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On October 17 2013 01:47 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 23:03 Bereft wrote:
@Balla - that was purely a timing/availability issue. If I'm home and have time to sit down and write something I will, regardless of day/night phase. might not be the best strategy, but what can you do, time constraints yo. I'm out tonight so not sure if I'll make it home before the night post - but if I do I'll write something.
that being said, what exactly "seems a little different" about my posting this time around? can you expand please? why such a strong read on Sagaz?
my general gut feeling is that only 1 out of the 6 votes on Vonthin is mafia. I would lean towards playerboy i
from this subset. no read on OWB yet - as per last game he has been super quiet. OWB please don't go down that same path again... all just because you played the same way as town doesn't mean you'll get a free pass this time around.
on a phone at work right now... I'll post more thoroughly tonight >< I think I'm quieter this game than last one but that's due to irl responsibilities. Last time I just dug myself a grave by getting super defensive and doing a poor job of explaining myself. As for my vote I was clear upfront I was putting a lot of weight into Suess' analysis since I know he's town and a really smart guy. I agree nyx has a lot of explaining to do. I realize he wanted to follow Odin, but the contradiction of not thinking mitt is mafia but still voting him anyway feels very scummy. Honestly the only person I have a strong read on right now is Odin (town). The initial bandwagon on mitt and changing votes from there was a bit of a clusterfuck so getting a read on these events hasn't been easy.
Apparently I'm not smart enough, given the day's outcome.
Why don't you think July is town? It's not impossible for him to be mafia, but it seems highly unlikely given that he had no reason to vote istandwithmitt over Vonthin.
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On October 17 2013 02:42 istandwithmitt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 01:06 SagaZ wrote:
God damnit mitt, we already went over this, this is not how it works. If you make an accusation you explain your reasoning behind it, you don't make us guess. If you have a problem with any post, point it out, it helps us, or me at least to understand how you think. Pls you dont need to curse. I just want you guys to try & look at things that are scummy rather than getting in big rants about how people don't post enough. ggtemplar is talking about how its a good thing to lynch someone you think is town (hint: it never is) & this is from someone who has been convinced I'm scummy all game. He then justifies that "if I am town" (hint: he has been saying that he thinks I'm scum all game) that I'm still a good lynch. Basically, he's pushing a lynch on someone a lot of people think is town & then preparing for when I flip town but justifying it as a good lynch. Basically, he's going to get a townie lynched but no worries, it was a good thing for a town! I think ggtemplar knows I'm town & is trying to hedge his position for when I flip town. Well, see ya.
Question: GGTeMpLaR posted that in response to a post I made suggesting we vote for SagaZ or July617. If you think GGTeMpLaR was scum, do you think he was trying to deflect the vote away from other scum or do you think he was simply sowing discord?
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For what it's worth I also pushed back playerboy345 for jumping on E00e.
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Also, GGTeMpLaR do us a favor and read all the posts, then respond. Watching you post like this is like watching someone reacting to the bombinb of Pearl Harbor as if it happened today.
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EBWOP: bombing, not bombinb (whatever that is).
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In other news, where the heck is playerboy345? It's practically been a day since he last posted.
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I'm going to be heading out here for a few hours, but I'd like to leave people with a few thoughts.
playerboy345 has not posted at since the night started. This is highly unusual given his usual times of activity. I'd recommend getting him to talk more, should he ever reappear, and scrutinizing him.
While onlywonderboy hasn't posted much, I don't think he's mafia. His posts are terse, but to the point and insightful. He should, however, speak out more. E00e also needs to talk more.
Basically, if you're town you should be chatting away. Mafia is not an armchair game unless you're a spectator.
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Also I'll probably be dead before I return. Best of luck to you all.
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On October 17 2013 12:16 Balla24 wrote:
and why do you think we're in a TTT setup.. it could easily be any other setup..
It needs to be a setup with a Serial Killer, unless we have a very bad Vigilante at work. The only configurations which match are T, TTT, and TTTTT. But it can't be T because we've already lost two Vanilla Townies, and the presence of a Roleblocker makes TTTTT impossible because we know we have at least one C and one M. That leaves TTT.
So our current setup is TTTMC??. That basically means that in addition to our now deceased 1-shot cop there are one or two more special roles. Either two Masons, two 1-shots of various kinds, or a single Cop/Doctor/whatever.
