EPTNot to mention, if solstice is mafia, he's GOING TO DIE. We either kill him, or we kill koshi who is a cop, and therefore SOLSTICE DIES.
He CANNOT be the one man team, because his counterclaim ensures his death.
Thug Life Mini Mafia - Page 17
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Not to mention, if solstice is mafia, he's GOING TO DIE. We either kill him, or we kill koshi who is a cop, and therefore SOLSTICE DIES. He CANNOT be the one man team, because his counterclaim ensures his death. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 07 2013 06:48 Koshi wrote: You just said the exact opposite. You just said solstice was the last MCB.This is what I have been saying 24/7. Scumteams are playing immoral. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Koshi says it makes total sense that solstice is the last MCB. Then he notes that he's been saying 24/7 solstice can't be the last MCB. Then he notes that maybe solstice is "yolo-ing it up" and "not thinking about his wincon." | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
But I want you to know that right now I hate you in the face. I think my plan is good. I'm okay working to make it happen. However, do you see how many color tags and bold tags are in that post above? DO YOU SEE THEM? You should just sheep me instead of making me show my work. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 07 2013 07:00 Koshi wrote: Honestly? Because if you're actually a cop I think you have targeted decently but have played this actual game poorly.Like fucking D2 VE tells the entire thread I am cop. VA agrees. Grack agrees. Night 2 I am so obvious cop because I hiro is saving me. On day 3 I claim cop and I tell everybody everything. Night 3 I fucking tell you about shot on Oats which is SUPER FUCKING PRO TOWN. Day 4 everybody his fucking scumread says: "oh hai guis I am cop, Koshi is scum" rest of day 4 ALL YOU FUCKING RETARDS BELIEVE S0LSTICE AND I AM FUCKING SCUM?? REALLLYLYLYLYYLYLYYYY??????? HOW DOES THAT HAPpEN.????????? FFS And you being cop messes with some of my reads on other people. | ||
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austinmcc
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austinmcc
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Gotta think, but that progression is gut townie. Going from "Man nobody will believe him cuz I'm 100% the cop" ---> "Holy shit, why are people believing this stuff!?" feels like a better fit than "lololololol he's the cop and gonna die now" ---> "Holy shit, people are believing him, I've got to salvage this claim pronto!" while being angry. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I maintain that the following rules apply: VA and Pandain cannot be scumbuddies VA cannot be on Palmar's team I need to check filters to add some more rules and reduce the number of options. I'm also a little worried about Koshi claiming cop and almost immediately claiming a town check on rayn if Koshi is scum. It's pure WIFOM, but Koshi KNOWS he's going to get counterclaimed eventually there (or the cop will flip and Koshi will die). rayn and Koshi look buddy buddy, it FEELS scummy, but that would require a scum Koshi who KNEW he would get called out to super buddy a scumbuddy and rely on WIFOMing that relation. Like, if Koshi is scum then rayn looks so scummy but why tie themselves together so strongly? Will do some filters. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 07 2013 07:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah yeah yeah. I just need to complain for a moment before continuing.Showing your work isn't for my benefit friend. You have no idea how much I wish I could just trust you AND trust town to just sheep you if I just trust you. That's too much unnecessary trust. That's the kind of trust scum wants town to give them. Showing your work is for the rest in town who see a counterclaim and thirst for mafia blood. I think it's highly unlikely that s0L is the last Banger regardless of alignment, and he's pretty unanimously the vote leader. You're showing your work to save the town, not to convince me. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 07 2013 07:30 VisceraEyes wrote: Couple things. The landscape has somewhat changed during D4. He's looked reasonable today, and I don't think scum super needs to be reasonable right here given how everything is going. Given that you're townie and I NEED you on board to push something other than a cop lynch, because of how thread is structured right now, I don't have conviction on WoS scum to fight you over that.Austin this is important: why didn't you have a problem with the task involving assuming WoS is town? The two factions also make it difficult to push WoS scum. If solstice is the cop, WoS is town. If koshi is the cop, then koshi and rayn are town, they seem to have no interest in pushing WoS, they seem to HAVE interest in lynching me eventually, so I need to...build consensus on something else before pushing WoS if I still have him on my scumlist. If that makes sense. Either he's town, or town thinks I'm mafia and he's town. For right now, that's NOT the read to push, and I need to find common ground OR bust heads harder, and then solve WoS later (unless he REALLY sticks out as 3rd banger). | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 07 2013 07:59 Koshi wrote: It's RIGHT THERE Ok I got to ask this because I am so pissed about it and I don't even know if it is possible. Can the scumteams win together? Would you allow such monstrosity? Clearly it is not in the rules. And you should let us know when they can change wincon. On September 23 2013 05:38 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: 6 (2x3) Gangsters - win when everyone except their own scumteam is dead (kill other gang) | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 07 2013 08:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Nope. He's either town or looks more town, enough so that I'm not going to spin my wheels RIGHT NOW trying to accuse him of stuff when a townie indicates they consider him town. So you are not trying to solve the game but give out reads that suit you the best? Like, "i can convince people this guy is scum, but not this guy". How does that make any sense? If you think I'm not trying to solve the game, you've not been reading. Hell, if you think I'm not trying to solve the game as either alignment, you've got a bad read on my play. Solving the game only accomplishes my e-peen being longer than VA's. What I need to do within the game itself is WIN it. Not solve it. Nobody cares if I solve it and wave my hands going "Solution here! Solution here!" We can still lose. What I need to do is solve or partially solve the game, but get traction in this game and PROVE that I've solved or partially solved it. Solving without traction doesn't do much. Solving AND traction does. Traction comes from either a slam dunk case, which i DON'T currently have against oats, or from agreement without slam dunk. Right now I need to focus on agreement, because either there are scum that I can get lynched with some agreement OR who cares what I find because I can't get anyone lynched anyway. | ||
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austinmcc
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austinmcc
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On October 07 2013 08:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because I actually do not know right know which of them is mafia. They both have some good points and some bad points.And why is it easier to judge other people and find scum there from people you already know 1/2 is scum of? And, as posted, if we do NOT lynch a cop claimer, either the situation resolves itself tonight (good for us), scum lose a KP (good for us, and back to same situation tomorrow with more information), or we have 1 more protected townie than we otherwise would have. There is no magical terrible apocalypse if we let the two claimers live. All we gotta do is lynch scum. Same as what you tried to do D1, same as what we tried to do D2, same as what we did D3. Same as every day in mafia. I don't see why an 11-man town with 1 confirmed townie and a 1-1 split on two others can't find scum. Take VE out, take Koshi/solstice out. That's 8 peeps, 5/3 town scum. Any townie knows they are town, 4/3 town scum. I'd much rather trust myself to be able to find scum in a 4/3 split even after removing some people that the cops affect than take what I currently consider to be a gamble on koshi/solstice. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 07 2013 08:25 WaveofShadow wrote: Yaya, and you should. The end of that game was the BEST because I actually got to solve the game.How do you keep making that mistake? Also I just realized something. The effort Austin is putting in to solving this game---under any other circumstances would give me a massive extra huge mega fucking Look at my play D1 and D2 in that game. I like playing town. I like the puzzle and trying to solve the game. I was awful in that game as mafia until I got to pretend I was a townie and hunt 3P. My activity ticked up and my play improved the moment I got to do the part of the game I like, trying to solve game. Also...I don't know that how I play scum after claiming scum and thinking the game was over is indicative of my normal scum play  | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
