EPTNewbie Mini Mafia LI
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
| ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
| ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
| ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 06 2014 09:59 Balla24 wrote: Playing IRL with friends is going to be a lot of different than this game. Just saying. Why do you think my "accusations" are random? I didn't call you out for random accusations, I was referring to being very vocal and trying to take control right at the start, something the bad guys tend to do, in my experience. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
A mafia putting his name out there this early is a bad plan if enough people jump on the bandwagon. I'm conflicted, all TheChyz has done is create confusion. If enough people get off the bandwagon and he turns out to be a mafia, then he's won and the risk he took with putting his name out there would be totally worth it. Whether or not it's true that TheChyz was telling the truth about the whole act like a scum thing, all it's really done is create confusion among the town. ##Vote: TheChyz | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
About the random accusation thing, a bunch of people started ##voting random people. It's my first time playing this so I'm assuming doing that in the thread that early in the game just seems really random to me when there isn't much information to go on. I assume that by ##voting that they are serious with those accusations, so excuse me if doing that randomly in the thread is something that's very common and isn't meant to be taken 100% serious. Also, on Day_Walker he seems to have good intentions.Calling out TheChyz as the only possible scum on the list seems like a bandwagon hop to me but TheChyz has been suspicious so it's something I agree with. His read on me I find is a bit unnecessary and does not really prove that I am a townie. I'm sure everyone playing this game is not afraid to disagree and standing up for yourself is something everyone does. He might just be including me on the list because I've posted a bit but his reasoning behind me as a townie really has no foundation. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 06 2014 15:30 JonnyLaw wrote: Excuses, bandwagoning and self doubt in one line. I'm down to lynch Asuna or OWB at this point. Dragoon and Chyz read more as if they're trying but misguided. That's enough of a reason to lynch Asuna? I don't see that as good enough to suspect Asuna of being mafia, unless you know more than what you've said there. Those 3 things you listed there is just a sign of an inexperienced player, it has nothing to do with being a scum. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 06 2014 15:56 TheChyz wrote: So Dragoon, it seems like you don't think Asuna should be a possible lynch target. Why is that so? Looking at the filter, nothing about it indicates that Asuna is mafia. I guess bandwagoning might be a bit of a tell but it's something that townies can be prone to as well. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
/notserious | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 07 2014 01:36 Balla24 wrote: He's saying "unless you know more than what you've said there" in regards to lynching Asuna... If jonny was mafia how would he know more about a reason to lynch Asuna at this point? I'd like you to explain that theDragoon. I said that because his reasoning to lynch Asuna was basically due to Asuna's inexperience, which I think is not a good enough reason to be lynched when there are a lot more suspicious people out there. I don't know if Jonny knows more about Asuna, I only thought that because I was not buying his reason to lynch Asuna. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
##Unvote TheChyz @TheChyz I also find it a bit odd that derrida doesn't think you are suspicious. If he was mafia, then jumping on TheChyz bandwagon would be the easiest thing to do... | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 07 2014 03:41 Balla24 wrote: @Dragoon Yeah but why or HOW would scum have any extra knowledge about Asuna, besides Asuna being scum with them? Are you suggesting that Jonnylaw might be preparing for a buss? Are you saying you think JonnyLaw has a blue read on Asuna (Be very careful answering this question)? Like I said in my previous post, I don't know whether or not he has extra knowledge on Asuna, I just don't buy his reason to lynch Asuna. If his reason to lynch Asuna isn't solid, then why would he choose to lynch Asuna? I don't know what a buss is, sorry. I'm not saying JonnyLaw has a blue read on Asuna. If he did, then why would he want to lynch Asuna? | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
To your last sentence: Because a scum would want to kill blues. Yea... I know. If I'm questioning his decision to lynch Asuna with me thinking Jonny had a blue read. Then what am I saying here? If I don't think Jonny had a blue read, then what am I saying about him? Anyways, since this isn't going anywhere.. why did you dodge the "top 2 scum" earlier? Because at that point I wasn't sure who my top 2 was, even though I did vote TheChyz earlier, but a lot has happened since that post. Also, I wanted to call out the two who haven't posted anything. You've been implying that you think Jonny is scum, yet you very seemingly call him town here and don't even consider it from a scum perspective. I never implied Jonny is scum or Asuna was townie. I defended Asuna because I did not like Jonny's reason to lynch him. It does not mean I trust Asuna nor does it mean Jonny is a scum. @Derrida: TheChyz has basically painted a target on his back and a lot of people have jumped on him, including myself. Why would you put your trust into him so easily? Even TheChyz himself thought it was a bit weird for you to think that way. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
