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On October 06 2013 08:17 Koshi wrote:
Yeah must mixed things up a bit. Thought he was saving both Palmar and FT quite hard but it was weak on Palmar and strong on FT. But a while back there is a quote Pandain also could lynch palmar.
There is a lot of VA pushing though.
I am needing rayn on this one. Koshi, while Pandain was slightly waffly in that he said he'd lynch Palmar but also wanted to lynch VA instead, he DID do this:On October 05 2013 02:53 Pandain wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Palmar
##Unvote
##Vote VA
There now he should be in the lead
At the time, he thought the unvote/vote would mean Palmar led the tie between FT and Palmar. Effectively, by voting Palmar and unvoting, he was giving Palmar the edge as the lynch stood, while still maintaining his lynch on VA.
I read Pandain's D3 as legitimately wanting to lynch VA over Palmar, and don't think that vote comes from a Palmar scumbuddy.
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On October 06 2013 08:47 VayneAuthority wrote:
except nobody is saying that pandain is a motor city banger so nobody cares about that Koshi's specific mentions of Pandain defending Palmar being one of the things he's thinking about indicates that he's scummy on the Pandain/Palmar interactions.
Which would most likely indicate he was thinking Pandain on Palmar's team.
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On October 06 2013 08:47 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm back and caught up: I was reading while I was out.
I have to go back and look over some stuff though because I couldn't really post and there as some stuff I wanted to point out.
Gimme a few and then we can do question/answer time Austin. Gonna play an lol game or two with a friend, will check in after.
Mainly...I'm not entirely sure, cuz I can't ask you what I ask VE.
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Reach for the moon, Wos (lynching the 3rd banger), and sometimes you'll land amongst the stars (lynching scum even if you don't get the MCB).
I'm not ditching it. You're not magically required to find him, but it sure seems silly not to think about it.
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On October 06 2013 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
I agree with Austin's take - being less inclined to include you Wave as scum, myself. But I'm not sure.
Austin, what makes CC scum to you? In between ROLLING with top udyr.
Limited options + EXPLICITLY that one post I keep quoting.
Scum need mislynches. I thought oats was town. I know a lot of people didn't. But now you KNOW oats is town. Go back to yesterday and read it. You can SEE him being set up as a mislynch. You can smell it, taste it, feel it, see it.
Cheesecake's post was the most offensive of ANY anti-oats post, because it was just pure I WANT TO LYNCH THIS GUY.
If that makes sense, he's not concerned with going through oats's filter and calling oats scum based on x and y but not z, no critical thought, no nothing. It's just going into oats's filter and VOMITING half his posts into a giant list.
Oats too cheery and too playful with Palmar on D1 to be on that team. Cheesecake's post was BUTT because IF oats is town, that's exactly what mafia needs to do. Point to all the times oats utters the word "Palmar", without adding any context, and without realizing that HOLY CRAP THAT'S A LOT OF MENTIONS AND A LOT OF DIRECT ASSOCIATION AND MAYBE THIS IS NOT A TEAM. I think it's low-hanging fruit that, when picked, tastes like poopoo fruit. And cheesecake picked that poopoo fruit and tried to feed it to you. Don't eat the poopoo fruit. Oats probably town, maybe mafia, but overall just not what should happen TOMORROW, and not on Palmar's team. He just grabs "Oats mentions Palmar." Doesn't consider whether that makes Oats town or scum or Palmarbud or anything, he just WANTS Oats to look scummy.
If you look at yesterday, and at the people attacking oats, SOME OF THEM ARE TOWN. But SOME OF THEM ARE MAFIA. Out of every post on oats that I remember, that was the single scummiest post out there.
And again, generic crap like "someone has to be" + "nothing giving me a beefy townread on him"
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On October 06 2013 09:30 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 09:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
You asked if I agreed/disagreed with you that he's scum - I said I agreed with his scumreads with clarification.
Pretty sure I answered your question. Unless there was more? Oh. Weird way of answering it I guess. You don't find it odd in the slightest that Austin answers everything I bring up as long as it has nothing to do with him being scum, in which case he acts as though it didn't exist? You don't find my scenario in which he was trying to set me up for a while plausible? So, here's a thing. s0lstice thinks I'm slimy/used car salesman-y. You think I'm not answering your scumread.
