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On December 10 2013 07:36 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town. So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive. The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this. I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing. In my opinion natural scum play is to stay low, especially on day 1, the town tends to self destruct anyways day 1. This whole entire "starting shit" strat is actually pretty good, even though it is counterintuitive to the idea of trying to not draw attention. Thus I assumed this strat is not very obvious, especially since I personally never considered it. This is all pure speculation. Something more grounded is that Xatalos is definably acting very different from before, and in my eyes less of a townie
I don't feel like Xatalos put himself in the spotlight as much as trying to put others in the spotlight. Corazon put himself in the spotlight without any scum gain. When you look at his post from a scum point of view, it doesn't make sense for them to make it. I can see a scum agenda behind Xatalos' posts. That said, I do like his view on my pressure on him in that it was nuanced rather than trying to score town points. The rest of the day should provide more information.
On December 10 2013 07:36 Holyflare wrote:Nobody going to discuss cora's mindset or are you going to dismiss it outright for xantos discussion some more? Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum.
Given you quoted me I take it you'd like a response from me? I don't find Corazon scummy at this point in time because he drew attention to himself without any scum benefit.
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On December 10 2013 08:01 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:36 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town. So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive. The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this. I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing. In my opinion natural scum play is to stay low, especially on day 1, the town tends to self destruct anyways day 1. This whole entire "starting shit" strat is actually pretty good, even though it is counterintuitive to the idea of trying to not draw attention. Thus I assumed this strat is not very obvious, especially since I personally never considered it. This is all pure speculation. Something more grounded is that Xatalos is definably acting very different from before, and in my eyes less of a townie I don't feel like Xatalos put himself in the spotlight as much as trying to put others in the spotlight. Corazon put himself in the spotlight without any scum gain. When you look at his post from a scum point of view, it doesn't make sense for them to make it. I can see a scum agenda behind Xatalos' posts. That said, I do like his view on my pressure on him in that it was nuanced rather than trying to score town points. The rest of the day should provide more information. On December 10 2013 07:36 Holyflare wrote:Nobody going to discuss cora's mindset or are you going to dismiss it outright for xantos discussion some more? On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum. Given you quoted me I take it you'd like a response from me? I don't find Corazon scummy at this point in time because he drew attention to himself without any scum benefit. Is it not also a scum mindset to heavily defend themselves when attacked, unnaturally so? Also while defending themselves to then deflect upon another person? Why are you only looking for the people that are "starting shit"? I only know a few scum that play that way. Have you any scum meta on Xatalos that suggests he plays like he is? I don't like how you're so dismissive over cora without discussion when with Xantos you skim the filters to discuss him further. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town. So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive. The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this. I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing. Look at the difference between these two points - on the one hand (cora) is dismissed by saying "I don't think scum plays that way" whereas the second (Xatalos) is "I have skimmed it briefly and think it's different because X,Y,Z. Question, question.
It's simple. Cora's post could not achieve any scum agenda. I don't see scum reasoning behind his posts more so than a town player would, whereas Xalatos' posts can definitely serve a scum agenda, and I feel they have though I liked his followups since then.
I like LSB's points on Sidesprang and Rayn's points on purple. Rayn's more so than LSB but I'd need to do a rereading and I'm lazy.
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On December 10 2013 19:41 Holyflare wrote:
I'm not sure I follow you in regards to pushing "scum agendas". It's quite simple for a person to not do anything other than their normal town play as scum on day 1. Why would scum be pushing "agendas" so brazenly? The only reason they would need to conform to some agenda would be to get votes off of a person if it was their scum buddy - in this case - it would be off of cora who he is attacking.
If he's not pushing any agenda then there is nothing in his posts that prove he's scum or not. The point is to prove someone is scum, not prove that they're bad. Xatalos would be pushing for a scum agenda by causing chaos, creating multiple targets or securing a mislynch. Corazon only mentioned he could be inactive later, and he's played enough games to know how these posts are frowned upon.
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Actually if he knew those posts are frowned upon he wouldn't make them regardless of alignment. Huh.