If you're going to call someone out for not having good reasons to lynch someone, then you need to provide a counter... I like to think innocent until proven guilty, not the Phoenix Wright way of guilty until proven innocent AND you find who's guilty. How you prefer to play this game isn't always how other people will play the game. I'm not good enough at this game to get scum reads from forum posts. If you REALLY want me to give my top 2 most suspicious people are: Day_Walker: If I don't buy his town read on me, why should I believe his other reads. I've got the most votes on me right now and I want to see if Day_Walker still thinks I'm a townie. suki: "Okay then, lets get back to scumhunting :D". A bit too eager to go scumhunting there, don't ya think? Not really a good reason to call him mafia. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 07 2014 05:27 onlywonderboy wrote: I'm not familiar with the term pocketing. I didn't realize he was joking so I defended you. We've played with some confrontational players in these last few newb games so I thought he was just being super aggro. I'm not comfortable with a Derrida lynch Day 1 just yet. I think his inexperience is showing more than his scumminess. He was gone for a large portion of the day and was trying to make up for his inactivity by posting a lot of information. Unfortunately it's really easy to sheep when there has already been so much discussion prior to posting. Although now that I refresh the page I see that the discussion has sort of shifted away from Derrida. My main scum reads at the moment are Dragoon and Day_Walker. They seem to be interacting a decent amount, which isn't inherently scummy, but they go out of there way to distance themselves from each other. Dragoon says "For the record, I want to make it clear that I never said I completely trust Day_Walker," Then Day_Walker says: I understand wanting to get out ahead of these accusations, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it simply because he pushed Dragoon slightly. These just seem like they are trying to distance themselves early so if either if them go down we don't suspect them as a scum pair. You've got the timeline wrong, he posted that before I posted mine. It does look suspicious, given the way you skewed the timeline of those posts. I also wanted to clarify things with that post because people were putting words in my mouth without reading the entirety of that post. Because of falsifying evidence and trying to frame me ##Vote:onlywonderboy | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 07 2014 05:49 onlywonderboy wrote: I did get the timeline wrong, but that would be a pretty shitty tactic for me to use in order to "frame" someone considering how easy that would be to check. I was sorting through a lot of information and messed up the order. I still think my point stand where you guys are trying to distance yourself. It's a fair point but I was being accused of "trusting" Day_walker when in fact I have never indicated such a thing. From my first post about his read on me I already had doubts. Read it again: Also, on Day_Walker he seems to have good intentions.Calling out TheChyz as the only possible scum on the list seems like a bandwagon hop to me but TheChyz has been suspicious so it's something I agree with. His read on me I find is a bit unnecessary and does not really prove that I am a townie. I'm sure everyone playing this game is not afraid to disagree and standing up for yourself is something everyone does. He might just be including me on the list because I've posted a bit but his reasoning behind me as a townie really has no foundation. I can't believe I have to post this twice. But nowhere in that post do I indicate my trust in Day_Walker other than the part where we agree with TheChyz being suspicious, then again so have other people at that point. I immediately discredit his read on me as a townie. What does that say about my opinion of him? Read the bold part. Do you really think I trust someone, if I can't even trust his read on me being a townie? For a bunch of people intent on reading every little thing in a post, you guys all seem to overlook that part. Also, Balla24, you're rising up my suspicions list with the immediate jump on lynching me and thinking you guys caught 2 scum with me and Day_walker. <-- I know this looks suspicious as hell but I want to clear my name. Day_Walker may very well be scum and I've hinted at that right from the beginning when asked what I thought of Day_Walker's read on me. So the theory of me trying to distance myself from him really has no ground to stand on. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
He also gave onlywonderboy an orange alert level for being afk, which I think is a really dumb reason. He also gave sidesprang an alert level of red for not really posting anything. From that he looks like he's going after people who don't post much, I don't really agree with that, unless he did that to make them post more. I can't say if he's a townie or mafia but he's pretty low on my suspicious rating. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
