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Yeah but i am not sure what's wrong with those things?
- EU is a joke. I knew it when i was 11 years old. I could have forecast all the problems it brings when there are rich countries and poor countries put under same set of rules and "same economy" + giving everyone a right to move between countries freely. Example; Based on a poll in Turkey, if they get to join EU, almost 16% of the adult people seriously consider moving to Britain. That's about 12 million people.... The only thing Britain can do to avoid that is to leave EU. And i don't blame them if that happens. I would instantly do the same.
- They are against uncontrolled immigration which is a big problem all over Europe right now. It doesn't help that some idiots who open their arms to everyone for a nice multicultural federal state...Everyone with any brain knows that even without the problems that come from cultural clashes the welfare system of a developed country that ACTUALLY HAS ONE can't handle the masses. There is just no money. The equation is impossible.
- About the islamisation.. Yeah i am also against that. If you are not maybe you guys in USA can take all the asylum seekers from the areas you went to start wars and if not caused, at least gave those people a reason to seek for one?  I believe the public reason for that was islamic terrorism right?
I mean, realistically how does it sound if someone now decided that USA forms a federal state with let's say Haiti. The people from there have a right to freely move anywhere in USA and they are entitled to to the same social welfare any american person is. People in USA would pay taxes ranging from ~10%-50% based on income to cover the welfare expenses amongst other things taxes cover for (just an example so you can see how the stuff is many parts of Europe as i know it's not like that in USA). For fair comparison let's also say the population of Haiti is ~50 million. Would you agree it's a good idea? What would you think will happen in a scenario like that?
I also know a lot of people call that racism. If accepting the reality makes me a racist then i probably am a racist. I just think European culture is European culture for a reason and i don't really see a reason to change that.
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yup rayn is now confirmed a pretty cool guy. like really really confirmed.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I'm not saying everyone who supports an ethnonationalist party has no reason to do so-- it's not like 49.5% of Austrians are racist or evil or something. Also, Austria is not America, and they have their own set of problems and issues to deal with, and clearly, nearly half of Austrians think that this direction is the right direction to go. Political movements arise for real reasons. None of this means that the FPA isn't an ethnonationalist party, though. It clearly is. This doesn't make it inherently illegitimate. This doesn't make it inherently insane. This does, however, show a movement against a pan-european state and identity.
Also, a minor point, the EU and the Schengen Area are not perfectly coterminous, and in fact the UK is one of the many members that maintains some kind of opt-outs and exceptions. There are a couple members that aren't part of Schengen at all.
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I also hate TTIP because it will for sure never do any good for Finland and therefore i hope Trump is the next American president. 
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Nha Trump is a jackass. Bernie would be best probably.
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Oh i am sorry, i wasn't trying to argue that FPA isn't an ethnonationalist party. I just wanted to know what you mean by it because it looked like you didn't like it for some reason (or that it's "worrisome") just because it's an ethnonationalist party. I couldn't understand that. And as i said i don't understand what is bad in being anti-pan-european state, it doesn't really benefit any of the richer countries in Europe -- and it's not really that good for poorer ones aswell (lol) as the reality has shown.
I also do not think Schengen changed anything regarding a normal European travelling to another country in Europe. Someone can correct me if i am wrong but imo the only thing that "benefits" from Schengen comes with the word "illegal"....
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On May 25 2016 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:I also hate TTIP because it will for sure never do any good for Finland and therefore i hope Trump is the next American president.
Agreed on the TTIP.
I also seriously doubt turkey will become part of the eu. I mean you can do and say a lot of bullshit as a politician but noone can justify adding this country.
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On May 25 2016 08:05 justanothertownie wrote:
I also seriously doubt turkey will become part of the eu. [...] noone can justify adding this country.
Hopefully this is the case.
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On May 25 2016 05:57 Blazinghand wrote:
What's not funny is how close to the far-rightists got to getting control of that government. It's relieving to see that they didn't come to power. Hopefully other countries in the first world can also stave off their own ethnonationalist tendencies.
I'm not surprised they got so much support after the media coverage we got about the flood of refugees a while back. It was pretty hard not to get influenced with the amount of people you saw in the news and Merkel being like "yea we'll take you all in" as if she was speaking for all of europe. Reading through the newspapers comments the sentiment turned towards anti-asylum pretty quickly and I wouldn't be surprised that the right wing party would have won if the elections had been held during that period. I probably would have voted right wing myself during that time, still amazed at myself how quickly I got influenced by the news, but I guess it's normal if the refugee flood is so huge that it sounds like an invasion, plus all the scary stories you tend to read about places where a lot of muslims come together. Where I live I didn't witness anything crass of the sort in first person however.
