TL Mafia Ban List 2.0 - Page 57

On April 14 2014 07:56 gonzaw wrote:
Well BH, I guess you are the exception then. But at least we know we can ignore you if you do that kind of stuff, but we don't know if we should ignore it or not when random dude X does it.

So BH, imagine you are scum getting lynched, and to avoid suspicion you have to come up with a story about how you were cooking porkchops the entire time. At what lengths would you go to make us believe that story? How would you crack the porkchop defense?
(hint I'm hungry)


Anyways, how about this:
We all agree to silently abide by that rule (don't do weird "unethical" mafia plays). Yet, if you don't believe in those rules, and believe you should be able to use those tactics in games, then you should be like BH and tell everybody that you will use those tactics at any time you see fit clear and loudly, so we all know about it.

On April 14 2014 13:55 DarthPunk wrote:
But it is my belief that the game is the way it is by it's very nature. The meta on TL has caused mafia to be played at a very high level, much higher than on various other sites I have played on and what we are discovering is the natural progression of the game of mafia.

On April 14 2014 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:


In the recent game of champions, large swathes of champions all knew the way they played mafia on their site was best... or claimed to. (as some part of some high level tactic where townies pissing everyone else resulted in scum stomping them ....)

Not sure Id characterise a number of the games on TL of late as 'very high level'.

perhaps I am just stupid and dont even understand the game you guys are playing.

On April 14 2014 14:24 DarthPunk wrote:


I've played and read games on several other sites. I don't think it's close.

On April 14 2014 14:57 Blazinghand wrote:
I really don't care where we discuss it, but GM's life is bad enough without seeing the ban list thread blow up with like 80 posts, get a migraine headache from impending drama, only to find we're discussing something else.

On April 15 2014 11:53 gonzaw wrote:
DarthPunk, I'd say prphlz =/= all of TL Mafia

I agree, this is cheating, both from Fool and Toad and marv.
Should this go back to the Ban thread? Anyways, I guess bans are in place in this case. More info from every party should be posted in that thread.
Do you have more PMs from marv rayn? From those other games? From that IRC topic you posted it wasn't that clear what marv's intentions were (though it was still cheating)


From what I gather, this is what happened:

Toad & Foo: Either nobody noticed it, or people noticed it and nobody paid attention. Rayn did pay attention, but apparently never said anything until now? If you haven't talked about this before rayn, then your rage at "TL Mafia not caring" is unfounded, in the sense that....well, if the community doesn't know what is happening, then how can they do anything about it? (for instance I didn't play nor read Dr Who 2 so I have no idea what happened there).
Still, the fact that nobody noticed that breach of the rules, not even hosts or co-hosts, does indicate some kind of apathy for that kind of cheating. Either nobody really cared about it since it wasn't that much of a deal (until now), thus they were like "desentisized" to it in a way, or maybe it's like you said, and "some people are beyond the rules". Either way, I don't think it's a 9/11 conspiracy, rather than a general attitude in the community that needs to be addressed and made clear (that it is in fact cheating and such situations should be noticed, notified, and dealt with accordingly)

marv: Did you mention this before at any time as well? Because it seems that you haven't posted the PMs and chat with marv until now. If so, well, you could have posted something before getting all hulk on us
Make a clear statement about exactly what marv posted every time, with a transcript of the PMs. The PMs are important too, because we can't know if marv was the only infractor here, "telling" you who to lynch, or if it was a back and forth like the case with Foo and Toad (in which case you are to blame as well rayn). We need more info, and more chiming in from other people and discuss and shit.

On April 15 2014 12:07 DarthPunk wrote:
I thought it was common knowledge that discussing the game with people not in the game/ in the obs qt was cheating.

I felt that it was borderline ok to talk about stuff not directly about the game.

Such as: Oh it was really fun playing with you, why do people always think I am scummy.

But talking about or directing lynches when you have access to the obs qt is fucking cheating.

On April 15 2014 11:43 DarthPunk wrote:
He had information outside of the game, and then spoke outside of the game with someone and told them who to lynch.

Cheating. 100%

He is not in the game. He should not provide reads. He had fucking heaps of additional information revealed due to having obs qt and god knows who else he spoke to.

Anyways, I think I kind of get rayn's frustration.

Dunno how we should proceed with this though. Waiting for stuff to happen is the safest option. But well...if nobody shows up then like...nothing will happen.

Either way, bans seem appropriate for these situations. Still we need some more general awareness of these issues, so it's not just a "ban dude, forget about it" situation, if not it'll keep happening.
This specific rule is indeed "unenforceable", and it's harder for stuff like this to surface. We need to increase awareness to:
1)Any time you talk with someone outside the game, pay attention to this kind of stuff. Don't spout anything that comes from your mouth just because, which may mean you'll talk sensitive info of the game with that someone else. Talk responsibly
2)It should be imperative to report any kind of these issues as well. Hopefully, just by making people aware of (1) would be enough for people to not do it, and hopefully people are good enough people to not purposefully cheat even when they know (1). Still, people should keep an eye out for this stuff. If someone is trying to tell you something about the game, first of all tell him to shut up about ongoing games (this would deter some people from randomly talking about games). If he still presses on, then it becomes clear it's purposeful so it should be noted in the Ban thread to be dealt with.

Still, these are just ideas I have, we can handle it better I suppose.