VA cannot be the last MCB. Okay with the Palmar lynch, let it go through ezpz, not on Palmar's team. rayn cannot be the last MCB. snb pushes Palmar hard, Palmar and rayn have a fight over something small. Again, I found Palmar's being very active for that, and very active for discussing his vote, but not active for other stuff to be NAUGHTY. I don't think he fights with a scumbuddy like that and they also have snb push Palmar hard. YES, it would result in a Palmar flip making both his buddies look good, but it's too crucial to why Palmar's activity spikes were scummy for it to also be good scum strat. That's TOO next level. Koshi cannot be the last MCB. Koshi would have fakeclaimed as cop and been cool with the Palmar lynch. He's got no reason to fakeclaim, knowing he'll die, in order to allow a scumbuddy to get lynched. Those three are 100% not the last MCB. Leaving Cheese/Pandain/CR/Oats. Again, WoS is tossed out for now and he's actually town in this world because solstice is town in this world. Anyone take issue with clearing those three people as last MCB in a world where solstice is mafia/in general? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Says he doesn't want to lynch Palmar, because Palmar will get shot as either alignment. On October 02 2013 02:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Feeling rings truish, honest. There were a number of people saying that, "Oh man, if Palmar is scum he'll totally find the other scum team so no worries brah, they'll shoot him!" That's D2. Nah, don't lynch Shaio. I'm more inclined to believe that scum would vote one of the main wagons instead of trying to divert attention onto me. Unless both of his buddies are up for lynch or something. My picture of scum SP is going: "Yeah FT (insert name of other scummy candidate with votes here) is really scummy we should lynch him totes 100%" and put an additional vote on the guy to save himself. Not concrete, but I'd rather lynch Hiro or FT. Palmar seems like he'll get shot regardless of alignment considering there are two scumteams lol. I'll switch to FT for now ----> back after class ##Unvote ##Vote: FirmTofu On October 03 2013 06:36 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: snb flips, cheese drops this. Gut is that the third scum doesn't do this, they have a townie snatch the low-hanging fruit. SnB's flip points to FirmTofu being scum, ezpz. Palmar most certainly isn't in that scumteam cus SnB was going hard for him. I'll vote FT again for great justice. ##Vote: FirmTofu Plus, 5 minutes later we get this: On October 03 2013 06:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: This actually makes it look like cheese is spending time reading through snb associations. Like, at 6:36 he notes that snb was pushing Palmar. 5 minutes later, notes that Pandain was town on snb. Pandain might be scum. Had a townread on SnB, and a townread on me for some unexplained reason. Wouldn't expect town Pandain to give me a townread like that. I think the posts being split shows he was actually working through something, not posting a "Lol I'm mafia let's give out fake reads based on a flip" post. ymmv. Then, when people start talking about vote-swapping, his posts read townie: On October 05 2013 04:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I can phone vote from work. FT should be modkilled. I agree on another lynch: more information for us. If FT does last min vote policy lynch. On October 05 2013 04:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Im not switching to vayne. On October 05 2013 04:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Ehh fuck it just lynch FT. On October 05 2013 04:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Palmars got enough votes. Dont lynch VA. Im fine with palmar if FT is getting modfucked. On October 05 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Says he's okay with a swap. Mentioned earlier in the day that VA probably town. I don't think that he eases into the swap to Palmar like this, just floats along, if he's scum with Palmar. He has the options of: (1) not swapping; or (2) saying he won't swap to Palmar because Palmar will get shot. Instead, he swaps to Palmar.##unvote ##vote: Palmar Ft better die. At the point Cheese STARTS talking about swapping, it's FT 4 / Palmar 5 / VA 3, and cheese is on FT. Stuff happens, VE goes back to FT noting that we don't know a modkill is inc. It's like 5/5 ish or some nonsense? 5/5 looks right. Cheese does NOT have to move his vote, it's 5/5 and if he's buddies with Palmar he can stay on FT no problem. But instead, he moves his vote. And VE moves just afterward. Cheese basically voted to kill Palmar with 1 minute remaining, when he could have stayed on a given scumread in FT. And his vote, but for VE's vote, either got Palmar lynched or broke a tie that would have gone in someone's favor. Without more comment from him, without any fighting of the lynch on Palmar, he's not the last MCB. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 07 2013 08:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: So either Koshi gets shot, making the lynch easy and 100% on scum tomorrow.I want to kill Solstice because that guarantees there will be protection on Koshi the next night. If we do not kill either of them, Koshi will be either shot or there will be no confirmed townies (in case scum leave him alive). Again we are going to be guessing on the next day, even if we lynched scum today. OR We have no confirmed townies and we're back in the same spot. Except we lynched someone and got a flip, and people probably died overnight and we have flips, or scum shoot CR or something and he actually has a vest and wears it and confirms himself or other nonsense. We either have a 100% lynch tomorrow, or a MORE CERTAIN lynch, due to bonus info. And if you think solstice is mafia, either he dies overnight or mafia loses 1 KP to protect him. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
snb never mentions him palmar has a number of mentions. In particular, this exchange: + Show Spoiler + On September 27 2013 18:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah I agree with you palmar. hiro has been not pushing people with questions. The thing is palmar, neither are you. On September 27 2013 18:56 Palmar wrote: I can't tell if you're dumb, lazy or maliciously ignorant Oats, which is it? On September 27 2013 19:29 Oatsmaster wrote: OR CORRECT. HAH. so answer the question. On September 27 2013 20:01 Palmar wrote: Which question? I don't see anything in our recent conversation that suggests you were asking me something? On September 27 2013 20:16 Oatsmaster wrote: Smells like genuine back and forth, imo? There is no question. Good job Palmar. The whole rayn/palmar slapfight was set off in part by rayn's read on oats. Calls oats town for being confrontational/asshole, later notes that oats was passive during palmar/rayn fight night (as a way of saying oats looked scummier, by implication), later later says his read on oats has gotten less townie but still not anywhere near the lynch point. On D3 or whatever, says oats looks townier for actually getting involved during something that day. He's not only fighting with rayn over oats, he's got a read on oats that he puts in thread multiple times, and gives reasons for changes in. Does not FEEL like scumbuddies, based on that. As far as the man himself goes, he basically never mentions snb in any legitimate reason (calls for an RNG lynch on snb at one point). Guh. Just look at oats's actual MENTIONS of palmar. It doesn't fit: On September 27 2013 13:31 Oatsmaster wrote: If WoS gets to insult me, I get to call him out on it. I think yamato's hardheadness and seriousness makes him towny, but there are some things that seem weird to me. BH has been completely useless so null. Whats your read on Palmar? I think he's town myself but he hasnt done much besides joke around and promote RNG. On September 27 2013 14:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Hi yamato. Whats your read on Palmar and why? On September 27 2013 23:17 Oatsmaster wrote: I believe that you are taking those great words out of context. Rayn ok, what makes Palmar scum. On September 29 2013 03:02 Oatsmaster wrote: fuck man rayn, you have to explain Palmar being scum more than you dont like his read on WoS. He's continuously pointing people AT Palmar. He jokes with Palmar. He heavily FOCUSES on Palmar. On D3, oats is the second vote onto Palmar with this: On October 03 2013 14:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Fuck time to look townie and do retarded shit. GUYS LYNCH PALMAR. ##vote Palmar I could basically vote for anyone at this point other than Koshi/Pandain/solstice/WoS And somewhat backs it up, poking around again: On October 03 2013 14:15 Oatsmaster wrote: So WoS/koshi/Pandain/soltice, why not palmar? On October 03 2013 14:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Palmar is scum because his reasoning for not lynching FT was because Rayn was on him. Except that Rayn could be scum and FT could be scum from different scumteams. Thats a horrific reason to not lynch your top scumread. On October 03 2013 14:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Mini =/= large game. Look at the last large game I played, and Ignore day 2. Does day 1 look like town Oats? Also you still havent said why you dont want to lynch Palmar. Then veers onto FT, and starts calling Palmar town out of nowhere: On October 04 2013 14:25 Pandain wrote: Oats I'm noting a lot of contradictions in your play Can you also explain this? On October 04 2013 14:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Palmar is totally town though. Lol you are funny Pandain. First quote, I decided that my feelings were wrong and that Yamato was scum. 2nd and 3rd quote