Of the 10 people left alive, four are anti-town and one is me. So from my perspective half of you who are still alive are scum/a Serial Killer.
Whee.
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On October 17 2013 12:35 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 12:16 Balla24 wrote:
and why do you think we're in a TTT setup.. it could easily be any other setup.. It needs to be a setup with a Serial Killer, unless we have a very bad Vigilante at work. The only configurations which match are T, TTT, and TTTTT. But it can't be T because we've already lost two Vanilla Townies, and the presence of a Roleblocker makes TTTTT impossible because we know we have at least one C and one M. That leaves TTT. So our current setup is TTTMC??. That basically means that in addition to our now deceased 1-shot cop there are one or two more special roles. Either two Masons, two 1-shots of various kinds, or a single Cop/Doctor/whatever. Of the 10 people left alive, four are anti-town and one is me. So from my perspective half of you who are still alive are scum/a Serial Killer. Whee.
I've found errors in my previous logic. You can have two Vanilla Townies with a T setup. The single T only represents a single T roll, but doesn't mean there's a single Vanilla Townie.
I still think it's far more likely we're in a TTT setup.
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It makes it very certain there are four non-town players out there. Whether it's T or TTT, there are 3 Mafia and 1 Serial Killer. That means that if you have 6 players you're absolutely sure are town, the other 4 can't be.
The rest of you have an advantage over me in that you know, for certain, who 2 out of the 6 are. If you can get a read on the other four then everything else should fall into place.
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Part of the problem is the mafia could have made either kill. It's more likely they killed Odin, but not impossible they targeted playerboy345.
Now that we know playerboy345 was a 1-shot cop, his overreaction to E00e comes into sharper focus. It didn't occur to me, but that overreaction could have hinted at his role to a more astute observe. It's possible the mafia figured it out and killed him. He also makes a better target than Odin in general, as Odin's prominence made him a more likely target for protection.
The only person who really had a reason to kill playerboy345 otherwise was E00e. He was strangely quiet during the night phase so it's possible, but it's also obvious. We have very little to go off of beyond that if it was the Serial Killer.
Odin is the more likely mafia target because he was a very prominent town. He drove a lot of conversation, though not always in a useful direction. He's also not me. Given that I was the only confirmed town, however town Odin appeared, there was a very high likelihood that a Doctor might interfere with a night kill on me. Odin was a good secondary target.
However, Odin was also an easy Serial Killer target for similar reasons. Odin bumped heads a bit, so there's basically no way for us to find a single thread.
All that said, nyxnyxnyx might have made a next level play. Who'd suspect the guy who blindly followed Odin to murder him!
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On October 17 2013 16:59 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
am i wrong in saying that if we make a mistake and vote out a townie this day phase, then that leaves 5 townies and if a further 2 are killed that night, then it's game over?
If there's a serial killer it's not necessarily game over, more like "go buy lottery tickets". Townies basically pray at that point that the serial killer both votes with them and kills a mafia N3.
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I've done some analysis of the night's kills, and I think it's safe to say that Odin was killed by the Mafia, while playerboy345 was killed by the Serial Killer.
The key to this is the roleblock on Bereft. If you review the previous day's events three people stand out as active, talkative, and inquisitive town players, OdinOfPergo, Bereft, and myself. At first glance I look just as valuable a target as either of them, but that is not the case. I'm the only townie the mafia knows has no special powers. Killing me guarantees that they don't kill a power role. Given how often I repeated my assumption that I wouldn't live another day, it's also likely they feared potential intervention from a doctor.
So the strongest play for the mafia in this situation was to roleblock one of the remaining two and kill the other. The rest is history. Odin is dead, Bereft is outed as a power role, and the serial killer happily offed a cop.
Based on this analysis I believe I have a fairly good read on who is town, who is mafia, and who is the serial killer.
- Bereft is clearly town, and one with a power role. Unfortunately, Bereft is a priority kill for the mafia now.
- istandwithmitt is also clearly town. I understand GGTeMpLaR's reservations, but I still believe his day 1 play was too erratic and attention-grabbing for him to be anything other than town. As a bonus, he's actually done pretty well since.
- July617 is another town. He voted for istandwithmitt just as Bereft and I started pushing to vote for Vonthin. This seemed like a scummy play attempting to deflect votes from Vonthin at the time. If July617 was mafia there'd be no reason for him to draw that kind of attention to himself.
