EPTAnother person banned in the ban list thread.
TL Mafia Ban List 2.0 - Page 56
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Message GMarshal if you request a ban please ^_^ Also when the game you're sitting out is over! ~GMarshal | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9857 Posts
Another person banned in the ban list thread. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I guess it depends on the lengths we are willing to go to in this game. Do we want this to be jolly good fun, or do we want this to be a Game of Thrones setting? Do we only allow normal lies and normal play, or do we also allow psychological manipulation against the manipulated's volition? How do we want our mafia games to be played? How do we want our community to play theses games? For example, imagine player A had a sister that died in the Holocaust. Should player B, who is scum, be able to make an appeal to player A like "I am not scum A, you know your sister would think the same if she were with us! Player C is Hitler!" (granted this is a stupid example)? If he can't, should player B be able to make said appeal if he's town instead? This is an extreme example since it's obviously aimed at player A and his experiences, but similar appeals could be made that are subtler. At what point do you draw a line? The simplest way to solve it is if nobody did it, as either town nor scum. If you are town and you have that kind of stuff you want to say in the thread to "help" your cause, just don't. If you are scum and can "fake" or manipulate someone in such a way, that you know will help you win tremendously, but would be seen as an "unethical" kind of manipulation, just don't. Nobody should force anybody to do anything, nor force bans on stuff like "I swear by my life", etc. We just make a silent agreement to not do this kind of stuff voluntarily. If it slips or happens every once in a while, well, tough luck. But in general, it would be better to avoid this kind of tactics I believe, so it maximizes the fun of all players, and not just the one that uses said tactic to try and win the game. 'Nother example. If you are playing football, and you are going to score and are 1on1 with the keeper, and you are falling, do you try and take a dive so the ref gives you a penalty? If you do so convincingly, then you can get the penalty. If the ref notices it, at worst you get a yellow card. Based on the rules, this is allowed, and in this specific situation it would be your best bet to win the game (since you are falling and won't be able to score otherwise). Should you dive or should you not? Similarly, if you are scum in a game, and are falling (getting lynched, whatever), you can try and take a dive (make an appeal to townies). You know that if the ref notices it (townies figure out you are bullshiting), you'll get a yellow card (get lynched), but if the ref misses it (townies fall for it), you'll get the penalty and score (avoid lynch). Now, this behaviour is not "allowed", and it is the ref's job to notice this kind of things (townies should notice when scum is bullshiting with such kind of appeals), yet it is possible for the ref to miss it, making it a viable tactic for a player to use to try and win their game. But should that player use said tactic or not? More importantly, is this analogy correct or not? If it is, then what does it make you think about this kind of behaviour in games? If it is not...then GG I guess I'm stupid. Did you watch the Barcelona match yesterday? LOL. Also damn Liverpool can win the Premier League, this seemed so fucking unexpected half a season before. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
Hitler Holocaust and your sister. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18485 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18485 Posts
On April 14 2014 07:25 Blazinghand wrote: I personally make the opposite agreement. I non-silently, loudly agree to voluntarily, regardless of alignment, do anything within the rules of the game to win that I think will work. I will post photoshopped pictures of plane tickets, I will lie about how long my dinner lasts, I'll talk about how I just got dumped by my gf and feeling depressed. As long as the hosts allow it, I will do it, if it gives my side a better chance to win. No matter what. I think we have found the Luis Suarez of TL Mafia! | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On April 14 2014 07:26 Acrofales wrote: I think we have found the Luis Suarez of TL Mafia! Are you calling me a diver? E: according to wikipedia he gets tons of cards too. what a hero | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
> : ( It's the fault of those damn ManUdt supporting journalists that bend the truth to hurt my poor Luisito! ;_; | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
So BH, imagine you are scum getting lynched, and to avoid suspicion you have to come up with a story about how you were cooking porkchops the entire time. At what lengths would you go to make us believe that story? How would you crack the porkchop defense? (hint I'm hungry) Anyways, how about this: We all agree to silently abide by that rule (don't do weird "unethical" mafia plays). Yet, if you don't believe in those rules, and believe you should be able to use those tactics in games, then you should be like BH and tell everybody that you will use those tactics at any time you see fit clear and loudly, so we all know about it. Thus, if we find BH or some dude that did the above doing weird mafia plays, we'll know and can prepare (and either believe him or not). But if some other random dude does it, we assume he agreed with the silent treaty from above, so this must be an exceptional case, and not him doing this voluntarily to fuck us up. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
This is what I'm talking about. You don't fuck up with porkchops, not in real life, not in mafia. This is srs bsness | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