Here's the thing. I haven't had a solid town game in a bit. My townreads on SP/FT/oats ALL being mislynches were correct. I wanted to lynch Palmar yesterday, he was mafia. If s0lstice if mafia (dunno for sure yet), I've been right on all my votes and on identifying mislynch wagons.
How would you feel if a large chunk of your reads, and especially some of your reads on mislynches, had been correct? And you were alive? And you hadn't had a nice solid towngame in a while? AND you felt like the game was nearly solved?
You would feel good. You wouldn't care if someone calls you scum because: (1) you know you're not; (2) you think your scumlist is solid at this point; (3) you don't think you're going to get lynched even if a couple people think you're scum (especially because some of the people pushing you must be scum by elimination, and you think those people will die before you do, making the suspicion on you at least partly scum-pushed); (4) even if you GET mislynched, you played a really good game and your mislynch sort of seals the deal for town, because you have been working from good reads all game, so maybe your lategame reads are good.
As an example of (4), I was looking for people trying to mislynch oats yesterday, because I thought he was town. If you thought he was scum, you may not have been seeing some things in the same light. So because I've been working from a good base (so far), I trust my current reads to be good to sexy, and if I get lynched, there are good to sexy reads for town to follow and trust. So...whether I live or get mislynched, it doesn't matter a BOATLOAD to me. I think town has this game, I think whether I'm alive or dead town has this game, and I think I had a couple days in this game that I can be proud of. I'm just not worried with a scumread on me.
If you found yourself in THAT scenario, the very specific scenario. Would you care if someone was trying to intimate that you were scum? Or could be scum? It's making me a bit obnoxious, because it's gone from having fun and trying to promote good atmosphere with earlier silly posts to now kind of being a little dickish about it, but still in my head promoting a good town atmosphere because I'm town and some of the people I'm being dickish too (VA) are likely mafia.
On October 06 2013 09:40 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh yeah also that reminds me....
I'm not going to use this as something to help me push my case on Austin but that question he asked to mods in thread seemed like a question scum could ask to seem towny.
Jes' sayin'.
Yurp. Because it's a townie thing to want to know! However, it doesn't make me town at all. It's entirely null, cuz either side should be asking that.
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Also someone WILL, and probably SHOULD, go
AMG HE'S RIGHT HE WAS TOWNIE ON SP/FT/OATS AND THEY ALL ENDED UP TOWN. TOO MUCH INFO!
But then I'd have correctly identified them as town, not the other mafia team, and eschewed a number of mislynches. Either I'm a scum giving out townreads on townies, or I'm ACTUALLY having a decent town game and am happy about it.
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On October 06 2013 09:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 09:42 austinmcc wrote:On October 06 2013 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
I agree with Austin's take - being less inclined to include you Wave as scum, myself. But I'm not sure.
Austin, what makes CC scum to you? In between ROLLING with top udyr. Limited options + EXPLICITLY that one post I keep quoting. Scum need mislynches. I thought oats was town. I know a lot of people didn't. But now you KNOW oats is town. Go back to yesterday and read it. You can SEE him being set up as a mislynch. You can smell it, taste it, feel it, see it. Cheesecake's post was the most offensive of ANY anti-oats post, because it was just pure I WANT TO LYNCH THIS GUY. If that makes sense, he's not concerned with going through oats's filter and calling oats scum based on x and y but not z, no critical thought, no nothing. It's just going into oats's filter and VOMITING half his posts into a giant list. Oats too cheery and too playful with Palmar on D1 to be on that team. Cheesecake's post was BUTT because IF oats is town, that's exactly what mafia needs to do. Point to all the times oats utters the word "Palmar", without adding any context, and without realizing that HOLY CRAP THAT'S A LOT OF MENTIONS AND A LOT OF DIRECT ASSOCIATION AND MAYBE THIS IS NOT A TEAM. I think it's low-hanging fruit that, when picked, tastes like poopoo fruit. And cheesecake picked that poopoo fruit and tried to feed it to you. Don't eat the poopoo fruit. Oats probably town, maybe mafia, but overall just not what should happen TOMORROW, and not on Palmar's team. He just grabs "Oats mentions Palmar." Doesn't consider whether that makes Oats town or scum or Palmarbud or anything, he just WANTS Oats to look scummy. If you look at yesterday, and at the people attacking oats, SOME OF THEM ARE TOWN. But SOME OF THEM ARE MAFIA. Out of every post on oats that I remember, that was the single scummiest post out there. And again, generic crap like "someone has to be" + "nothing giving me a beefy townread on him" I agreed with some things CC brought up against Oats (even though I may have brought them up first?). What makes his posting on the matter so much more egregious? I'm curious because much like a lot of the stuff you've posted, I don't quite see the distinction. CC is just piling on. The things he's saying HAVE already been said. They're not ridiculous, people had legitimate reasons to be suspicious of oats.