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On December 10 2013 19:48 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 19:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 19:41 Holyflare wrote:
I'm not sure I follow you in regards to pushing "scum agendas". It's quite simple for a person to not do anything other than their normal town play as scum on day 1. Why would scum be pushing "agendas" so brazenly? The only reason they would need to conform to some agenda would be to get votes off of a person if it was their scum buddy - in this case - it would be off of cora who he is attacking. If he's not pushing any agenda then there is nothing in his posts that prove he's scum or not. The point is to prove someone is scum, not prove that they're bad. Xatalos would be pushing for a scum agenda by causing chaos, creating multiple targets or securing a mislynch. Corazon only mentioned he could be inactive later, and he's played enough games to know how these posts are frowned upon. You don't think Mafia's primary agenda is to survive? Creating an excuse at the start of the game after roles are sent out which explains away the common drop in activity that many experience when playing scums fit's that agenda perfectly.
I didn't think scum would be that blatant about it given that first posts like these often result in pressure. I just realized that there's no town reason for it either if they know that. I feel pretty silly now.
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On December 10 2013 19:53 Holyflare wrote:
Dat backtracking
I hunt scum based on finding scum reasoning. I didn't find it with Cora, but I did find it with Xata. Came onto new insights after being questioned. Any other questions?
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On December 10 2013 19:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So Artanis how is Xatalos pushing scum agenda if you take accont into what i said about him regarding how he plays as town? Why can't he just be eager to start the discussion and gather information?
I'm not familiar with Xatalos' meta, or don't remember. I don't feel like a scattershot aids town, and I feel it serves a scum agenda so I pursued. Yes, it's possible he could just be eager to start discussion. Anyone can be town until they flip.
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On December 10 2013 19:57 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 19:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 19:53 Holyflare wrote:
Dat backtracking I hunt scum based on finding scum reasoning. I didn't find it with Cora, but I did find it with Xata. Came onto new insights after being questioned. Any other questions? Every point I made on cora in my filter is fueled by a scum agenda so I see no reason why you would not investigate/discuss it further and then move onto Xatalos instead.
Because Cora's initial post made me think he was unlikely to be scum and skimming through your post I didn't find anything that negated that. I needed to think about the original post again, apparently.
Plutarch, I'll get back to you after breakfast and a shower.
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On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote:
Alright guys, I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active. I will try my best but I won't be spamming up the thread. I'm also going to try and take notes this game because I feel like I play better when I take notes. Plus, it makes me read everything a lot more in-depth.
If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all.
The first paragraph talks about how he'll be inactive during D1, then the second paragraph goes on about how he'll go after inactive players. It's a semi self-contradictory post. Semi, because he only said he'll be inactive during D1 whereas going after inactive players spans the whole game. He clarifies it in his next post.
On December 10 2013 06:13 Corazon wrote:
I sense the fact that you aren't reading my posts 100%. You've already gotten off to a rocky start with me due to your baseless accusation. Make sure it doesn't happen again.
I don't like this post because his post implies he isn't trying to get scumreads. He's saying "you're playing bad, keep playing bad and I'll vote you!", basically. This displays a scum mindset to me.
On December 10 2013 07:15 Corazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:12 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Corazon
I see no problem with the votes. What is your problem with them?
If you want me to contribute thing with which I can later contradict myself, ask me a question. That's what someone that is trying to find scum would do.
What would a scum do? Sorry I can't ask you questions right now, I have to get all of the shit off me that Xatalos threw on me. Sorry. You said that you had a problem with me basing my suspicions off of nothing and I was just reflecting that it was similar to how I was pressured - not based off of much. Now I must go to work.
This post feels very townie to me. He seems genuinely frustrated at the pressure piled upon him, even admitting that his suspicions were based off nothing out of frustration that other people were doing that on him. His Xatalos case is mostly a rehash of what was already said in the thread. It didn't feel like a case attempting to get town cred, but more an attempt to actually push for a Xatalos lynch.