- GGTeMpLaR is also town for similar reasons. He was heavily against the Vonthin vote, and in general posts far more and with far less care than makes sense for a mafia.
- onlywonderboy is our penultimate town. While he hasn't posted as much as I'd like, every single one of his posts has been on point, succinct, and helpful.
- Obviously, I'm the final town. If you think I'm really scum you should run into your panic room and put on a tinfoil hat because Big Brother is watching you.
By basic process of elimination, that means SagaZ, Balla24, nyxnyxnyx, and E00e are scum and/or the serial killer.
- Balla24 has been seen actively questioning Bereft's credentials, while defending SagaZ, and going after playerboy for his pressure on E00e. He's claimed that July was being "careful" with his vote, when voting for istandwithmitt at that point was the opposite of careful. He also uses the OdinOfPergo kill to cast suspicion on both July and nyxnyxnyx, who (if I'm correct) aren't mafia.
- SagaZ has actively been sucking up to the one and only confirmed town, and has generally voted safely. He voted istandwithmitt when it was still in vogue, voted for July617 after I called for it, and voted Vonthin after it was requested. This made his vote record safe. However, he's been on the nyxnyxnyx train with Balla24, and questioned playerboy's fervor in defense of E00e. His suggestion that we look for mafia in the Vonthin vote seems reasonable, except the only mafia in there is him.
- E00e has one of the lightest post records in the game. His accomplishments so far include the cop claim debacle, voting for nyxnyxnyx (seeing a pattern here?), and nothing else.
nyxnyxnyx is obviously the Serial Killer. It doesn't make sense for Balla24 and SagaZ to have been going after him unless they thought he was town. But he isn't town, and isn't mafia, which leaves only one possibility. His posting record is also rivaled only by E00e in terms of usefulness. Who'd suspect the sheep was really a wolf?
Normally I'd suggest we start by lynching nyxnyxnyx, but as he's also been the target of the scum we're better off starting with Balla24 or SagaZ, otherwise it's too easy for them to skate by. So long as we lynch the Serial Killer tomorrow we should still be able to win.
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On October 18 2013 02:29 Balla24 wrote:
I told you why i'm so weary with Bereft. This guy is good, he was good last game too. This is why I have to look at him so carefully. I know he's town now and I already said that, the role block confirms him. It's obvious that mafia thinks Bereft is a power role, but he might not be and they certainly don't know for sure. You shouldn't have called that out.
On E00e. I was the first one to call him out on the "cop claim debacle" after playerboy's death. If you think he's scum then I'm not scum with him and vice versa. If it wasn't for him, playerboy might not have gotten shot last night (I do have some part to play in this, but by the time i got back I think the damage was already done) and we might have a check.
I did not claim july was being careful. You're twisting my words. I was talking about it from the point of view of July being scum, he might not be willing to take a risk that would put him under suspicion on the vote, especially if he felt confident Vonthin was going to get lynched anyways (with two town leaders pushing for him).
On odinofpergo kill. Anybody would draw that conclusion. Onlywonderboy did even. I even said that it could be a kill to draw suspicion on them, leaving that as an option.
Also, how was GGTemplar "heavily against" the Vonthin vote. I don't see that at all, could you quote me some posts from his filter where you get that impression.
Based on the wiki I was working under the bad assumption that you only learn you've been roleblocked if you have a role to block. Apparently that's incorrect and you learn you've been roleblocked regardless. So I may be wrong about Bereft having a power role, as I assumed the roleblock meant they had one.
Pressuring E00e on his kerfuffle with playerboy345 is a weak line of attack with an easy defense (as you both just demonstrated while I was in the middle of writing this). It's effortless for E00e to just say, "playerboy345's the one who overreacted" and his defense is basically complete. In fact, you did it for him. You're not really applying pressure when you're answering your own questions to your satisfaction.