But...he's not ADDING anything, he's parroting. And he's doing so in a...throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks, manner. That's the MAIN thing. He's just lumping stuff and going SCUMMY SCUMMY SCUMMY without ever analyzing it, breaking stuff down. SOME of those statements about Palmar actually make oats look town, imo. It's not "Every time Oats mentions Palmar it's scummy." That's false. Almost always. He makes no effort at all to sift through and find scummy mentions/townie mentions, or even just scummy mentions. He throws everything into the pot.
Other people had either poop comments "oats is mafia, doing nothing" or ... more well-reasoned suspicions.
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neato. If this is real, that could change some things. Right now we're 7-3-1. If Cheese IS mafia and solstice is bait, could be...
6-3-1 or 7-3.
In the 6-3-1 case, given that we only saw 1 KP last night, we assume SOMEONE used drive by, and there will be 3 KP out there. Scum shoot VE and two people they think don't have vests, take numbers to 3-3-1. Tell the other scummer to let their team win, not town, lynch Koshi 4-3, and win the game.
In the 7-3 case, max of 2 KP. Doesn't make sense.
So...there IS a chance that if this is a ploy and solstice is town, we lynch him and lose IF scum hit unvested targets and avoid the bus? But I think that can only happen if solstice is town and if the other mafia team cooperates.
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On October 06 2013 11:17 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 11:15 austinmcc wrote:
neato. If this is real, that could change some things. Right now we're 7-3-1. If Cheese IS mafia and solstice is bait, could be...
6-3-1 or 7-3.
In the 6-3-1 case, given that we only saw 1 KP last night, we assume SOMEONE used drive by, and there will be 3 KP out there. Scum shoot VE and two people they think don't have vests, take numbers to 3-3-1. Tell the other scummer to let their team win, not town, lynch Koshi 4-3, and win the game.
In the 7-3 case, max of 2 KP. Doesn't make sense.
So...there IS a chance that if this is a ploy and solstice is town, we lynch him and lose IF scum hit unvested targets and avoid the bus? But I think that can only happen if solstice is town and if the other mafia team cooperates. Why would they cooperate if they still have a chance to win on their own? Initiating the contact makes no sense to me in the first place. I don't think that team does. There's a team with ONE dude. At best he can kingmake or something IF we screw up, but I don't think he has a good chance of getting a win unless people let him. Right?
Even 3-3-1. He has to lynch town. 2-3-1. He shoots town or mafia, either, 1-3-1 or 1-2-1. In that case, the other mafia team can lynch him and shoot the townie to win if it's 1-3-1, or can ... force a no lynch, then shoot him while he shoots them, leaving it town vs. (one dude from 3 man team).
He has no chance to win. The other team has as much KP as he does AND they control the lynch. Even if he shoots them, they have even numbers always and can win, barring Koshi not dying and not getting blocked and shooting someone from the 3 man team? And any sort of "townies living" scenario, vests or koshi saves, does NOT help the 1 man scumteam, he's just too far behind.
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Lone dude either loses or helps the other team and still loses. Tell me if you find one that doesn't involve people making stupid decisions, but I do not think that he can actually win.
Unsure if contact makes sense or not. They NEED to work together at this point, to have a CHANCE of winning, but really what they need is just like...one or two mislynches and to NOT lose the one-man scumteam.
If solstice is the one-man team, that would mean that the snb/palmar team shot Hiro (if we assume someone is using mason as a partial KP item, not in liue of ACTUAL KP, at which case it wouldn't make any sense to me to pass on a KP when you need EVERY dead townie you can get). solstice could mason the 3 man team and tell them he's going to help?
If he's 3 man team, they're scouting the one-man team....and I guess they can just go with their scummiest read? To see if he's down to help?
I don't....I don't love this. He gets this PM, knows solstice is mafia, but doesn't post in thread yet because he's trying to bait? But then solstice doesn't respond after a couple hours, so he comes to thread now?