As for Plutarch's interactions with Corazon, it feels to me like Corazon's frustration is genuine. He just wants people to get off his back. Corazon's defense of himself doesn't feel like it would be the optimal defense to make from a scum point of view. I find the tale of frustrated townie more likely, with the post I quoted earlier being the only thing that truly suggests scum. Corazon has no problem being contradictory. His posts aren't carefully constructed, and they feel genuine.
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On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all.
He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time.
2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him)
This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned.
3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam.
Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum.
4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone).
Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie.
There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it.
Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see.
On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon?
I'm smelling some OMGUS here.
1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it.
2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him.
3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now.
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On December 10 2013 22:34 Grackaroni wrote:
Ok then.
##Vote: Raynepelikoneet
Are you scumclaiming?
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On December 10 2013 22:37 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all. He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time. 2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him) This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned. 3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam. Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum. 4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone). Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie. There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it. Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see. On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon? I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now. 1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play... 2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start? 3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense. If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense. ##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Xp]
0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS.
1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum.
2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it.
3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards.
If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that.
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On December 10 2013 22:43 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:34 Grackaroni wrote:
Ok then.
##Vote: Raynepelikoneet Are you scumclaiming? Rayn has a shitty vote (target someone for being dumb), when I explain to him that its shitty he makes no effort to convince me and instead tells other people I am scummy for shutting down his dumb case. I won't be surprised if he is scum and if he is town then he can go lose.
Rayn made a case on purple then commented on recent events whilst continuing to try to bring his initial case under attention. Xatalos has actively tried to push a scum agenda. Even besides Xata there's plenty of people that look much worse than Rayn. He's not getting lynched today so why are you wasting your vote, and why would you be okay with lynching a town Rayn?
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On December 10 2013 22:50 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:37 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all. He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time. 2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him) This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned. 3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam. Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum. 4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone). Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie. There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it. Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see. On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon? I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now. 1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play... 2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start? 3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense. If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense. ##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Xp] 0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards. If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that. Then enlighten me: 1) If my play is a possible scum play, how is it more likely scum than town?
Because your play suggested a carelessness on who actually gets lynched, as long as it isn't you (or presumably your scumbuddies), and were happy to scattershot on everyone.
2) Why did you defend Corazon for grabbing attention (while actually he didn't intend to), yet accused me for doing just that ("creating confusion")?
I've said this a million times. There was no scum agenda behind Corazon's posts. He doesn't give a shit about how he looks and doesn't construct his posts carefully. This in contrast to you. It's not just what, but also how.
3) How is it not a scum agenda to make excuses for lurking in advance and deflecting attention away from himself (like Corazon)?
Because what good does it actually do? Give me a realistic situation in a game where people fall back to "hey I said at the start of the game that I'll be less active" and it having any meaningful affect whatsoever, especially when he followed it up with giving an inclination to lynching inactives himself.
4) How is it not a town agenda to create discussion and pressure aggressively (like me)?
It's good to create discussion and pressure, but the questions should lead somewhere and not antagonize everyone, then try to find a weak target to latch onto as you did with Corazon. It's not the what, it's the how.
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On December 10 2013 23:02 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:50 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:37 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all. He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time. 2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him) This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned. 3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam. Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum. 4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone). Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie. There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it. Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see. On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon? I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now. 1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play... 2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start? 3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense. If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense. ##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Xp] 0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards. If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that. Then enlighten me: 1) If my play is a possible scum play, how is it more likely scum than town? Because your play suggested a carelessness on who actually gets lynched, as long as it isn't you (or presumably your scumbuddies), and were happy to scattershot on everyone. 2) Why did you defend Corazon for grabbing attention (while actually he didn't intend to), yet accused me for doing just that ("creating confusion")? I've said this a million times. There was no scum agenda behind Corazon's posts. He doesn't give a shit about how he looks and doesn't construct his posts carefully. This in contrast to you. It's not just what, but also how. 3) How is it not a scum agenda to make excuses for lurking in advance and deflecting attention away from himself (like Corazon)? Because what good does it actually do? Give me a realistic situation in a game where people fall back to "hey I said at the start of the game that I'll be less active" and it having any meaningful affect whatsoever, especially when he followed it up with giving an inclination to lynching inactives himself. 4) How is it not a town agenda to create discussion and pressure aggressively (like me)? It's good to create discussion and pressure, but the questions should lead somewhere and not antagonize everyone, then try to find a weak target to latch onto as you did with Corazon. It's not the what, it's the how. Are you seriously saying that my posting is crafted while Corazon's isn't?? This bias is incredible. Just look at his first post (it's extremely crafted): Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote:
Alright guys, I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active. I will try my best but I won't be spamming up the thread. I'm also going to try and take notes this game because I feel like I play better when I take notes. Plus, it makes me read everything a lot more in-depth.
