EPTThought there are extremes, and middles. One thing is casually talking about Mafia, and stuff about the game being slipped without much awareness about it. Another thing is harassing someone telling him all the info you have (from outside the game) telling him what to do. Other stuff comes in the middle. All of these are "cheating" though (the 1st one isn't "so bad", but people should be aware when such a situation can happen to prevent such kind of "slipping")
TL Mafia Ban List 2.0 - Page 58
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Message GMarshal if you request a ban please ^_^ Also when the game you're sitting out is over! ~GMarshal | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Thought there are extremes, and middles. One thing is casually talking about Mafia, and stuff about the game being slipped without much awareness about it. Another thing is harassing someone telling him all the info you have (from outside the game) telling him what to do. Other stuff comes in the middle. All of these are "cheating" though (the 1st one isn't "so bad", but people should be aware when such a situation can happen to prevent such kind of "slipping") | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
Regardless, some of you seem to take this game a bit too seriously. Discussing your read with a friend (who isn't reading obs or discussing the game with anyone else) isn't going to ruin the game for anyone, as long as it's still you playing the game and no one else is essentially dictating what you do. Games are won through effort and an observer casually reading something is unlikely to have any meaningful impact on the game. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
On April 15 2014 13:06 syllogism wrote: Although you can reasonably interpret that rule to mean that there is to be no outside discussion whatsoever, it hasn't traditionally meant that you can not casually discuss your reads with someone outside the game, as long as this person does not have access to any additional information. Newbie games even essentially teach players that it's fine to have outsiders coaching you and these coaches do have access to additional information. From my experience this is how other mafia forums view the issue as well. Regardless, some of you seem to take this game a bit too seriously. Discussing your read with a friend (who isn't reading obs or discussing the game with anyone else) isn't going to ruin the game for anyone, as long as it's still you playing the game and no one else is essentially dictating what you do. Games are won through effort and an observer casually reading something is unlikely to have any meaningful impact on the game. Marv DID have access to the obs qt. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
I meant to post this in the other thread as it was intended to be my general perspective on the issue rather than something pertaining to any specific conduct. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
On April 15 2014 13:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: why does it even matter if one has access to obs QT or not? Hosts often slip or outright state alignments. Dead scum use obs and give a heap of outside information. I think it is wrong regardless but having OBs and doing it is worse. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
It's not bad to ttell someone "my reads are this and that" if you play, if a non-player says "my reads are this and that" it's cheating. easy. fucking logic, mafia players should know that. why is this so hard? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 15 2014 13:22 gonzaw wrote: Well, if that "casual reader", happens to be a great player and has correct reads which he informs you about, what happens then? It may not matter when the dude doing the discussion is scum (since he already has all the "info" basically), but when he's town, I dunno, stuff can change. It depends on the situation I guess, but better to try and avoid getting into such situations in the first place. There may be times where it might be hard to ignore, like if your mom comes passing by and tells you "Pff, WoS is obviously scum son!" or something, but for the rest of the "common" situations (between players of this very forum), this kind of talk can be avoided. I feel the thing with coaching is different. Hell, even coaches themselves never (or they shouldn't), give you reads themselves, or point you where to find info to lynch a dude or something. Coaches give you advice on how to play, give you feedback on your play, etc. I think it's different from what rayn and co are talking about. I don't think people talking general strategy and how to improve their play outside of games (even if they are playing in one of those), is bad. We can't put people that are playing a game inside a bunker and forbid them from any interaction with society. But the discussions are different. Discussing how to improve/General strategy talk =/= Give specific reads on the specific game you are playing. Even then, unless you are a coach, you don't talk too much about the 1st one. Damn I'll get some sleep, this parallel thread thing is confusing me lol | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Actually saying in-thread that another specific player has been reading and agrees with you (even if you don't post direct conversations) is not ok. It's the same reason why newbie games don't allow you to talk about your interactions with coaches - it gives indications to your alignment that have nothing to do with what's going on in the thread. I would like to hear specifics about what exactly marvellosity has been doing, as that sounds much worse. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 15 2014 13:43 DarthPunk wrote: This breakout discussion thread is the worst. We now have the same discussion in two threads and have to fucking cross post things. Yeah, we should stop posting here and post in the Ban thread instead. That way -> | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
On April 15 2014 13:48 gonzaw wrote: Yeah, we should stop posting here and post in the Ban thread instead. That way -> So confused. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On April 15 2014 12:37 prplhz wrote: There's also been some talk about Foolishness threatening to request a permanent ban on raynpelikoneet. Again, I think the proper response to this would be to laugh in his face but apparently it's an issue. I don't think anything of it other than it's pretty poor style from Foolishness, especially since, as far as I understand, it was about an ongoing game. So in conclusion what I propose is: nothing. Rayn was posting in multiple games calling people obscenities that were unwarranted and that violates posting rules on TeamLiquid. I sent him a PM telling him to stop because if he didn't he would get permabanned. I can point to multiple players over the years that have exhibited similar behavior that got perma-banned (just read the old ban list if you don't believe me). I didn't want that to happen to him, which is why I told him to stop. There's nothing to read into, other than Rayn is likely upset over something so he's blowing every little thing out of the water. That's what people tend to do when they're angry and there's internet anonymity at their fingertips. All it takes is one or two people to report one of his posts and *blip* he's gone. I wasn't going to do that like he's subtly implying in some of his posts in this and the other thread. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
no love. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Bottom line, I don't think foolishness and toad having a casual chat on the road is banworthy. Feel free to argue about this, but there's never been a rule against private coaching, and I was pretty sure everyone was aware that its a thing many players use to improve. On April 15 2014 15:31 Oatsmaster wrote: Nah havent seen it happen in over a year if you domt count Cora reporting someone Reports happen all the time. You guys are just lucky I told kadaver to pass on any that need attention to me. That doesn't mean that an egregious offense isn't going to get instantly moderated if it crosses certain lines, so what foolishness is saying is right. | ||
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