EPTFurther, why does Onegu auto-assume jampi is not scum; yet doesnt comment on the integrity my case.
Even people that suspect me like Scibs acknowledged the merit of the case.
jampi case
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Further, why does Onegu auto-assume jampi is not scum; yet doesnt comment on the integrity my case. Even people that suspect me like Scibs acknowledged the merit of the case. jampi case | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
I didn't notice that at least two of the quote which Onegu claims illustrate Mocsta's changing opinion... are in fact quotes of me. Obviously my opinion is different to Mocsta's... (This may have been brought up already.) The problem with Onegu's cases is that they're so bloated that it's impossible to reply to them and dissect them without making a horrendously large post that nobody's going to read. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
It most certainly does not warrant "claim bby sealz, bby grl". | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
On November 26 2013 06:32 Onegu wrote: my tldr Well, I do like your TL;DR, thing is you are hostile there too. But I will say; the last point about Rayne is scummier to me than the rest. Why push Rayne then vote switch? But we will see. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On November 25 2013 10:39 Onegu wrote: Mocsta hasnt made a real case all game, his reads jump around all game without any reason given or BS. (1) Aside from the slur about a real case; what has jumping reads got to do with being scum? All this is, is identifying poor play and not attributing any effort to divine motive. NOW LOOK AT HIS REASON TO WANT TO LYNCH JAMP. Because jamp tunneled onto Aqua, but when rayn says that mocsta gives a meta reason that is town for jamp. Several have expressed doubts on jampi based on the limited post count. What is your point? Again, you identify me constantly evaluating information and changing my position - yet you make no effort to explain why this is scummy.Uses the words scumslip for cora and scib, and scum claim for me. Then calls out HF for seeing scum slips. Again, why is this scummy. These are purely events that are in my filter.[quote[Also when I make my notes, if its true he can lynch bereft that cycle, doesnt check when he thinks he is out of time, says if I am wrong its not malicious, to he leaves out the most important piece and Im scum for trying to make bereft look bad.[/quote]I dont see what the point is here either. Mocsta did "this"; Mocsta did "that".. but none of what is here is why its scummy, or even what agenda I pushed... if he is asserting that I tried to save a scum Bereft.. well thats an association read at best, thus conjecture... and scum feigning contributions at worst. Is scum scum scum on rayn, then right before lynch switches to its a policy vote, then after lynch lies and says he didnt have rayn as scum but was afraid rayn wouldnt get a lynch through. I disagree. I thougth Rayn was scum at the start of the martyring and over the course of lynch downgraded to a policy lynch. This is clear when I ask if he has been mislynched before. Instead of taking the olive branch, he spat it in my face and wanted to be lynchedIn short: Onegu case is very useless and doesnt state a single reason why I am scummy. One thing that is concerning is his mention of my swap on jampi. Why is this an issue? Does he know what jampi is going to flip - thus making me look bad for calling him town at one point? | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + These are just a few of mocstas scum hunting, yes this is null null apparently. moving on. We also keep getting post like this all through the game, mocsta really like trying to make friends with thrawn According to Corazon thrawn was buddying mocsta. In my opinion they both know the other's town and they're working together. Not seeing this PoV of Onegu at all. I also want to point out this post and a few more that follow it or come right before this post, this is important because this is one of the main reasons why he was fine to policy lynch rayn. Even in this post we have a good town atmosphere but he takes a dig at me WTF. If the atmosphere is so go why does he need to take a dig at me it just doesn't make sense, Im not the type of person to take the bait but if I was he could then say he was ok to policy lynch me because I attacked him. this is pretty rambling, but I think the point is that mocsta took a dig at onegu. This is what mocsta does. Deal with it. That whole thing about "scum slips" and whatever Poorly chosen words at best. Not scum indicative. Here he says Cora's case on Sciberia was bad, but he is town for it. Later he will say the exact opposite for voting Cora. yeah Onegu quoted me here lol, this wasn't mocsta's opinion at all Votes Aqua for Thrawns reason. Sure he gave his own reasons on why Aqua is scum go read them I quoted them, tell me if you think they are legit reasons or not. I thought this was believable from Mocsta at the time, being on the receiving end of that vote. That "quote of the day" thing is the kind of thing town