wow, some really good reads by this guy. Certainly gave me a lot of insight and I can clearly follow his line of thinking and argumentation, no bullshit so far. Still, I might be susceptible to manipulation due to my inexperience I'm putting Derrida higher up on my suspicious people list. Your concerns about Derrida giving certain people a green light easily are definitely valid. This is mafia, nobody should ever be green lit so easily, especially after one post. I myself don't have anyone green lit. I admit it looks like I'm changing stances rather quickly but that's what happens when you read everything too quickly. I'm definitely getting more familiar with the game though. /offtopic: I know this is a newbie game but a lot of people here seem to have a lot of experience playing the game. JonnyLaw in particular seems to hate the "I'm new to this" type of post. And I think the more experienced players here are looking far too deep into what some of the newer players are posting. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 07 2014 06:55 onlywonderboy wrote: I know it's not the answer you want to hear, but that's the only real pair that stood out to me. I didn't start hunting with the goal of finding pairs, that one just sort of happened. I'm glad you think I'm capable of doing good analysis, but nothing else really stood out to me (or at least nothing that hadn't already been said). Don't think I didn't take my time to formulate my analysis on Day_Walker and Dragoon though What do you think of Derrida giving Day_Walker the green light and have COMPLETE TRUST in him? You label Day_Walker and I as scum because I "seemingly trusted and turned by back on him so we can distance ourselves". I don't think you're reading my posts at all since I have never trusted Day_Walker ONCE. I'll know when you start reading my posts when you remove that vote on me. I still want you to prove the part where I gave my trust in Day_Walker and pinpoint the exact moment where I try to "distance myself" from him. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 07 2014 07:02 Balla24 wrote: It's what this game is all about. The more experienced players will quickly want to get rid of the "noob card" for people to play, because it's annoying to think about. I mean just try it lol... whenever somebody says "well i'm new to this so i'm not sure about: xxxxx" like what are you supposed to think? "Dang this guy's new so i better cut him some slack for having no confidence...?" No we can't do that... because that allows mafia players to play that card... Basically, it's similar to lists, similar to lurking, similar to using RL excuses: The noob card is not something you want to play as town BECAUSE it sets a standard for mafia to be able to use it and then from there it's circular logic. Just nip it in the butt. I think it's something to consider, though. A noob should be making mistakes all over the place, and mistakes shouldn't be the reason they get lynched. I still don't like how JonnyLaw wanted to lynch Asuna because of inexperience when there are far bigger threats out there. You will all see when I get lynched tomorrow that this "distancing theory" is completely dumbfounded and you will all be back to square one. It does allow mafia to play that card and makes its a lot harder for town to play but an experienced player should be able to tell if someone is telling the truth about the noob card or if they are bluffing because the noob will make a lot more mistakes. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 07 2014 07:11 Balla24 wrote: Eh, you are misjudging us if you think we're experienced players... we are just experienced with noob games  But rest assured, if you're new we are and SHOULD be taking it into account... but explicitly stating "I AM NEW PLS DONT LYNCH ME MY READS MIGHT BE BAD" is NOT helpful whatsoever. Catch my drift? /offtopic:Yea i get it. I just felt like a lot of people look into my posts too much thinking there's some sort of link or slip or whatever when in reality i just don't know WTF I'm doing. /ontopic: I'm gonna ##Unvote onlywonderboy and ##Vote theDragoon. There's no way to get out of this mess, you're all really looking at the wrong guy. I guess without me fucking things up for the town, you'd be better off but this is going to be 2 down for mafia after the first night. I have to head out, I'll be on later. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
| ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
@JonnyLaw Thanks for putting that out of context. In that post, if you read it again, I go over the possibility of TheChyz being a townie and a mafia. I didn't call him a townie then voted for him. I ran through both scenarios in the post. If you want to use that as being contradictory, at least quote the whole post. I voted for him there because he caused confusion at that time. By that logic, you should vote for me for the confusion I have created. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723¤tpage=16#313 I don't understand why he keeps contradicting himself in the same sentence. daywlker's bandwagoning but he likes it? I never said I liked his decision to jump on TheChyz bandwagon, I did myself. It was just a common thing we agreed with, and we weren't the only ones to jump on that bandwagon. Then talks about my pressure on Asuna and dismisses it completely without reason. I'm not familiar with this format so I didn't know you were just pressuring Asuna. To me it looked like you just decided to lynch him for reasons I did not agree with. Excuses, bandwagoning and self doubt in one line. I'm down to lynch Asuna or OWB at this point. From that, your reason to lynch Asuna was basically due to his inexperience. Not a good enough reason to warrant being lynched. It was also something I can relate with as I myself am prone to making excuses, bandwagoning and having self doubt, if I don't want to be lynched because I have those traits, I certainly don't want others to be as well. Fuck, this could all be bad play is my biggest issue with lynching dragoon. You're goddamn right. @Derrida Voting for me without any explanation? You