not alone and I've even seen Palmar tell people to correct him in Carol prior to the flip. 2 Decision making/discipline (not wanting to play bad cop) Again, time and experience, both in game and as a host. I don't want this to be a discussion on how lenient/strict hosts should be because that's not the point. I think for the sake of newer hosts learning - it's important that for consistency's sake all hosts get on the same page (voting/inactivity/behaviour/other subjective matters) and then proceed. I think whatever people's personal philosophy is, is less of an issue, because it is honestly one of those things they learn as they go, and consistency is just discussion prior to the game starting. When I first started cohosting I always asked different people's approach and just followed that until I felt comfortable enough to host my own. General rule of thumb is that rules might be more lax (except behaviour, IDK) in newbie games than veteran games. | ||
Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6789 Posts
Anyone still play league? I used to feed with wave and VE a bit back in like 2013 and I just started playing more frequently again this summer. Edit: actually wave when you read this, how's your little guy these days? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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