Cheese, why now? Why not continue to the bait?
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On October 06 2013 11:23 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 11:19 austinmcc wrote:On October 06 2013 11:17 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 06 2013 11:15 austinmcc wrote:
neato. If this is real, that could change some things. Right now we're 7-3-1. If Cheese IS mafia and solstice is bait, could be...
6-3-1 or 7-3.
In the 6-3-1 case, given that we only saw 1 KP last night, we assume SOMEONE used drive by, and there will be 3 KP out there. Scum shoot VE and two people they think don't have vests, take numbers to 3-3-1. Tell the other scummer to let their team win, not town, lynch Koshi 4-3, and win the game.
In the 7-3 case, max of 2 KP. Doesn't make sense.
So...there IS a chance that if this is a ploy and solstice is town, we lynch him and lose IF scum hit unvested targets and avoid the bus? But I think that can only happen if solstice is town and if the other mafia team cooperates. Why would they cooperate if they still have a chance to win on their own? Initiating the contact makes no sense to me in the first place. I don't think that team does. There's a team with ONE dude. At best he can kingmake or something IF we screw up, but I don't think he has a good chance of getting a win unless people let him. Right? Even 3-3-1. He has to lynch town. 2-3-1. He shoots town or mafia, either, 1-3-1 or 1-2-1. In that case, the other mafia team can lynch him and shoot the townie to win if it's 1-3-1, or can ... force a no lynch, then shoot him while he shoots them, leaving it town vs. (one dude from 3 man team). He has no chance to win. The other team has as much KP as he does AND they control the lynch. Even if he shoots them, they have even numbers always and can win, barring Koshi not dying and not getting blocked and shooting someone from the 3 man team? And any sort of "townies living" scenario, vests or koshi saves, does NOT help the 1 man scumteam, he's just too far behind. Once again you're assuming that the scumteams have each other figured out in this scenario. I don't know why you make that assumption. I'm assuming that because, even in the BEST CASE SCENARIO for mafia (they know each other with 100% accuracy), the one-man team can't win. A situation with less knowledge is never superior for the one-man team as far as I can tell. So I'm assuming that because with the deck stacked as much as possible towards the 1 man team (the 3 man team knows him 100% and will not shoot him accidentally), he can't win.
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Like, the 3 man team has to shoot townies with 100% accuracy to get control of the lynch. Then they need to never shoot the other guy in order to preserve 2 NKs. And to do that, they have to know who he is. They gotta keep that up until they're in a higher number scenario, one night, and then they run the lynch whether or not the other mafia agrees.
I dunno, the cases in which town loses require nobody having vest. Nobody should give specifics on that probably. But if mafia thinks they're caught 100% dead to rights, or close enough to it that they can't get much in the way of mislynching and MIGHT lose the other team, then this increases their chances to win (an all-in on a fake PM claim).
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On October 06 2013 11:31 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 11:27 austinmcc wrote:On October 06 2013 11:23 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 06 2013 11:19 austinmcc wrote:On October 06 2013 11:17 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 06 2013 11:15 austinmcc wrote:
neato. If this is real, that could change some things. Right now we're 7-3-1. If Cheese IS mafia and solstice is bait, could be...
6-3-1 or 7-3.
In the 6-3-1 case, given that we only saw 1 KP last night, we assume SOMEONE used drive by, and there will be 3 KP out there. Scum shoot VE and two people they think don't have vests, take numbers to 3-3-1. Tell the other scummer to let their team win, not town, lynch Koshi 4-3, and win the game.
In the 7-3 case, max of 2 KP. Doesn't make sense.