make 0 sense if you are calling me mafia for it. Explain why you think that the 2nd and 3rd quotes are scummy Please Pandain. On October 04 2013 14:38 Oatsmaster wrote: FT might be town but probably is scum. And I dont want to lynch Vayne or Palmar. On October 04 2013 14:47 Oatsmaster wrote: 1. cause its fun 2. Cause its fun Otherwise, I think FT is the most likely to flip scum at this pont in the game. I think Vayne and Palmar are town. On October 04 2013 14:49 Oatsmaster wrote: I think Vayne is playing stupid enough to be town, same with Palmar. Palmar wanting to piss off rayn seems to be a townie thing to do. Lynch was 10/5 5:00 TL time. So while Oats is now off Palmar and calling him town, it's like...13 hours before lynch. He's around just over an hour before lynch, but no posts right around lynch time, so nothing from him regarding the actual voteswitch itself. Conclusions: Oats possible, but I don't like. Very very jokey with Palmar, strongly pushing people to look directly at the Palmar (while calling him townie on D1). If MCBOats wants town cred from pushing people at Palmar, focusing Palmar, then he needs to be SCUMMY on Palmar. Him being townie and pushing people at Palmar will make him look worse. His D3 votes/pushes are odd but not the absolute worst. He's early on Palmar, gets off early for FT, before Palmar really gains traction. Not around at lynch time. It's a flag, being on scum and moving off onto town and suddenly calling your earlier vote town again (town D1 --> scummy --> back to town D3), but, in my mind, it does not outweigh his focus on Palmar early. It appears much more that Palmar, and reading Palmar, was a focal point of Oats's game (if oats is town). Possible, but very unlikely imo. Better fit than koshi/rayn/cheese/va | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 07 2013 09:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Fakeable, yes. If nothing else, it's just a pile of words. It's a fun story to tell about the two of you in QT. Not the EASIEST thing to fake, but easier to fake a summary than real posts. I can also note that I changed some QT posts and deleted some when I posted scum logs in PTP4, and did so on the fly (as did kita, he changed some things), so i HAVE doctored logs before, and it wasn't the hardest thing ever. He's had enough time today to doctor if he wanted to.Aaaanyway. Honestly while I do appreciate the effort being put forth, I still don't think the benefits outweigh the risks in trying to determine the MCB. Especially in a game where so many people are playing so well as both alignments (clearly). Solstice is the safe play here and I WILL be taking it. Now VE said something about homework? I'm supposed to grill people or some shit? I did so much of that to solstice last night and Koshi, well....I don't even know what else to say about him. That massive QT paraphrasing really convinced me. Like...as much effort as it takes to write up something like that, the sheer amount of effort it would take to FABRICATE something like that, make it seem coherent and following conversational directions, input from mods, disagreements.... Like, there is no fucking way in hell Koshi could have faked that. Austin, do you believe something like that is fakeable? Currently I'm back on the Koshi cop and solstice scum side of the fence, between that chunk of stuff, Koshi's finally being angry, and really looking back at some of Koshi's posts. Koshi went ALL OUT claiming, telling people rayn was 100%, couple other things, like...the checks he claims to have made show in HIS posts. With solstice, some of the checks he claims the team made show up in HIRO'S posts. That's important to me because scum, upon seeing Hiro flip, may have tried to look for who he copped. If scum look at Hiro's reads before and after certain nights, they might well pull up posts like "dude scum" --> "no wait, maybe I was wrong, getting a much townier vibe now". There's something to be said for Koshi's support coming from Koshi posts, whereas solstice's support comes, in part, from Hiro's posts, that scum would have been wanting to check out. As far as effort, whatever, this is good. I will probably still try to get people to lynch non-cops. I still think it's best, given that I may be leaning one way but am not sure. Whichever of them is mafia or cop or whatever, still other scum to find. And neither is likely 3rd MCB choice. Honestly, look at the above posts. Look at the rules and then these last few reads. Do you see any likely options other than Pandain or CR (with you as an outside third atm) in Koshi-cop-town, of Pandain or CR in solstice-cop-town? I fully disagree that it's impossible to, at the very least, heavily narrow down who could be the remaining one-man team. | ||
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