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On October 07 2013 05:31 VayneAuthority wrote:
this has nothing to do with your scum play though. We are talking about your town play here which you apparently have plenty of experience with...scum slip?
how does this have nothing to do with my scum play if the entire thread thinks I'm scum? There is a basis for comparison and I want people to look. It is possible to distinguish blue from red.
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On October 07 2013 05:32 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 05:30 s0Lstice wrote:
Like, VE, you have a problem with me acting how I did as cop. Being a cop is fucking difficult. The only other time I've been 'blue' is in PTP where everyone was at least a little blue, and I basically got lynched day 1 there. It's just not a skill I have (right now anyway). I'll remind you too that I have NEVER been lynched. The two times where I've been even really close is here and PTP, both of which are related to blueness. This isn't a coincidence. At least do me a favor and go read my lone scum game that I have on my record and compare. It's Basterd Mini Mafia. Then: WHY WOULD YOU HAVE THE CONFIDENCE IN YOURSELF AND YOUR READS ENOUGH TO THINK YOU CAN CATCH THE WHOLE SCUMTEAM?!?! SOLSICE THIS DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE - YOU'RE EXPECTING US TO BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE PLAYING THIS WAY AS A RESULT OF BEING NEWB BUT FOR THE PURPOSE OF DOING NEXT-LEVEL MINDGAMES WITH THE ENTIRE OPPOSING FORCE!!! DO YOU NOT SEE HOW THIS IS A HUGE CONTRADICTION?!
VE, being a nervous and unsure blue does not affect the convictions I have in my own reads. I was convinced CC was scum. This fact remains the same whether I'm green or blue. The distinction is what I do with the blue actions and the blue role in general. These are not mutually exclusive ideas. They run parallel not opposite.
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On October 07 2013 05:35 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 05:32 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 07 2013 05:30 s0Lstice wrote:
Like, VE, you have a problem with me acting how I did as cop. Being a cop is fucking difficult. The only other time I've been 'blue' is in PTP where everyone was at least a little blue, and I basically got lynched day 1 there. It's just not a skill I have (right now anyway). I'll remind you too that I have NEVER been lynched. The two times where I've been even really close is here and PTP, both of which are related to blueness. This isn't a coincidence. At least do me a favor and go read my lone scum game that I have on my record and compare. It's Basterd Mini Mafia. Then: WHY WOULD YOU HAVE THE CONFIDENCE IN YOURSELF AND YOUR READS ENOUGH TO THINK YOU CAN CATCH THE WHOLE SCUMTEAM?!?! SOLSICE THIS DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE - YOU'RE EXPECTING US TO BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE PLAYING THIS WAY AS A RESULT OF BEING NEWB BUT FOR THE PURPOSE OF DOING NEXT-LEVEL MINDGAMES WITH THE ENTIRE OPPOSING FORCE!!! DO YOU NOT SEE HOW THIS IS A HUGE CONTRADICTION?! VE, being a nervous and unsure blue does not affect the convictions I have in my own reads. I was convinced CC was scum. This fact remains the same whether I'm green or blue. The distinction is what I do with the blue actions and the blue role in general. These are not mutually exclusive ideas. They run parallel not opposite.
More on this...it's about people having a problem with what the optimal play was for a cop to do in any of the situations we discussed. My inexperience with blue roles played into me using them in ways that seem odd or stupid to other people, but at the foundation of that is the notion that they were used in such a way as to back up my own reads and convictions...which I would have regardless of being green or blue.
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On October 07 2013 05:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 05:35 s0Lstice wrote:On October 07 2013 05:32 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 07 2013 05:30 s0Lstice wrote:
Like, VE, you have a problem with me acting how I did as cop. Being a cop is fucking difficult. The only other time I've been 'blue' is in PTP where everyone was at least a little blue, and I basically got lynched day 1 there. It's just not a skill I have (right now anyway). I'll remind you too that I have NEVER been lynched. The two times where I've been even really close is here and PTP, both of which are related to blueness. This isn't a coincidence. At least do me a favor and go read my lone scum game that I have on my record and compare. It's Basterd Mini Mafia. Then: WHY WOULD YOU HAVE THE CONFIDENCE IN YOURSELF AND YOUR READS ENOUGH TO THINK YOU CAN CATCH THE WHOLE SCUMTEAM?!?! SOLSICE THIS DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE - YOU'RE EXPECTING US TO BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE PLAYING THIS WAY AS A RESULT OF BEING NEWB BUT FOR THE PURPOSE OF DOING NEXT-LEVEL MINDGAMES WITH THE ENTIRE OPPOSING FORCE!!! DO YOU NOT SEE HOW THIS IS A HUGE CONTRADICTION?! VE, being a nervous and unsure blue does not affect the convictions I have in my own reads. I was convinced CC was scum. This fact remains the same whether I'm green or blue. The distinction is what I do with the blue actions and the blue role in general. These are not mutually exclusive ideas. They run parallel not opposite. So because CC didn't claim scum to you he must be town? Right.