Regarding July:
On October 17 2013 02:10 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 02:06 Seuss wrote:On October 17 2013 01:47 onlywonderboy wrote:On October 16 2013 23:03 Bereft wrote:
@Balla - that was purely a timing/availability issue. If I'm home and have time to sit down and write something I will, regardless of day/night phase. might not be the best strategy, but what can you do, time constraints yo. I'm out tonight so not sure if I'll make it home before the night post - but if I do I'll write something.
that being said, what exactly "seems a little different" about my posting this time around? can you expand please? why such a strong read on Sagaz?
my general gut feeling is that only 1 out of the 6 votes on Vonthin is mafia. I would lean towards playerboy i
from this subset. no read on OWB yet - as per last game he has been super quiet. OWB please don't go down that same path again... all just because you played the same way as town doesn't mean you'll get a free pass this time around.
on a phone at work right now... I'll post more thoroughly tonight >< I think I'm quieter this game than last one but that's due to irl responsibilities. Last time I just dug myself a grave by getting super defensive and doing a poor job of explaining myself. As for my vote I was clear upfront I was putting a lot of weight into Suess' analysis since I know he's town and a really smart guy. I agree nyx has a lot of explaining to do. I realize he wanted to follow Odin, but the contradiction of not thinking mitt is mafia but still voting him anyway feels very scummy. Honestly the only person I have a strong read on right now is Odin (town). The initial bandwagon on mitt and changing votes from there was a bit of a clusterfuck so getting a read on these events hasn't been easy. Apparently I'm not smart enough, given the day's outcome. Why don't you think July is town? It's not impossible for him to be mafia, but it seems highly unlikely given that he had no reason to vote istandwithmitt over Vonthin. It could easily be him being careful with his vote so that nobody would be suspicious of it. Again though, I don't think July is mafia, but you shouldn't clear your suspicion of him just because he didn't switch his vote. Especially no reason to switch since it was clear that Vonthin was going to get lynched anyways. Hell, I did that last game as scum, if you aren't the deciding vote there is no reason to switch.
Note the use of the very word "careful". In fact, "might not be willing to take a risk" means practically the same thing as careful. SagaZ was careful, while he voted for istandwithmitt he made it very clear he was willing to change his vote. July617 wasn't careful, he voted for istandwithmitt expressly against and expressly disagreeing with the decision to lynch Vonthin.
I brought up the OdinOfPergo kill speculation because this is a game of straws. You're rarely going to have one big slip-up to identify scum, it's about patterns. Taken by themselves any one of these things is innocuous, but taken together they paint a picture.
Finally, here are the GGTeMpLaR quotes you requested:
On October 16 2013 08:48 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 17:25 Seuss wrote:On October 15 2013 11:29 Bereft wrote:
also lawl, adding July to that list, just read his post above. July, please give us some reads within the next 12 hours -- that should be enough time for you to "safely and calmly" get your reads together. We don't actually need every last poster giving a full list of reads. In fact, it's a fairly decent way for mafia members to look productive without actually contributing anything useful. The thread is also drawing very quiet, which is good news for the mafia, so I'm going to incite some discussion. At this point I believe istandwithmitt is just an absolutely terrible player/communicator. He's confrontational, dogmatic, egotistical, and generally a pain in the butt, but he's drawn way, way more negative attention to himself than makes sense for mafia. Bereft is right that we should be focusing on finding other targets right now. To that end, I believe the two most likely mafia players are SagaZ and July617. I'll present each case in turn. + Show Spoiler [SagaZ] +While he was the first player to post following the start of the game, he's been a sparse participant since. His first post immediately drew suspicion for a number of reasons. 1. Despite its word count it's actually very light on content. 2. The actual suggestions contained within are highly questionable. Observe: On October 14 2013 11:26 SagaZ wrote:
As a disclaimer early, I think we should all agree on something.
We are all newbies here, so if you fuck up or say something dumb, don't play the "oh sorry, I am new I didn't know". [/color]
[color=green]Seuss is our confirmed town, we should try to organize around him.
For a day 1 lynch, I think lynching some1 innactive is the best way to go.[/color] Having innactive players around just give mafia the opportunity to sit back and do nothing while town runs around screaming at each other.
So give information about yourself if you can, so that others will be able to read you easy.