If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all.
Are you seriously saying a first post in which he half contradicts himself is crafted? There was no thought to it at all. He just posted whatever was on his mind then left.
Then you can compare it to my general aggro..... You even mention that my posting is "careless" yet you also say that "Corazon's posting is careless - in contrast to you". What the heck........ This just doesn't make sense at all.
If you think I'm trying to find a weak target, do you consider yourself as a weak target?
Your posting is careless in that you don't care who your target is, as long as it isn't you or other scum.
You had to change target because if you kept sticking to Corazon and didn't address me you'd be screwed. You changed target because you saw the opportunity with thread sentiment changing against me, yes.
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I'm gonna step back from posting on Xata since no one seems to be reading it anyway and everything's already been said.
On December 11 2013 01:58 bumatlarge wrote:
Spaghetti man is pretty mafia. I'd lynch him if pandain was here. Kushmasta seems super silly. If you have to (/green) things this early that aren't questions to the host, you are playing badly.
##Vote Pandain
What makes Spaghetti mafia to you?
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I think Grack is too dumb to be scum. No sane scum would try to go after Rayn right now. He's wrong about Xatalos but I like the point on Spaghetticus in that he seems to try to look like he's contributing without contributing. In LXIII I instantly had a rock solid town read on him because he was too paranoid about everyone and mistrusting everything. The post Grack quoted of him shows a completely different approach to the game than he had in LXIII. Instead of being full of uncertainty and paranoia, he assaults Corazon and calls him bad rather than scum. He's being more carefree this game and overall less suspicious. Dun like it.
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On December 11 2013 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't think i am switching my vote off him today.
So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man.
Talk to me about Spaghetticus.
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On December 11 2013 05:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 05:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 11 2013 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't think i am switching my vote off him today. So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man. Talk to me about Spaghetticus. Actually my plan was to convince you guys into voting him but there is still 24h to go on this phase. Spaghetticus looks scummy for being overly defensive when people were just trying to get him into reading the thread and giving out reads. He always found some excuse to comment on something that did not make him go towards telling who is mafia.
Can you tell me exactly what you find suspicious of Grack? Is it that he voted you without pressuring you?
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On December 11 2013 05:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 05:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 11 2013 05:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2013 05:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 11 2013 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't think i am switching my vote off him today. So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man. Talk to me about Spaghetticus. Actually my plan was to convince you guys into voting him but there is still 24h to go on this phase. Spaghetticus looks scummy for being overly defensive when people were just trying to get him into reading the thread and giving out reads. He always found some excuse to comment on something that did not make him go towards telling who is mafia. Can you tell me exactly what you find suspicious of Grack? Is it that he voted you without pressuring you? He hasn't really done anything but this: Show nested quote +The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't know what purpose that serves or how he thinks he is helping the town. By telling me i am not allowed to call out people for shitting on other people because i played bad in another game? Why would someone who is town do that?
After checking his filter I can see where you're coming from. I can see a scum grack, but I also know that grack likes to troll. Picking a fight with you early on seems like a terrible idea as scum, but he skated by due to terrible ideas in LXIII too whilst being scum. I wouldn't oppose a Grack lynch at this point but I'm not convinced on it.
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EPT