flagged me as yellow earlier and even brought up the possibility of me being a bad player then going straight for me because everyone else is. I get trying to get rid of bad players but the goal of the game is to eliminate mafia through lynching or character powers. @BigDad You claim that I put trust in Day_Walker and that's how I got pretty high up on your suspicions list. But I've said many times already I never outright claimed that I trusted Day_Walker, I'm not going to repeat it again here. @Suki theDragoon's knee jerk reaction to vote OWB because of an incorrect timeline. - Attacking his attacker for a slight inconsistency. I reacted to that inconsistency because he was trying to frame his argument based on the fact that I "changed my mind" about Day_Walker. He said something along the lines of me saying I changed my mind THEN... Day_Walker mentioned something. The only reason why I even mentioned Day_Walker at all is because Balla24 asked me what I thought, then people started putting words in my mouth saying I trusted him. His flip-flopping on Derrida, first saying his suspicion is 'low' and then on his very next post saying Derrida is higher up. New information pops up, you reread things you change your opinions. How's that scummy at all? Suki to me sounds like a scum trying to take advantage of this situation, to get a townie a guaranteed lynch. there's no way he's not mafia here. Everyone watch out for Suki, her true nature as a scum will be revealed when I get flipped. @sidesprang I know you don't like self voting, but I felt like my vote doesn't matter given the amount of votes I had on me at the time. I was heading out to class at the time so I rushed my post a bit and I guess got a little hot headed at the votes turning to me. I only voted myself because I felt like my vote is useless, given how many votes I had on me. From the posts I read from when I was away, I'll have to warn the town about Suki, BigDad, Derrida and possibly Day_Walker (my so called scumbuddy). This is all I'll post for now I'm about to eat dinner and shower. I'll be back on an hour or so. Also, do I get a last word before I get lynched? | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 07 2014 15:33 sidesprang wrote: @theDragoon Who would you vote for now and why ? Also, why did you change your mind and wanted to defend yourself afterall ? I felt like I needed to, as simple as that. I just wanted to get something out before I die. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
Suki called me out for a "scum slip" because I said something about Jonny hiding information. I don't think that's a good basis to put me under the scope. This game is about information, everything needs to be laid out there. Jonny himself claimed that he wasn't willing to reveal info for fear that mafia might use it to adapt their strategy, so why didn't Suki suspect him of that? The reason why I mentioned Jonny hiding something is because I did not understand his decision to lynch Asuna, because to me, his reason against Asuna was because he was inexperienced and it didn't make sense to me to lynch someone because of that. Also, she said this: 'TheChyz's play is confusing so I'm voting for him'. I did not say that directly, I was talking about how TheChyz's play created confusion among the town, which is something that mafia would want, hence my initial vote on him. I know I wasn't alone being confused with TheChyz's move. Then later on her filter she immediately jumps on the lynch theDragoon bandwagon. Before this she was not entirely sure of my alignment, only thought I was suspicious, claiming things like "scum slip" or "voted because confused". The reason why she votes me right away is she saw the opportunity to lynch an innocent town member. I believed I covered a lot about why I think she's scum in my "defense post". But I think the biggest tell on her being mafia is her absolute certainty of me being mafia. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
So the main reason why I think he's scum is because he just jumped on me, providing no reason then leaving the game to sleep. He doesn't give us time to question his decision. I went from mild suspicions to LYNCH HIM. That in itself is shady as hell and I certainly don't trust someone who jumps the bandwagon without providing a reason at all. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
You know why me and Day_Walker became defensive about BigDad's accusations? Because he was putting words in my mouth. Saying I trusted DW, I have mentioned this multiple times. I have NEVER trusted Day_Walker, and I have never mentioned anything about trusting him, go look at my other posts. Regarding:Day_Walker The evidence against Dragoon looked very different to me than the rest of town. When people were talking about me and Dragoon as scum buddies, and then accusing us of trying to distance ourselves, I was the only townie who could read those posts and say "lol no". When Dragoon was defending himself against these accusation, I was the only townie who could read those posts and say "yup, this is 100% a guy defending himself against some false accusations". I think this in turn affected the weight I gave to other accusations against him. For example, I think most other people saw his snap OWB vote as scummy. Since I knew that OWB's scum-buddy accusation was false, I thought "well, I can't really tell if this is a frustrated townie lashing out or a cornered scum lashing out". The way Town has interacted with Dragoon over the last day has made it difficult for me to get a good read on him, because I'm not sure how to tell the difference between frustrated townie and cornered scum. Before reading that post I was was a bit