My stance this early is easy: I will vote for people that post nothing worthy or nothing at all, unless some1 slips. I am also more likely to vote for people that say suspicious stuff and then say "sorry I didn't know I am new" SagaZ spends both the first and last paragraphs primarily rambling about how people shouldn't play the newbie card. If all he really wanted to do was encourage newbies to post, as he later claimed, he could easily have done so with a far more positive tone. He doesn't sound like he's encouraging newbies as much as discouraging them. While he does make two seemingly reasonable suggestions, they are obvious and ultimately counter-productive. As the sole confirmed townie in the game, my lifespan is likely to be short. Rallying around me exclusively would simply set the town up for trouble upon my inevitable death. Similarly, lynching players who'll simply be modkilled does nothing for the town either. So SagaZ' first post discouraged activity and made no useful suggestions. That's enough to arouse suspicion, but not to conclude he is mafia. That brings us to his second post: On October 14 2013 20:11 SagaZ wrote:
Of course I meant lurker lynch, afkers will get modkilled after all. If one guy is not saying anything in the thread or very little, but still turn out to vote for people without giving reasoning... that would be very scum telling to me. I guess it is fairly obvious to everyone, but pointing it out will make them talk whether they want it or not, and that gives information.
I took the opportunity of the first post to basically say "game started, don't hide behind your inexperience and post".
For town to win we need 2 thing:
- Get everyone active
- Organize around our confirmed towny Seuss
@nyxnyxnyx: Care to explain why you trust Odin? Him being so hyper posty makes me nervous but he actually present points for us to discuss on, which creates discussion and is therefore good for town. It is weird to me at least that you come in, decide to side with odin even thought we have a confirmed townie. In this post he claims he meant "lurker" when he said "inactive". However, in his first post he clearly stated that his potential vote targets included those who posted "nothing at all". SagaZ is backpedaling here, and making it seem reasonable by repeating the reasoning that undermined his previous position. He also very carefully drops his excuse for the weird newbie-discouraging rambling at the end of an unrelated paragraph, burying it. "Getting everyone active" is an important step for towns looking to win, but SagaZ doesn't actually have any suggestions on how to do that, and doesn't participate enough himself. He again says everyone should organize around me, also without suggesting how or acknowledging the obvious flaw in the strategy (e.g. I'm a dead man walking). Finally, he ends the post promoting discord. While nyxnyxnyx' decision to trust Odin could have used some additional vetting, at that point Odin was at the nexus of a fairly chaotic argument, and rallying behind his "let's randomly pick someone and put them in the hotseat to get information flowing" idea would have killed a lot of the useless chatter while promoting helpful discussion. Questioning nyxnyxnyx at this point only served to perpetuate the pointless debate, and promote distrust. SagaZ third post was entirely inconsequential, and above analysis. His fourth post at least pretended to have substance: On October 15 2013 05:02 SagaZ wrote:
First impressions: going into this I was feeling most uncomfortable with nyxnyxnyx, blindly following some1 sounds like a pretty bad idea for a town, and especially stating it in the thread sounds more to me like he was trying to get onto OdinOfPergo's good side.
And the I read istandwithmitt's post and I'm like wtf. He voted for me at the beginning and I thought it was alright, aggressive play-style pointing fingers early to get some heat and get the discussion going, but then instead of making use of it he just go silent. And now this switcharoo vote with no explanation and abrasive behavior?
There are a lot of words in this post, but it essentially says nothing. The entire latter half is a rehash of what everyone else had already said about istandwithmitt. The former half mostly repeats his previous misgivings about nyxnyxnyx' decision, adding an extra touch of distrust of both nyx and Odin. No progress towards anything happens over the course of these paragraphs. Finally, there's SagaZ latest post: On October 15 2013 05:20 SagaZ wrote:
I'd like to hear what playerboy345 has to say to Istandwithmitt's accusations; just complete the weird triangle between them 2 and E00e. At this point debating with istandwithmitt was utterly pointless, whoever was doing it. I had said as much earlier. Promoting a useless discussion is never helpful to the town. It is for these reasons that I believe SagaZ has a very high probability of being mafia, and is worthy of a lynching. July has posted 6 times since the game began (I'm excluding his edit explanation and apology), and he's made a solid point once. Look for yourself: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430766&user=July617The only useful contribution he's made was his response to Odin's confusing RNG plan. At the time Odin's confusing manner of communicating made it seem like the plan was to randomly select someone, lynch them, and call it a day. That ultimately wasn't what Odin was aiming for, but at the time it seemed that way and if July hadn't responded as he did someone else would have. Which brings us to his other 5 posts. They all say essentially the same thing, "I don't want to lynch anyone yet, let's wait and talk more." If everyone was jumping to conclusions in the first four hours istandwithmitt style that might have been fine, but with practically half our time spent he's still waiting for a sign from God (or is it the Godfather?). The only player who has contributed less is Balla24, who hasn't posted at all. Keeping his head this low, and trying to keep people deferring the lynching decision as long as possible, makes it a high probability that July617 is mafia. Until such time as either or both of these individuals has a convincing defense established, it's my preference that we lynch one of them over istandwithmitt, much as it pains me. While I respect and relate to your judgment of istandwithmitt, I think if there's ever a day where we can afford to lynch the weakest town instead of a mafia, it's day 1. If he's mafia at this point, then all is well. If he's town, then I think it's better we get rid of him now rather than let him end up in the final 3 and remain a target of suspicion - in addition to the possibility that his seemingly arbitrary reads could end up being the final deciding vote on who is mafia or not.