So...there IS a chance that if this is a ploy and solstice is town, we lynch him and lose IF scum hit unvested targets and avoid the bus? But I think that can only happen if solstice is town and if the other mafia team cooperates. Why would they cooperate if they still have a chance to win on their own? Initiating the contact makes no sense to me in the first place. I don't think that team does. There's a team with ONE dude. At best he can kingmake or something IF we screw up, but I don't think he has a good chance of getting a win unless people let him. Right? Even 3-3-1. He has to lynch town. 2-3-1. He shoots town or mafia, either, 1-3-1 or 1-2-1. In that case, the other mafia team can lynch him and shoot the townie to win if it's 1-3-1, or can ... force a no lynch, then shoot him while he shoots them, leaving it town vs. (one dude from 3 man team). He has no chance to win. The other team has as much KP as he does AND they control the lynch. Even if he shoots them, they have even numbers always and can win, barring Koshi not dying and not getting blocked and shooting someone from the 3 man team? And any sort of "townies living" scenario, vests or koshi saves, does NOT help the 1 man scumteam, he's just too far behind. Once again you're assuming that the scumteams have each other figured out in this scenario. I don't know why you make that assumption. I'm assuming that because, even in the BEST CASE SCENARIO for mafia (they know each other with 100% accuracy), the one-man team can't win. A situation with less knowledge is never superior for the one-man team as far as I can tell. So I'm assuming that because with the deck stacked as much as possible towards the 1 man team (the 3 man team knows him 100% and will not shoot him accidentally), he can't win. Wat. Why would that be best case scenario for him? Wouldn't best case scenario be to just fucking hide/pretend to be town and hope to outlast the other team so he can actually WIN? Like.....how does your mind work Austin? I really don't get anything you've been saying throughout this entire game. Yeah, but I've been right! Mwahahahahahaha + <3.
He cannot hide/hope to outlast. IF we mislynch, it's 6-3-1. Either scum kill 3 townies with NKs or town still controls the lynch. The 3 man team will not shoot the three man team. The 1 man team can won't shoot himself. So IF no townies survive (please please please?).
So IF mafia get 3 kills, on anyone, no protects or whatever, it's either:
3-3-1
4-2-1
4-3
5-2
In two of those cases, lone dude is dead. In the 3-3-1 he CAN hide, but....hmmmm.
LOOK IT STARTS TO GET REALLY CONVOLUTED AND THERE ARE TOO MANY OPTIONS BUT I DO NOT THINK THAT ONE MAN MAFIA CAN ACTUALLY WIN THIS BECAUSE EITHER TOWN IS WRECKING SCUM OR 3 MAN TEAM IS IN CONTROL OF THE GAME.
WHATEVER, IT'S NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD.
The important thing, to me, is that if mafia is threatened righ tnow, they COULD be going all-in on this, because there are scenarios where they win if vests are gone and they dodge koshi.
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Stuff happened during that post.
I guess we see this solstice post except lolololololol
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Hiro's filter looks WAY more like Koshi cop than solstice cop.
solstice never mentioned, even why I ask him his thoughts on solstice. However, he DOES call SP scum, in part, for calling out Koshi D1 and wanting to RNG lynch him. Somewhat protective of his partner D1 if it's Koshi, never mention even when offered if solstice.
And in his reads Koshi is prob town but solstice not mentioned.
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On October 06 2013 11:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
The real cop would have known hiro was town when hiro was a topic of discussion too. On phone but someone crossreference when I was suspecting hiro loudly. solstice wanted to lynch hiro.On September 30 2013 03:08 s0Lstice wrote:
anyway I'm up to Pandain's entrance into the thread. some town reads so far but no strong scum reads.
hated hiro's entrance but he has since been a lil better as I continued reading. still plugging away+watching football On October 01 2013 00:58 s0Lstice wrote:
right well I'm here, taking me awhile to catch up. I'm about to say fuck it and just start playing from here on (with a helpful summary for pages 40-now from someone) but we'll see how much time I get tonight. I didn't want to say much without having a complete picture of the goings on but if that means I never start talking then it's no good.
from what I've read I don't like hiro, or Oats. Cheesecakes weird pressure vote on Oats bothered me as well.
hiro for his entrance into the thread and early passivity (agree with Palmar's points here).
Oats (at least up to where I stopped) hasn't started tunneling anyone yet, and is doing his 'drop a question into a bucket' thing he does as scum. I saw him engaging with the thread but had trouble figuring out what he was hoping to get from his questions and/or didn't see what he was doing with the answers he got.
There's some rumblings for FT. Nothing struck me as odd about him from what I read. I'll look closer tonight.
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And voted him D2. And asked why he was excluded from Hiro's list postOn October 02 2013 05:16 s0Lstice wrote:I've called you scum like 3 times. It's pretty much the most notable thing I've done, and I'm absent from your list post. Why?
Does not look like bros
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Why not counterclaim / what have you done with your nights / what did hiro do with his nights
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In addition to that:
Why not tell thread at the start of the day that Cheese claimed mafia in PMs?
Why bother asking koshi why he's been kind of a wimpy confirmed townie earlier today?
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EPT