Mocsta votes over. A few posts later from where he calls cora town for his bad case now he cant see a pro town reason for it. Again a quote from me rather than Mocsta Soft defends Rean here. Mocsta raised a quite valid point about my approach to pressuring Rean, not "soft defending" him at all. Mocsta wasn't questioning my read, he was questioning whether I should have let it lie longer in order to gather more evidence. Likes a post from Jamp. So???!??!? Here he unvotes Aqua because he likes how he didnt push me. But somehow he ignores the possibility that we could be scum together. Why because he knows we arent. This unvote reason it terrible. Actually if you read Mocsta's post he DOESN'T like how I didn't push you. Are you even reading Mocsta's posts? But here is also where it gets interesting, He gives town reads for Rayn, Bereft, , Aqua, me, and cora. His scum reads are Sciberia, Rean, and Jamp. Before this he has had rean as a town read, Sciberia as null, and Jamp as he liked his posts. The only reason he gives for these read changes are mine and he doesnt see me doing what I did as scum. And Aqua who he had as scum for a long time and had just unvoted. His reason? Open and Transparent I don't see why mocsta should justify each and every one of his read shifts. Hell, changing his mind about me probably implicitly changed his mind about rean... Suffice it to say his reads made sense to me at the time so I'm not worried. Still no reasons still no reason to post reasons This is the only reason he gives for his scum reads and atually read it. It is mostly meta, and promoting a negative thread attitude, but read his filter he isnt doing that at all, and it is subjective if he is or isnt any way not a reason to call someone scum. I don't see how being "subjective" means Mocsta can't think Sciberbia's scum for that reason. I think Mocsta hadn't fully understood Sciberbia's posting (reflected in his revision to this read later once he had a better idea) but revising his reads does not make mocsta scum. A few posts later his reads change once again. so? reads change. Here is where mocsta says he is ok with a HF lynch, but he gives no reason for it. He then votes rayn because rayn Martyred. HF had done basically nothing, there were no possible reasons other than "no posts" which is obvious. Vote for Rayn was entirely understandable. Now jamp is scum with rayn. And his reason was jamp is holding on to the aqua thing when he let something go before. I have no idea how a few posts before jamp wasmt in your scum reads to scum partners with rayn because he follows up on Aquanim. The reasons mocsta gives for people being scum juat arent real reasons. this one was more "calling jampi out for a scummy attitude" rather than "calling jampi scum" if you understand how mocsta rolls Rayn drops his vote on jamp, mocsta who then has a scum read on jamp and who thinks is scumates with rayn, defends him calling his meta the same as his town meta for tunneling, which is what mocsta called him scum for doing on Aqua. Yes he says hes not 100% certain and it is ok to defend your scum read if you dont believe the reason they are being attacked by someone else, but mocsta called him scum because he was tunneled on Aqua. He gives meta reasons why he could be town for the same thing mocsta called him scum for. Entirely consistent with my own read on jampi at the time He shows his lynch list here again. Rean we have no idea what, HF for no idea why, and Rayn. And I dont understand why he asks cora the whole thing about staying by his scum read or lynching for info Pretty sure I understood why he wanted Rean at the time, HF for lurking, and Rayn for obvious reasons This is telling, he is ok to lynch bereft this cycle if what I say is true. But more importantly look what he says to thrawn when thrawn talks about looking to see if it is a town rayn. He isnt set if rayn is town or scum, just asking him questions while thinking about motive, but rayn still needs lynched, this just isnt something a townie says. This was something at least two townies said. Now before he even checks my facts, he gives big town points to bereft. So? If bereft did something townie is there a reason why Mocsta shouldn't observe that? I dont understand the point of this post, obviously refuseing to believe doesnt make it true, I was sleeping. Amd I really dont like people calling out other people who cant be here around deadline, it happens deal with it. irrelevant to mocsta's alignment. This is where he digs up the bereft things but conviently leaves out the post that links this all together. And now since I am misrepresenting bereft I am scum. I think you were entirely misrepresenting Bereft since I think Bereft's town and that Mocsta's position was at least understandable. I think some quotes are missing from the case here but whatever. Here is where he calls for policy, the same thing I pointed out with bereft, you are gunho on rayn is scum rayn is scum vote the scum, then all of a sudden you hide behind policy? Why do you feel you need to do this? The reason to say when rayn flips town, see im not sorry it was policy. No. Nonononono. He