Show me where I say CC is town. If you are going to participate in this discussion, you should at least read the thread.
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i dont even care that you are scum, you get a round of applause Koshi.
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On October 07 2013 09:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
Aaaanyway.
Honestly while I do appreciate the effort being put forth, I still don't think the benefits outweigh the risks in trying to determine the MCB. Especially in a game where so many people are playing so well as both alignments (clearly). Solstice is the safe play here and I WILL be taking it.
Now VE said something about homework? I'm supposed to grill people or some shit? I did so much of that to solstice last night and Koshi, well....I don't even know what else to say about him. That massive QT paraphrasing really convinced me. Like...as much effort as it takes to write up something like that, the sheer amount of effort it would take to FABRICATE something like that, make it seem coherent and following conversational directions, input from mods, disagreements....
Like, there is no fucking way in hell Koshi could have faked that.
Austin, do you believe something like that is fakeable?
It's fakeable. It's not a question of difficulty, just one of effort. Think of the time he'd have to do it.
Anyway though, between scum and townies being adamant about the right course of action, I'm going to have to do some soul searching as to how hard I want to fight this. I've already spent a lot more time than I had to spend defending this. Things look really bleak/near impossible for me to get you guys on the correct lynch here.
Town is in deep shit after my flip and I seem to be powerless to stop it.
As much as I'd enjoy lynching outside of me and Koshi there is no way we are gonna get everyone on the same scumread outside us.
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On October 07 2013 09:27 Pandain wrote:
Do you really think Koshi is the player to do that?
Koshi probably gets town/scum mvp either way anyway, as long as he doesn't ignore my reads and helps lynch town.
As much as Koshi doesn't deserve any compliment from me after telling me to take a dick in my ass...he is not a dumb person by any stretch. Quite the opposite. He doesn't have classicly good mafia skills, but he is pretty fucking good in his own way. I wouldn't put it past him.
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On October 07 2013 09:34 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 09:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
Aaaanyway.
Honestly while I do appreciate the effort being put forth, I still don't think the benefits outweigh the risks in trying to determine the MCB. Especially in a game where so many people are playing so well as both alignments (clearly). Solstice is the safe play here and I WILL be taking it.
Now VE said something about homework? I'm supposed to grill people or some shit? I did so much of that to solstice last night and Koshi, well....I don't even know what else to say about him. That massive QT paraphrasing really convinced me. Like...as much effort as it takes to write up something like that, the sheer amount of effort it would take to FABRICATE something like that, make it seem coherent and following conversational directions, input from mods, disagreements....
Like, there is no fucking way in hell Koshi could have faked that.
Austin, do you believe something like that is fakeable? Fakeable, yes. If nothing else, it's just a pile of words. It's a fun story to tell about the two of you in QT. Not the EASIEST thing to fake, but easier to fake a summary than real posts. I can also note that I changed some QT posts and deleted some when I posted scum logs in PTP4, and did so on the fly (as did kita, he changed some things), so i HAVE doctored logs before, and it wasn't the hardest thing ever. He's had enough time today to doctor if he wanted to. Currently I'm back on the Koshi cop and solstice scum side of the fence, between that chunk of stuff, Koshi's finally being angry, and really looking back at some of Koshi's posts. Koshi went ALL OUT claiming, telling people rayn was 100%, couple other things, like...the checks he claims to have made show in HIS posts. With solstice, some of the checks he claims the team made show up in HIRO'S posts. That's important to me because scum, upon seeing Hiro flip, may have tried to look for who he copped. If scum look at Hiro's reads before and after certain nights, they might well pull up posts like "dude scum" --> "no wait, maybe I was wrong, getting a much townier vibe now". There's something to be said for Koshi's support coming from Koshi posts, whereas solstice's support comes, in part, from Hiro's posts, that scum would have been wanting to check out.
As far as effort, whatever, this is good. I will probably still try to get people to lynch non-cops. I still think it's best, given that I may be leaning one way but am not sure. Whichever of them is mafia or cop or whatever, still other scum to find. And neither is likely 3rd MCB choice. Honestly, look at the above posts. Look at the rules and then these last few reads. Do you see any likely options other than Pandain or CR (with you as an outside third atm) in Koshi-cop-town, of Pandain or CR in solstice-cop-town? I fully disagree that it's impossible to, at the very least, heavily narrow down who could be the remaining one-man team.