On October 16 2013 08:56 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
If the majority really wants to lynch Vonthin over istandwithmitt, I can't really stop it.
I still think istandwithmitt is the better lynch for today though as he is just going to be dead-weight unless he drastically changes his play.
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On October 18 2013 03:00 E00e wrote:
Seuss you said you are somewhat certain that there are 4 non-town players out there but you list only 3 people in your last post as non town.
There are three mafia and one serial killer. That's four.
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If you're on my town list, that doesn't excuse you from interacting. Right now this is a four person show and 10 people are left alive.
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On October 18 2013 10:38 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
i'd like to believe bereft is townie and thus would have more information to work with as compared to seuss. e00e and balla are the two overlaps between their analysis so i'll go with whichever
Why aren't you defending yourself against the accusation that you're the serial killer?
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On October 18 2013 09:51 Bereft wrote:
so just to summarize my comments on balla - i read his comments as a scum slip.
as scum, every single person you are questioning you already KNOW is town or scum. ergo, i think it much easier in this scum mental framework to make the mistake of not thinking twice and prodding the one established townie. it just makes no sense to do this (in the way he does) as town. therefore, for now i'll be voting balla.
##Vote: Balla24
however, if most of you see balla's actions as something reasonable for a townie to do / something you would do yourself, i will reevaluate.
While Balla24 is one of my scum picks right now I'm fairly annoyed that roughly half the town is basically MIA. onlywonderboy, SagaZ, and istandwithmitt haven't posted since this morning, and nyxnyxnyx and July617 have posted all of once or twice.
Whoever is mafia and whoever is town, the town can't survive with so many people absent from the conversation or failing to contribute meaningfully.
Since Balla24 is at least posting I'd rather go after nyxnyxnyx or SagaZ, who either aren't posting or aren't putting much effort in. It's not that I think Balla24 is innocent, but I think we get more out of pressuring other people right now.
##vote nyxnyxnyx
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On October 18 2013 13:02 onlywonderboy wrote:
Damn, I really wish I had more to add (I know people have been calling out my lack of posts), but I'm just not coming up with much. nyx and july still seem scummy (or SK-y) and haven't really defended themselves much so not much has really changed there. Still, even if one of them is mafia, that still leaves two more of them out there.
Everyone seems to think Odin was the mafia kill and playerboy was the SK kill, but I'm not so sure. If the SK goes for Odin (who seems like the obvious mafia target), they are able to put a lot of pressure on july and nyx basically for free. It doesn't matter to him whether or not they are town or mafia, this kill increased suspicion even more and may lead to a lynch. Of course, if either july or nyx are actually mafia, it would make sense for them to kill someone else to take some of the heat away from themselves. Waking up and finding odin dead would certainly hurt this plan.
I think playerboy345 was definitely the SK kill. Unless the mafia figured out he was a cop from his jumping on E00e, they had no reason to kill him. Honestly, I highly doubt they did.
I've explained it before, but killing Odin and Roleblocking Bereft was an extremely strong mafia play. Of the three prominent towns they were the two who potentially had power roles. For all my worries regarding my imminent death, killing me wouldn't have been much better than killing a Vanilla Townie. By targeting Bereft and Odin they potentially locked down our power-roles.
All that said, if you follow your ideas backwards from your conclusions, you should be able to find more to add. I reached my town/mafia/SK reads by starting with an assumption I was 90% sure of and working from there.
Even if you post an unfiltered, stream of consciousness thought process as you analyze it'll be more useful than not posting, even if it doesn't really lead anywhere.
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EPT