On May 25 2016 06:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 05:57 Blazinghand wrote:
What's not funny is how close to the far-rightists got to getting control of that government. It's relieving to see that they didn't come to power. Hopefully other countries in the first world can also stave off their own ethnonationalist tendencies. I am not sure why that would be a bad thing? I am also not sure what you are talking about with "ethnonationalist tendencies". Have you even seen what his party's political views are? It's not like they are some neo-nazis...
They are mostly busy just trying to defend from the accusations that they are too extreme. Looking at austrian parties history the three major parties all took in some ex nazi/nsdap member in their beginning, I wager simply cause it was pretty common to be one during the bad ol days unless you liked to be shunned, imprisoned or considered meaningless by what was the majority at the time.
And the FPÖ still has some practices that I would deem questionable. Like being the only party recruiting members from so called deutschnationale Burschenschaften which are student fraternities that still cling to the traditions of late 19th century when Nationalism as an idea was pretty strong and their members in Austria wished to be part of Germany once again like during the time of the Holy Roman Empire. These guys also fight with sabres as part of this tradition and for them getting scarred in a spar is something they take with pride, there are pictures of party members with such scars around ("schmiss").
I would say these guys are worse than neonazis, who drink, start fights and shave their heads. These guys are full fledged nationalists with a questionable vicinity to old practices, but they try their best to disguise it, that actually makes them dangerous.
Having said that, I'm opposed to more immigration cause we got a good bunch of newcomers and when the intake is too fast they tend to seclude themselves into communities instead of assuming the habits and culture of the locals which is something I see as necessary for successful integration. I would do the same if I had access to a pool of "my own", no need to learn anything new if there are enough people around with my old habits.
But I don't think that the issue will be solved by electing this party. This result should be warning enough to the conservatives that they need to wield sharper weapons in the immigration question, so the fpö was good for that at least.
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I would say these guys are worse than neonazis, who drink, start fights and shave their heads. These guys are full fledged nationalists with a questionable vicinity to old practices, but they try their best to disguise it, that actually makes them dangerous.
Are there any concrete examples of this?
I am genuinely interested because from what i know and read i haven't seen any.
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On May 25 2016 09:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +I would say these guys are worse than neonazis, who drink, start fights and shave their heads. These guys are full fledged nationalists with a questionable vicinity to old practices, but they try their best to disguise it, that actually makes them dangerous. Are there any concrete examples of this? I am genuinely interested because from what i know and read i haven't seen any.
It's probably a bit harsh to say that all of them are like it. I know of their chairman having pictures of him leaked doing paramilitary exercises which he ofc claimed was paintball (No one really knows what it was, but I didn't see any ink on their uniforms), and a few of their members going fullout politically incorrect with some statements.
How it applies to the entire party I don't know but the additional fact so many of their high tiers are in such fraternities already leads me to that conclusion.
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On May 25 2016 07:13 Koshi wrote:
Nha Trump is a jackass. Bernie would be best probably.
Trump doesn't know what he's talking about. Hillary is definitely not trustworthy – and even worse is that her instinctive response to things is to cover them up. Bernie's policies give us a worse economy lololololol.
-.- Makes me want Obama for a third term.
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On May 25 2016 08:41 Vivax wrote:Having said that, I'm opposed to more immigration cause we got a good bunch of newcomers and when the intake is too fast they tend to seclude themselves into communities instead of assuming the habits and culture of the locals which is something I see as necessary for successful integration. I would do the same if I had access to a pool of "my own", no need to learn anything new if there are enough people around with my old habits.
: ]
Not exactly correct. The best way to "integrate" is to have a community that's already undergone the process and is looking to help newcomers. The way to get that community set up can happen from some "integrated" individuals that decide to start an initiative but it also helps to have government support. Also, communities naturally "integrate" when their children grow up in a different culture and that influences them. It's a natural process that doesn't really have one or two ways. The idea that immigration makes secluded communities is a myth as that's naturally impossible.
The only real danger of immigrants are the young adults that are looking to start fresh but really can't find an opportunity or a place. They're gonna hafta vent their frustration somewhere.
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On May 25 2016 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:I also hate TTIP because it will for sure never do any good for Finland and therefore i hope Trump is the next American president.
Yeah, but what exactly do you hate about it. There's so much misinformation about the matter it makes most folks just want to throw their arms in the air and go back to their good ol' cubbyholes. Can't just say that the economy will take a downturn because that's just too vague.