On October 07 2013 09:34 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 09:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
Aaaanyway.
Honestly while I do appreciate the effort being put forth, I still don't think the benefits outweigh the risks in trying to determine the MCB. Especially in a game where so many people are playing so well as both alignments (clearly). Solstice is the safe play here and I WILL be taking it.
Now VE said something about homework? I'm supposed to grill people or some shit? I did so much of that to solstice last night and Koshi, well....I don't even know what else to say about him. That massive QT paraphrasing really convinced me. Like...as much effort as it takes to write up something like that, the sheer amount of effort it would take to FABRICATE something like that, make it seem coherent and following conversational directions, input from mods, disagreements....
Like, there is no fucking way in hell Koshi could have faked that.
Austin, do you believe something like that is fakeable? Fakeable, yes. If nothing else, it's just a pile of words. It's a fun story to tell about the two of you in QT. Not the EASIEST thing to fake, but easier to fake a summary than real posts. I can also note that I changed some QT posts and deleted some when I posted scum logs in PTP4, and did so on the fly (as did kita, he changed some things), so i HAVE doctored logs before, and it wasn't the hardest thing ever. He's had enough time today to doctor if he wanted to. Currently I'm back on the Koshi cop and solstice scum side of the fence, between that chunk of stuff, Koshi's finally being angry, and really looking back at some of Koshi's posts. Koshi went ALL OUT claiming, telling people rayn was 100%, couple other things, like...the checks he claims to have made show in HIS posts. With solstice, some of the checks he claims the team made show up in HIRO'S posts. That's important to me because scum, upon seeing Hiro flip, may have tried to look for who he copped. If scum look at Hiro's reads before and after certain nights, they might well pull up posts like "dude scum" --> "no wait, maybe I was wrong, getting a much townier vibe now". There's something to be said for Koshi's support coming from Koshi posts, whereas solstice's support comes, in part, from Hiro's posts, that scum would have been wanting to check out.
As far as effort, whatever, this is good. I will probably still try to get people to lynch non-cops. I still think it's best, given that I may be leaning one way but am not sure. Whichever of them is mafia or cop or whatever, still other scum to find. And neither is likely 3rd MCB choice. Honestly, look at the above posts. Look at the rules and then these last few reads. Do you see any likely options other than Pandain or CR (with you as an outside third atm) in Koshi-cop-town, of Pandain or CR in solstice-cop-town? I fully disagree that it's impossible to, at the very least, heavily narrow down who could be the remaining one-man team.
There's a much more obvious reason for why I was talking about hiro's posts in support of our night actions that you are missing.
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On October 07 2013 09:47 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 09:29 s0Lstice wrote:On October 07 2013 09:27 Pandain wrote:
Do you really think Koshi is the player to do that?
Koshi probably gets town/scum mvp either way anyway, as long as he doesn't ignore my reads and helps lynch town. As much as Koshi doesn't deserve any compliment from me after telling me to take a dick in my ass...he is not a dumb person by any stretch. Quite the opposite. He doesn't have classicly good mafia skills, but he is pretty fucking good in his own way. I wouldn't put it past him. Only around to say that I meant I was bowing down for your applaud and not bowing down so you could put your dick in my ass because it seems like you are trying that. WoS I am in bed and I dnu why. Maybe I am angry your filter is longer than my filter.
Oh I see. Thank you for clarifying that.
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Austin, you have said I'm likely not the last MCB if scum right?
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Ok, but here you say you don't like the s0l+vayne scumteam combos:
On October 07 2013 06:44 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 05:41 VisceraEyes wrote:Okay I'm heading out guys. Austin, homework. Assume that myself, Wave and you are all confirmed town. Come up with scumteams and a lynch target outside the cop claims. Wave: you're on claim-duty. Pressure both claims, and get as much information out of BOTH of them as you can. This will help us out tomorrow IF we decide to leave them until tomorrow. For myself, I'm going to be watching and thinking and considering and I'll post my thoughts on the situation with WELL enough time to swing the lynch if I think that's what we need to do. And Shepherds we shall be For thee, my Lord, for thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand Our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomeni Patri Et Fili Spiritus Sancti. 10-4.
KoshiKoshi as cop confirms Koshi, VE, oats, rayn. In your scenario I am town and WoS is town.
That leaves: Pandain, VA, CR, Cheesecake, solstice.