On April 14 2014 08:10 Blazinghand wrote: If I had to make up a porkchop defense, I'd post screenshots of the pork chops so that peopel would believe me. If someone tried to use that defense on me I'd just ignore them and lynch them. My very first posts in my first game were highlighting the epic lampshade of this Blazinghand  Blazinghand | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On April 14 2014 07:25 Blazinghand wrote: I personally make the opposite agreement. I non-silently, loudly agree to voluntarily, regardless of alignment, do anything within the rules of the game to win that I think will work. I will post photoshopped pictures of plane tickets, I will lie about how long my dinner lasts, I'll talk about how I just got dumped by my gf and feeling depressed. As long as the hosts allow it, I will do it, if it gives my side a better chance to win. No matter what. Well apparently you will lie in the ban list thread.... to further your future potential scummy agenda? From my observation, there is rather large pool of things you do NOT do as town. I have never seen you make comparison between a players posting style and Idi Amin. While your play in LX as town was out in direction 'X' as town,(unlike how you have often played since) you did have a cop red check you were pushing.+ Show Spoiler [Edit(errata)] + Errata/Clarification: hence there are actually lots of things you wont do to win as scum, because they would get you lynched as you don't do them as town either. Basically if everyone played like BH it would be: A/ boring(just as if everyone played the same as anyone) B/ pretty much no one would be complaining about anything except perhaps on occasion an air of IDGAF as town, or a wagon of false justice when you have an inaccurate red check. It is the list of thing you usually do not do as town that I suspect Gonzaw referred to. No one is asking you to play like your maiden aunt would. As you understand the value of getting other players sheep your play as town, indeed leading wagon and getting other people to vote for it is the essence of town. The alternative of throwing enough unpleasant emotive shit around that everyone feels they need gumboots to even read the thread. I too, in order to win, will do anything that I will do as town as scum. (Its the much larger list of things other people do as town that I wouldn't want to do as as scum) If there were appeals I could make as town that I'd feel too bad to make as scum,... they would be towny seals by another name. When I played in LIX I was scum, the list of things I didnt(and wouldnt) do the day i was lynched as scum is now on the list of things I also wont do as town. (Lie about my RL sleep patterns is one. I woke up when I said I did in that game.) The only reason I don't post fake pictures about my dinner, (because that is really such a convincing argument as exemplified by all the times BH did it and it swayed the thread.) is because RL due to my TZ does in fact impact my ability to play the game and it would make the game lot less fun for me if i had to be sure to able to reschedule all my sleep patterns so it wouldn't. Hence I don't lie about sleeping not because I think no one else should either but because it makes the game less fun for me. So I don't put on an unatural act about RL impacting on my game, but I also post about it(RL as scum) as scum.(I don't like getting lynched for no good 'mafia related reason' as town or scum, so as both I truthfully speak up if "I was recently asleep you twits." ) That the game has rich variety of 'metas' where I wont lie about my sleep but BH has zero qualms lying about his dinner is not for me any problem at all. That adds richness variety and (mild) spice to the game. It also needs some chilli peppers and curry. I am pretty sure no one ever found playing game where BH has pictures of his dinner unpleasant, now if you had claimed to be eating Brussel sprouts then that would have been different. Indeed if you want to draw line on behaviour it really ought be on what acceptable, (not unfun for others) that people do as town. Scum get to do all that, its kind of the point, so what you wont do as scum is not question for me, its what you wont [*or dont*] do as town. TLDR: Idi amin, maiden aunt, sheep, gum boots, unatural act. + Show Spoiler + while matching a TLDR that has Hitler in it is hard, but I tried, I included sheep and unatural act. BTW oops I think I did post fake pictures of BHs dinner and claimed it as mine (or something like that) when I was scum. My bad. Apparently its sleep i wont lie about. Sleep is important and not to be trifled with. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On April 14 2014 10:56 DarthPunk wrote: Just use common sense. If you start getting mad take a break. Ez. It worked for you, when you started taking the game too seriously. If I ever get angry (and stay that way) about the game I am sure I will take a break for a while, and yes that is ez. However (so as to not just sweep what I don't like under the carpet) Arranging things so fewer people have to take shorter breaks less often is not so ez. (esp the ones that take permanent breaks.) Also that not the only reason people take breaks sometimes permanent ones.. If anything my biggest problem is people who don't seem to know when _they_ ought take a break. Reading their bile and drivel (they post as town, and then having to decide, yep all that bleh... its a towny having an extended hissy fit instead of taking a break.) in the thread is not actually what I call fun. I am not angry, that is not fun. In say LVIII scum stomped town, and lots of the "blame" for the crap in the thread came from, was enhanced by or the flames were fanned by scum.... bravo... They (as is their job) very effectively exploited the recent towny paradigm of shitting up threads as town, they did it as scum and got away with it. As I recall they shitted it up so much Marv raged out, and if a guy as successful as Marv can be raged out of game, then we are not talking small amounts of shitting up the thread being mistaken as plausible town play... Trouble is when town not scum regularly behaves in such way that so many people take breaks you get lonely. Then its not ez. If you are perfectly happy with how many people currently 'flip the game the finger and find they have better ways to spend their life' then its still easy I suppose. There will always be a never ending stream of newbies to haze I suppose. I am not angry. I have not read a game of mafia for a while where I thought "hey yeah, I really wish was in that game, this thread is so much fun to read I just want to be part of the fun....." usually I just think OMG I am glad I don't actually have to read that guys posts and decide if he really is (in RL) that X,Y,or Z, or is he faking being like that as scum to shit it up, or is he some deluded towny who thinks faking being like that is helping town. That probably goes double for the last champions game... where they lynched my strongest town read... ( i was actually rather relieved when I found at least some of the people, lynching my best town read, for BS, were scum, its their job. If they'd all been town, I might have been angry for a little while.) TLDR: game bleh, hissy fit, not angry, just not fun. BS. | ||
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