suspicious of Day_Walker, and this post could very well be mafia play but it is exactly how I was thinking. I know I'm not scum but I'm not sure if Day_Walker is but him having the same thought process as me when we got paired as "scum buddies" makes me lean towards him being a townie. If I flip town, DW will look innocent, but if I flip red then DW will look like he was trying to save me. It doesn't make sense for him to try to save me at this point because he is only jeopardizing his credibility if I do end up red. If we are both mafia, he should be throwing me under the bus at this point instead of trying to save me. This is why I think he will end up green. If I get lynched today, which I'm sure will happen, DW's alignment will be even more ambiguous. Regarding: Suki At this point I'm thinking she's town as well. I did accuse her of being mafia because of her being so certain that I was. But the more I read her posts the more it looks like a concerned townie rather than mafia taking advantage of the bandwagon on me. I still don't agree with her accusations of "scum slip" but for now I think he's a townie and I take back my accusation of her being mafia. Regarding: dynarri He did get the ball rolling on me with the help of BigDad's accusation of me trusting Day_Walker. As I mentioned multiple times before, and even debunked that I never placed my trust in Day_Walker. If I recall correctly, dnyarri, onlywonderboy and BigDad were the ones to use the DW and tD are scum buddies card because tD trusted him. They may have conspired together to fabricate that story and that makes them really suspicious. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
| ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
I'm not sure why he turned and started defending himself again, I would not be suprised if he got talked into it by the scum QT. I'm this far down the hole, the least I could do was post stuff to get replies. The town needs something to work with and I thought that would be the best thing I can do to help. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
| ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
On January 08 2014 04:32 TheChyz wrote: Yes Care to explain why that would be a good strategy for mafia? | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
| ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
The more and more I think about it the more I start to doubt the Day_Walker/Dragoon pair That's because there was never a link to begin with. Whoever started that whole scum buddy thing either got a little too excited that they may have found scum or decided to just outright fabricate it because they were mafia and this "link" would help town turn against each other. I know I recently said that I think Day_Walker is town, but I think he would be the better choice to lynch tonight, if you still think me and him are somehow linked. Case 1: I feel like the town would gain more information lynching Day_Walker than me since he is really going out of his way to defend me and even attempting to redirect the lynch votes to another person. If he gets flipped as mafia tonight, then town can be safe to say that I am one as well since he tried so hard to defend me and I'd be lynched day 2. But if he gets flipped as town, I may still be mafia and I would still be the lynch target in day 2 since people rate me so highly on their scum list. Case 2: If I get flipped tonight and revealed as mafia, do you really think Day_Walker would risk defending me right now if he was mafia, with nearly all votes on me? That would pretty much guarantee him as the next lynch target on day 2. But if I flip town, what does that say about Day_Walker? It could still mean he was mafia trying to get town cred (as chinstrap mentioned), or he was a townie with the correct read on me. If you read through the 2 cases I present above, case 2 would be offer the most ambuigity for the town since me flipping as town would still put a question mark above Day_Walker's alignment. Case 1 doesn't have this ambiguity since I will still be the lynch target on day 2. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
| ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
| ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
I can't tell you guys how to think or how to use the information gained from me dying but I want to ask you guys to question your analysis. You will all be wrong in thinking I am scum, some of you, I feel, tried too hard to make something out of nothing. What I'm mostly referring to here is "scum buddy", defending Asuna, and "scum slip". I don't think you should target those who made cases against me because I feel like they were just making something out of nothing. My opinion is probably meaningless at this point but here is my scum ranking from most to least scummy: onlywonderboy, dnyarri, Day_Walker, Balla24, sidesprang, BigDad, Derrida, TheChyz, suki, JonnyLaw, Asuna, chinstrap This is my first game, really sad that I will die so early. I made mistakes which eventually led to my downfall, it doesn't help the fact that people overanalyzed my posts and made something out of nothing. I may seem scummy to some of you, but that's because you are actively looking for scum and trying to find anything you can use to get someone. I hope you reread my filter from a townie perspective and see that I was just really new to this. ggwp, gl town I hope you get it right next time. | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote dnyarri | ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
| ||
|
theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723¤tpage=27#540 YOU SHOULDVE ALL LISTENED TO ME AT THAT POINT! I had the 3 scum in my list at the end! | ||
| ||