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Lenient immigration, strict policies for immigrants. Give everyone a chance but if they fuck it up, kick 'em out. Dunno why anyone wants anything else tbh. Even if you're only looking after your own interests, there's a bunch of smart immigrants who can contribute that'd be nice to have in your country.
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On May 25 2016 10:56 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 08:41 Vivax wrote:Having said that, I'm opposed to more immigration cause we got a good bunch of newcomers and when the intake is too fast they tend to seclude themselves into communities instead of assuming the habits and culture of the locals which is something I see as necessary for successful integration. I would do the same if I had access to a pool of "my own", no need to learn anything new if there are enough people around with my old habits. : ] Not exactly correct. The best way to "integrate" is to have a community that's already undergone the process and is looking to help newcomers. The way to get that community set up can happen from some "integrated" individuals that decide to start an initiative but it also helps to have government support. Also, communities naturally "integrate" when their children grow up in a different culture and that influences them. It's a natural process that doesn't really have one or two ways. The idea that immigration makes secluded communities is a myth as that's naturally impossible. The only real danger of immigrants are the young adults that are looking to start fresh but really can't find an opportunity or a place. They're gonna hafta vent their frustration somewhere.
I can't really say if you're right or wrong after thinking it a bit through (but you forget to consider cultural background imo), mostly cause it really depends on the figures we're talking about. If I let 1 million into the country here they will make up 1/9th of the population without properly speaking german, having no job, and a completely different system of values. That is going to cause problems. 100000 on the other hand could be manageable, but it will take years (edit:decades) for them (rather their children) to actually be considered austrians outside of their passports.
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in the '80 a shitton of Moroccans came to Belgium to work here and the integration level is still pretty low in a lot of areas but I feel like it is slowly getting better lately. It is now the 3rd generation (aka last 5 years) that talks actual dutch on the streets/school etc. When I was 12-14 they all talked Arabian between each other, always and everywhere. So integration takes 30 years or more. Some will obviously never integrate and but the majority will.
But letting in all these Syrians is a mistake. The people who think it is ok to add a shitton of people to the lowest income bracket in a full supporting social system are fucking retarded. I can't put it in any other way... 30 years problems with the previous wave... There are still a lot of current issues with them, and most of those the government can't handle, like the prejudgment from a lot of people and companies resulting in them not getting employment as easy etc etc.
Voting for the extreme right wing parties is the best statement people can make. Not that I agree with their more extreme views or members but max 40% of the population will vote them anyway so they won't get too much power. Too many freeloaders and dumb people in this country that need the left wing party giveaways. And then a bunch of people who still believe 100% socialism is the way to go.
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On May 25 2016 11:01 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:I also hate TTIP because it will for sure never do any good for Finland and therefore i hope Trump is the next American president. Yeah, but what exactly do you hate about it. There's so much misinformation about the matter it makes most folks just want to throw their arms in the air and go back to their good ol' cubbyholes. Can't just say that the economy will take a downturn because that's just too vague.
It reduces governments possibilities to allow/disallow things that happens within their borders. An example of this is from last year when a canadian electricity company tried to rise their prizes here just because. Electricity companies already do make a shitton of money so the government said no. With TTIP they could sue the government and regardless of who wins it costs a shitton of money and time. I don't know how you guys do stuff in USA but here for example electricity and healthcare and things like that are things that are not allowed to be priced mindlessly just because some company wants even more money they are already making. TTIP basically allows that, or it allows companies to "overrun" national policies and sue them which is not good for economy and peoples well-being as i understand it.
I don't also understand how lowering the taxes and custom prices can possibly help a country where producing almost anything is already not-profitable from "creating new jobs" perspective. I can't understand how some politicians here can be so fucking stupid they even try to argue that. Even a 10yr old child realizes what happens when producing product A costs let's say $20 here and $10 someplace else, and shipping it here costs $2...
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Speaking of immigration, there is the somali population in finland that has been "integrating" since 1990. 25 years and they have managed to integrate so well the employment rate amongst them is a whopping 20% and unemployment rate over 55%...
Integrating someone to a different kind of society or culture always starts with the people themselves wanting to integrate. Certain people clearly do not want to do that. There are immigrants who came here last year and went back to "middle of war" because it's fucking dangerous here in Finland because racism ofc and also food is so bad (yes, this is what they ACTUALLY said).
That's some good willingness to integrate!
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On May 25 2016 11:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Lenient immigration, strict policies for immigrants. Give everyone a chance but if they fuck it up, kick 'em out. Dunno why anyone wants anything else tbh. Even if you're only looking after your own interests, there's a bunch of smart immigrants who can contribute that'd be nice to have in your country.
Yes, exactly this.
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EPT