Within that group, solstice MUST be mafia (claim). 3/4 of Pandain, VA, CR, Cheesecake MUST be mafia. This scumgroup hinges on Cheesecake. He's the one who called out solstice walkie-talkieing him.
1. Koshi and CheesecakeIf he's town, if we think this ISN'T a giant ploy and solstice's team fucked up in thinking CC was scum, then the scum team is Pandain/VA/CR/solstice. Splits in my head are initially solstice/Pandain/VA + CR or solstice/VA/CR + pandain.
1(a). Koshi, Cheesecake, solstice/pandain/VA + CR/Palmar/SnbThis scum team makes no sense. Pandain pushes VA over Palmar on D3. He can take cred saving FT and MAYBE lynching scum in Palmar, without giving up VA. Saving FT + bussing VA is just too much. Moreover, VA is all up in Pandain's butt. Keeps calling Pandain mafia. This scum team is unlikely, as they're just too at each other's throats. Like...SnB pushes Palmar, but not spamming a whole day to get people onto him like Pandain does with VA. That's way way way too much commitment for a bus. 1(b). Koshi, Cheesecake, solstice/CR/Pandain + VA/Palmar/SnbHere, Pandain's D3 push on VA makes more sense. VA can be scum but not on Pandain's team. And Pandain and VA get to be split apart. However, VA didn't seem to care if we lynched Palmar D3. He didn't say much, but he voted Palmar and seemed decently okay with it, never tried to shift the lynch to another target or just stick with FT. Therefore, I do not like this scenario. 1(c). Koshi, Cheesecake, solstice/CR/VA + Pandain/Palmar/SnbIn this situation, VA is actively going after the remaining scum from the other team. Pandain is trying to save FT and lynch VA D3, but gets forced onto Palmar, his scumbuddy. However, VA today is unwilling to accept solstice as possible cop. In this case, VA is CRAZY distancing himself from solstice, even when other options present themselves (lynch koshi, lynch outside the two). I don't love that idea, but it's there. Based on 1(a) giving a really weird Pandain bus on VA and sacrifice of solstice, I hate it. Based on the implications of (b) and the D3 lynch, I dislike it. I really do not see Palmar's teammate being entirely resigned to just let him go, when it was reasonable for people to stay on FT.
2. Koshi and CheesecakeIn this scenario, Cheesecake is outing solstice's PM, but is part of the other mafia team. He just wants solstice lynched, get cred, huzzah huzzah. With solstice and cheesecake scum, we need 2 mafia within CR/VA/Pandain. I would personally argue that Pandain is town here. After yesterday morning, VA calling oats a great bulletproof target and just, in general, spewing nonsense, i do not think he's town. He's also trying to make me (confirmed town in these scenarios) look scummy, and just...he has not made the most sense lately. Like saying he was the clear mislynch for today when: (1) oats was set up yesterday; (2) two other players had more votes than him when he said that. So, no offense, I'm not considering VA town in these scenarios. Pandain or CR is town here.
2(a). Koshi, Cheesecake, PandainIf Cheesecake and solstice were on opposite teams, cheesecake outing solstice is REALLY weird. Too weird. Why not work together and backstab later? Why not at least get more info out of solstice and THEN backstab, letting everyone know he's mafia AND he gave up his team? So I'm assuming cheesecake/solstice same team, and doing this to try to secure someone for later game, a way for scum to "confirm" someone as town by dumping solstice. Cheesecake/Solstice/VA + CR or Cheesecake/Solstice/CR + VABoth VA and CR, whichever is on the solstice-team in Pandain-town world, are dumping solstice, hoping to survive a little bit and live with cheesecake, setting him up to carry it through. In each case, the one-man team is ALSO going after solstice, but doesn't actually KNOW that solstice is mafia. Again though, VA being okay with the Palmar lynch makes the first option more likely than the second. 2(b). Koshi, Cheesecake, CRThe cheesecake/solstice thing still applies. Now you're looking at Cheesecake/Solstice/VA + Pandain or Cheesecake/Solstice/Pandain + VAPandain and VA are split, so that interaction doesn't help make something more likely here. Again, both the scumbuddy and the one-man team are going after solstice, and just solstice. And same thing with disliking VA/Palmar on the same team.