asked SCIBERBIA to policy lynch Rayn. Sciberbia didn't think rayn was scum, so if scib was to vote rayn it would HAVE to be for policy. Nothing wrong with this at all. The part he fails to mention is his reads on those players change, and he never explains those reads. Reads DO change, and he's not obliged to explain all of them all of the time whenever he says them. Again I have to ask what's your point? More town reads, but now I am scum, and I fanned the flames. Now I wasnt around so what flames did I fan? I dont understand this. He is making shit up for me to look bad that is what is going on. I don't know what mocsta was going on about here but sometimes he does run off on silly tangents as town. More read changes this time me and HF are scum. No reason on HF other than in a previous post I cant believe HF believes what he is writeing. And he compares something rean did in this game, to something I did in a different game to make rean look scummy. How can he believe what he is writeing? Still no reason needed on HF, and drawing analogies is perfectly fine. Look he calls out HF here for being like rayn and saying scumslip. Its stupid play. I direct you to the first post I put in my meat and potatoes part and open the spoiler and what do you see? Thats right mocsta saying cora and scib scumslipped. And rayn flipped town so calling out HF for this is so scummy, maybe he forgot he did it or thought people wouldnt see because hespoiled it, but I saw, I found it. this is just bullshit. 1) Mocsta forgot he did it before because it was UNIMPORTANT 2) rayn is hardly a model town player, playing like him is in fact stupid as town and desirable as scum 3) ..this is just ridiculous I'm out of words Oh yes this post, my favorite. JJD is still town. Bereft he doesnt know, but bereft did the same thing mocsta did the same thing with rany is scum, rayn is scum, its a policy lynch. And me ONEGU IS SCUM turned into onegu provided the missing piece on bereft but that is null because of formatting, into slight town read, with no explination at all... And then how in the hell did I ask him for forgivness? It hurts my head. Lynch mocsta please he is scum. Mocsta didn't give a town read on onegu in this post at all. Onegu again didn't understand Mocsta's post. (the grammar was a little frayed so a failure to understand is forgivable) Now he votes Jamp who was out of his scum team only a few posts ago, and his reasoning? There are scum in the actives but they can be figured out, and his tunnel on aqua, but when rayn voted him he provided meta defense this is town meta and that that wasnt enough to warrwnt a vote. jampidampi vote is fine, pressure Now he says he didnt think rayn was scum it was all policy, nope thats a lie called him scum all the way up then last few minutes said policy. doesn't actually contradict in any way the words mocsta used Please show me these reasons and the numerous times please can't be assed researching this Now I am full town yay!!! what's your point No more Jamp, no to take sciberia from his town pile into his vote. And check out these awesome reasons bad case (subjective) defended the guy who flipped town, and defending the person his scum read made a case on. Such scummy reasons not sure why Im not voteing for scib. again pressure, again fine Omg he goes from sciberia who was a town read as his vote, to JJD who was a town read and check out these reasons he delurked and thats it. Also now I went from town to he could vote me, and rean still not sure why he wants to vote rean since day 1... he's changing his mind in similar ways to what I was thinking day 2, not scummy Two posts later, HF is the best lych again what I was thinking Now he believes the doc claim.... AGAIN what I was thinking. exactly, in fact Makes a case on JJD and then this. suspicion of JJD was justified tl;dr Onegu has nothing on Mocsta and apparently didn't even read some of the posts he quoted. Extremely confirmation-biased. That being said I can see how Onegu might think some of this considering he wasn't in the thread at the time. It's much easier to read Mocsta when you're watching his play evolve with the thread, rather than looking at it afterwards. An observation of Mocsta's playstyle: Mocsta tends to post his knee-jerk reactions to the thread a lot. These are not necessarily consistent with his overall reads; but if he sees a scummy person post a towny post or a towny person post a scummy post Mocsta will typically call him out. Therefore, while when you look back at his filter it may appear somewhat contradictory, my feeling of what Mocsta's positions have actually been throughout this game (as opposed to trying to piece his positions together in retrospect) give me a town read on him. There Onegu, I read your case and I'm not impressed. (okay I see the mention of the quotes of me at the end, I remember seeing them mentioned at some point. Still... blleeeggg. Can you please work on consolidating your cases in the future) | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On November 26 2013 09:11 Alakaslam wrote: Well, I do like your TL;DR, thing is you are hostile there too. But I will say; the last point about Rayne is scummier to me than the rest. Why push Rayne then vote switch? But we will see. ^^ Lol /dunked I wish i asked why you liked it before I posted my response. Cos this post is bad. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