So what does Koshi cop mean? It hinges on Cheesecake. IF you think he's Cheesecake, then the remaining mafia MUST be Solstice, Pandain, VA, and CR. And the likely setup is 1(c), with Pandain being the last MCB. IF you think he's Cheesecake, then the remaining mafia are 2/3 of Pandain, VA, and CR. The scumteams I see being most likely there are Cheesecake/Solstice/VA + CR or Cheesecake/Solstice/VA + PandainIN THE KOSHI SCENARIOS, PANDAIN OR CR IS THE LAST MCB. IF YOU THINK CHEESECAKE, THEN THE LAST MCB IS PANDAINOkay. I need a moment. Going to post out the other options. Then gonna start really digging, because we can eliminate SOME options based on posts, just gotta look.
Yet you still say VA is 100% scum and not MCB, and are leaning on the me being scum side of things. Can you clarify?
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On October 07 2013 10:18 austinmcc wrote:
I don't love VA + solstice same team. Just read it, that's based on how VA would be letting you go today with no attempt whatsoever to save. gg solstice, no re.
So nope, I don't like that. And yes, you guys would be on the same team if you're scum.
Me not liking him cutting bait so hard if you're both together isn't nearly as powerful as some of the other assumptions I'm working under --> neither of you can be MCB to me. For you it's suicide to claim cop as MCB. For him, he does nothing at all to even hint at saving Palmar.
If you're scum, you're same team. Nope, don't love it. But look at the conclusions I draw above. Each of my teams has you guys together. I don't have to love it, but if you're scum and I'm right on him, he IS just distancing, and decided that there's no hope of saving you.
So by that logic there are two people in thread who are trying to save me right now? Who are they?
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On October 07 2013 10:33 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 10:26 s0Lstice wrote:On October 07 2013 10:18 austinmcc wrote:
I don't love VA + solstice same team. Just read it, that's based on how VA would be letting you go today with no attempt whatsoever to save. gg solstice, no re.
So nope, I don't like that. And yes, you guys would be on the same team if you're scum.
Me not liking him cutting bait so hard if you're both together isn't nearly as powerful as some of the other assumptions I'm working under --> neither of you can be MCB to me. For you it's suicide to claim cop as MCB. For him, he does nothing at all to even hint at saving Palmar.
If you're scum, you're same team. Nope, don't love it. But look at the conclusions I draw above. Each of my teams has you guys together. I don't have to love it, but if you're scum and I'm right on him, he IS just distancing, and decided that there's no hope of saving you.
So by that logic there are two people in thread who are trying to save me right now? Who are they? Read the post. By that logic, scum would be trying to save you. Yes. But VE's not mafia, I'm not mafia, WoS is possibly mafia, but frankly nobody else is really trying, just possibly interested. Except...post. Yes, by that logic, people would be trying to save you. But in the end, I conclude the likely scumteams if you're scum all contain you + VA. Not that my conclusions are wrong, or that you're town, but that scum just isn't trying to save you, and ultimately VA COULD be on your team. That it's more likely than alternatives.
So despite the fact that your own presented evidence does not very well support the idea of me and Vayne being on the same team, you still conclude that we are in the end because its the least shitty of shitty options.
Yet over here ----> (+ Show Spoiler +hi im s0Lstice and I am the mother fucking cop
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fuck this mountain, seriously
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dear Oats
I'm going to suspend my beliefs for a moment.
Your main problem with my claim is that it doesn't check out emotionally. Like, I haven't been mad or bouncing off the walls? Do I have this correct?
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On October 07 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dreamt that you flipped scum so I think my vote is gonna stay on you
I dreamed that I owned a dinosaur ranch and rode the triceratops. I woke up with zero dinosaurs.
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On October 07 2013 11:07 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 10:57 s0Lstice wrote:
dear Oats
I'm going to suspend my beliefs for a moment.
Your main problem with my claim is that it doesn't check out emotionally. Like, I haven't been mad or bouncing off the walls? Do I have this correct? And that koshi's claim makes far more sense balance-wise and the way he has been behaving. You better take a trip to Jurassic Park s0lstice, I heard they had these cool eggs and shit. YOU MIGHT GET TO TAKE HOME YOUR VERY OWN DINOSAUR!!!!
Can you be more specific?
About the first. I know a lot about dinosaurs so skip that.
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On October 07 2013 11:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
Well, Hiro and Koshi makes way more sense to me than RoL and Hiro.
Also RoL didnt even play the game, I wouldve thought he would be more excited with a blue role.
Koshi has been cop-like and you havent.
I dunno how to explain the behavior thing, it makes sense to me though.
RoL said it was about the current very spammy metagame we have here on TL. He loses motivation to keep up, regardless of alignment.
What do you think about Koshi doing like nothing at all with the town cred, even after being outed? His effort has been 'X is scum the end.' Or, 'I don't really have any scumreads tbh.' This makes you not at all nervous that he has basically been coasting?
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EPT