On November 26 2013 09:21 Mocsta wrote: ^^ Lol /dunked I wish i asked why you liked it before I posted my response. Cos this post is bad. Frankly, it's what I get for not reading the thread but instead trying to start forming reads based on other people's cases. Yeah I'm dunked, whatever that means. Only recently come across it, is this a meme? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
We came to the same conclusion of Onegu posts; however, he didn't give just cheap reasons using scum knowledge. Like ohh this is a bullshit reason. hes back it all up with what I remember of the thread. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
On November 26 2013 09:21 Mocsta wrote: ^^ Lol /dunked I wish i asked why you liked it before I posted my response. Cos this post is bad. Oh I see what you are asking. I liked *the fact he brought forward* his TL;dr. I proceeded to say the only scummy thing there wa the Rayne vote switch which you deny anyway so... How muh do I actually like it XD | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
*VERY* important question. How much of the thread have you read.. i.e.. what cycle are you up to? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Have you played scum before? TL Database only has you listed for 2 games Assassin In The Palace Town Bodyguard Lynched Day 2 Newbie Mini Mafia XLVII Town Doctor Endgamed Day 0 Im confident that you have played more than this? | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
First of all: On November 26 2013 06:25 Onegu wrote: Ok first look at the bolded part. Im not going to make a case and vote because people only skim them and read them fully only when they think I am scum. How is this a townies mindset? He is worried about people makeing a case on him. This does not come from someone townie. Now look at the underlined part, there is no reason to make a case this early as they never stick. What out giveing someone pressure and makeing them answer questions with a early case and getting a read on them. Cora answer me this what is really so bad with cases and votes in the first few hours of day one? This is the first example of him fabricating evidence. He mentions multiple times how I said that I did not like cases within the first two hours of the game. This is 100% lie. I clearly stated that I only did not like votes 2 hours into the game. I said absolutely nothing about cases in that post. Why does he come to the conclusion that I don't like cases either? He is trying to turn the facts against me to form a case against me. This is a super scummy thing to do. Then, he changes his attack to "Corazon does not like votes at all". Pretty much self-explanatory here. Why does he change his point of attack? He knows that I caught him lying so he tries to change his interpretation on the fly and continue to pressure me. This isn't a scum-hunting technique, this is a technique where he is desperate to find something scummy about me so he cuts all of the lies out until he can find something scummy. Lastly, he decides to continue to spring his "trap" even though it's pretty obvious his bait is completely phony. His version of the story: I make the post about not wanting to vote two hours into the game at exactly two hours into the game. Then I make the vote on Aqua 16 minutes later (which means that I would have contradicted myself in 2 straight posts). What actually is the truth: I made the post about not wanting to vote two hours into the game 11 hours into the game. I then vote Aqua 11 hours and 16 minutes. The proof for this is in the thread. I showed him the timestamp for the beginning of the game and I compared it to the post that he quoted. 11 hours and 16 minutes. What does Onegu then do? He knows he is caught in a really bad situation, so he just pretends that I never completely stomped his case and peaces out. How is that anything close to a townie response? Onegu needs to be the lynch tomorrow. He told three lies in a 15 minute span and if you let him survive past D3 then this town deserves to lose. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On November 26 2013 09:35 Mocsta wrote: Alakaslam *VERY* important question. How much of the thread have you read.. i.e.. what cycle are you up to? Slam, where are you bbygrl? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On November 26 2013 09:42 Aquanim wrote: @Mocsta I'd leave this for Bereft but there's only two hours till deadline so time may be of the essence. Check White Flag Mafia. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=432880&user=Bereft&view=all I havent cross-referenced to this game (yet) But I am inclined to lean town from that White Flag filter. Skimming through in (like a 2min skim) Its immediately noticeable that scum Bereft isnt confident in his pushes. Hes subconsciously downplaying all his votes giving rambling reasons at the start or "putting it down" This game I remember him being more assertive and direct. If there is only 1 tunneled townie between {Onegu, Bereft} I would bet my left nut that it is Bereft. Having said that, i dont know if there is only 1 tunneled townie, the point was to illustrate i think Bereft has more convinction behind his read.. Heck, he laid down a vote once he was suspicious of me (unlike Onegu) | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Factually I agree with the comments you make. They are highly suspicious. The question is whether his biases are confirmation-based; or malicious. Considering the quality of his "cases" against myself (already debunked in a de ja vu moment); and his immediate change in opinion regarding you - its read is quickly shifting towards scum vs tunneled town. Having said that, I still think jampidampi is a better lynch. There is no risk of confirmation bias - it has been clearly identified he is pushing a scum agenda + Onegu has made a point to say I am scummy for calling jampi town (yet does not comment on his opinion of jampi). There are other instances in the game where I have back-pedaled reads; but Onegu specifically mentions this one. I think that if jampidampi/Chezinu *is* scum --> Onegu certainly becomes scum vs tunneled town. Hence why i think jampi is a better information lynch. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On November 21 2013 23:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: ... So yeah, i am gonna vote for Onegu or Bereft. Aquanim could be town, but Rean is a mislynch. Go for it if you want but i am gonna lynch thrawn on D2 if you lynch Rean because thrawn is spewing bullshit and he knows better than this. Vote stands on Bereft, will be swithching to Onegu, not onto anyone else. On November 21 2013 23:16 jampidampi wrote: Could you provide some reasonings for this? This is a weird post: To remphasise the specifics of the question Rayn: (Rean is a mislynch) jampidampi: (Could you provide some reasonings for this?) Consider: (A) JD vote is on Aquanim (B) JD has suggested he could jump ship to Rean. (C) JD vote stays on Aquanim, even when Rean hits up to 5 votes. This quote just seems written as an observer and it out of place given A,B,C (1) Why doesn't he care Rayn thinks Aqua is town. (2) Why is it important to query why he thinks Rean is a mislynch --> given that his vote isn't there Considering the post 1 minute before this was: On November 21 2013 23:15 jampidampi wrote: <What do you think of Rean> Scummy, but not as scummy as Aqua. My best assumption is that this is a distancing post. On November 21 2013 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact. On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote: How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town. On November 21 2013 23:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because townies don't have to make shit up. I am not saying it makes him town but it makes him more town than a guy who makes shit up intead of admitting they were wrong. On November 21 2013 23:27 jampidampi wrote: Is there something else that makes you think Rean is town? Calling someone a misslynch is to me a clear indication that you though there was a high chance that he would flip town. Again, this is so spoken so calmly. He's querying Rayns read on Rean: yet never votes Rean *even when I am hammering the thread for consolidation* Now we already know he thinks Rayn is town due to the Nuclear mafia comment. So why is he probing his town read on *their* read on Rean? You would conclude that jampidampi is suspicious of Rean *AND NOT* Aqua -- as rayn also said aqua is town. However, as we already know, JD vote remains on Aqua the whole again. I think this is a strong re enforcing point to my original case on JD. I also think it makes Rean look very bad as well. (Now off to check Reans posts on JD) | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Rean has 1 interaction with JD; and it is *before* JD calls him scum. I left what I wrote before for posterity + Show Spoiler + Rean One thing I find odd about Rean is that JD insinuates he is scum here: On November 21 2013 23:09 jampidampi wrote: Rean That is like saying Scarlett is bad when compared to Jaedong. Doesn't explain how "held back" is the phrase that came to your mind when thinking about Sciberbias early play. Hasn't scumhunted very much. Might consolidate onto him. Yet his *SOLE* interaction with jampidampi is this: On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote: That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean. Its a concern because of how he treats Sciberbia as follows: On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote: Some other things I really want to adress: Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia. What we see here is that he calls out Sciberbia for having a scum read on him and follows with a discredit. What confounds matters is that this response to Sciberbia and the response to jampidampi above ARE IN THE SAME POST ! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=17#326 | ||
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